Is Immersion required by Scripture when a baptism is performed?

[Rella]

1. Baptism is not a sacrament~it is a ordinance of the NT church. A sacrament by definition is a religious ceremony or ritual regarded as imparting divine grace. The RCC has seven of these sacraments, the church of Jesus Christ has none. We do have two ordinances~water baptism and the Lord's supper, neither of which imparts grace.

Webster disagrees with you.

Here is what the Merriam Webster defines it to be

baptism​

noun​

bap·tism ˈbap-ˌti-zəm
especially Southern ˈbab-

Synonyms of baptism
1
a
: a Christian sacrament marked by ritual use of water and admitting the recipient to the Christian community
b
: a non-Christian rite using water for ritual purification
c
Christian Science : purification by or submergence in Spirit

2
: an act, experience, or ordeal by which one is purified, sanctified, initiated, or named

baptismal
bap-ˈtiz-məl
especially Southern bab-
adjective
baptismally
bap-ˈtiz-mə-lē
adverb

Did you know?​

In Christianity, baptism is the sacrament of admission to the church, symbolized by the pouring or sprinkling of water on the head or by immersion in water. The ceremony is usually accompanied by the words “I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.” In the doctrine originated by St. Paul, it signifies the wiping away of past sins and the rebirth of the individual into a new life. Judaism practiced ritual purification by immersion, and the Gospels report that John the Baptist baptized Jesus. Baptism was an important ritual in the early church by the first century ce, and infant baptism appeared c. 200 ce. Roman Catholic, Orthodox, and most Protestant churches practice infant baptism. The Anabaptist reformers insisted on adult baptism after a confession of faith; modern Baptists and the Disciples of Christ also practice adult baptism.

And not just Webster...
An interesting read... and note I am deliberately not including any Presby or RCC ideas on this.

from: The author of the link.... Ill let you read read rather then copy as this is long enough.

Baptism: Sacrament or Ordinance?

Today I am going to carry on the discussion of baptism that I began yesterday. Or more correctly, I will begin it again. Yesterday I asked some questions that were of a rambling nature rather than …

www.challies.com

So where do my beliefs lie? I guess since I have taken the time to write all of this I should identify what I believe. So here goes. As a Reformed believer attending a Baptist church I struggle with this on an on-going basis. I have trouble viewing baptism as a mere ordinance. It may come from the Word or even from the way I was raised, but reducing baptism to anything less than a sacrament, a means of grace, just does not seem right. But I continue to struggle with it. At this time I cannot definitively say what I believe.

There will be more folks who inherits eternal life without ever be being baptised in water than have been baptized in water.

Those who have been properly baptized into Jesus Christ, or, into his faith/religion etc. enjoy a "practical salvation" of understanding and knowing the truth of the gospel than those who have never heard the gospel to the same degree as those who have and submitted to water baptism. Proof?

Proof? Then for Pete's sake why do you ever disagree with those who have been immersed? You say .....

Those who have been properly baptized into Jesus Christ, or, into his faith/religion etc. enjoy a "practical salvation" of understanding and knowing the truth of the gospel

If y'all have been so dunked into the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.... (The very same I was sprinkled into) why are there not kumbaya
gatherings here rather than .... (of understanding and knowing the truth of the gospel).. the varied debates over the meaning of whatever???

I have it, or I would never made the statement just made.

The salvation mentioned in this scriptures can only means in a "practical sense"~a person enjoys a salvation of KNOWING and UNDERSTANDING the gospel of Jesus, more than those folks though born of God, yet never been water baptized for whatever reason. Millions in the OT who were children of God though never baptised INTO JESUS CHRIST, never enjoyed the benefits of understanding the gospel to the degree NT believers do, who have been baptized into Christ~or into his religion, teachings, faith, etc.

Water baptism IS a NT ordinance that is COMMANDED for a believer to give to God the answer of a GOOD conscience. It is not an option to do, or not to do. More later on this point.

How can it be an ordinance that is COMMANDED FOR A BELIEVER TO GIVE GOD THE ANSWER OF A GOOD CONSCIENCE. And not an option to or not to do.. AND still inherit eternal life without ever being baptised??? A command is a command and not for us to question.

Just know this RB. We will never agree on this point... but I still love you as my brother in Christ.

