Israel Sacrificing of The Red Heifer

[Josheb]

I would agree not waiting on predictions. We have the perfect whole revealed will of God sealed with 7 seals to the last day under the Sun.............

My bad. Thanks for reminding me!

So, where do you believe we are in prophetic history?

While the "last days" might not be over, finished, completed, I am inclined to think they are and the only things remaining are the cultural mandate and great commission and..... the last day (singular).

The last days and the last day are different. The former has transpired, the latter has not.

 

[CrowCross]

Yahuda Singer is 71 years old. If "this" generation means Mr. Singer's generation then @Sheila3's "not too distant future" and your "this generation," that means the described event will happen in the next 9 years. Even if Mr. Singer lives to be 100 years old, it's not likely those heifers will live that long (average lifespan 18-20 years). So, at the most, the heifer's sacrifice might be delayed for as long as 20 years, and since that sacrifice is intended to consecrate ground for a future temple, we can add the period of time necessary to build that temple onto the time period before the temple is completed and other ritual sacrifices can begin. Since it took 46 years to build the last temple (it might take a few less years given modern technology or a few more years given the political climate in the Middle east), but let's round that down to 40 years, for the sake of this thread. That means it will likely be 50-60 years before the temple is finished.

I believe the red heffer has to be between 1 and 3 years old. I think there may be less than a year on the calander left for them to qualify.
I've also heard they can build the temple in several months...50-60 years would not be required.

Keep in ind the temple isn't a requirement for the rapture to happen.

 

[TATII]

Sorry about the mistake in the writing space.

No problem Sheila3...

Tatwo...

 

[Josheb]

I believe the red heffer has to be between 1 and 3 years old. I think there may be less than a year on the calander left for them to qualify.
I've also heard they can build the temple in several months...50-60 years would not be required.

And what is the likelihood of either event actually happening?

Do you think the author of that article knows what you've just said?

Keep in [m]ind the temple isn't a requirement for the rapture to happen.

It is for some.

 

[CrowCross]

And what is the likelihood of either event actually happening?

It is very likely.

Do you think the author of that article knows what you've just said?

Why would that matter?

It is for some.

So what? Do you think every pre-trib christian has discerned it properly? I don't. I don't even think I have it all right.

In post 12 I presented you with a list that i came up with off the top of my head.

 

[Arial]

In terms of the subject matter…It is that “simple” Crowcross & Sheila3…no need to make it difficult…there is no longer any need for “animal sacrifices” to atone for sin. If people want to do that…it’s ok…if they want to make something out of “red heifers” it’s ok…if they want to build a “new temple” it’s ok…however there is no effectual Kingdom of God purpose or significance to any of it.

 

[Josheb]

It is very likely.

May I hold you to that?

Why would that matter?

Hmmm... I am surprised to read that question. It matters because if the predicted events do not happen then that news article, all the claims by the missionary who wrote it, this op, and this thread are wastes of time built on falsehood. If these heifers, the hoped-for consecration, and the future temple never happen then everyone making such claims and supporting such claims has either spoken falsely or lied (depending on their knowledge beforehand).

If I told you, "X will happen in three years," and X does not happen, not only am I factually wrong, but you have reason to point that out to me (and everyone affected by my mistake). If I say "X will happen in three years," and I know beforehand that X will not happen, or is not likely to happen in the specified time, then I haven't simply made a mistake. I have lied.

On one hand, there is a HUGE difference between a falsehood and a lie.

But, on another hand, for all practical intents and purposes the chronic propagation of falsehoods - factual errors made without any intent to deceive -still have adverse effect on the witness to Christ and the body of believers.

That is why it matters.

So what? Do you think every pre-trib christian has discerned it properly? I don't. I don't even think I have it all right.

I do not think ANY pre-trib Christian has it correct. None. I think you are all wrong and all of you are always and everywhere wrong. But I can discuss the problem of false prognostications without vilifying the whole lot of you wretched cretins .

In post 12 I presented you with a list that i came up with off the top of my head.

Most of which is irrelevant and off topic. This op is about red heifers and nothing more, nothing else. You do, however, broach another concern because - as I have often informed you and other pre-tribbers - it is nearly impossible to have a topical discussion without the pre-tribbers sabotaging the discussion with piles of irrelevant matters.

