"The Word Became Flesh"

[Runningman]

Here we go again!

Any verse of scripture that opposes my little petty “pet” doctrine ain’t sacred scripture or the word of God!

1 Jn 5:7
1 tim 3:16
Not to mention Mk 16:16 and Matt 28;19!!!

Classic!

There are a many number of verses that mean Jesus isn't God in the flesh. Just one of the best ones is 1 Timothy 3:16, but there is also Philippians 2:7:

7but emptied Himself,
taking the form of a servant,
being made in human likeness.

Many famous Trinitarian commentators say that what Jesus emptied himself of was some or all of his divine power, rights, and/or passions. That would mean he isn't God in the flesh.

Even after being taken to heaven, people kept calling him a man. If the early Christian on Jesus was that he was either God in the flesh, or later became God again after being resurrected then calling God a man would man would be an ear short of blasphemy. Case in point, when you pray do you call God a man or do you call God as God? No Christian I have ever spoken to prays addressing a man, yet not only did they keep on calling Jesus a man after he went to heaven, no one even prayed to him. Praying to Jesus and worshipping Jesus isn't a Biblical doctrine. No one ever taught any such things, no commandment by God to do such, etc.

1 Timothy 2
5For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

 

[Runningman]

What did it say instead and prove it?

It said this instead. This is a photograph of the altered manuscript. You can read any number of commentators of authority on the matter who confirm this regarding 1 Timothy 3:16. The best known manuscripts say "he was manifested in the flesh" then someone altered it later. Modern Bibles don't say "God was manifest in the flesh." What happened is a Trinitarian came along later, found this verse, and said "no!" and altered Paul's letter in favor of heresy.

 

[grace2]

It said this instead. This is a photograph of the altered manuscript. You can read any number of commentators of authority on the matter who confirm this regarding 1 Timothy 3:16. The best known manuscripts say "he was manifested in the flesh" then someone altered it later. Modern Bibles don't say "God was manifest in the flesh." What happened is a Trinitarian came along later, found this verse, and said "no!" and altered Paul's letter in favor of heresy.

View attachment 808

brilliant!!!!!!

I wonder what kind of excuse they come up with this time.

 

[Runningman]

brilliant!!!!!!

Yeah, we got lucky to have this because most of the proof of alterations to the Bible by Trinitarians have been lost to time and history, but we have this one.

 

[grace2]

Yeah, we got lucky to have this because most of the proof of alterations to the Bible by Trinitarians have been lost to time and history, but we have this one.

All this information will give people who are already in confusion by trins twisted version of a false god hopefully.

Christians who have a solid faith in God and Jesus don't need this kind of knowledge though.

They just will just skip all kind of nonsense that Trins have been spreading.

 

[Arial]

It said this instead. This is a photograph of the altered manuscript. You can read any number of commentators of authority on the matter who confirm this regarding 1 Timothy 3:16. The best known manuscripts say "he was manifested in the flesh" then someone altered it later. Modern Bibles don't say "God was manifest in the flesh." What happened is a Trinitarian came along later, found this verse, and said "no!" and altered Paul's letter in favor of heresy.

View attachment 808

What exactly is your point?
New International Version
Beyond all question, the mystery from which true godliness springs is great: He appeared in the flesh, was vindicated by the Spirit, was seen by angels, was preached among the nations, was believed on in the world, was taken up in glory.

New Living Translation
Without question, this is the great mystery of our faith: Christ was revealed in a human body and vindicated by the Spirit. He was seen by angels and announced to the nations. He was believed in throughout the world and taken to heaven in glory.


English Standard Version
Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated by the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory.

Berean Standard Bible
By common confession, the mystery of godliness is great: He appeared in the flesh, was vindicated by the Spirit, was seen by angels, was proclaimed among the nations, was believed in throughout the world, was taken up in glory.



New King James Version
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.

New American Standard Bible
Beyond question, great is the mystery of godliness: He who was revealed in the flesh, Was vindicated in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Proclaimed among the nations, Believed on in the world, Taken up in glory.