 

[Carbon]

... it is stated that the whole household also "listened" and "believed" in some cases [there are very few "household" verses], so were babies more advanced back then?

He wasn’t picking certain people out of it. “It’s obvious” an infant could be baptized. It’s also obvious an infant wouldn’t understand the preaching.
So why mention either unless in either case infants should be excluded.

 

[Carbon]

Webster disagrees with you.

Here is what the Merriam Webster defines it to be

baptism​

noun​

bap·tism ˈbap-ˌti-zəm
especially Southern ˈbab-

Synonyms of baptism
1
a
: a Christian sacrament marked by ritual use of water and admitting the recipient to the Christian community
b
: a non-Christian rite using water for ritual purification
c
Christian Science : purification by or submergence in Spirit

2
: an act, experience, or ordeal by which one is purified, sanctified, initiated, or named

baptismal
bap-ˈtiz-məl
especially Southern bab-
adjective
baptismally
bap-ˈtiz-mə-lē
adverb

Did you know?​

In Christianity, baptism is the sacrament of admission to the church, symbolized by the pouring or sprinkling of water on the head or by immersion in water. The ceremony is usually accompanied by the words “I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.” In the doctrine originated by St. Paul, it signifies the wiping away of past sins and the rebirth of the individual into a new life. Judaism practiced ritual purification by immersion, and the Gospels report that John the Baptist baptized Jesus. Baptism was an important ritual in the early church by the first century ce, and infant baptism appeared c. 200 ce. Roman Catholic, Orthodox, and most Protestant churches practice infant baptism. The Anabaptist reformers insisted on adult baptism after a confession of faith; modern Baptists and the Disciples of Christ also practice adult baptism.

And not just Webster...
An interesting read... and note I am deliberately not including any Presby or RCC ideas on this.

from: The author of the link.... Ill let you read read rather then copy as this is long enough.

Baptism: Sacrament or Ordinance?

Today I am going to carry on the discussion of baptism that I began yesterday. Or more correctly, I will begin it again. Yesterday I asked some questions that were of a rambling nature rather than …

www.challies.com

So where do my beliefs lie? I guess since I have taken the time to write all of this I should identify what I believe. So here goes. As a Reformed believer attending a Baptist church I struggle with this on an on-going basis. I have trouble viewing baptism as a mere ordinance. It may come from the Word or even from the way I was raised, but reducing baptism to anything less than a sacrament, a means of grace, just does not seem right. But I continue to struggle with it. At this time I cannot definitively say what I believe.


Proof? Then for Pete's sake why do you ever disagree with those who have been immersed? You say .....

If y'all have been so dunked into the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.... (The very same I was sprinkled into) why are there not kumbaya
gatherings here rather than .... (of understanding and knowing the truth of the gospel).. the varied debates over the meaning of whatever???


How can it be an ordinance that is COMMANDED FOR A BELIEVER TO GIVE GOD THE ANSWER OF A GOOD CONSCIENCE. And not an option to or not to do.. AND still inherit eternal life without ever being baptised??? A command is a command and not for us to question.

Just know this RB. We will never agree on this point... but I still love you as my brother in Christ.

I prefer the 1828 version.

BAP'TISM, noun [Gr. to baptize.]


1. The application of water to a person, as a sacrament or religious ceremony, by which he is initiated into the visible church of Christ. This is usually performed by sprinkling or immersion.


2. The sufferings of Christ. Matthew 20:22-23.


3. So much of the gospel as was preached by John, the Baptist. Acts 18:25.

 

[atpollard]

Webster disagrees with you.

Baptism is a SACRAMENT to some and an ORDINANCE to others. The distinction is what PURPOSE one believes Baptism serves.

A Sacrament imbues power, while an Ordinance is merely commanded. For Churches that believe that God WORKS THROUGH Baptism, it is a Sacrament. For Churches that believe that Baptism is symbolic of a work God does irrespective of Baptism, it is an Ordinance.

The THEOLOGICAL distinction is beyond the general scope of Miriam-Webser (it would appear).

 

[Rella]

... it is stated that the whole household also "listened" and "believed" in some cases [there are very few "household" verses], so were babies more advanced back then?

Possibly so as they married like at 12 or 13.

Toddler milestone: Talking and understanding

Talking and understanding speech go hand in hand. By listening to others, your child learns what words sound like and how to put a sentence together.

www.babycenter.com

12 to 18 months Your toddler may not be saying much yet, but they're listening and starting to understand.

