Do you believe you need to be baptised (immersed) to be saved?

[Rella]

Do you believe you need to be baptised to be saved?​

Yes, and no, would be the correct answers.

No, as far as being saved from sin and condemnation.

Yes, as far a having a fuller knowledge of Jesus' gospel. You must accept these two truths if you are a diligent student of the word of God.


The salvation under consideration is a practical salvation of having a full ( or, fuller ) knowledge of the gospel of Jesus Christ. Without water baptism one will be lacking in this practical salvation available in hearing, believing, and being baptized into the faith/religion of Jesus Christ.

Water baptism is not the means of of the forgiveness of one's sins~only the blood of Christ (or his life, death, and resurrection) is the only means of God being just and the justifier of the sinner, who truly believes in Jesus Christ.

In Mark 16:15,16 the one that is condemned are ones that does not believe. The ones that is saved from sin and condemnation are believers, yet among them there is a difference~some saved with a clearer more fuller understanding of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Example would help: OT saints were saved from sins and the condemnation of God's law, yet they did not possess the understanding of NT believers where the gospel shines so much brighter than it did in the OT~and where the ordinance of water baptism is required if all possible.

Water Baptism shows forth a few important truths taught in the gospel of Jesus Christ, which the OT saints did not enjoy. Even under the NT, God has regenerated children of God scattered through this world~some of which may have never been baptized, thereby do not enjoy the salvation that is mentioned in Mark 16:16. Save/saved/salvation is used in at least five different senses in the scriptures and we must rightly divide them before we can understand some passages of scriptures, Mark 16:16 is one of those scriptures.

Thanks Red.

Water Baptism shows forth a few important truths taught in the gospel of Jesus Christ, which the OT saints did not enjoy. Even under the NT, God has regenerated children of God scattered through this world~some of which may have never been baptized, thereby do not enjoy the salvation that is mentioned in Mark 16:16. Save/saved/salvation is used in at least five different senses in the scriptures and we must rightly divide them before we can understand some passages of scriptures, Mark 16:16 is one of those scriptures.

I wish you would start a thread dedicated to these 5 that you mention.

Based on this I assume you mean that there are grades to salvation and that not all, IF they make it to heaven, will be one in the same.

This needs a thread of its own but I am not going to start it because I am not setting myself up ever again for what happened with those 13.

But at least here it would not necessarily all men against one woman

 

[3 Resurrections]

I wish you would start a thread dedicated to these 5 that you mention.

He probably means the four types of salvation found in Romans 8:30 (predestination, calling, justification, and glorification), and also the practical salvation found in 1 Timothy 4:16.

 

[Rella]

Hi 3Rs,

Could be but he needs to start a thread for discussion and debate.

They prefer we not branch out from OPs here, and that is an ver valid discussion subject.

Especially as @Red Baker posted...

Water Baptism shows forth a few important truths taught in the gospel of Jesus Christ, which the OT saints did not enjoy. Even under the NT, God has regenerated children of God scattered through this world~some of which may have never been baptized, thereby do not enjoy the salvation that is mentioned in Mark 16:16.

 

[Josheb]

The repentant thief was saved but not baptized. Because of Matthew 7:23 it is easy to understand the reverse is also true (many who are baptized are not saved). A requirement for water baptism would mean someone confessing Christ as Lord and Savior in whom God has worked to effect that confession would not be saved unless and until s/he was baptized in water. That is grace+works salvation. Such a requirement would mean someone confessing faith in Christ and regenerated in the middle of the Sahara, Gobi, Arabian, or Mohave deserts who died before they reached water died still dead in sin and not saved.

However, while those are all valid matters, they are also extreme examples. The normal ordinary example set in the New Testament is for a person to be baptized in both water and Spirit at the time of conversion. Therefore, practice the standard without being legalistic and allow for exceptions to the rule.

 

[Andia]

I thank you all for your opinions.

For my own well being as long as I have to live in this world, I believe I shall follow the majority of those in the poll.

But before leaving this subject... I have started a new thread on James White so as to not divert this one in a different direction.

https://christcentered.community.forum/forums/baptism.56/

Rella, this has caused you all kinds of angst for years - and there has to be a reason for it. What is the reason?

 

[EarlyActs]

We are justified by the righteousness of Christ. We are not justified by the righteousness of Christ plus a particular way of baptising or confessing or repenting.

The righteousness of Christ is historic; it is not something we do or experience. It was His experience, Is 53.

 

[Rella]

Rella, this has caused you all kinds of angst for years - and there has to be a reason for it. What is the reason?

Because of the 13 on that other site that either flat out, or suggested I was not saved and would not be until I got dunked because my sprink ling and confirmation are not recognized by God. And according to them Faith does not cut it.

Thanks for asking and your concern

 

[EarlyActs]

Because of the 13 on that other site that either flat out, or suggested I was not saved and would not be until I got dunked because my sprink ling and confirmation are not recognized by God. And according to them Faith does not cut it.

Thanks for asking and your concern

Maybe this will help: 'neither circumcision nor uncircumcision is anything, only faith which is active by love.' Gal 5. Can you see a helpful comparison?

 

[Rella]

Maybe this will help: 'neither circumcision nor uncircumcision is anything, only faith which is active by love.' Gal 5. Can you see a helpful comparison?

Yes, thank you... but then when the Mark 16:16 is tossed about as a constant reminder.... was that not worded that way for a reason?

NASB 1995
"He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.

The specific order of things.

 

[EarlyActs]

Yes, thank you... but then when the Mark 16:16 is tossed about as a constant reminder.... was that not worded that way for a reason?

NASB 1995
"He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.

The specific order of things.

The best hermeneutic is still that on any given topic we should find the most complete passages. For this see Romans and Galatians on justification.

“Systematic passages should have more weight than isolated references.”

