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Is Immersion required by Scripture when a baptism is performed?

Is immersion required?

  • I don't know.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Interested to know.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Not if it's raining.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    24
Care to elaborate on this? In what sense are you speaking about?
We become fully identified with Him, so baptised in this sense, is in Him. Were buried and rose with Him positionally. Sealed in Him.
We were chosen in Christ, by God's grace.
Yes.
We were in Christ while he lived in this world.
He knew us while He lived in this world and as He hung on the cross. It is for those He knew that He died. We are actually placed in Him when we believe.
We were crucified with Christ when he was crucified

We arose with Christ, when he arose from the dead.
Metaphorically---for we have not been crucified nor have we been raised from being physically dead as He was. That is a future event for us. It is our position before God and in Christ.
We are seated in the heavenly places IN Christ before we were ever born into this world.

Our faith only gives evidence to these truth.
We were known by Him before we were born and in everything in our lives He is leading us with certainty and providence to the cross. We still must come to the cross. We still must believe as believing is the way. "Through faith." That we will believe is the certainty.
When we were dead sins, we were loved by Christ, this is not so of those that perish.
Yes.
We are born of the Spirit before we believe!
Care to elaborate on this? In what sense are you speaking about?
Yes but it is more that we are born of the Spirit to believe. We must be reborn in order to believe. And then we do believe.
 
We become fully identified with Him, so baptised in this sense, is in Him. Were buried and rose with Him positionally. Sealed in Him.

Yes.

Greetings Arial~​

I'm going to run these two together. The sense you put on this is positionally~but it is much more than that. Let us consider first Ephesians 1:4.

"According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:"​

The “in Christ” relationship on which all spiritual blessings depend is our election in Him, as can be clearly seen by the connection of this verse to the preceding verse.

All spiritual blessings of the previous verse are in Christ. How do sinners get into Christ? The Roman Catholic Church would say we must be baptized into it in order to be in Him. Alexander Campbell’s so-called Church of Christ would say the same thing (Gal 3:27). But the true gospel of Jesus Christ declares right here that it is based on election in Christ. Salvation is by God’s purpose and grace given in Christ before the world ( 2nd Timothy 1:9 ). God chose Paul and the Ephesian saints and us in Jesus Christ ~ this is election defined.

Here is where good men good wrong~Salvation in the scriptures is divided into five phases. The “in Christ” relationship must be divided and defined by the five phases of salvation, or, else, we will end up teaching error.

Briefly: When were you saved? This question tries to pinpoint eternal life to some act, point, or time. So unbiblical~the apostles never asked question like that. How would they answer such a question? Let us ask Paul.

Paul said he was saved before the world began (II Tim 1:9), when Jesus came into the world (I Tim 1:15), when the Spirit regenerated him (Titus 3:5), when he took heed to himself and the doctrine (I Tim 4:16), and would be saved sometime in the future (Rom 13:11).

Can you believe it? Paul clearly mentions five different stages or phases of salvation. And this is the key to understanding our wonderful salvation in Jesus Christ.

Since God saves sinners in stages, or phases, we must not limit salvation to just one idea or one event at one time. Paul saw his own salvation occurring in five phases.

It used to be called the Ordo Salutis of salvation, which means the order of salvation; but it is not studied or preached much any more. We live in the perilous times of the last days, when men no longer want sound doctrine preached to them (II Tim 3:1 – 4:4). They prefer fables over truth, so the true doctrine of salvation has been almost lost from the earth.

Everyone talks about “getting saved,” but no one can explain it from the Bible. There are “invitations” and “decisions” and “methods” for salvation, but none of these words or ideas are from the Bible.

Paul clearly taught five phases of salvation. Let us learn the five phases briefly, then study two charts with the Bible proof and explanation. If you love understanding, you will love the charts.

The ETERNAL PHASE is God’s plan and choice from eternity to allow sin into the world and to save His elect from it. Since He is eternal and sovereign, God planned in eternity all that He does in time. There are no surprises to God. He planned to allow sin, so that He could display His glorious grace in saving His elect from it and displaying His power and wrath on the rest.