When can my baby understand language? | baby gooroo

Babies are able to understand what you say to them well before they can speak any words.

www.babygooroo.com

Babies are able to understand what you say to them well before they can speak any words.

Parenting a Child With a Speech Delay Can Be Lonely

My 4-year-old has a speech delay and is behind the rest of his classmates. I hate to admit how difficult it's been on me. But after talking to my son's doctor, I realize there's no reason to push him to catch up.

www.parents.com

Children start recognizing their names by around 4 1/2 months, so even a young baby may pay more attention if you mention them in conversation,

When babies understand words and commands

Language learning begins before your baby is even born. Here's when they'll start to understand words and commands.

www.babycenter.com

Baby Development When do babies start understanding words? Babies start learning language before they're born. By the time you look into their eyes for the first time, they're already capable of recognizing your voice. Each new day is a learning opportunity.

 

[Rella]

I prefer the 1828 version.

BAP'TISM, noun [Gr. to baptize.]


1. The application of water to a person, as a sacrament or religious ceremony, by which he is initiated into the visible church of Christ. This is usually performed by sprinkling or immersion.


2. The sufferings of Christ. Matthew 20:22-23.


3. So much of the gospel as was preached by John, the Baptist. Acts 18:25.

Exactly....

Sacrament... and application of water.

TYVM

 

[Red Baker]

My post about quarrelling over words was not about whether or not a believer should be baptized. It was about the quarrelling over the word "baptized" and whether it meant full immersion in a body of water, or sprinkling, or water poured over the head.

I knew what you meant~neither pouring or sprinkling is a picture/type of the Lord's death and resurrection~ impossible.

Romans 6:3-6~"Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin."

The words speak for themselves~

we are buried with him by baptism into death

Again:

raised up from the dead

Again:

if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death

Again:

shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection

Sir, this cannot be said of pouring a little water on someone's head, or sprinkling a little water on a person's head....impossible~ let us be honest with God's word.

When the Lord Jesus died, he was buried OUT OF SIGHT, and he arose from the grave.................. the truth of the gospel is at state, in which baptism with water we stand upon. Peter said: Baptism also doth save us, how Peter, does it legally wash away our sins? No, it is what baptism pictures that saves us from our sins~"The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:"

I see....... BY THE RESURRECTION OF JESUS CHRIST! Only immersion shows forth this blessed truth, pouring or sprinkling, makes light of the gospel message, and its glorious truths.

 

[atpollard]

He wasn’t picking certain people out of it. “It’s obvious” an infant could be baptized. It’s also obvious an infant wouldn’t understand the preaching.
So why mention either unless in either case infants should be excluded.

I think "Household" is used in a generic sense as we do today and is not indicative of "each and every member without exception" ... so it is esigesis to read "households had infants" or "households had no infants" into the text ... scripture is silent on infants in those three households. It is eisegesis to say "every person without exception, including infants were baptized" or "no infants were baptized" in those verses ... scripture is silent on infant baptism in those three households. The same holds for "belief" of each and every member without exception.

I just don't like building doctrine by reading between the lines. I prefer to just admit that Scripture is silent and admit we have a theological "house of cards" on that specific point (however sturdy we feel our assumptions are). Like the ATONEMENT or Eschatology (scripture says some things, but theology reads a lot into it).

 

[Red Baker]

Let me add more on 1st Peter 3:21. Part 1

Consider 1st Peter 3:21 closer: This is a creative use of words, for they were saved from water, for the water killed all others.

1. Noah’s ark saved from water literally – there is no figure that eight souls did not drown.
2. A transition is taking place from Noah’s ark and salvation in it to salvation in Christ.
3. By the water lifting the ark and its occupants up from the drowning wicked, there is a figure.
   1. We know the ark is a figure of salvation in some sense, for like figure next requires it.
   2. God planned and prepared the ark for the saving of Noah’s household from flood waters.
   3. God told Noah to get in the ark, and God shut the door to keep any others from getting in.
   4. They were saved by water in that water lifted up the ark with Noah and family safe in it.
   5. God’s elect were chosen in Christ Jesus, and God’s wrath against Him saved all of them.
   6. God can use means like Cyrus to destroy Babylon and to rescue His people all at once!

