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Israel Sacrificing of The Red Heifer

1st. century mark ?
Read the last few trades. More off topic content is being interjected to avoid addressing the op-relevant dissent indicating these red heifers are nothing more than speculative nonsense.
 
Read the last few trades. More off topic content is being interjected to avoid addressing the op-relevant dissent indicating these red heifers are nothing more than speculative nonsense.
Yes, no sign were given to wonder after. Natural unconverted mankind that does not believe in a invisible Creator. They seek after one seen as if God was dying mankind . Believers have prophecy it reveals the mysteries of faith (the unseen eternal things of God )
 
Christianity is not astrology

Isaiah 47:13 Thou art wearied in the multitude of thy counsels. Let now the astrologers, the stargazers, the monthly prognosticators, stand up, and save thee from these things that shall come upon thee

No signs were given to wonder after. Jesus said it a evil generation natural born unredeemed that do seek signs .

Believer have prophecy till the end of time

Satan the king of lying sign to wonder after is still with all power free to deceive the unredeemed he has a new one every day .His signature work

2 Thessalonians 2:9Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
You are the one assuming things are "astrology". God says He made the sun and moon for signs. And the Eclipse Event Signs go throughout all history and very clear to those who research this.
 
Read the last few trades. More off topic content is being interjected to avoid addressing the op-relevant dissent indicating these red heifers are nothing more than speculative nonsense.
You have the speculative nonsense. How about actually READING the Bible before spouting your inane nonsense.
 
What's the subject of this op?
I can always tell when your stuck....You try to deflect and go back to the beginning instead of replying to where the conversation has went to.

Keep in mind...NO red heifer = no temple.
 
?????? Like Matty, MARK, Lukey and Johnny?
Like I said, ya gotta stick an emoji in there if you want folks to know there's a joke in there
 
Ok children...are you done fighting?

So...is "Israel...Jews...Judaizers...law keepers...whoever" going to "build a temple" and reinstitute "animal blood sacrifices" and the "Levitical priesthood" or not? I really don't care...however for those who do...???

If they do...would they not be doing so...in the complete rejection of the Lord Yahshua Christ...who is the eternal "Royal Priest"...who's already offered and had accepted by God...the "only perfect blood sacrifice?"

Additionally...with the "Body of Christ" on the earth and in heaven already...as the "living temple of God" whose Royal Priest is its "Head"...wouldn't another physical temple which would never be in habited by the Holy Spirit of the Living God anyways...be equally as futile and rejecting as another "animal blood sacrifice?"

Ok so...perhaps all of this actually happens..."what does it really mean?"

Tatwo...:)
 
Ok so...perhaps all of this actually happens..."what does it really mean?"
Nothing eschatological. Eschatologically speaking, it means nothing.


And anyone who's ever engaged a modern futurist on this sort of topic having to go through the same kind of inanity that has occurred here (resistance to reason, eisegetic manipulation of scripture, chronic attempts to change the subject or shift the onus, etc.) so, no, none of us are done fighting. The more you engage them, the more they'll fight you, too.

There may be other meaning(s) associated with red heifers, consecration rituals and new temples but, as you can see, none of the modern futurists currently present can form a cogent and coherent response. They are invited to do so by both of us. More than once. Which means the question you are now asking has been answered. They do not know. This particular board is the End Times and Prophecy board. It's not the Dispensationalism Outside of Eschatology board. Modern futurists post these ops in this board because they prima facie believe these things are eschatologically relevant. They are not used to others wondering what it is in heaven and earth they are thinking. Or at least they are not used to it in any way other than fighting about it. The reason your original question was not answered directly and immediately after it was asked is either because they do not know, or they do not want to have that conversation. You asked your question a week ago and, imo, it was asked graciously, without a hint of anything untoward. You, commendably, asked for scripture. None came. That's not an opinion. Posts 6, 7, and 8 are completely void of scripture. The response was an appeal to doctrinally biased sources.

So, whether the meaning is eschatological or off-topically not eschatological, those supporting any premise the red heifers have meaning have largely ignored your inquiries. Given what has occurred here, do you think the next week will be any different?
 
Ok so...perhaps all of this actually happens..."what does it really mean?"
Nothing eschatological. Eschatologically speaking, it means nothing.
Right...and I agree with your answer here to my question and I have followed you all along Josheb...you stayed the course and battled hard albeit apparently for naught...no?
And anyone who's ever engaged a modern futurist on this sort of topic having to go through the same kind of inanity that has occurred here (resistance to reason, eisegetic manipulation of scripture, chronic attempts to change the subject or shift the onus, etc.) so, no, none of us are done fighting. The more you engage them, the more they'll fight you, too.
I have never really put those "Institutionally Correct" names to it...but I do understand them...I only see in terms of the seed of the "woman" or the seed of the "serpent"...it is no longer difficult to discern...but some of the folks are simply confused Josheb.

