Understanding the Prophecy of 70 Weeks

[TMSO]

You keep stating falsehoods. "decree" and "determined" are NOT synonyms. Totally and absolutely not true whatsoever.

I see what you did there. Decree and determined (v) would not be synonyms, however decreed (v) and determined (v) would be synonyms. So would decree (v) and determine (v). So, no falsehoods at all. This is you saying you want a thesaurus for Christmas without directly asking for a thesaurus for Christmas. I think I noted that I had looked it up in a thesaurus, which was clear that they are synonyms. I also presented definitions that showed they are synonyms.

Both passages contain the "secret" to how the 70 weeks start. They both state that it was the issuing of the "word" of God that was the beginning of the time period. There was no "decree" involved.

Decree can be a noun, but it can also be a verb. It isn't that difficult to follow. I decree that that person is not allowed to... (a verb). I gave a decree that this person... (a noun). In the case of Daniel 9, it is a verb. Command, decree, determine, or if being literal, to cut off/divide.

My videos and book go through all this proof in very much great detail. Much more than can be in a forum post.

You should be able to present a valid compelling argument at this level, which would tell me it may be worth spending my precious, little time with books and videos. However, this is not at all compelling. Especially when you start up with a blatant falsehood.

 

[eclipseEventSigns]

I see what you did there. Decree and determined (v) would not be synonyms, however decreed (v) and determined (v) would be synonyms. So would decree (v) and determine (v). So, no falsehoods at all. This is you saying you want a thesaurus for Christmas without directly asking for a thesaurus for Christmas. I think I noted that I had looked it up in a thesaurus, which was clear that they are synonyms. I also presented definitions that showed they are synonyms.

Decree can be a noun, but it can also be a verb. It isn't that difficult to follow. I decree that that person is not allowed to... (a verb). I gave a decree that this person... (a noun). In the case of Daniel 9, it is a verb. Command, decree, determine, or if being literal, to cut off/divide.

You should be able to present a valid compelling argument at this level, which would tell me it may be worth spending my precious, little time with books and videos. However, this is not at all compelling. Especially when you start up with a blatant falsehood.

It's very telling that you (and most people on this forum) do not want to make the effort to investigate the proper way to interpret this (and many other) prophecy I've discovered. Why should I rewrite the hundreds of hours of research in a forum when I present it the way I want it presented in my videos and books. I don't care if you don't ever know the truth. It's your loss. But stop denigrated me for your lack of courage to challenge your preconceived assumptions.

 

[TMSO]

It's very telling that you (and most people on this forum) do not want to make the effort to investigate the proper way to interpret this (and many other) prophecy I've discovered. Why should I rewrite the hundreds of hours of research in a forum when I present it the way I want it presented in my videos and books. I don't care if you don't ever know the truth. It's your loss. But stop denigrated me for your lack of courage to challenge your preconceived assumptions.

It should have been n for noun, and v for verb. Crazy forum. The offer for a thesaurus is still good... Decreed and determined are synonymous. BTW, when it says decree in the Bible, it isn't decree. It is writing or other such words, which basically means determination written on paper. Hence the determination becomes a decree.

 

[TMSO]

It's very telling that you (and most people on this forum) do not want to make the effort to investigate the proper way to interpret this (and many other) prophecy I've discovered. Why should I rewrite the hundreds of hours of research in a forum when I present it the way I want it presented in my videos and books. I don't care if you don't ever know the truth. It's your loss. But stop denigrated me for your lack of courage to challenge your preconceived assumptions.

As for a compelling argument, all we are talking about is language here. You state that the language, which a linguist can explain to you (and has been trying) and explain why, for instance, decreed (a verb) and determined (a verb) are not synonymous. (I would use a thesaurus...) Also, you haven't explained the issue with Ezra, where the same words are translated in two different ways, when it only shows up once in the verse.

 

[eclipseEventSigns]

As for a compelling argument, all we are talking about is language here. You state that the language, which a linguist can explain to you (and has been trying) and explain why, for instance, decreed (a verb) and determined (a verb) are not synonymous. (I would use a thesaurus...) Also, you haven't explained the issue with Ezra, where the same words are translated in two different ways, when it only shows up once in the verse.