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:​

The like figure.​

1. There are two figures or pictures here – the ark in the previous verse, baptism in this verse.
   1. A figure is a symbolic picture representing something in reality (Romans 5:14; Heb 9:9).
   2. The adjective like indicates the figure of baptism is similar to another figure in context.
   3. The adverb also in this first clause further confirms at least two things being considered.
   4. Noah’s ark and water baptism are two figures: both are a picture of salvation in Christ.
   5. Most translations and commentators have only one figure – the ark is a figure of baptism!
   6. They have a vested interest in baptism not being a figure – for most are baby sprinklers.
2. There are five requirements for a scriptural baptism, and this one verse teaches three of them.
   1. The three requirements taught here are the proper subject, mode, and design of baptism.
   2. It is amazing to see what modern translations have done to corrupt all three requirements.
   3. Around 90-95% of all so-called Christians cannot learn baptism’s three requirements.
   4. For five properties of a proper baptism.
3. This verse about baptism is the most definitive verse in the entire Bible about this ordinance.
   1. It is amazing to read works on baptism that do not mention this verse or quite neglect it.
   2. It is amazing to see what modern translations have done to corrupt all three requirements.
   3. Why cannot 90-95% see this simple truth? Tradition above scripture; they will not be fools for Jesus; the truth is for few, like 8 in context; God sends delusion (II Thes 2:9-12).
4. Baptism is a figure of resurrection, as the verse’s grammar requires, and as the Bible teaches.
   1. The grammar, by ignoring the parenthetical element, connects the figure to resurrection.
   2. Bible baptism, which is immersion or submersion, is a picture of burial and resurrection.
   3. Paul thoroughly identified the burial and resurrection figure of water baptism (Ro 6:3-5).
   4. Without this understanding of baptism = resurrection, you have no hope with I Cor 15:29.

Whereunto even baptism.​

1. Having introduced Noah and the ark for several reasons, Peter applied its figure to baptism.
2. To this point in I Peter 3:18-22, no reader could know where he was going until these words.

Doth also now save us.​

1. The adverb also in this first clause further confirms at least two figures are being considered.
   1. The ark literally saved from water; Jesus literally saved His elect from the second death.
   2. The ark figuratively saved by figuring Jesus; baptism figuratively saves by figuring Jesus.
2. How does baptism save? It saves figuratively, because baptism has been defined as a figure.
   1. There is real salvation in Jesus Christ’s resurrection mentioned in this verse (Rom 4:25).
   2. Baptism pictures that resurrection in a figure by its burial and rising again from water.
   3. There is no real saving efficacy, power, value in baptism, for the next clause confirms it.
   4. When the Bible says baptism washes away sins (Acts 22:16), it only does so figuratively.
   5. A good conscience answering God in baptism is evidence of eternal life (Mark 16:16).
3. The will and works of man are entirely rejected as having any role in eternal life whatsoever.

​

 

[Red Baker]