A thought Josheb...first a short story to set or frame my thought for you. I have come through several denominational structures, held leadership positions in all of them, including "deacon, elder and pastoral duty" in a couple of them. The reason I went to and through these denominational realities is because I thought I would find Truth Himself in there somewhere...no...in every case at every church there was at best only a "wisp of Truth" in the house...just enough to lead me out of there...every time. My last pastoral responsibility in a congregation of over 350 people really paid well no less.

So to the point...thank for your patience bro...the reason I did not stay in the religious institution is because though they claim the Father and the Son...none of them ever...ever...presented spiritual life in Christ as a "Father and son relationship"...no. It took 15 years of religiously dogmatic abuse of scripture...in several genres...that were being violently beat into my soul by the religious functionary...for me to abandon that sinking ship and its not the ship of Zion.

Those who lead religion...pastors...were not called to that structure by the Holy Spirit Josheb...no way. Almost all of them were mere hirelings educated and trained to do a job they wanted to pursue. As such...they were incapable of presenting the "Gospel of the Kingdom of God" in Truth...nor were they really trying...some did better than others.

The one thing that bothered me most about this is...the congregations they taught believed they were getting the "Gospel truth" when in fact they were being lied to and manipulated and led to the slaughter...while they were believing they were heading to the rapture. This lying spirit presents itself as the "Holy Spirit" to the deceived...right? So the more time they spend marinating in the presence of the false messiah and his harlot bride...the more they become like them...ultimately living and acting like them.

I am so disappointed about that...yet...we are clearly instructed about the reality of that actually happening in the church structure...that is where I see most of these people you characterized as "resistance to reason, eisegetic manipulation of scripture, chronic attempts to change the subject or shift the onus, etc." For those who are in this place...they have been cheated and lied to...now they are being destroyed...however as you have experienced here...there is almost no connecting to them...I can only continue to grow in the image and likeness of my God and Father while maturing in the character and nature of my Lord Yahshua...with the hope that I may be called a "son of God" who can bring light to those whom He has chosen...for the rest however...destruction. Thanks for listening...I hope it brings you strength and light.

What's next my brother? Who is the "woman' of Revelation 12?

Tatwo...:)
 
Right...and I agree with your answer here to my question and I have followed you all along Josheb...you stayed the course and battled hard albeit apparently for naught...no?
That is my conclusion. They are ever speculating but never realizing, and that is a terrible way to walk in Christ.
So to the point...thank for your patience bro...the reason I did not stay in the religious institution is because though they claim the Father and the Son...none of them ever...ever...presented spiritual life in Christ as a "Father and son relationship"...no........... I am so disappointed about tha yet...we are clearly instructed about the reality of that actually happening in the church structure...
Well, to be fair....

People are imperfect. Therefore, whenever people gather the group(s) the form will, likewise, be imperfect. You and I are part of the problem. We needn't shy away from it. Consider John 3:19...

John 3:19
This is the verdict: that the light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the light, for their deeds were evil.

We're supposed to lean into the problem, not hide!

John 3:20-21
For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God.

Anyone can gripe, complain, and eschew organized fellowship. It takes no courage to do that. To face the imperfection, to engage it and engage it in Christ so that God-wrought things may be seen is a much, much better way to live. The real reason Martha complained about her sister s that she could not see the valued in her own service, not that she held any resentment about her beloved sister. I suspect this need to engage, to "walk in the light, is one of the reasons those who unjustly criticize and divide the body of Christ are called "devils." I choose not to be an Adam who ignores his own problem and culpability, favoring the blame of everyone else, and I choose not to be an accuser of the brethren AND stand against that practice when it occurs (and leading prompts). The author of Hebrews would need to exhort his readers not to give up meeting together if institutionalized or organized religion was easy and perfect.
What's next my brother?
Whatever the next op brings.
Who is the "woman' of Revelation 12?

Tatwo...:)
Start and op and I'll weigh in.
 
You and I are part of the problem. We needn't shy away from it. Consider John 3:19...
Perhaps...perhaps...as a whole however...I have never shied away from the challenge...I bring the light.
Anyone can gripe, complain, and eschew organized fellowship. It takes no courage to do that. To face the imperfection, to engage it and engage it in Christ so that God-wrought things may be seen is a much, much better way to live.
Of course...and I agree...and I have not behaved like this...never really...I have faced it...that is why I became a pastor over two congregations...it's the structure that fails the people in my experience. God has been calling His own out of the "church" because the "church" is not the house of God...just like most "Christians" are just that..."Christians"...they are not the "sons of God" that is a maturity issue...no one told them they were supposed to "grow up."