The LEGAL PHASE is God’s work to satisfy His holy nature and perfect justice for the salvation of His elect. Because every sin must be punished, He sent a Substitute to die for their sins. His perfect holiness and justice cannot overlook sins and acquit wicked men. He must punish their sins in Another, even Jesus Christ. And this He did at the crucifixion of Jesus Christ 2000 years ago.

The VITAL PHASE is God’s application of these benefits to us personally and individually. Though He planned to save us from eternity and legally did so with Christ’s death on the cross, we still have a depraved and wicked nature at enmity with Him. So He regenerates us into a new life by His Spirit and gives us a new heart that loves Him and righteousness. This is being born again, and it is done entirely by the power of God sometime during our lives.

The PRACTICAL PHASE is our response to His salvation. He sends His Spirit into our hearts, and we cry “Abba, Father.” With new hearts from regeneration, we seek the truth and love it when we hear it. We hear the gospel, and we believe it. We want to be baptized to show Him our love. We want to know more of what we can do to please Him, and we gratefully cherish all His promises, which give us comfort and peace now.

The FINAL PHASE is that great day in the future when we shall be declared the sons of God to the whole universe and enter heaven for eternity. Our bodies will be raised from graves and glorified into new spiritual bodies, and we will be thoroughly purged from all sin to be perfectly holy in His presence forever. This great conclusion to the plan of salvation is yet in the future.

The great determining factor in salvation and the spiritual riches of Christ is God’s choice. According as: Consistently as, exactly or just as, in a manner corresponding to the way in which …” If you choose God or not has only practical benefits or consequences, not eternal life.

It is the sovereign will of the great God that determines salvation (Romans 9:10-24). He did not choose by foreknowledge those who had chosen to be in Christ, for (a) this contradicts Psalm 14:1-3 and Romans 3:9-18 and (b) it would make your choice supreme. God’s eternal choice was to place and view the elect in Jesus Christ legally and covenantly. The choice was made before the foundation of the world – before the act of creation. Here are cross-references for this ancient decree in the mind of God (Matt 25:34; Acts 15:18; Eph 3:11; II Tim 1:9; Titus 1:2; I Pet 1:20; Rev 13:8; 17:8).

In THIS ETERNAL SENSE, they were already viewed as adopted, justified, reconciled, etc., etc. This is the proper basis for blessing God – He chose us to all spiritual blessings long ago.

John Gill, John Brine, and Samuel Richardson taught eternal justification based on this eternal choice. Chosen in Jesus Christ, God views His elect as holy, without blame, and objects of His love. God has never view us outside of Christ, NEVER~impossible. He is the Head, we are the members of his elect body! Read Isaiah 40-45

By foreknowledge and fact God knew we were rebellious sinners and children of wrath even as the reprobates (Ps 14:1-3; 53:1-3; Rom 9:21; Eph 2:1-3; Titus 3:3).

But by grace and election, we are seen as sanctified and spotless children that He fully loves from everlasting~Jeremiah 31:3

This is not election so that we should live practical lives of holiness and love to God (though this is true), but He rather chose us in order to view us as holy objects of love.

The issue here is our legal position and standing in Jesus Christ – clothed in His holiness!

Consider" God cannot love sin or sinners, so He chose us in Christ where He could love us (1:6)!

Romans 5:8 exalts God’s love for us by Christ dying for sinners: but He did not love us as sinners: He loved us as chosen in Christ, Who died for us when still sinners!

To be continue~RB
 

Greetings Arial~​

I'm going to run these two together. The sense you put on this is positionally~but it is much more than that. Let us consider first Ephesians 1:4.

"According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:"​

The “in Christ” relationship on which all spiritual blessings depend is our election in Him, as can be clearly seen by the connection of this verse to the preceding verse.

All spiritual blessings of the previous verse are in Christ. How do sinners get into Christ? The Roman Catholic Church would say we must be baptized into it in order to be in Him. Alexander Campbell’s so-called Church of Christ would say the same thing (Gal 3:27). But the true gospel of Jesus Christ declares right here that it is based on election in Christ. Salvation is by God’s purpose and grace given in Christ before the world ( 2nd Timothy 1:9 ). God chose Paul and the Ephesian saints and us in Jesus Christ ~ this is election defined.

Here is where good men good wrong~Salvation in the scriptures is divided into five phases. The “in Christ” relationship must be divided and defined by the five phases of salvation, or, else, we will end up teaching error.