As I said, look at my presentations. Not going to lay out the entire evidence and sources in a forum post. If you don't have the time or interest, then I don't have the time or interest in engaging with you.

 

[Hobie]

Then it can't be determined, because determined and decree are SYNONYMS. Read it again. The definition isn't determined, however, the context pushes the idea of determined/decreed, so that is how it is translated. It is divide/cut off. God has divided/cut off 70 weeks for Israel. Can you see how this lends the idea of determined/decreed? The context. The 70 weeks started with the decree to rebuild Israel.
"So you are to know and understand that from the issuing of a [y]decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem, until [z]Messiah the Prince, there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks;" If you can't understand why it is tranlsated as the issuing of a decree, get a dictionary and look up what decree means.

Let's look at Ezra 6:14

And they finished	וְשַׁכְלִ֗לוּ (ve·shach·li·lu)	3635: to complete	(Aramaic) corresponding to kalal
building	וּבְנֹ֣ו (u·ve·nov)	1124: to build	(Aramaic) corresponding to banah
according	מִן־ (min-)	4481: from, out of, by, by reason of, at, more than	(Aramaic) corresponding to min
to the command	וּמִטְּעֵם֙ (u·mit·te·'em)	2942: taste, judgment, command	(Aramaic) from teem
of the God	אֱלָ֣הּ (e·lah)	426: God, god	(Aramaic) corresponding to eloah
of Israel	יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל (yis·ra·'el,)	3479: desc. of Jacob	(Aramaic) corresponding to Yisrael
and the decree		2942: taste, judgment, command	(Aramaic) from teem
of Cyrus,	כֹּ֣ורֶשׁ (ko·v·resh)	3567: a Pers. king	(Aramaic) corresponding to Koresh
Darius,	וְדָרְיָ֔וֶשׁ (ve·da·re·ya·vesh,)	1868: two Pers. kings	(Aramaic) corresponding to Dareyavesh
and Artaxerxes	וְאַרְתַּחְשַׁ֖שְׂתְּא (ve·'ar·tach·shas·te)	783b: a son and successor of Xerxes, king of Persia	(Aramaic) of foreign origin

Same word is used of God and kings, yet they are translated differently each time. I thought that the original Hebrew mattered? It looks like the preference of the translator, something which you said doesn't matter. What it looks like is that "and the decree" doesn't actually exist, but was put in by the translator.

Its like the Hebrew word for "day" is yom (יום) which can have multiple meanings, including a 24-hour period of time or period of daylight between dawn and dusk etc. You have to add context to see how it is being used..

 

[eclipseEventSigns]

Its like the Hebrew word for "day" is yom (יום) which can have multiple meanings, including a 24-hour period of time or period of daylight between dawn and dusk etc. You have to add context to see how it is being used..

No. This is incorrect. I tried to already correct that faulty view. There was no "DECREE". That is an incorrect translation of the Hebrew word. There was a WORD that went out. This phrase is NEVER used of an action of an earthly king or ruler when Daniel uses that particular word. The assumption of trying to find when a king made a "decree" is entirely false.

 

[EarlyActs]

We read Daniel 9 starting in verse 22...
22 And he informed me, and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding.
23 At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

The Prophecy of Seventy Weeks in Daniel chapter 9, is the 490 years of uninterrupted period starting from "the time the word goes out to rebuild and restore Jerusalem," of Daniel 9:25 and ending 3½ years after Jesus' death. The starting point identified with a decree by Artaxerxes I in 458/7 BC to provide money to rebuild Jerusalem and its temple.

Now there where two earlier decrees by Cyrus and Darius’. So why don't these two decrees qualify to start the prophecy of Daniel 9:25? Well lets take a look at these two decrees. The first is the decree of Cyrus, given in his first year (537/536 B.C.) which is recorded in Ezra 1:1-4. An undated decree of Darius (520/519 B.C.) which is found in Ezra 6:1-12 merely reconfirms the decree of Cyrus. however, the first two decrees are about the temple, and its reconstruction, whereas the statement in Daniel 9:25 is concerned with the decree that resulted in the rebuilding of the city of Jerusalem.

The first two decrees can be omitted from consideration, because they deal only with the building of the temple, and not the rebuilding of the city and restoration, "that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times." So we can see that the third decree of Artaxerxes is the one that started the prophecy of Daniel 9 and was implemented in September/October 457 B.C.