Tatwo...:)
 
Nothing eschatological. Eschatologically speaking, it means nothing.


And anyone who's ever engaged a modern futurist on this sort of topic having to go through the same kind of inanity that has occurred here (resistance to reason, eisegetic manipulation of scripture, chronic attempts to change the subject or shift the onus, etc.) so, no, none of us are done fighting. The more you engage them, the more they'll fight you, too.

There may be other meaning(s) associated with red heifers, consecration rituals and new temples but, as you can see, none of the modern futurists currently present can form a cogent and coherent response. They are invited to do so by both of us. More than once. Which means the question you are now asking has been answered. They do not know. This particular board is the End Times and Prophecy board. It's not the Dispensationalism Outside of Eschatology board. Modern futurists post these ops in this board because they prima facie believe these things are eschatologically relevant. They are not used to others wondering what it is in heaven and earth they are thinking. Or at least they are not used to it in any way other than fighting about it. The reason your original question was not answered directly and immediately after it was asked is either because they do not know, or they do not want to have that conversation. You asked your question a week ago and, imo, it was asked graciously, without a hint of anything untoward. You, commendably, asked for scripture. None came. That's not an opinion. Posts 6, 7, and 8 are completely void of scripture. The response was an appeal to doctrinally biased sources.

So, whether the meaning is eschatological or off-topically not eschatological, those supporting any premise the red heifers have meaning have largely ignored your inquiries. Given what has occurred here, do you think the next week will be any different?
Keep saying the same thing over and over and over. It doesn't make it true. Argumentative. Toxic behaviour.
 
Ok so...perhaps all of this actually happens..."what does it really mean?"
Nothing eschatological. Eschatologically speaking, it means nothing.
Keep saying the same thing over and over and over. It doesn't make it true. Argumentative. Toxic behaviour.
Greetings [COLOR=rgb(0, 0, 0)]eclipseEventSigns[/COLOR]...

Perhaps you might attempt to educate us in regard to my question...then?

Tatwo...:)
 
Perhaps...perhaps...as a whole however...I have never shied away from the challenge...I bring the light.

Of course...and I agree...and I have not behaved like this...never really...I have faced it...that is why I became a pastor over two congregations...it's the structure that fails the people in my experience.
I was speaking generically, not specifically you, not singling anyone out. Since no one is perfect we all contribute in some way to the problem. It's as the old adage says: If we found the perfect congregation then we could not join it because it would then become imperfect ;). I do not want to get far afield of the op but our individual and collective imperfection should be obvious to all (except, possibly, the deluded sinless perfectionist) because the entire epistolary is very much about the NT era Church's imperfection. Every single word of correction is proof of the imperfection. The commonly occurring Facebook meme, "If Paul ever saw the Church in America, we'd be getting a letter," is true!
God has been calling His own out of the "church" because the "church" is not the house of God...just like most "Christians" are just that..."Christians"...they are not the "sons of God" that is a maturity issue...no one told them they were supposed to "grow up."

Tatwo...:)
I disagree and believe that is part of the problem to be solved. Ironically, I consider the view just expressed a direct result of Dispensationalism, or modern futurism (which will bring me back to the op).

Theologically speaking, there is only one Church, and there has always been only one Church. The Church is those who are "called out." This is generally understood and will be asserted for the purpose of this post, to mean "those called out of the world into service of God through His resurrected Son." More succinctly, the Church is the body of Christ. Nothing more, nothing less. The Bible never uses the word "church" (ecclesia) in ways we use it nowadays. It's never used to refer to a building. Ever. It's never used to refer to any organization other than the body of Christ. We've done ourselves a huge injustice by assigning multiple meanings to the word, thereby creating ambiguities that should never exist and problems that are easily fixed simply by applying appropriate labels (even if we have to invent them).