You limiting your half of this conversation specifically to the red heifers and the prospective consecration of ground for a future stone temple will be appreciated. It will also prevent me from criticizing you and all other pre-tribbers for chronically going off topic.




Now, to bring this back around to the op and op-relevant content.

• There is no scripture in the New Testament explicitly stating anything about red heifers.
• There are criteria specific to an OT sacrifice of red herring consecration, and it looks like you are aware of them (personally, it looks like at least one of those heifers is imperfect and therefore disqualified).
• There is now scripture in the OT or NT explicitly stating another temple of stone will be built. None. That is a position held only by modern futurists, and it is a position obtained only through inferential reading of scripture (and I have shown you in other threads how the Dispensationalist view disagree with everyone else - not just those subscribing to my pov).
• If there is a time limit based on either the Law or real-life practicalities and the events predicted do not come true in that period of times then the entire endeavor was a red herring, either a falsehood or a lie, with very real adverse effect.
• When asked about this matter of "when" modern futurists shy way. They will not stand firm and commit to the logically necessary conclusions of the positions they assert - like this idea the five red heifers this missionary wrote about have any eschatological significance. Those five cows may have absolutely NOTHING to do with anything in the Bible...... and if the missionary knows that then his lie of omission is still a lie.
• Scripture tells us not to consider people who make predictions in God's name as having anything to do with God.

Op-relevant topical comments and inquiries are invited.

 

[Mr GLee]

I believe the red heffer has to be between 1 and 3 years old. I think there may be less than a year on the calander left for them to qualify.
I've also heard they can build the temple in several months...50-60 years would not be required.

Keep in ind the temple isn't a requirement for the rapture to happen.

I would offer. No temple made with humans hands as a will dying mankind in the place of honor of our invisible Spiritual King of earthly kings and Spiritual Father of earthy fathers The spirit of adoption by which we can cry out Abba Holy Father. . . . not as we will but as you empower us to walk as one-Using Jesus the Son of man yoked with our unseen head. . . Christ our Holy Father .

Satan the legion of false gods fell when the veil was rent there was no Jewish man as King of kings, siting in the holy of holies . Satan could no longer deceive all the nations of the world that God is a Jewish man as King of kings . He will be released for short time at the end of the age to again deceive dying mankind that God is a Jewish man as King of kings.

Beautiful gospel parable below .

Revelation 20 King James Version And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Believers are the temple .In the new heaven and earth no temple will be found

From these temples we yoked with Christ Christ can sent out mankind with the gospel of light .In the new heavens and earth there will be no Sun or moon there will be no night .

 

[CrowCross]

May I hold you to that?

Hmmm... I am surprised to read that question. It matters because if the predicted events do not happen then that news article, all the claims by the missionary who wrote it, this op, and this thread are wastes of time built on falsehood. If these heifers, the hoped-for consecration, and the future temple never happen then everyone making such claims and supporting such claims has either spoken falsely or lied (depending on their knowledge beforehand).

If I told you, "X will happen in three years," and X does not happen, not only am I factually wrong, but you have reason to point that out to me (and everyone affected by my mistake). If I say "X will happen in three years," and I know beforehand that X will not happen, or is not likely to happen in the specified time, then I haven't simply made a mistake. I have lied.

On one hand, there is a HUGE difference between a falsehood and a lie.

But, on another hand, for all practical intents and purposes the chronic propagation of falsehoods - factual errors made without any intent to deceive -still have adverse effect on the witness to Christ and the body of believers.

That is why it matters.

I do not think ANY pre-trib Christian has it correct. None. I think you are all wrong and all of you are always and everywhere wrong. But I can discuss the problem of false prognostications without vilifying the whole lot of you wretched cretins .

Most of which is irrelevant and off topic. This op is about red heifers and nothing more, nothing else. You do, however, broach another concern because - as I have often informed you and other pre-tribbers - it is nearly impossible to have a topical discussion without the pre-tribbers sabotaging the discussion with piles of irrelevant matters.

You limiting your half of this conversation specifically to the red heifers and the prospective consecration of ground for a future stone temple will be appreciated. It will also prevent me from criticizing you and all other pre-tribbers for chronically going off topic.

To reply...time will tell. Just because you deemed the pre-cribbers are wrong doesn't make it so.

