Trinity: The Divinity of Jesus

[Mr GLee]

MOD EDIT: This discussion originated in a thread that was not about trinitarian doctrine. A warning was issued but not heeded. Instead of deleting all offending posts, I moved the entire discussion to a relevant and more appropriate forum where it may continue, since there clearly was interest in the subject. I am not sure where the discussion started but I gathered it was this response by Mr GLee to CrowCross. Please forgive any erroneous implications if this was not the starting point, but otherwise carry on discussing this topic.

yes, Jesus made the heavens.....you need to explain the "From another part of the Earth" portion of your post.

The Son of Man Jesus did not create. . cannot . no power (impossible)

Of his own dying flesh, he declares it profits for zero, nada

He was created . . born of women. (let there be dust)

Power to rise came at the resurrection, the place of power. No power is reckoned from the fleshly birth.

Marvel not Jesus was born again like all sons of God

Be careful some worship the dying flesh and blood of the Son of man Jesus and not the Almighty Father. . the one eternal Spirit

God is not a Jewish man as King of kings Lord of lords. Thats the goal of the father of lies to deceive the whole world that eternal God is a Jewish man

 

[CrowCross]

The Son of Man Jesus did not create. . cannot . no power (impossible)

The pre-incarnate Jesus certainly did create.

Of his own dying flesh, he declares it profits for zero, nada

He was created . . born of women. (let there be dust)

The Word who was with God and was God....became flesh.

Power to rise came at the resurrection, the place of power. No power is reckoned from the fleshly birth.

Marvel not Jesus was born again like all sons of God

Jesus never sinned and had no need to be "born again". It is because of Jesus that we can be born again.

Be careful some worship the dying flesh and blood of the Son of man Jesus and not the Almighty Father. . the one eternal Spirit

The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are the same eternal Spirit seen in 3 persons.

God is not a Jewish man as King of kings Lord of lords. Thats the goal of the father of lies to deceive the whole world that eternal God is a Jewish man

Jesus who in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but Jesus emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.

 

[CrowCross]

Jesus is the Fathers-IMAGE--that is how they see the Father-An IMAGE is NEVER the real thing.
All who serve the true God Jehovah do it all in his name, from Jesus on down.

Jesus who in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but Jesus emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.

 

[Eleanor]

Jesus who in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but Jesus emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.

It's not complicated.

One either believes the word of God written. . .or they don't, as in post #245.

 

[Mr GLee]

The pre-incarnate Jesus certainly did create.

The Word who was with God and was God....became flesh.

Jesus never sinned and had no need to be "born again". It is because of Jesus that we can be born again.

The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are the same eternal Spirit seen in 3 persons.

Jesus who in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but Jesus emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.

Pre-incarnate? The pre-existing flesh that he used to create the dying flesh of the Son of man Jesus ?

Yes, the living words Dust "let there be flesh" and it was God breathed alone good.

Yes, with from God (Emanual) the powerful "let there be" word.

God pronounces prophecies living words he is not one

 

[Viking123]

Jesus who in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but Jesus emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.

Right, he cannot count equality with God as something to be grasped.

 

[Josheb]

Right, he cannot count equality with God as something to be grasped.

That's NOT what it states. It states he did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, thereby implying he could have considered it but did not. By extension, if he could have considered it then it must have been a reasonable and rational consideration because if it was irrational and unreasonable that would instantly disqualify him as the prefect sacrifice.


Btw, how did you two get so far afield of the op?

 

[CrowCross]

Right, he cannot count equality with God as something to be grasped.

Yup, and Christ Jesus didn't grasp on to it....hence the kenosis.
Did they teach you the meaning of the kenosis?

 

[Mr GLee]

That's NOT what it states. It states he did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, thereby implying he could have considered it but did not. By extension, if he could have considered it then it must have been a reasonable and rational consideration because if it was irrational and unreasonable that would instantly disqualify him as the prefect sacrifice.


Btw, how did you two get so far afield of the op?

It would seem there was nothing to consider. God is not dying mankind a creation

 

[David Lamb]

It would seem there was nothing to consider. God is not dying mankind a creation

You keep saying this, but the bible says that Jesus Christ is fully God and fully Man.

 

[Mr GLee]

You keep saying this, but the bible says that Jesus Christ is fully God and fully Man.