Perhaps this is a holdover from Roman Catholicism, but that is not the current problem. In the 19th century the restoration movement fragmented Christians (not the Church, the body of believers), accusing large swaths of Christendom of being correct while each new sect postured and asserted itself as the pure version of the Church. Everyone needs to leave the Church because the Church is corrupt. Everyone must leave the Church and become a member of the Church of Christ because we're the true version of the restored Church (according to what we say is the NT era version of true Christianity). Everyone must become a Brethren, or an Adventist (or JW or LDS) because each of those pinheads wrongly and very delusionally imagined they were the restored version. The original leaders of the Reformation did not want to start new denominations. They want the RCC to reform. That was not the case with the 19th century Restoration Movement. They proactively declared the Church corrupt, and corrupt in way theologically impossible. The Impeccability of Christ was always thought to impute a certain impeccability on his body. That changed in the 1800s. Nowadays, not only do we have a large number of Christians saying, "The Church is corrupt! The Church is corrupt! The Church is corrupt!" but many also deny the Impeccability of Christ. Of course, it makes sense: if Christ is not impeccable then how can his body be so? HUGE foundational change in Christian thought, doctrine, and practice and now, almost 200 years later, the effect of that ironic corruption is near completion. They corrupted the Church and got exactly what they'd claimed already existed. Now the word Church" has to use a lower-case "c" and be put into quotation marks. We have been deceived. We have been corrupted and our own kind did it to us.

Some denominations within the restoration movement were different and did not contribute to this problem to the same degree. The SDA, for example, maintained social action and involvement. At the other end of the spectrum, however, were the Darbyites. The early Brethren eschewed politics and social policy. Christians were to withdraw from the world entirely. The world was going to go to heel in a handbasket any day now and Jesus was coming to rapture all the true Christians off the planet, so separate from the world and prepare for his coming! Of course, the word "true" was measured by sectarian affiliation, not whether one professed Christ salvifically. John Darby was especially severe about this, publishing pamphlets espousing Christian separation from worldly affairs. His views became increasingly extreme to the point that he criticized the Plymouth Brethren and formed his own sect, which he called the Extreme Brethren. The man was not a good influence of the body of Christ.

Three of the most foundational fundamental aspects of Dispensationalism are...

  1. The requirement to read scripture literally.
  2. The distinction between Israel and the Church, the belief in two peoples of God with two different purposes.
  3. The elevation of ecclesiology and eschatology over other Christian doctrines (like Christology and soteriology).

These are three of the precepts driving the Dispensational Premillennialists' op in every Christian forum on the planet - including this one. Because the modern futurist emphasizes ecclesiology (the doctrine of the Church) and s/he believes the Church is corrupt there is a need for the Church to prepare to leave the planet. Coming out of the corrupted church and joining the pure version was the first step in helping know who was going to get raptured away.

That is the basis for rapture theory. That is the basis for this nonsense we have to leave or come out of the Church. We ARE the Church! We can no more "come out" of the Church than we can come out of our own skin. When someone espousing this need to "come out" is asked about this the aforementioned problem of ambiguity instantly appears because such a person does not mean the Christian needs to leave or come out of the body of Christ. They mean the Christian must leave the institution, or the religiosity, or at least those congregations where they might have some problem (like a pastor who watches his wife have sex with others, or the organization is accumulating huge amounts of material wealth and not practicing the religion God honors, or the institution is gathering incredible political influence based on ideology, not scripture). None of that is the Church.

They perverted the word.

Then they taught others to abuse the perverted term.

They are the false teachers about which they warned everybody!


It's very easy to do if you do not believe Jesus is NOW enthroned and ruling over the earth.

These problems are fairly easy to address with simple changes in our language. I use the word "congregation" when I mean a local body of believers. That is how we should understand the epistles, letter written to the congregations in a given locale - all of whom were members of the one, much larger entity known back then as the ecclesia, the Church. When we use the word "Church" we should mean the ecclesia, the body of Christ (in all its simultaneously existing majesty and imperfection). That's how I use the word, and I capitalize to distinguish it from the rare occasion when I use the word church or churches. The words "institution" or "denomination," etc. easily cover all the other conditions in which we intend to talk about various aspects of Christians acting in groups and/or the organizational consequences thereof.
 
God has been calling His own out of the "church" because the "church" is not the house of God...
No, He has not.

There is no such thing as the "church". There is only the Church and those in the Church cannot leave it because every single member of the Church has been purchased and is not his/her own. The word has to be perverted, twisted, abused, mangled, vomited on and putrefied to make it something we put in quotation marks. We're not using the word as scripture uses it when we put it in quotations.

If God is calling His own to do something, then it is to stand up to that nonsense as The Church.

There will always be tares sitting in the pews next to the ecclesia. They are sitting in a building, but they are not the Church. It is the poseur who should leave the Church and the only way that is going to happen is when the Church stands up as the Church and stops this nonsense self-abusing the word "Church."