Basically you need to wake up and look around at the signs of the season.

Now, to bring this back around to the op and op-relevant content.

• There is no scripture in the New Testament explicitly stating anything about red heifers.

Scriptures speak of a 3rd temple. Red heifers are required for a 3rd temple.

• There are criteria specific to an OT sacrifice of red herring consecration, and it looks like you are aware of them (personally, it looks like at least one of those heifers is imperfect and therefore disqualified).

I believe there have been two disqualified...which leaves 3. They only need one.

• There is now scripture in the OT or NT explicitly stating another temple of stone will be built. None. That is a position held only by modern futurists, and it is a position obtained only through inferential reading of scripture (and I have shown you in other threads how the Dispensationalist view disagree with everyone else - not just those subscribing to my pov).

As mentioned above....the scripture speaks of a temple in which the abomination of desolation will occur when the anti-christ declares himself to be God.

• If there is a time limit based on either the Law or real-life practicalities and the events predicted do not come true in that period of times then the entire endeavor was a red herring, either a falsehood or a lie, with very real adverse effect.

Why would it be a lie? Your attitude of the pre-tribbers being deceitful is you presenting falsehoods...bearing a false witness.
Will the pre-trib position be correct? I say yes.

• When asked about this matter of "when" modern futurists shy way. They will not stand firm and commit to the logically necessary conclusions of the positions they assert - like this idea the five red heifers this missionary wrote about have any eschatological significance. Those five cows may have absolutely NOTHING to do with anything in the Bible...... and if the missionary knows that then his lie of omission is still a lie.

True, they may have nothing to do with anything in the bible. But, so far they fit the scenario to a "T". The Jews even have an alter built and ready to go.

• Scripture tells us not to consider people who make predictions in God's name as having anything to do with God.

Then I won't expect a reply from you nor a response from any more of my post if that's your position.
Just for the record I'm not making any predictions in the name of God...just connecting dots. For your sake you better hope the pre-tribbers are right.

Op-relevant topical comments and inquiries are invited.

 

[CrowCross]

Satan the legion of false gods fell when the veil was rent there was no Jewish man as King of kings, siting in the holy of holies . Satan could no longer deceive all the nations of the world that God is a Jewish man as King of kings . He will be released for short time at the end of the age to again deceive dying mankind that God is a Jewish man as King of kings.

Satan still walks the earth.

 

[Mr GLee]

Satan still walks the earth.

Yes the father of lies in every false prophet, false apostle .

.A legion of antichrists' (plural) deceived mankind, led by the father of lies, the lying spirit that works in false prophets, false apostles

Antichrists (another teaching authority) other than all things written in the law and prophesies. True prophecy (sola scriptura) . Not the oral traditions of dying mankind. I heard it through the legion of fathers grapevine, dying mankind.

Satan's first false prophet he choses the weaker vessel sent as a false apostle it was Eve. The father of lies adding to the word Then she as a false prophet deceived Adam and they both ate the fruit of death "adding to the living word of God" In that way Revelation is still the last chapter in the book of prophecy.

 

[Mr GLee]

Scriptures speak of a 3rd temple. Red heifers are required for a 3rd temple.

Required of God or men? Christ made the previous temple made by the hands as a will of dying mankind desolate by declaring it desolate . "Let it be desolate" and "It was gone like the wind" .

The true living temple has always been the believer. Christ in us yoked with him he sends us out to preach the good news .

 

[Josheb]

To reply...time will tell.

That is exactly right.

Not only does time tell.... but times has already told many times: there isn't one single modern futurust prediction that has ever come true. Not one. Time has told.

Just because you deemed the pre-cribbers are wrong doesn't make it so.

What makes it so is the 100% fail rate.

Basically you need to wake up...

ATTACK JOSHEB! ATTACK JOSHEB! I REFUSE TO DEAL WITH THE SUBSTANCE OF HIS ARGUMENT SO LET'S ATTACK HIM! ATACK! ATTACK! ATTACK! AD HOMINEM! DODGE THE POINT! CHANGE THE SUBJECT! RANT! LABEL! ACCUSE! ATTACK! ATTACK! ATTACK!