Hi thanks not a salvation issue. God does all the saving.

Many teach that. In a hope of creating a Trinty. Needed to support a queen mother in heaven that the Jews desiring his and hers gods passed down to the Catholic fathers.

Queen Mother,. . . . Father (Pope dying mankind on earth ).. . . . Son limbo suffering mankind.

Same ones that have no spiritual unseen understanding, that refuse to obey the loving commandment. . to call no man (dying mankind ) Holy Father, Holy See. etc

One is our Abba in heaven He reigns with and in his children on earth

Matthew 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

The dynamic duo . Two is the one witness God not seen has spoken.

"Let there be "the invisible becomes visible. the law of faith as Power .And "it was God alone good"

 

[David Lamb]

Hi thanks not a salvation issue. God does all the saving.

Many teach that. In a hope of creating a Trinty. Needed to support a queen mother in heaven that the Jews desiring his and hers gods passed down to the Catholic fathers.

Queen Mother,. . . . Father (Pope dying mankind on earth ).. . . . Son limbo suffering mankind.

Same ones that have no spiritual unseen understanding, that refuse to obey the loving commandment. . to call no man (dying mankind ) Holy Father, Holy See. etc

One is our Abba in heaven He reigns with and in his children on earth

Matthew 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

The dynamic duo . Two is the one witness God not seen has spoken.

"Let there be "the invisible becomes visible. the law of faith as Power .And "it was God alone good"

We don't need to create a Trinity, because the bible already has it: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. We have it right from Creation, with God the Father creating, through His Son, as we see John 1:3:

“All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.” (Joh 1:3 NKJV)

The Holy Spirit was there, too:

“The earth was without form, and void; and darkness [was] on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.” (Ge 1:2 NKJV)

I don't know why you mention a queen mother in heaven or the pope. There are plenty of people who, like me, believe that God is three in one, a Trinity, who certainly aren't Roman Catholics, and don't believe in things like having a pope, or a queen in heaven. All the historical protestant confessions of faith include the Trinity. For instance the 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith includes this paragraph about the Trinity:

"In this divine and infinite Being there are three subsistences, the Father, the Word or Son, and Holy Spirit, of one substance, power, and eternity, each having the whole divine essence, yet the essence undivided: the Father is of none, neither begotten nor proceeding; the Son is eternally begotten of the Father; the Holy Spirit proceeding from the Father and the Son; all infinite, without beginning, therefore but one God, who is not to be divided in nature and being, but distinguished by several peculiar relative properties and personal relations; which doctrine of the Trinity is the foundation of all our communion with God, and comfortable dependence on Him.

---

27 1 John 5:7; Matt. 28:19; 2 Cor. 13:14
28 Exod. 3:14; John 14:11; I Cor. 8:6
29 John 1:14,18
30 John 15:26; Gal. 4:6

You seem to believe that God is a Duo, not a Trinity, which seems to go against biblical and Christian teaching.

 

[Mr GLee]

We don't need to create a Trinity, because the bible already has it: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. We have it right from Creation, with God the Father creating, through His Son, as we see John 1:3:

Hi Thanks

Though his living abiding words the father put on the tongue of his prophet Jesus the Son of man.

It would depend on how one counts.

(1) The Holy Spirit of the Father (Christ) worked in the (2) son of man Jesus

The dynamic duo or the (1) let there be and (2) it was God good.

 

[David Lamb]

Hi Thanks

Though his living abiding words the father put on the tongue of his prophet Jesus the Son of man.

It would depend on how one counts.

(1) The Holy Spirit of the Father (Christ) worked in the (2) son of man Jesus

The dynamic duo or the (1) let there be and (2) it was God good.

You say "(1) The Holy Spirit of the Father (Christ) worked in the Son of man Jesus." I see two things wrong with that. The Holy Spirit is not Christ. Roman 8: 11 says:

“But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.” (Ro 8:11 NKJV)

Jesus Christ is not only the Son of Man, He is also the Son of God. The angel said to Mary:

“And the angel answered and said to her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God.” (Lu 1:35 NKJV)

So that is 3: One, God the Father, Two, God the Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, and Three, the Holy Spirit.

If you say that it is only a duo, you must believe that one of those three (Father, Son or Holy Spirit) is not truly God.