Amplified Bible
And great, we confess, is the mystery [the hidden truth] of godliness: He (Jesus Christ) who was revealed in human flesh, Was justified and vindicated in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the nations, Believed on in the world, Taken up in glory.

Christian Standard Bible
And most certainly, the mystery of godliness is great: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated in the Spirit, seen by angels, preached among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory.

 

[Mr GLee]

There are a many number of verses that mean Jesus isn't God in the flesh. Just one of the best ones is 1 Timothy 3:16, but there is also Philippians 2:7:

7but emptied Himself,
taking the form of a servant,
being made in human likeness.

Many famous Trinitarian commentators say that what Jesus emptied himself of was some or all of his divine power, rights, and/or passions. That would mean he isn't God in the flesh.

Even after being taken to heaven, people kept calling him a man. If the early Christian on Jesus was that he was either God in the flesh, or later became God again after being resurrected then calling God a man would man would be an ear short of blasphemy. Case in point, when you pray do you call God a man or do you call God as God? No Christian I have ever spoken to prays addressing a man, yet not only did they keep on calling Jesus a man after he went to heaven, no one even prayed to him. Praying to Jesus and worshipping Jesus isn't a Biblical doctrine. No one ever taught any such things, no commandment by God to do such, etc.

1 Timothy 2
5For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

Amen. Christ the Holy Spirit of God worked in the Son of man as the first born again of many sons of God (Christians)

Jesus the Son of man our brother in the lord . The Father worked in him pouring out His eternal Spirit on the dying flesh of Son of man Jesus . To both reveal his loving will and empowering dying mankind to perform it to His good pleasure. Two working as one empowered by one .The invisible head the Father.... God.

The kind of food the disciples knew not of the hidden manna (unseen will) the daily bread of his loving will .Yoked with Christ it can make our daily sufferings lighter with a promise beyond what the eyes see the temporal.

John 4:33-35King James Version33 Therefore said the disciples one to another, Hath any man brought him ought to eat? Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.

There is always a need for milk with the meat .Milk of the word builds strong bones of faith (lol)

1 Peter 2:2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby: If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious

Some did know Christ the power of the Holy Spirit who yoked with worked in the Son of man Jesus . Both having a mutual faith of Christ as it is written The Son of Man Jesus our brother in the lord left to never to return . We give glory to the unseen head of the church of heavenly Holy Father He our confidence will never leave us .


2 Corinthians 5: 16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

God is not a man .

 

[grace2]

What exactly is your point?
New International Version
Beyond all question, the mystery from which true godliness springs is great: He appeared in the flesh, was vindicated by the Spirit, was seen by angels, was preached among the nations, was believed on in the world, was taken up in glory.

New Living Translation
Without question, this is the great mystery of our faith: Christ was revealed in a human body and vindicated by the Spirit. He was seen by angels and announced to the nations. He was believed in throughout the world and taken to heaven in glory.


English Standard Version
Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated by the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory.

Berean Standard Bible
By common confession, the mystery of godliness is great: He appeared in the flesh, was vindicated by the Spirit, was seen by angels, was proclaimed among the nations, was believed in throughout the world, was taken up in glory.



New King James Version
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.

New American Standard Bible
Beyond question, great is the mystery of godliness: He who was revealed in the flesh, Was vindicated in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Proclaimed among the nations, Believed on in the world, Taken up in glory.




Amplified Bible
And great, we confess, is the mystery [the hidden truth] of godliness: He (Jesus Christ) who was revealed in human flesh, Was justified and vindicated in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the nations, Believed on in the world, Taken up in glory.

Christian Standard Bible
And most certainly, the mystery of godliness is great: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated in the Spirit, seen by angels, preached among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory.

I merely saying the Father sent Jesus. Should I LOL as you do too?

 

[Mr GLee]

New International Version
Beyond all question, the mystery from which true godliness springs is great: He appeared in the flesh, was vindicated by the Spirit, was seen by angels, was preached among the nations, was believed on in the world, was taken up in glory.