Not the putting away of the filth of the flesh.​

1. A very damning and destructive heresy in church history is the premise that baptism saves.
   1. Once you accept this premise for your reasoning, then you will corrupt much more truth.
   2. Since water may not be available for an immersion, you will invent sprinkling or pouring.
   3. Since many died in infancy, heretics comforted mothers by baptizing their babies, and the consistent Presbyterians doing this will also stuff the Lord’s Supper in their little mouths.
   4. Since infants miscarry, and they hold to original sin, they also use intrauterine baptism.
   5. Since Campbellites baptize believers, they deny original sin for the age of accountability.
   6. Since Mormons require a Mormon baptism, they invented baptism for dead relatives.
   7. Baptismal regeneration or salvation is a terrible lie that has corrupted “Christianity.”
2. Modern translations and commentators show a profane perversity by corrupting this point.
   1. They must at all costs maintain the RCC heresy and premise that baptism saves the soul.
   2. Therefore, when they find God denying their profanity, they alter His words like in Eden.
   3. They change the words filth of the flesh … to … dirt of the body in words or meaning.
3. The terms here define, demand, and prove design of water baptism – no means of salvation.
   1. Water baptism does not remove or take away sins or sin nature in any literal or real way.
   2. This jewel of a text should be memorized by every Baptist child to protect against heresy.
   3. Remember, this definitive baptism text began by declaring it was a figurative ordinance!
   4. A figurative ordinance does not have saving efficacy in any literal or real way. Grasp it!
4. What is the filth of the flesh not? It is not a dirty body as Campbellites and others hallucinate.
   1. It is not the dirt of the body, because no convert in human history has ever thought such.
   2. It is not the dirt of the body, because the good conscience here is about sin and salvation.
   3. It is not the dirt of the body, because baptism is for repentance of sins, not a dirty body.
   4. Filth of the flesh is not bodily dirt, or we would have to hold bathtub holiness (II Co 7:1)!
5. What is the filth of the flesh here? It is the sins and or the sin nature of man’s fleshly nature.
   1. It is the sins and sinfulness of man resulting from the lusts of his flesh in context (2:11).
   2. It is the sins and sinfulness of man that will sink his soul into the lake of fire (Re 22:11).Peter further defined and explained in his second epistle about the flesh (II Pet 2:10,18).
   3. Paul defined and explained about the flesh as sins to be forgiven by Christ (Col 2:11,13).
   4. Jude used filthy, italicized preserved interpolation, for sinful, wicked dreams (Jude 1:8).
6. Baptism does not put away sin, sins, or sin nature, and any thought to the contrary is heresy.
   1. Baptism only saves figuratively, which is the premise on which this entire verse is built.
   2. Baptism is by those with good consciences, which can only come after regeneration!
   3. Putting away sins was by the finished work of Christ (John 19:30; Heb 1:3; 10:10-14).
   4. Man’s will or works, even righteous works, are rejected (Tit 3:5; Jn 1:13; Rom 9:15-16).

But the answer of a good conscience toward God.​

1. Because of their false premise that baptism saves, 90-95% of “Christians” baptize infants.
   1. They have absolutely no Bible basis for any infant ever being baptized by the apostles.
   2. Infants do not have an active conscience, nor can they express themselves toward God.
   3. Their consciences cannot, do not, and will not ever come close to believing or answering.
   4. So the RCC and others invent godparents to answer for the infants … defying John 1:13!
   5. So the RCC and others invent confirmation to get an answer later … defying Acts 8:37!
2. The terms here define, demand, and prove the subject of baptism – a regenerated believer.
   1. Water baptism requires a conscience – consciousness of right and wrong; infants flunk.
   2. The issue at stake in salvation is a conscience understanding guilt and forgiveness of sin.
   3. This conscience can declare repudiation of past sins and commit to a life of discipleship.
   4. An infant can never do these things, and others cannot do them for an infant (John 1:13).
   5. Thus, Particular Baptists have traditionally referred to water baptism as believer’s baptism. Amen!
3. The condition for baptism is a good conscience, which requires maturity and regeneration!
   1. A bad conscience is under condemnation and guilt of sin without remedy (Heb 10:1-3).
   2. A good conscience must hear and believe the true gospel of forgiveness and justification.
   3. It must make a conscious choice itself, which some did and some did not (Luke 7:29-30).
   4. A man not born again is dead in sins with a wicked conscience (Rom 8:7-8; Eph 2:1-3).
4. Water baptism is the answer of that good conscience to God for sending Jesus Christ for it.
   1. Baptism is not a bad conscience asking for God to save it by water for it to become good.
   2. Baptism is the individual ordinance of a person thanking God for saving by Jesus’ death.
   3. When one hears and believes the gospel, it purges the conscience for baptism (Heb 9:14).
   4. The fabulous news of Jesus Christ’s finished work clears the conscience (Heb 10:19-22).
5. Modern translations and commentators show a profane perversity by corrupting this point.
   1. They must at all costs maintain the RCC heretical practice that infants are to be baptized.
   2. Therefore, when they find God denying their profanity, they alter His words like in Eden.
   3. They alter answer of a good conscience … to … appeal or request in words or meaning.
   4. Because Philip required the Ethiopian to believe first, they delete Acts 8:37 altogether!
6. Discipleship is required in baptism, which precludes or warns about baptizing little children.
   1. More is required than faith in Jesus, for commitment to a new life is included (Ro 6:3-5).
   2. John required works meet for repentance when Pharisees came to his baptism (Matt 3:8)