Under no circumstances have an intelligent cogent conversation with the premise in two or three years EVERYONE will know whether the red heifers mentioned in this article are relevant to end times. DO NOT WAKE UP AND LOOK AT THE SIGNS OF FAILED PREDICTION AFTER FAILED PREDICTION AFTER FAILED PREDICTION AFTER FAILED PREDICTION AFTER FAILED PREDICTION AFTER FAILED PREDICTION AFTER FAILED PREDICTION AFTER FAILED PREDICTION AFTER FAILED PREDICTION AFTER FAILED PREDICTION AFTER FAILED PREDICTION AFTER FAILED PREDICTION AFTER FAILED PREDICTION AFTER FAILED PREDICTION AFTER FAILED PREDICTION AFTER FAILED PREDICTION AFTER FAILED PREDICTION AFTER FAILED PREDICTION AFTER FAILED PREDICTION AFTER FAILED PREDICTION AFTER FAILED PREDICTION AFTER FAILED PREDICTION AFTER FAILED PREDICTION AFTER FAILED PREDICTION AFTER FAILED PREDICTION AFTER FAILED PREDICTION AFTER FAILED PREDICTION AFTER FAILED PREDICTION AFTER FAILED PREDICTION AFTER FAILED PREDICTION AFTER FAILED PREDICTION AFTER FAILED PREDICTION AFTER FAILED PREDICTION AFTER FAILED PREDICTION AFTER V FAILED PREDICTION AFTER FAILED PREDICTION AFTER FAILED PREDICTION AFTER FAILED PREDICTION AFTER PREDICTION.


100% fail rate is the sign of the times. Wake up! Practice what you preach and LOOK at it!

 

[CrowCross]

Yes the father of lies in every false prophet, false apostle .

.A legion of antichrists' (plural) deceived mankind, led by the father of lies, the lying spirit that works in false prophets, false apostles

Antichrists (another teaching authority) other than all things written in the law and prophesies. True prophecy (sola scriptura) . Not the oral traditions of dying mankind. I heard it through the legion of fathers grapevine, dying mankind.

Satan's first false prophet he choses the weaker vessel sent as a false apostle it was Eve. The father of lies adding to the word Then she as a false prophet deceived Adam and they both ate the fruit of death "adding to the living word of God" In that way Revelation is still the last chapter in the book of prophecy.

Was Adam there the whole time?

 

[CrowCross]

That is exactly right.

Not only does time tell.... but times has already told many times: there isn't one single modern futurust prediction that has ever come true. Not one. Time has told.

What makes it so is the 100% fail rate.

ATTACK JOSHEB! ATTACK JOSHEB! I REFUSE TO DEAL WITH THE SUBSTANCE OF HIS ARGUMENT SO LET'S ATTACK HIM! ATACK! ATTACK! ATTACK! AD HOMINEM! DODGE THE POINT! CHANGE THE SUBJECT! RANT! LABEL! ACCUSE! ATTACK! ATTACK! ATTACK!

Under no circumstances have an intelligent cogent conversation with the premise in two or three years EVERYONE will know whether the red heifers mentioned in this article are relevant to end times. DO NOT WAKE UP AND LOOK AT THE SIGNS OF FAILED PREDICTION AFTER FAILED PREDICTION AFTER FAILED PREDICTION AFTER FAILED PREDICTION AFTER FAILED PREDICTION AFTER FAILED PREDICTION AFTER FAILED PREDICTION AFTER FAILED PREDICTION AFTER FAILED PREDICTION AFTER FAILED PREDICTION AFTER FAILED PREDICTION AFTER FAILED PREDICTION AFTER FAILED PREDICTION AFTER FAILED PREDICTION AFTER FAILED PREDICTION AFTER FAILED PREDICTION AFTER FAILED PREDICTION AFTER FAILED PREDICTION AFTER FAILED PREDICTION AFTER FAILED PREDICTION AFTER FAILED PREDICTION AFTER FAILED PREDICTION AFTER FAILED PREDICTION AFTER FAILED PREDICTION AFTER FAILED PREDICTION AFTER FAILED PREDICTION AFTER FAILED PREDICTION AFTER FAILED PREDICTION AFTER FAILED PREDICTION AFTER FAILED PREDICTION AFTER FAILED PREDICTION AFTER FAILED PREDICTION AFTER FAILED PREDICTION AFTER FAILED PREDICTION AFTER V FAILED PREDICTION AFTER FAILED PREDICTION AFTER FAILED PREDICTION AFTER FAILED PREDICTION AFTER PREDICTION.