The appearance of "Messiah the Prince" at the end of the 69 weeks (483 years) is aligned with Jesus' baptism in 27 CE. The 'cutting off' of the "anointed one" is applied to the Jesus' execution 3½ years after the end of the 483 years, bringing "atonement for iniquity" and "everlasting righteousness". Jesus' death is said to 'confirm' the "covenant" between God and mankind by in 31 CE "in the midst of" the last seven years. The end of the 70th week is associated with 34 AD when the gospel was redirected from only the Jews to all peoples

Christian historicism, which is what unveils these verses from scripture, interprets prophecy as an overview of the history of the Christian church, asserting connections between historical events and statements in the Bible, and distinguishing between prophecies considered already fulfilled and those still to come. The Jews of biblical times, had taught this view in the many prophecies to be fulfilled, which were pointing to the Messiah such as those by the prophets Isaiah and Ezekiel. The early church and the precursors to the Reformation used it, Jerome in his 'Commentary on Daniel' went into the kingdoms that Daniel predicted, and we find it held by many of the Protestant Reformers and in their teachings.

It’s good til the last paragraph. It sounds like you mean to find things down through church history. I don’t accept that bc of the widespread expectation by the apostles that the world should end right after the destruction of Israel in 70. I notice you don’t mention that nor the timestamp about it formed by Lk 23:28.

 

[eclipseEventSigns]

It’s good til the last paragraph. It sounds like you mean to find things down through church history. I don’t accept that bc of the widespread expectation by the apostles that the world should end right after the destruction of Israel in 70. I notice you don’t mention that nor the timestamp about it formed by Lk 23:28.

Both comments are based on faulty translations which leads to a faulty and wrong understanding of the prophecy. One can NOT use the KJV translation to properly understand the 70 Weeks prophecy. Neither can one use any translation that inserts a particular bias into the text. ANY translation that capitalizes the words "Messiah" and "Prince" are wrong. This is inserting a translation bias into the original Hebrew text.
The Hebrew language has no capital letters. Neither does it have any punctuation. Only if you go back to original text will you ever have a hope of properly understanding the prophecy. THAT is one of major discoveries I've made that almost no one has recognized for centuries. And its the reason I've cracked the true interpretation finally in these end times.

 

[Hobie]

No. This is incorrect. I tried to already correct that faulty view. There was no "DECREE". That is an incorrect translation of the Hebrew word. There was a WORD that went out. This phrase is NEVER used of an action of an earthly king or ruler when Daniel uses that particular word. The assumption of trying to find when a king made a "decree" is entirely false.

So you have it right but the Bible scholars are all wrong, hmm. Need to rethink that..

 

[eclipseEventSigns]

So you have it right but the Bible scholars are all wrong, hmm. Need to rethink that..

Actually, no. You should rethink your assumption that Bible scholars are always right. I am a Bible scholar of over 40 years (yes, a degree). Do your own research and never assume what people claim is true. You might just find out that almost EVERYTHING you assume to be true, actually isn't.

 

[Mr GLee]

No. This is incorrect. I tried to already correct that faulty view. There was no "DECREE". That is an incorrect translation of the Hebrew word. There was a WORD that went out. This phrase is NEVER used of an action of an earthly king or ruler when Daniel uses that particular word. The assumption of trying to find when a king made a "decree" is entirely false.

"To decree, decide, pronounce a decision," therefore "discriminate, distinguish"

You could say a decision as a decree went forth.

 

[eclipseEventSigns]

"To decree, decide, pronounce a decision," therefore "discriminate, distinguish"

You could say a decision as a decree went forth.

It's not what it means.

 

[Mr GLee]

It's not what it means.

It is how it is used .

A decree establishes discriminates distinguishes. A decree is law not subject to change .

Job 22:28 Thou shalt also decree a thing, and it shall be established unto thee: and the light shall shine upon thy ways

The big problem is that the word "decree" as translated in English does not actually mean "decree" the way it is understood. Daniel never used that Hebrew word for an earthly king's decree. Never. Not once. It is not from an earthly king. And Ezra 6:14 proves this. That is the entire point behind the Ezra 6:14 Challenge.

Used according to the commandment of Christ hegave to the King who prophesied the word of the Father .