1 Corinthians 5:1-5
It is actually reported that there is immorality among you, and immorality of such a kind as does not exist even among the Gentiles, that someone has his father's wife. You have become arrogant and have not mourned instead, so that the one who had done this deed would be removed from your midst. For I, on my part, though absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged him who has so committed this, as though I were present. In the name of our Lord Jesus, when you are assembled, and I with you in spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus, I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

It's a curious passage. Is the man having sex with his father's wife a member of the Church in Corinth? Paul never states the man is not a Church member, someone called out by God :unsure:. was the man even a Christian? None of us can stand as the arbiter of another's eternal disposition. Paul never declares it one way or the other, but throughout his letter he provided plenty of criteria by which that might be measured (Ga. 5, for example). What Paul, personally, decided to do was hand the man over to Satan. Why? So the man's spirit would be saved!!!

Not so the man would be tossed into the fiery lake 😯.

1 Corinthians 5:6-7
Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough? Clean out the old leaven so that you may be a new lump, just as you are in fact unleavened. For Christ our Passover also has been sacrificed.

Was Paul gaslighting the congregation's leaders? Was he saying they were the problem, the reason why that man was having sex with his father's wife? No! Of course not! Pointing out the leaven AND the pride coexisting in that congregation is something that could be done with ANY group of Christians, whether they be 25 in number, or 2,500 in number).

1 Corinthians 1:2
To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling, with all who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours:

That congregation was messy. The Church of God has messy people living in messy congregations and, if the example of Corinth can be extrapolated into modernity, then the leaders are prideful and some of the congregants are sexually immoral.


There are 2.3 billion of us now.


And, sadly, many are waiting on a red heifer oblivious to the nonsense inherent in the premise when they could and should be doing what they were created to be doing.

Ephesians 2:10
For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.


No red heifer wanted or needed.
.
 

Scripture indicates the sacrifices will be reinstated before the revealing of the son of perdition / abomination that maketh desolate / the beast and his Antichrist. Now Israel has five red heifers and apparently without spot or blemish. Ready to begin the ritual of Sacrificing and how soon will they rebuild the third Temple.

Will the Third Temple be built?​

renderTimingPixel.png

Perhaps. From Texas to Israel: Red heifers needed for Temple arrive:
the Temple Institute continues preparations to lay the ground for the construction of the Third Temple in Jerusalem.
But for me, the Third Temple is not needed, Hebrews 10:
1 For since the law has but a shadow of the good things to come instead of the true form of these realities, it can never, by the same sacrifices that are continually offered every year, make perfect those who draw near. 2Otherwise, would they not have ceased to be offered, since the worshipers, having once been cleansed, would no longer have any consciousness of sins? 3 But in these sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. 4 For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.
The blood of red heifers cannot take away sins permanently. But there is good news:
5 Consequently, when Christ came into the world, he said,
“Sacrifices and offerings you have not desired,
but a body have you prepared for me;
6 in burnt offerings and sin offerings
you have taken no pleasure.
7 Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come to do your will, O God, as it is written of me in the scroll of the book.’” ...
11 And every priest stands daily at his service, offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins,
on the Cross
he sat down at the right hand of God, 13waiting from that time until his enemies should be made a footstool for his feet. 14 For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.
Jesus' cross did away with the need for the Temple.
18 Where there is forgiveness of these, there is no longer any offering for sin.
Will the Third Temple be built?
I don't know. It would be exciting news if they started building the Third Temple. However, I would not give a penny to support the project. I don't need the temple, and neither do any Christians.
See also Will Ezekiel's temple be built?
 

Will the Third Temple be built?​

No, and if another temple is built it will have no eschatological significance other than as a testimony to humanity's preference for works of flesh.

The only Christians who think another temple is relevant are Dispensational/Zionist Premillennialists. That view is neither historical nor orthodox. They are the only ones who think Israel is relevant to Christian eschatology.
 

Will the Third Temple be built?​

renderTimingPixel.png

Perhaps. From Texas to Israel: Red heifers needed for Temple arrive:

But for me, the Third Temple is not needed, Hebrews 10:

The blood of red heifers cannot take away sins permanently. But there is good news:

on the Cross

Jesus' cross did away with the need for the Temple.

Will the Third Temple be built?
I don't know. It would be exciting news if they started building the Third Temple. However, I would not give a penny to support the project. I don't need the temple, and neither do any Christians.
See also Will Ezekiel's temple be built?
Judaism does not believe in Christ. That alone make it possible that they will try to rebuild the third Temple and resume the sacrificing of the red heifer - the Torah / Old Testament is their what we call Bible.
 
That alone make it possible that they will try to rebuild the third Temple and resume the sacrificing of the red heifer...
Hmmm...

Christian eschatology by possibility. Should sound Christian doctrine be formed based on what is possible absent explicit scripture?
 
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