100% fail rate is the sign of the times. Wake up! Practice what you preach and LOOK at it!

Dude, get a grip!!!

 

[Mr GLee]

Was Adam there the whole time?

Adam the true prophet. God giving him the gift of prophecy spoke to him, he was to pass it down. Satan knowing Eve the weaker vessel. Not spoken directly from God added to the word she touched they both ate. Both deceived by the same false prophet Satan.

You could say picture of a husband and wife the priesthood of believers. Like Moses and Aaron. Moses like God declaring prophecy. Like Adam declaring prophecy for the priestess Eve to preach. Eve preached a false gospel.

Exodus 7:1-3King James Version7 And the Lord said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet. Thou shalt speak all that I command thee: and Aaron thy brother shall speak unto Pharaoh, that he send the children of Israel out of his land.

 

[Josheb]

Dude, get a grip!!!

Dude....

Keep the posts about the posts, not the posters!​

time will tell.

Yes, it will.

I believe the red heffer has to be between 1 and 3 years old.

That is not much time, especially since all the cows pictured in that article look to already be at least 1-2 years old.


We ALL will, therefore, know what time has told within a very short time. It will not matter whether a person is Premil, Amil, Post mil, Idealist, etc. Regardless of one's eschatological pov, within a year or two we will ALL know whether that article is eschatologically salient or worthless. We'll ALL know whether those defending this particular red heifer set of claims were correct or not.

If you can stick to those facts, then topical contribution is invited. Otherwise....

Dude, get a grip!!!

....is obnoxious.

Keep the posts about the posts, not the posters!​

.

 

[CrowCross]

Dude....

Keep the posts about the posts, not the posters!​

Yes, it will.

That is not much time, especially since all the cows pictured in that article look to already be at least 1-2 years old.


We ALL will, therefore, know what time has told within a very short time. It will not matter whether a person is Premil, Amil, Post mil, Idealist, etc. Regardless of one's eschatological pov, within a year or two we will ALL know whether that article is eschatologically salient or worthless. We'll ALL know whether those defending this particular red heifer set of claims were correct or not.

If you can stick to those facts, then topical contribution is invited. Otherwise....

....is obnoxious.

Keep the posts about the posts, not the posters!​

.

Dude, You haven't gotten a grip on yourself yet...

The red heifer isn't about the rapture....it's about the temple.

They have the heifer...and if you've seen the news they even have an alter built. Here, read up on it. Looka at the picture of the alter. The article is from 3-21-24

This is FACT. It's really happening......unless the Muslims blow up the alter or kill the cows.

 

[Josheb]

This is FACT. It's really happening......unless the Muslims blow up the alter or kill the cows.

So what?

So what if some Jews raise red heifers?
So what if some Jews sacrifice a red heifer to consecrate some ground?
So what if another temple of stone is built on the red-heifer-consecrated ground?
So what?
What should be thought of the Middle East Eye's article if we come back in two or three years, and nothing has happened?


The following question was asked at the beginning of this thread, and it's been ignored.

Where scripture indicates sacrifices to be reinstated as you suggest?

 

[Josheb]

There is no scripture in the New Testament explicitly stating anything about red heifers.

Scriptures speak of a 3rd temple. Red heifers are required for a 3rd temple.

the scripture speaks of a temple in which the abomination of desolation will occur when the anti-christ declares himself to be God.

I did not ask for a "speaks of" verse. I asked for a verse that explicitly states another temple of stone will be built. I did not ask for any scripture that could be read inferentially to say something it does not actually stated.


There were two temples standing at the time the verses mentioning the abomination of desolation (Mt. 24:15), the antichrist (John's epistles) and someone declaring himself God (2 Thes. 2:4). 2 Thes. 2:4 states the lawless man will display himself as God, not the AoD or the antichrist. NONE of those verse explicitly state another temple of stone will be built.

Try it again: There is not a single verse in the entire Bible explicitly stating anything about red heifers. There is also not a single verse in the entire Bible explicitly stating another temple of stone will ever be built.