I would offer. The two little words . "In" towards Him not seen and "of" coming from dying mankind seen (oral tradition)

My paraphrase. . Beyond all question, the mystery from which true godliness springs is great: He appeared "in" the dying flesh, ( Not "of" coming from the dying flesh) , was vindicated by the Spirit not "of" dying flesh , was seen by messengers , was preached among the nations, was believed on in the world, was taken up in glory.

Philippians 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by His faithful labor of love.

 

[Runningman]

What exactly is your point?
New International Version
Beyond all question, the mystery from which true godliness springs is great: He appeared in the flesh, was vindicated by the Spirit, was seen by angels, was preached among the nations, was believed on in the world, was taken up in glory.

New Living Translation
Without question, this is the great mystery of our faith: Christ was revealed in a human body and vindicated by the Spirit. He was seen by angels and announced to the nations. He was believed in throughout the world and taken to heaven in glory.


English Standard Version
Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated by the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory.

Berean Standard Bible
By common confession, the mystery of godliness is great: He appeared in the flesh, was vindicated by the Spirit, was seen by angels, was proclaimed among the nations, was believed in throughout the world, was taken up in glory.



New King James Version
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.

New American Standard Bible
Beyond question, great is the mystery of godliness: He who was revealed in the flesh, Was vindicated in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Proclaimed among the nations, Believed on in the world, Taken up in glory.




Amplified Bible
And great, we confess, is the mystery [the hidden truth] of godliness: He (Jesus Christ) who was revealed in human flesh, Was justified and vindicated in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the nations, Believed on in the world, Taken up in glory.

Christian Standard Bible
And most certainly, the mystery of godliness is great: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated in the Spirit, seen by angels, preached among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory.

Where was he at before coming in the flesh? Look around, he only existed in prophecy in the Old Testament and by the time Paul was writing his letters he was already taken to heaven. From a normal person's perspective, Paul was talking about someone who was either long gone or possibly never existed.

They had never even met the Jesus that Paul was going around preaching about. Yet, Paul plainly stated that he appeared "in the flesh" because it's an idiom that means in real life, in person, face to face, etc. You get the idea. As opposed to being just a story, Paul was saying Jesus was a real man.

John said what Paul was saying. Those who say God came in the flesh and not Jesus Christ came in the flesh are deceivers.

2 John 1
7For many deceivers have gone out into the world, refusing to confess the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.

 

[Arial]

I merely saying the Father sent Jesus. Should I LOL as you do too?

It says Jesus came in the flesh. If He came in the flesh or in other passages, "as one of us," or "in the likeness of man," does that not indicate that He was not flesh before He came, or not in the likeness of man before He came. Especially when we have in John 17 that He returned to where He was before with the Father?

Where was he at before coming in the flesh? Look around, he only existed in prophecy in the Old Testament and by the time Paul was writing his letters he was already taken to heaven. From a normal person's perspective, Paul was talking about someone who was either long gone or possibly never existed.

Saying that He only existed in prophecy in the OT is simply a biased presumption. He did not exist in the flesh in the OT, and that does not mean that He didn't exist. And all the other scriptures, such as John 1,clearly show that He did preexist, must be tampered with in order to fit the presupposition that He didn't. But you do realize don't you, that the other writers of the NT were eyewitnesses to His ascension?

They had never even met the Jesus that Paul was going around preaching about. Yet, Paul plainly stated that he appeared "in the flesh" because it's an idiom that means in real life, in person, face to face, etc. You get the idea. As opposed to being just a story, Paul was saying Jesus was a real man.

Some of them had, but Paul was not the only one preaching the good news, and the other apostles, had spent time with Him, were witnesses of His crucifixion and of His resurrection, and of His ascension. Jesus was a real man. What trinitarian has ever denied that?

Those who say God came in the flesh and not Jesus Christ came in the flesh are deceivers.

The only translation that I found (and I quoted several of them) that translate that scripture as God came in the flesh, are the KJV and the NKV. But the passage itself indicates that something more is meant by Jesus coming in the flesh, other than that He was a real man. It was obvious He was a man. There was no need to simply point out the obvious.