Briefly: When were you saved? This question tries to pinpoint eternal life to some act, point, or time. So unbiblical~the apostles never asked question like that. How would they answer such a question? Let us ask Paul.

Paul said he was saved before the world began (II Tim 1:9), when Jesus came into the world (I Tim 1:15), when the Spirit regenerated him (Titus 3:5), when he took heed to himself and the doctrine (I Tim 4:16), and would be saved sometime in the future (Rom 13:11).

Can you believe it? Paul clearly mentions five different stages or phases of salvation. And this is the key to understanding our wonderful salvation in Jesus Christ.

Since God saves sinners in stages, or phases, we must not limit salvation to just one idea or one event at one time. Paul saw his own salvation occurring in five phases.

It used to be called the Ordo Salutis of salvation, which means the order of salvation; but it is not studied or preached much any more. We live in the perilous times of the last days, when men no longer want sound doctrine preached to them (II Tim 3:1 – 4:4). They prefer fables over truth, so the true doctrine of salvation has been almost lost from the earth.

Everyone talks about “getting saved,” but no one can explain it from the Bible. There are “invitations” and “decisions” and “methods” for salvation, but none of these words or ideas are from the Bible.

Paul clearly taught five phases of salvation. Let us learn the five phases briefly, then study two charts with the Bible proof and explanation. If you love understanding, you will love the charts.

The ETERNAL PHASE is God’s plan and choice from eternity to allow sin into the world and to save His elect from it. Since He is eternal and sovereign, God planned in eternity all that He does in time. There are no surprises to God. He planned to allow sin, so that He could display His glorious grace in saving His elect from it and displaying His power and wrath on the rest.

The LEGAL PHASE is God’s work to satisfy His holy nature and perfect justice for the salvation of His elect. Because every sin must be punished, He sent a Substitute to die for their sins. His perfect holiness and justice cannot overlook sins and acquit wicked men. He must punish their sins in Another, even Jesus Christ. And this He did at the crucifixion of Jesus Christ 2000 years ago.

The VITAL PHASE is God’s application of these benefits to us personally and individually. Though He planned to save us from eternity and legally did so with Christ’s death on the cross, we still have a depraved and wicked nature at enmity with Him. So He regenerates us into a new life by His Spirit and gives us a new heart that loves Him and righteousness. This is being born again, and it is done entirely by the power of God sometime during our lives.

The PRACTICAL PHASE is our response to His salvation. He sends His Spirit into our hearts, and we cry “Abba, Father.” With new hearts from regeneration, we seek the truth and love it when we hear it. We hear the gospel, and we believe it. We want to be baptized to show Him our love. We want to know more of what we can do to please Him, and we gratefully cherish all His promises, which give us comfort and peace now.

The FINAL PHASE is that great day in the future when we shall be declared the sons of God to the whole universe and enter heaven for eternity. Our bodies will be raised from graves and glorified into new spiritual bodies, and we will be thoroughly purged from all sin to be perfectly holy in His presence forever. This great conclusion to the plan of salvation is yet in the future.

The great determining factor in salvation and the spiritual riches of Christ is God’s choice. According as: Consistently as, exactly or just as, in a manner corresponding to the way in which …” If you choose God or not has only practical benefits or consequences, not eternal life.

It is the sovereign will of the great God that determines salvation (Romans 9:10-24). He did not choose by foreknowledge those who had chosen to be in Christ, for (a) this contradicts Psalm 14:1-3 and Romans 3:9-18 and (b) it would make your choice supreme. God’s eternal choice was to place and view the elect in Jesus Christ legally and covenantly. The choice was made before the foundation of the world – before the act of creation. Here are cross-references for this ancient decree in the mind of God (Matt 25:34; Acts 15:18; Eph 3:11; II Tim 1:9; Titus 1:2; I Pet 1:20; Rev 13:8; 17:8).

In THIS ETERNAL SENSE, they were already viewed as adopted, justified, reconciled, etc., etc. This is the proper basis for blessing God – He chose us to all spiritual blessings long ago.