By the resurrection of Jesus Christ.​

1. Proper baptism, burial and resurrection in water, is a figurative picture of Jesus’ resurrection.
2. The connection here defines, demands, and proves the mode of water baptism – immersion.
   1. Baptism must be a figure of salvation in Jesus Christ, for that is what is written thus far.
   2. Baptism must be a figure of Jesus Christ’s resurrection by connection to this last phrase.
   3. Only baptism by immersion has a figure or picture of any kind at all of body resurrection.
   4. The Bible’s one Author, the Holy Spirit, confirms this in Romans 6:3-5 and I Cor 15:29.
   5. If you do not see baptism must show resurrection, you cannot handle I Corinthians 15:29!
3. By denying baptism is a figure (they say the ark prefigured baptism), they justify sprinkling.
4. Peter has now returned full circle from his interruption to the quickening of Christ (3:18).

 

[atpollard]

Possibly so as they married like at 12 or 13.

Toddler milestone: Talking and understanding

Talking and understanding speech go hand in hand. By listening to others, your child learns what words sound like and how to put a sentence together.

www.babycenter.com

12 to 18 months Your toddler may not be saying much yet, but they're listening and starting to understand.

When can my baby understand language? | baby gooroo

Babies are able to understand what you say to them well before they can speak any words.

www.babygooroo.com

Babies are able to understand what you say to them well before they can speak any words.

Parenting a Child With a Speech Delay Can Be Lonely

My 4-year-old has a speech delay and is behind the rest of his classmates. I hate to admit how difficult it's been on me. But after talking to my son's doctor, I realize there's no reason to push him to catch up.

www.parents.com

Children start recognizing their names by around 4 1/2 months, so even a young baby may pay more attention if you mention them in conversation,

When babies understand words and commands

Language learning begins before your baby is even born. Here's when they'll start to understand words and commands.

www.babycenter.com

Baby Development When do babies start understanding words? Babies start learning language before they're born. By the time you look into their eyes for the first time, they're already capable of recognizing your voice. Each new day is a learning opportunity.

For Paedobaptists, an infant is baptized into the community at "months" old (typically) ... we will have to agree to disagree that they have heard, understood and accepted the Gospel message at that point. [Let's at least be honest this is where this conversation was aimed.]
I am a Particular Baptist (thus Credobaptist) and entered this conversation with diametrically opposed core assumptions from my Presbyterian brothers and sisters about such things as the nature of the New Covenant, purpose of Baptism and definition of Church.

So polite conversation and respectful disagreement is the best we can achieve on some issues surrounding "Baptism".

 

[Carbon]

I think "Household" is used in a generic sense as we do today and is not indicative of "each and every member without exception" ... so it is esigesis to read "households had infants" or "households had no infants" into the text ... scripture is silent on infants in those three households. It is eisegesis to say "every person without exception, including infants were baptized" or "no infants were baptized" in those verses ... scripture is silent on infant baptism in those three households. The same holds for "belief" of each and every member without exception.

I just don't like building doctrine by reading between the lines. I prefer to just admit that Scripture is silent and admit we have a theological "house of cards" on that specific point (however sturdy we feel our assumptions are). Like the ATONEMENT or Eschatology (scripture says some things, but theology reads a lot into it).

Looks like you agree with me.

 

[GeneZ]

And it would seem that even Paul got it wrong View attachment 486 (see below)

Red....

Then who comprises a household?

Acts 16:33 "And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their wounds, and he was baptized at once, with all his family."
Your King Jimmy Only says it like this
33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.
Interlinerar Greek/English
(in part) and he was baptised he and the [household] of him all immediately
It does not say he and all his neighbors. It does not say he and all his fellow workers.... as content would show us it was
he and all his family... (or perhaps also those staying with him.)
Now what comprises a family. ONLY HUSBAND AND WIFE?????? for as you point out Baptism is NOT for babies, and truly we read NOTHING of young adults being baptized in the scriptures.
So who in tarnation is his family?????????????????????????????????????????????????

Acts 16 Why did Paul baptize a household? - Wednesday in the Word

In Acts 16, when Luke reports on the conversion of two locals, he tells us that Paul baptized their entire households. Why would Paul baptize an entire household?

www.wednesdayintheword.com

Acts 16 Why did Paul baptize a household?​

And what about Lydia...... Acts 16: 13-15

16:13And on the Sabbath day we went outside the gate to the riverside, where we supposed there was a place of prayer, and we sat down and spoke to the women who had come together. 14One who heard us was a woman named Lydia, from the city of Thyatira, a seller of purple goods, who was a worshiper of God. The Lord opened her heart to pay attention to what was said by Paul. 15and after she was baptized, and her household as well, she urged us, saying, “If you have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come to my house and stay.” And she prevailed upon us. -Acts 16:13-15 ESV

Your King Jimmy Only says it like this
13 And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spake unto the women which resorted thither.