 

[donadams]

There are a many number of verses that mean Jesus isn't God in the flesh. Just one of the best ones is 1 Timothy 3:16, but there is also Philippians 2:7:

7but emptied Himself,
taking the form of a servant,
being made in human likeness.

Many famous Trinitarian commentators say that what Jesus emptied himself of was some or all of his divine power, rights, and/or passions. That would mean he isn't God in the flesh.

Even after being taken to heaven, people kept calling him a man. If the early Christian on Jesus was that he was either God in the flesh, or later became God again after being resurrected then calling God a man would man would be an ear short of blasphemy. Case in point, when you pray do you call God a man or do you call God as God? No Christian I have ever spoken to prays addressing a man, yet not only did they keep on calling Jesus a man after he went to heaven, no one even prayed to him. Praying to Jesus and worshipping Jesus isn't a Biblical doctrine. No one ever taught any such things, no commandment by God to do such, etc.

1 Timothy 2
5For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

He both true God and true man so he can always be called a man!

No worshipped?

Really

Only God may lawfully receive adoration and worship!

Heb 1:6 worship
Matt 2:11 worshipped him
Matt 4:10 worship
Matt 8:2 worshipped
Matt 9:18 worshipped
Matt 14:33 worshipped
Matt 15:25 worshipped
John 9:38 worshipped

 

[Mr GLee]

He both true God and true man so he can always be called a man!

How can the Faithfull Creator ("let there be" and" it was God alone good" The same god who breathes his eternal Spirit into the clay, be the Potter ? That's silly.

Isaiah 29:16 Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?

why give the power of the invisible head to the vlay and not the poter (the invible head

. Where is the invisible Father (Potter) in the Catholic doctrines of men the CCC law of the legion of fathers ?


Is he asleep ? vacation? sabbatical?

 

[Runningman]

He both true God and true man so he can always be called a man!

No worshipped?

Really

Only God may lawfully receive adoration and worship!

Heb 1:6 worship
Matt 2:11 worshipped him
Matt 4:10 worship
Matt 8:2 worshipped
Matt 9:18 worshipped
Matt 14:33 worshipped
Matt 15:25 worshipped
John 9:38 worshipped

Those verses can be rightly translated as a bowing down to, but the kind of worship Jesus taught about was of the order of spirit and truth and he taught that those who worship the Father should do so in spirit and truth. Jesus only taught about worshipping the Father, not himself. We Christians follow Jesus' teachings. Bowing isn't spirit and truth worship.

John 4
23But a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth, for the Father is seeking such as these to worship Him. 24God is Spirit, and His worshipers must worship Him in spirit and in truth.”

 

[donadams]

Those verses can be rightly translated as a bowing down to, but the kind of worship Jesus taught about was of the order of spirit and truth and he taught that those who worship the Father should do so in spirit and truth. Jesus only taught about worshipping the Father, not himself. We Christians follow Jesus' teachings. Bowing isn't spirit and truth worship.

John 4
23But a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth, for the Father is seeking such as these to worship Him. 24God is Spirit, and His worshipers must worship Him in spirit and in truth.”

No it means worship adoration

 

[Mr GLee]

Those verses can be rightly translated as a bowing down to, but the kind of worship Jesus taught about was of the order of spirit and truth and he taught that those who worship the Father should do so in spirit and truth. Jesus only taught about worshipping the Father, not himself. We Christians follow Jesus' teachings. Bowing isn't spirit and truth worship.

John 4
23But a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth, for the Father is seeking such as these to worship Him. 24God is Spirit, and His worshipers must worship Him in spirit and in truth.”

Amen Spirit (not seen) revealing His power to that which is seen dying unredeemed mankind . The Holy Spirit is Way the Truth and Spirit of new life .. .as his Spirit works with us we miraculously can worship . without it no man could.

The Holy Spirit as a labor of His love pours out his mighty Spirit on dying flesh and blood. With the promise beyond the grave of a new body that will never die or grow old.