 

[makesends]

The Son of Man Jesus did not create. . cannot . no power (impossible)

Of his own dying flesh, he declares it profits for zero, nada

He was created . . born of women. (let there be dust)

Power to rise came at the resurrection, the place of power. No power is reckoned from the fleshly birth.

Marvel not Jesus was born again like all sons of God

Be careful some worship the dying flesh and blood of the Son of man Jesus and not the Almighty Father. . the one eternal Spirit

God is not a Jewish man as King of kings Lord of lords. Thats the goal of the father of lies to deceive the whole world that eternal God is a Jewish man

Jesus had no need to be born again.

I'm not sure I'm right in my understanding of what you believe, but the fact that he 'put off' his 'God-ness' to be a man like us, does not imply that he needed to be born again like us. 'To be 100% man' does not mean 'to be mere man'.

 

[Mr GLee]

The pre-incarnate Jesus certainly did create.

Before dying incarnate "The flesh was good" That work came from the living word of God . "let there Faithfully be flesh".

Before and the dry land was good .Came "let there be dry land"

The law of faith .Power) .Let there be. . . . .

Things seen follow the unseen eternal

In that way be careful of the lying signs to wonder, wonder, wonder after as if true prophecy .Satan working over time today

 

[Eleanor]

Jesus is the Fathers-IMAGE--that is how they see the Father-An IMAGE is NEVER the real thing.
All who serve the true God Jehovah do it all in his name, from Jesus on down.

And yet God has one name (singular), Father, Son, Holy Spirit (Mt 28:19).

 

[David Lamb]

The Son of Man Jesus did not create. . cannot . no power (impossible)

Of his own dying flesh, he declares it profits for zero, nada

He was created . . born of women. (let there be dust)

Power to rise came at the resurrection, the place of power. No power is reckoned from the fleshly birth.

Marvel not Jesus was born again like all sons of God

Be careful some worship the dying flesh and blood of the Son of man Jesus and not the Almighty Father. . the one eternal Spirit

God is not a Jewish man as King of kings Lord of lords. Thats the goal of the father of lies to deceive the whole world that eternal God is a Jewish man

Jesus Christ certainly had power. All things were created through Him. He certainly was not created. And if His power only began at His resurrection, how was He able to perform so many miracles, including healing, turning water into wine, and even raising the dead? Jesus certainly was not born again. We need to be born again because of sin, but He had no sin:

“For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin.” (Heb 4:15 NKJV)

I don't think anybody worships His dying flesh, as you say. They are grateful for His death, for it is He Who bore our sins in His own body on the tree, as Peter puts it. It is not wrong to worship Jesus Christ. The wise men worshipped Him when He was just a toddler:

“And when they had come into the house, they saw the young Child with Mary His mother, and fell down and worshiped Him. And when they had opened their treasures, they presented gifts to Him: gold, frankincense, and myrrh.” (Mt 2:11 NKJV)

It just is not biblical to say that Jesus Christ is not God, or that He was merely a Jewish man.

 

[JIM]

Jesus Christ certainly had power. All things were created through Him. He certainly was not created. And if His power only began at His resurrection, how was He able to perform so many miracles, including healing, turning water into wine, and even raising the dead? Jesus certainly was not born again. We need to be born again because of sin, but He had no sin:

“For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin.” (Heb 4:15 NKJV)

I don't think anybody worships His dying flesh, as you say. They are grateful for His death, for it is He Who bore our sins in His own body on the tree, as Peter puts it. It is not wrong to worship Jesus Christ. The wise men worshipped Him when He was just a toddler:

“And when they had come into the house, they saw the young Child with Mary His mother, and fell down and worshiped Him. And when they had opened their treasures, they presented gifts to Him: gold, frankincense, and myrrh.” (Mt 2:11 NKJV)

It just is not biblical to say that Jesus Christ is not God, or that He was merely a Jewish man.

I think most theologians hold that Jesus worked signs, wonders and miracles by the power of the Holy Spirit who descended upon Him at His baptism.

 

[David Lamb]

I think most theologians hold that Jesus worked signs, wonders and miracles by the power of the Holy Spirit who descended upon Him at His baptism.

The Holy Spirit is sometimes called "the spirit of Christ" in the bible, so I don't think saying that it was the power of the Holy Spirit takes away from the power or deity of Christ.