In that way not a oral tradition (not of dying mankind )


Ezra 6:14 And the elders of the Jews builded, and they prospered through the prophesying of Haggai the prophet and Zechariah the son of Iddo. And they builded, and finished it, according to the commandment of the God of Israel, and according to the commandment of Cyrus, and Darius, and Artaxerxes king of Persia.

 

[eclipseEventSigns]

It is how it is used .

A decree establishes discriminates distinguishes. A decree is law not subject to change .

Job 22:28 Thou shalt also decree a thing, and it shall be established unto thee: and the light shall shine upon thy ways


Used according to the commandment of Christ hegave to the King who prophesied the word of the Father .

In that way not a oral tradition (not of dying mankind )


Ezra 6:14 And the elders of the Jews builded, and they prospered through the prophesying of Haggai the prophet and Zechariah the son of Iddo. And they builded, and finished it, according to the commandment of the God of Israel, and according to the commandment of Cyrus, and Darius, and Artaxerxes king of Persia.

Again, can't say it more plainly. Daniel NEVER uses that Hebrew word to mean a decree from an earthly king anywhere in his writings. No where. It is Interpretation101 that one can not assign what one WANTS it to mean to a word. The author decides how the word is used. That particular word is used elsewhere in Daniel 9 and it always refers to the words of God - not men.

It continues to be very evident that you and others have not taken the time to review the material this thread is based on. Please present questions about the material instead of stating unfounded opinions.

 

[Mr GLee]

Again, can't say it more plainly. Daniel NEVER uses that Hebrew word to mean a decree from an earthly king anywhere in his writings. No where. It is Interpretation101 that one can not assign what one WANTS it to mean to a word. The author decides how the word is used. That particular word is used elsewhere in Daniel 9 and it always refers to the words of God - not men.

It continues to be very evident that you and others have not taken the time to review the material this thread is based on. Please present questions about the material instead of stating unfounded opinions.

Thanks unfounded?

Prophecy = God revealing his will through earthly kings. . . prophets. A kingdom of priest . Christ the King of Salem King of kings)

Yes words God assigns to his apostles to decree . Powerful enough to stop the madness of the false apostle false prophet Balaam.

Numbers 22:28And the Lord opened the mouth of the ass, and she said unto Balaam, What have I done unto thee, that thou hast smitten me these three times?

In that way Christ is not served by human hand as a will of dying mankind .

He alone has the power of the "Let there be" breath of life; and man became a living soul.















s

 

[eclipseEventSigns]

Thanks unfounded?

Prophecy = God revealing his will through earthly kings. . . prophets. A kingdom of priest . Christ the King of Salem King of kings)

Yes words God assigns to his apostles to decree . Powerful enough to stop the madness of the false apostle false prophet Balaam.

Numbers 22:28And the Lord opened the mouth of the ass, and she said unto Balaam, What have I done unto thee, that thou hast smitten me these three times?

In that way Christ is not served by human hand as a will of dying mankind .

He alone has the power of the "Let there be" breath of life; and man became a living soul.















s

I have no idea what that gobbledygook even means.

Here's a homework assignment for you and others. If you want to begin to correctly understand the 70 Weeks this is what you should do. The word in Dan9:25 often translated (incorrectly) as "decree" is the Hebrew "dabar". It means "word, utterance". No where does Daniel use it for an earthly king's decree. Prove me wrong.

In fact, show any instance of a contemporary Biblical author who uses that word to refer to an earthly king's written decree. That means any instance in Ezra, Nehemiah, Ezekiel, Esther or Daniel. Just a single one.

If you can not, what does that mean? It means the assumption that the Daniel 9 is talking about an earthly king's decree is entirely incorrect and the common interpretations through the centuries are entirely incorrect.

 

[Mr GLee]

I have no idea what that gobbledygook even means.

Here's a homework assignment for you and others. If you want to begin to correctly understand the 70 Weeks this is what you should do. The word in Dan9:25 often translated (incorrectly) as "decree" is the Hebrew "dabar". It means "word, utterance". No where does Daniel use it for an earthly king's decree. Prove me wrong.

In fact, show any instance of a contemporary Biblical author who uses that word to refer to an earthly king's written decree. That means any instance in Ezra, Nehemiah, Ezekiel, Esther or Daniel. Just a single one.