The difficulty is the use of the word Father as a invisible head . Lucifer's goal is that mankind seek after earthly fathers dying mankind, rather the living words as they are written in the law and prophets (sola scriptura)

Our Holy Father works in the heart of those born again to both (the gospel key) give them the daily bread or hidden manna. as meat (spiritual food) the disciples know not of. Jesu ate or did the will not just hear but both. . hear to do

Much has to do with how the word apostles is defined. Changing the meaning one word an change the authorship of the whole believers are warned not to violate that law (Deuteronomy 4:2 )

It would be like my wife sending out her husband as apostle with a writen list not to add to or subtract from .sends out her apostle on a mission to to the supermarket , he finishes and he get a rewards for his labor of love 2 peanut butter cookies . Apostles simply messengers sent with the good news .

Therefore the Father finishing all the work of pouring out his Spirit life in jeapordy of his own, yoked with the Son of man Jesus or any man born agin his daily burden sufferings the pangs of hell made lighter . .


John 4:33-35King James Version33 Therefore said the disciples one to another, Hath any man brought him ought to eat?Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.


John 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

The "word" isn't a he but an it throughout 99% of the New Testament and all o the Old Testament. There is scarcely a direct reference to the "word" being a he, aside from John 1. This makes John 1 anomalous.

The "word" is demonstrably not Jesus where Jesus and the word are talked about in the same context. See 1 John 1:1-3. Revelation 1:2, 9, Revelation 20:4.

The word we are talking about is the Greek word logos and it's used throughout the New Testament and Septuagint. Logos doesn't mean Jesus or God or Son, etc. It refers to words, speaking, etc. Words aren't a literal person. This is called personification of a non-person thing. For example, a non-person thing like wisdom isn't a literal woman, contrary to what Proverbs 8 & 9 say.

This is why 1 John 1:1-3 says that in the beginning the Word of Life was an it, a thing, that manifested in a man. That means Jesus isn't literally the word of God, but rather the word of God was in him. The pre-existence of Jesus was in the foreknowledge of God, hence the "word" became flesh.

Furthermore, John demonstrably didn't even believe Jesus is God along with the rest of the disciples. In Acts 4:23-27, John and Peter prayed together to the Sovereign Lord, the Father, while referring to Jesus as His servant.

The Greek words of John 1:1 support the word being either a god or something godly in contradistinction to the definitive God also referenced in the same verse.

Jesus as a pre-existent being known as "God the Word" isn't a biblically viable doctrine. Trinitarians tried to bamboozle us many years ago, but they were caught red handed. One of the most famous forgeries of the New Testament, known as the Comma Johanneum, found in what was previously 1 John 5:7 has been removed from mostly all modern Bibles.

Word games - ignored.

 

[Mr GLee]

Word games - ignored.

Whose words as a game ?

 

[Mr GLee]

Christ not the Father who ascended into heaven!

Which Holy Father has not ascended as the unseen head of the church?. . Christ? Or the daysman the Pope another teaching master not found in the Bible . Found in the legion of fathers. . book of law (CCC) thier sacred "I heard it through the grave vine oral tradition of dying mankind" ?

Every person in every religion protects the source of faith they feel working in them Believers defend the armor of God the sword of the living word it powerfully defends us. Others, a legion of fathers as disembodied familiar spirits gods .Men and woman gods in the likeness of dying mankind.


Which source of faith today sola scriptura or sola CCC traditons called by themselves sacred of I heard it through the legion of fathers grape vine dying mankind?