John Gill, John Brine, and Samuel Richardson taught eternal justification based on this eternal choice. Chosen in Jesus Christ, God views His elect as holy, without blame, and objects of His love. God has never view us outside of Christ, NEVER~impossible. He is the Head, we are the members of his elect body! Read Isaiah 40-45

By foreknowledge and fact God knew we were rebellious sinners and children of wrath even as the reprobates (Ps 14:1-3; 53:1-3; Rom 9:21; Eph 2:1-3; Titus 3:3).

But by grace and election, we are seen as sanctified and spotless children that He fully loves from everlasting~Jeremiah 31:3

This is not election so that we should live practical lives of holiness and love to God (though this is true), but He rather chose us in order to view us as holy objects of love.

The issue here is our legal position and standing in Jesus Christ – clothed in His holiness!

Consider" God cannot love sin or sinners, so He chose us in Christ where He could love us (1:6)!

Romans 5:8 exalts God’s love for us by Christ dying for sinners: but He did not love us as sinners: He loved us as chosen in Christ, Who died for us when still sinners!

To be continue~RB
I don't disagree with you. You just don't understand what I am saying so you say I am wrong.
 
Buff!​
Explain, please?​

They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea." 1 Cor 10:2​


They were all made to be in total identification with Moses.
GeneZ:

Yes, I'll be happy to explain 1 Cor. 10:2, but I'll wait until you explain Acts 8:34-39. Also, I will give you a few further thoughts on how the Greek baptizo is used in addition to its referring to immersion in water. So share with me your explanation on the Acts passages.
 
GeneZ:

Yes, I'll be happy to explain 1 Cor. 10:2, but I'll wait until you explain Acts 8:34-39. Also, I will give you a few further thoughts on how the Greek baptizo is used in addition to its referring to immersion in water. So share with me your explanation on the Acts passages.

Acts 8:34-39 - The eunuch and Philip were fresh out of the Jewish age, and still assuming the old way in their thinking.
No one yet understood enough about the Holy Spirit baptism to see the Jewish age had ended concerning water baptism.
God knew they would eventually understand and let it be.

Explain this one....


"They answered, “Grant that one of us may sit at Your right hand and the other at Your left in Your glory.”
“You do not know what you are asking,” Jesus replied.
“Can you drink the cup I will drink, or be baptized with the baptism I will undergo?” Mark 10:36-37​
...............
 
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Just a little sidebar from the subject at hand.

Is no one interested in that little baptismal font in reply 19 (pg. 1 here)was placed inside another bigger one and obviously changed the way they did baptisms when they did that.

All they say in the article is

During the most recent restoration work, the hidden ancient font was found, to the amazement of all in the project. This is a receptacle that was filled with holy water and was used in the Christian sacrament of baptism.

It says

The Church of the Nativity is located in the West Bank town of Bethlehem and is approximately 7 miles (10 kilometers) south of Jerusalem. It was built on the orders of Emperor Constantine in 330 AD, as a place of worship to honor the birth of Christ whom Christians and the Bible hold to be the son of God. (consecrated on May 31, 339.)
The church is the oldest site of worship of Christianity that’s been in constant use, and it forms part of a larger religious complex, which includes three monasteries of different Christian denominations . In the church, there is a silver star that marks the purported spot where Jesus was born, which is surrounded by lamps representing the various Christian churches.

So if Constantin commissioned the church in AD 330 and the add'l little font is 1500 years old then it had to have been placed there
around AD 500 give or take.

Who and more importantly WHY did someone/church (RCC?)

Interesting... from the Smithsonian

The Church of the Nativity was built around A.D. 330 by the first Christian Roman Emperor Constantine and was mostly destroyed—possibly during a Samaritan rebellion in A.D. 529—though parts of the original mosaic floor remain. Soon after, the Byzantine Emperor Justinian rebuilt the church in a bigger, grander fashion—largely the structure that remains today. In A.D. 614, the Persians, who razed many other churches during wars with Byzantium, spared the Church of the Nativity, supposedly out of respect for a mosaic of the Magi shown wearing Persian attire.
It could be said that if the entire church was basically destroyed in 529... which is approximately 1500 years ago then Justinian rebuilt it larger
the question remains as to why the little font was put in the big font... not just 170 years after Constantine's church but if they found a little font in the rubble when rebuilding it or if Justinoian added it. and WHY in the first place.