If you can not, what does that mean? It means the assumption that the Daniel 9 is talking about an earthly king's decree is entirely incorrect and the common interpretations through the centuries are entirely incorrect.

Ok so he uttered a decree. called a commandment in the KJ

You are missing the point. No one is claiming the decree came from a earthly king . It was the Kings of kings not seen behind the decree . Its called prophecy .

 

[eclipseEventSigns]

Ok so he uttered a decree. called a commandment in the KJ

You are missing the point. No one is claiming the decree came from a earthly king . It was the Kings of kings not seen behind the decree . Its called prophecy .

Did you do the homework? Reply when you have.

 

[TMSO]

I have no idea what that gobbledygook even means.

Here's a homework assignment for you and others. If you want to begin to correctly understand the 70 Weeks this is what you should do. The word in Dan9:25 often translated (incorrectly) as "decree" is the Hebrew "dabar". It means "word, utterance". No where does Daniel use it for an earthly king's decree. Prove me wrong.

In fact, show any instance of a contemporary Biblical author who uses that word to refer to an earthly king's written decree. That means any instance in Ezra, Nehemiah, Ezekiel, Esther or Daniel. Just a single one.

If you can not, what does that mean? It means the assumption that the Daniel 9 is talking about an earthly king's decree is entirely incorrect and the common interpretations through the centuries are entirely incorrect.

Daniel 9:23 does not use Dabar to speak of a written decree, or spoken decree, for God or for man. It does use it for word, command, etc. Scripture also uses the word the same for both God and man.

Note up front: KJV doesn't translate dabar H1697 as decree ever. In fact, some of the verses show that decree is a different word.
Hmmm... I'm surprised:

Daniel 9:23 At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment H1697 came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, H1697 and consider the vision.

Daniel 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment H1697 to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

I think the question is why did they decide to translate the word differently in Daniel 9:25 in so many translations, next to Daniel 9:23. Perhaps to delineate between God and man? KJV didn't hold back here on doing a proper translation of either verse. So, yes, even Daniel used the word in relation to a human king. In this case it was either Cyrus, or Artaxerxes, if I recall. This is not the same as the last one, and I haven't actually looked into this one. The calculations place the last day on the day of the Triumphal Entry in 35 AD, I believe. That makes sense because it was at that time that the Jews "accepted" Jesus as King, and then unilaterally rejected Him. That causes the Messiah being cut off with nothing after sixty-nine weeks to make sense.

Below are multiple times that the same word refers to an earthly king's "commandment":

Esther 1:12 "But the queen Vashti refused to come at the king's commandment H1697 by his chamberlains: therefore was the king very wroth, and his anger burned in him."

Esther 1:19 "If it please the king, let there go a royal commandment H1697 from him, and let it be written among the laws of the Persians and the Medes, that it be not altered, That Vashti come no more before king Ahasuerus; and let the king give her royal estate unto another that is better than she."

Esther 2:8 "So it came to pass, when the king's commandment H1697 and his decree was heard, and when many maidens were gathered together unto Shushan the palace, to the custody of Hegai, that Esther was brought also unto the king's house, to the custody of Hegai, keeper of the women."

Esther 3:15 "The posts went out, being hastened by the king's commandment, H1697 and the decree was given in Shushan the palace. And the king and Haman sat down to drink; but the city Shushan was perplexed."

Esther 4:3 "And in every province, whithersoever the king's commandment H1697 and his decree came, there was great mourning among the Jews, and fasting, and weeping, and wailing; and many lay in sackcloth and ashes."

Esther 8:14 "So the posts that rode upon mules and camels went out, being hastened and pressed on by the king's commandment. H1697 And the decree was given at Shushan the palace."

Esther 8:17 "And in every province, and in every city, whithersoever the king's commandment H1697 and his decree came, the Jews had joy and gladness, a feast and a good day. And many of the people of the land became Jews; for the fear of the Jews fell upon them."

Esther 9:1 "Now in the twelfth month, that is, the month Adar, on the thirteenth day of the same, when the king's commandment H1697 and his decree drew near to be put in execution, in the day that the enemies of the Jews hoped to have power over them, (though it was turned to the contrary, that the Jews had rule over them that hated them"