14 And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul.

15 And when she was baptized, and her household, she besought us, saying, If ye have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house, and abide there. And she constrained us.

Interlinear in part

15 and the house of her

So who in tarnation in her family was her household? Maybe her maids? Maybe her parents or inlaws?
By common sense we should see that based in a time when there was a fair amount of infant deaths... but no abortion and NO birth control that these families had to have had babies and or young adults.

What about 1 Cor 1:16 your KJV ( Paul admits)

16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.

So now we know of 3 households that were baptized.

So please, again I ask, explain household or family as you understand that to mean.

Thank you so much

In the early days they were still thinking like the immediate age they had just come out of.

They had to first learn the new life in Christ. many were yet in the dark.

Paul was the quickest of the apostles to catch on.

Here is what Paul said in 1 Cor 1:15b-17

But I did baptize the household of Stephanas also; beyond that, ​

I do not know if I baptized anyone else. ​

For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, ​

not with cleverness of speech, so that the cross of Christ would not be ​

made of no effect." 1 Cor 1:15b-17​

The early church was first adjusting to the new life in Christ, having just come out of Judaism.
John the Baptist had been Judaism in motion.

Yes... still today many in churches only see the passages where people were being water baptized,
and formed a tradition that is not questioned by those who really do not study the Bible in depth.

Watch here...

It was a transition period between Judaism looking forward to the Messiah vs Christianity that was finding the Messiah had arrived!

​

While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul took the road through the interior and arrived at Ephesus. ​

​

There he found some disciples and asked them, ​

“Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?”​

They answered, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.”​

​

So Paul asked, “Then what baptism did you receive?”​

“John’s baptism,” they replied.​

​

Paul said, “John’s baptism was a baptism of repentance. ​

He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus.”​

Acts 19:1-4​

How can we be a successful church in our day if we keep refusing to become one around the Word of God?

Its become a matter of defending ones' tradition. Not the Word of God.

grace and peace ...................

 

[Arial]

I see....... BY THE RESURRECTION OF JESUS CHRIST! Only immersion shows forth this blessed truth, pouring or sprinkling, makes light of the gospel message, and its glorious truths.

There is no harm in you looking at it the way that your do. And I understand perfectly why you do. The potential harm is in insisting that your way is the only way, and anyone who does not do as you do or have the same understanding as you do, has less of grace. Personally I was immersed in a lake on a hot summer's day in Nebraska. And that was my choice.

But I am not going to say everyone should do the same or they are missing something. A picture of something is just a picture of something. It is what is in the person's heart and who they are in Christ, when they are baptized with water as a covenant sign of being in the covenant. It is identifying with His death and resurrection. We are all baptized into Christ when we believe.

My mother died at age 95. She came to Christ late in life at age 75 unless she had been redeemed as a child and went off track for many years having been married to a Christian Scientist. That cult hold was not broken off of her until she was 75. But she was raised in the Methodist church and I have no idea what was taught in the sermons she heard. But when she was 12 she was confirmed in the church having met all the requirements as to knowledge and belief of that church and was baptised with sprinkling.

On her deathbed in the hospital recovering from a broken hip, she desperately wanted baptism by immersion. Obviously that was impossible as it would be dangerous. Any pastor who would agree to do such a thing should be jailed. I talked to her about it and at least outwardly she had peace.

 

[Red Baker]

There is no harm in you looking at it the way that your do. And I understand perfectly why you do. The potential harm is in insisting that your way is the only way, and anyone who does not do as you do or have the same understanding as you do, has less of grace. Personally I was immersed in a lake on a hot summer's day in Nebraska. And that was my choice.

But I am not going to say everyone should do the same or they are missing something. A picture of something is just a picture of something. It is what is in the person's heart and who they are in Christ, when they are baptized with water as a covenant sign of being in the covenant. It is identifying with His death and resurrection. We are all baptized into Christ when we believe.