Anyone?
 
Acts 8:34-39 - The eunuch and Philip were fresh out of the Jewish age, and still assuming the old way in their thinking.
No one yet understood enough about the Holy Spirit baptism to see the Jewish age had ended concerning water baptism.
God knew they would eventually understand and let it be.

Explain this one....


"They answered, “Grant that one of us may sit at Your right hand and the other at Your left in Your glory.”
“You do not know what you are asking,” Jesus replied.
“Can you drink the cup I will drink, or be baptized with the baptism I will undergo?” Mark 10:36-37​
...............

GeneZ:

Your explanation—conjecture—of Acts 8:34-39 regarding Philip and the eunuch is totally non-biblical and lacks documentation. In the first place, Philip was led by the Spirit of the Lord. “Now an angel of the Lord said to Philip...” (See Verses 26 & 39). Per your opinion, then, the angel and the Holy Spirit did not “understood enough yet about the Holy Spirit baptism to see the Jewish age had ended concerning water baptism.” How dare you to speak of God’s angels and His Holy Spirit in such an unintelligible manner!

Luke wrote the Book of Acts in about A. D. 62-64, according to biblical scholars. The New Way or redeemed community was ushered in about A. D. 32 or 34. The New Way was solidly established long before the angel encountered the eunuch. You seem to be so “hung up” in such a negative way about “water baptism,” I would caution you lest you die from thirst! So allow me to help you out a little more.

“Then Peter declared, ‘Can anyone withhold water for baptizing [immersing] these people, who have received the Holy Spirit, just as we have?’ ” (Acts 10:47). You are the one withholding water!

Before I give you my understanding of I Cor. 10:2, allow me to explain the Greek baptizo. The translations are immerse or immersion, submerge, an overwhelming, engulfing. Examples: We are all immersed (baptized) in or overwhelmed with God’s love. We are engulfed by Heaven’s forgiveness and salvation. Consequently, we are also submerged in water, according to ample examples of the early believers, which I have noted.

I Cor. 10:1-2: “I want you to know, brothers, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea, and all were baptized (overwhelmed or engulfed) into Moses in the cloud and in the sea...”

Our fathers trusted themselves to Moses as they passed through the dried-up sea, with the cloud over them, thus they were covered and overwhelmed—“baptized”—with the two. They were saved from Pharaoh by that “baptism” and passed under the leadership of Moses.​
 
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It could be said that if the entire church was basically destroyed in 529... which is approximately 1500 years ago then Justinian rebuilt it larger
the question remains as to why the little font was put in the big font... not just 170 years after Constantine's church but if they found a little font in the rubble when rebuilding it or if Justinoian added it. and WHY in the first place.

Anyone?
I did some reading and found a FEW key facts.
  1. An older church burned on that site and was rebuilt by Justinian.
  2. The small font and the new columns by Justinian are made of the same stone.
  3. The later church was built over the Justinian Church during a time when it was "reverential" to preserve the original by encasing it in the new structure.
My best guess is the small font (as big as a man, so not that small) was added to a church that had none at a time when Baptismal fonts were in style, and the later reconstruction buried it to preserve it and replaced it with a larger "octagon" font in the new style.

Both fonts just prove that the EOC practiced baptism (hardly news) and that they they used fonts about the same size as the ones they still use (interesting, but not earth shaking).

As an architect, I found the older (small font) to be more attractive ... but that is just my personal taste.
 
GeneZ:

Your explanation—conjecture—of Acts 8:34-39 regarding Philip and the eunuch is totally non-biblical and lacks documentation.​


Just like all the rest of the Bible.... That is why its called "interpretation."

I realize I am running contrary to your personal bias.
 
GeneZ:

You are running aground as to the actualities of the scriptures. I suggest you try harder to be more accurate in your presentations.
 
Is immersion required when Baptism is performed? can you back your belief with scripture?

And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.” Matt 28.
I think Christ was very clear on this point, as He showed by His baptism and declaration as we see in Matthew 3..
14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.
16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
 
I think Christ was very clear on this point, as He showed by His baptism and declaration as we see in Matthew 3..
14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.
16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
Where do you see the proof that Jesus was fully immersed?
 