 

[Brakelite]

I believe that the confusion and disparity between the various views of the Godhead is the failure to recognise the fullness of what the apostle John is actually saying in the first verse of his gospel.
KJV John 1:1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The key I believe is to be understood when we consider, the Word was with God. So not only was the Word God, but was also with God. Understanding the harmony between those statements concerning the Word, goes a long way toward understanding the concept of the Godhead.
In much the same way as John described Christ, so too did Paul the apostle (this was almost 40 years prior to John writing his gospel). He also said that the preexistent Christ was God and was with God. Whilst everything that the apostle wrote in this respect cannot be quoted here, the following will suffice as a summary.
Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.” Philippians 2:5-8
Just a cursory look at this Scripture tells us that Christ, in His pre-existence, was “in the form of God”. It also tells us that He was “equal with God”. Here again is the very same problem. It is how Christians can profess two divine personalities to be God. Christ being God manifest in the flesh is indeed the mystery of mysteries. It is also the faith of Christianity. This though does not mean that this is something that cannot be reasonably understood. I say this because through a prayerful study of the Scriptures, it must be said that each sincere seeker of truth can come to an understanding of this one aspect of the Christian faith that sets it aside from all the other religions of the world. This is that in the person of His beloved Son, our God became flesh and gave His life as atonement for sin for every person that has ever lived. This is the ongoing message of Christianity.

That God became flesh, dwelt amongst us and died, and was resurrected for our eternal redemption, is indeed the message of Christianity but never must it be thought that it was the personage of God the Father that came to earth. It was the Word of God (the Son of God) who became incarnate. This was God in the person of His Son. As we noted above, John the gospel writer wrote at the beginning of what is termed the prologue to his gospel (John 1:1-18)
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” John 1:1
He later went on to say
“And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.” John 1:14
The majority of Christians would agree that the personality referred to here in John 1:1 as the “God” whom the Word was with - is God the Father. In other words, most Christians would accept that it was not God the Father that became flesh but “the Word”. This shows us that “the Word” and the “God” (whom the Word was with) are two separate personalities. Yet as we have already noted, the mystery (and the problem) is that they are both designated God.

I believe the above is the basis of understanding the Godhead, and coming to terms with the mystery of how two personalities can both be God.

Two personalities, and both God. Yet scripture declares there is only one God. Is this a contradiction? I believe not, because scripture is clear as to Who that one God is.

KJV 1 Corinthians 8:6
6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

As one writer put it...
“A word of caution may be necessary here. Let no one imagine that we would exalt Christ at the expense of the Father or would ignore the Father. That cannot be, for their interests are one. We honor the Father in honoring the Son".

God begotten. Not a begotten god.
At the height of the 4th century Arian controversy, the Bishop of Alexandria wrote a letter to the Bishop of Constantinople. It was written to deny what he said were the beliefs of the heretics. It was also as an explanation of his and his follower’s beliefs. Throughout his letter, Alexander maintains that the Scriptures say, also that the apostolic Church had always taught, that the Father alone is unbegotten and that the Son is begotten of the Father. This confirms that what Ignatius wrote regarding a begotten Christ was not a heretical viewpoint but was the standard faith of early Christianity. Whilst there is far too much in Alexander’s letter to be quoted here, in summary he wrote:

“We have learnt that the Son is immutable and unchangeable, all-sufficient and perfect, like the Father, lacking only His “unbegotten.” He is the exact and precisely similar image of His Father. For it is clear that the image fully contains everything by which the greater likeness exists, as the Lord taught us when He said, ‘My Father is greater than I.” (The ecclesiastical history of Theodoret, Book 1, Chapter 3, page 39 ‘The Epistle of Alexander, Bishop of Alexandria to Alexander, Bishop of Constantinople’)
However, Alexander represented a minority of the bishops present at the council of Nicea. Arius, who opposed Alexander, represented the other extreme. In the middle, represented by Eusebius, was the majority of bishops who held to what up to that time was viewed as orthodox Christianity. What Alexander said about the begotten nature of Christ, and the UN begotten nature of the Father, was common to all at the council. The difference was in when the Son was begotten. Alexander said eternally begotten. This became the later standard belief of Catholicism. Arius opposed this, and was labelled a heretic.
This middle-of-the-road group was by far the largest of the three parties. In other words, the majority of the bishops at this council were not committed to the extremes of either of the two opposing factions (the Arians or the Alexandrians). This shows us that up to this time, this Christ problem had not existed as such. The bishop of Alexander had brought this about when he attempted to expound what we now know as trinitarian concepts of Christ. This in turn led to the objections from Arius. So began the dispute.

To be continued...