My mother died at age 95. She came to Christ late in life at age 75 unless she had been redeemed as a child and went off track for many years having been married to a Christian Scientist. That cult hold was not broken off of her until she was 75. But she was raised in the Methodist church and I have no idea what was taught in the sermons she heard. But when she was 12 she was confirmed in the church having met all the requirements as to knowledge and belief of that church and was baptised with sprinkling.

On her deathbed in the hospital recovering from a broken hip, she desperately wanted baptism by immersion. Obviously that was impossible as it would be dangerous. Any pastor who would agree to do such a thing should be jailed. I talked to her about it and at least outwardly she had peace.

Brother, your mother being baptized at her age would not had been wise. Baptism is only commanded of those who are physically able. She proved her love for the scriptures by desiring to follow the Lord.

Water baptism has no regenerating power.

 

[Arial]

Brother, your mother being baptized at her age would not had been wise. Baptism is only commanded of those who are physically able. She proved her love for the scriptures by desiring to follow the Lord.

Thank you. One little correction. I am not your brother---I am your sister.

 

[Red Baker]

We are all baptized into Christ when we believe.

Care to elaborate on this? In what sense are you speaking about?

We were chosen in Christ, by God's grace.

We were in Christ while he lived in this world.

We were crucified with Christ when he was crucified

We arose with Christ, when he arose from the dead.

We are seated in the heavenly places IN Christ before we were ever born into this world.

Our faith only gives evidence to these truth.

When we were dead sins, we were loved by Christ, this is not so of those that perish.

We are born of the Spirit before we believe!
Care to elaborate on this? In what sense are you speaking about?

 

[Rella]

I think "Household" is used in a generic sense as we do today and is not indicative of "each and every member without exception" ... so it is esigesis to read "households had infants" or "households had no infants" into the text ... scripture is silent on infants in those three households. It is eisegesis to say "every person without exception, including infants were baptized" or "no infants were baptized" in those verses ... scripture is silent on infant baptism in those three households. The same holds for "belief" of each and every member without exception.

I just don't like building doctrine by reading between the lines. I prefer to just admit that Scripture is silent and admit we have a theological "house of cards" on that specific point (however sturdy we feel our assumptions are). Like the ATONEMENT or Eschatology (scripture says some things, but theology reads a lot into it).

KJV 33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway. and all his
RSV 33 Acts 16:33 "And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their wounds, and he was baptized at once, with all his family."
_________________________________

NLT 33 Then he and everyone in his household were immediately baptized.

ESV 33 he and all his family.

New King James Version
And he took them the same hour of the night and washed their stripes. And immediately he and all his family were baptized.
CSB Right away he and all his family were baptized.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
Right away he and all his family were baptized.
ASV and was baptized, he and all his, immediately.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
immediately he was immersed and all the people of his household.
Contemporary English Version
Then he and everyone in his home were baptized.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
The jailer and his entire family were baptized immediately.
Good News Translation
and he and all his family were baptized at once.
International Standard Version
he and his entire family were baptized immediately.
Literal Standard Version
and immediately he and all of his were immersed
New American Bible
he and all his family were baptized at once.
NET Bible
he and all his family were baptized right away.

New Revised Standard Version
he and his entire family were baptized without delay.
Webster's Bible Translation
was baptized, he and all his, without delay.

 

[atpollard]

Care to elaborate on this? In what sense are you speaking about?

Romans 6 & Galatians 3?

 

[atpollard]

KJV 33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway. and all his
RSV 33 Acts 16:33 "And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their wounds, and he was baptized at once, with all his family."

For reasons stated earlier, I think the family of the Jailer had no small children. It is not CERTAIN (any more than it is CERTAIN that they had an infant), but there is SOME INDICATION that everyone in that specific family heard, believed and was baptized. However, if they were like a modern family with a believing Grandfather, Father, Mother, and four children (two of whom were dragged along to church because "Dad said so") we would still say "The ENTIRE FAMILY was Christian" [while only God knows the truth about the heart]. The BIBLE represents a more "collectivist" over "individualist" culture, so it was common to speak of the Head of a Household making decisions for the Household. That does not preclude the possibility of a "prodigal son" living in the household at the time.

I just do not want to "jump to conclusions" and build doctrines from silence (what is NOT said) by "assuming facts not in evidence".

[Bottom line ... no babies are mentioned: EITHER WAY! = silence.]