Where do you see the proof that Jesus was fully immersed?
In the scripture for to the Jews it was full immersion, so when they say baptized it was not sprinkling or dip your toe in, it was complete purification of the body, thus John the Baptist was at the river Jordan not with a cup of 'holy' water. Here is a good explanation on it..

WHAT DID JEWISH BAPTISM LOOK LIKE IN THE TIME OF JESUS?​

Following the upheaval of the 1967 war, archaeologists were presented with the opportunity to excavate parts of the upper city of Jerusalem, giving a new window into daily life in ancient times. Many of the houses were grand and spacious, with their own water cisterns and ritual baths in the basements.[2] Some houses were found to have had several of these mikva’ot, since it is thought that as well as providing for the household (which could even be up to fifty people) they would have been able to welcome and host pilgrims arriving for the Jewish feasts, catering for many more. Many of this upper city aristocracy were among the priestly class, who would have to stay in a state of ritual purity as much as possible, and so would have to immerse themselves in a mikveh frequently. Archaeologists also believe that the pools of Siloam and Bethsaida could have been used for ritual bathing in the Second Temple period for those visiting Jerusalem for the high holy days.
So immersion in a mikveh was quite common at the time of Yeshua, but the New Testament also describes baptisms taking place not only in rivers, but in any available body of water. In Acts 8, we read of a visiting pilgrim from Ethiopia, who came to believe in Yeshua as he read Isaiah on the way home:

“As they traveled along the road, they came to some water and the eunuch said, “Look, here is water. What can stand in the way of my being baptized?” (verse 36).

By this point baptism had come to signify a decision to accept Yeshua as Messiah and Lord."
 
In the scripture for to the Jews it was full immersion,
Jewish baptism/purification is not a Christian baptism
so when they say baptized it was not sprinkling or dip your toe in, it was complete purification of the body, thus John the Baptist was at the river Jordan not with a cup of 'holy' water. Here is a good explanation on it..
Still you have no proof Jesus was totally immersed. How do you know he didn’t kneel and have water poured on him!

Where or why does holy water come into this?
 
GeneZ:

Your explanation—conjecture—of Acts 8:34-39 regarding Philip and the eunuch is totally non-biblical and lacks documentation. In the first place, Philip was led by the Spirit of the Lord. “Now an angel of the Lord said to Philip...” (See Verses 26 & 39). Per your opinion, then, the angel and the Holy Spirit did not “understood enough yet about the Holy Spirit baptism to see the Jewish age had ended concerning water baptism.” How dare you to speak of God’s angels and His Holy Spirit in such an unintelligible manner!
What are you talking about an "angel of the Lord?" Said what?

If it were an angel it would say "a" spirit of the Lord."

You got it all wrong!


The eunuch asked Philip, “Tell me, please, who is the prophet talking about, himself or someone else?”
Then Philip began with that very passage of Scripture and told him the good news about Jesus.

As they traveled along the road, they came to some water and the eunuch said, “Look, here is water.
What can stand in the way of my being baptized?” And he gave orders to stop the chariot.
Then both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water and Philip baptized him.
When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord suddenly took Philip away,
and the eunuch did not see him again, but went on his way rejoicing.
 
GeneZ:

You are running aground as to the actualities of the scriptures. I suggest you try harder to be more accurate in your presentations.


Did an angel of the Lord tell you that?

Or, did The Spirit of the Lord tell you that?

You talk about being Accurate?
What are you doing other than confusing everything to avoid facing the Truth!

Here! :coffee::coffee::coffee::coffee::coffee:
 
Did an angel of the Lord tell you that?

Or, did The Spirit of the Lord tell you that?

You talk about being Accurate?
What are you doing other than confusing everything to avoid facing the Truth!

Here! :coffee::coffee::coffee::coffee::coffee:
May I grab one of those coffee’s?
 
I think Christ was very clear on this point, as He showed by His baptism and declaration as we see in Matthew 3..
14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.
16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
Hobie:

We are in agreement. It is revealing that in the 16th verse, which you noted above, both "water baptism" and the "Spirit of God" are aligned. That is the message all of us should digest—namely and simply, immersion in water is a reflection of our having also received Holy Spirit "baptism" [immersion].
 
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