 

[Red Baker]

Water Baptism shows forth a few important truths taught in the gospel of Jesus Christ, which the OT saints did not enjoy. Even under the NT, God has regenerated children of God scattered through this world~some of which may have never been baptized, thereby do not enjoy the salvation that is mentioned in Mark 16:16.

In the morning I will say more. Too busy today. RB

 

[Rella]

Water Baptism shows forth a few important truths taught in the gospel of Jesus Christ, which the OT saints did not enjoy. Even under the NT, God has regenerated children of God scattered through this world~some of which may have never been baptized, thereby do not enjoy the salvation that is mentioned in Mark 16:16.

In the morning I will say more. Too busy today. RB

Well, I could be content with a bail of hay in a corner of heaven.

 

[donadams]

Many folks hang their hats on Mark 16:16 which says....

16 He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned....

believing baptism is absolutely necessary. No excuses.

However, What this verse does not say is it does not say but he who has disbelieved and has NOT been baptised shall be condemned.

What say you?

I know a man who was baptised... immersed... with a group in his teens. He is now 81.

He will tell you to this day he has no idea why he was or went with the group.

So there ARE those who can be baptised for whatever reason and curiosity begs the question

Here!
But not required immersion but
Immersion is a valid form of baptism

Also are required are correct
Intention
Matter
And form!

Thanks

 

[donadams]

Proper intention of valid baptism:

The initiation into the new covenant of grace unto the salvation of the soul, nicene creed, “one baptism for the forgiveness of sins”.

Brought to life. Jn 14:6 eph 2:1 quickened.

Believers baptism is not valid and not found in scripture.
Adult only baptism is not found in scripture.

Proper form of valid baptism:

Valid Christian baptism requires flowing water over the forehead three times.

With the words:

I baptize you in the name of the father and of the son and of the Holy Spirit! Matt 28:19

Immersion, pouring, or sprinkling 3 time with pure water are the valid matter of baptism.

Ez 36:25 I will sprinkle you with clean water and you shall be made white as snow.

Isa 52:15 So shall he sprinkle many nations; (baptism)

1 pet 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied. (Baptism)

Heb 10:22
Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

Examples
Sprinkle, sprinkled, sprinkling:

Blood:
Ex 24:6
Ex 24:8
Ex 29:16
Lev 1:5
2 kings 16:13
2 chron 29:22
1 pet 1:2

Water:
Num 8:7
Num 19:18

Sprinkle: refers to baptismal regeneration!
Isa 52:15
Ez 36:25
Heb 10:22

Immersion is not found in scripture!

 

[Rella]

Proper intention of valid baptism:

The initiation into the new covenant of grace unto the salvation of the soul, nicene creed, “one baptism for the forgiveness of sins”.

Brought to life. Jn 14:6 eph 2:1 quickened.

Believers baptism is not valid and not found in scripture.
Adult only baptism is not found in scripture.

Proper form of valid baptism:

Valid Christian baptism requires flowing water over the forehead three times.

With the words:

I baptize you in the name of the father and of the son and of the Holy Spirit! Matt 28:19

Immersion, pouring, or sprinkling 3 time with pure water are the valid matter of baptism.

Ez 36:25 I will sprinkle you with clean water and you shall be made white as snow.

Isa 52:15 So shall he sprinkle many nations; (baptism)

1 pet 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied. (Baptism)

Heb 10:22
Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

Examples
Sprinkle, sprinkled, sprinkling:

Blood:
Ex 24:6
Ex 24:8
Ex 29:16
Lev 1:5
2 kings 16:13
2 chron 29:22
1 pet 1:2

Water:
Num 8:7
Num 19:18

Sprinkle: refers to baptismal regeneration!
Isa 52:15
Ez 36:25
Heb 10:22

Immersion is not found in scripture!

Thank you very much for all the references.

 

[atpollard]

Do you believe you need to be baptised (immersed) to be saved?​

No ... but it never hurt anyone to obey the Ordinances of God (and it is generally a good idea).

 

[GeneZ]

Many folks hang their hats on Mark 16:16 which says....

16 He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned....

believing baptism is absolutely necessary. No excuses.

Jesus was speaking of what was about to happen.

Were not those who believed in Acts 2 baptized? Baptized in the Holy Spirit.

 

[TonyChanYT]

Many folks hang their hats on Mark 16:16 which says....

16 He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned....

believing baptism is absolutely necessary. No excuses.

However, What this verse does not say is it does not say but he who has disbelieved and has NOT been baptised shall be condemned.

What say you?

I know a man who was baptised... immersed... with a group in his teens. He is now 81.

He will tell you to this day he has no idea why he was or went with the group.

So there ARE those who can be baptised for whatever reason and curiosity begs the question

The book of Didache was written in the first century AD. Didache:

And concerning baptism, baptize this way: Having first said all these things, baptize into the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, in living water. But if you have no living water, baptize into other water; and if you cannot do so in cold water, do so in warm. But if you have neither, pour out water three times upon the head into the name of Father and Son and Holy Spirit.

Was baptism always by immersion?

No. Didache was being pragmatic, offering different modes of baptism. The preference was full immersion in a body of running water.

Strong's Greek: 907. βαπτίζω (baptizó) — 81 Occurrences

The primary meaning of G907 was to immerse, but there were other senses. BDAG:

In Gk. lit. gener. to put or go under water in a variety of senses, also fig., e.g. ‘soak’

① wash ceremonially for purpose of purification, wash, purify, of a broad range of repeated ritual washing rooted in Israelite tradition.

② to use water in a rite for purpose of renewing or establishing a relationship w. God, plunge, dip, wash, baptize. The transliteration ‘baptize’ signifies the ceremonial character that NT narratives accord such cleansing, but the need of qualifying statements or contextual coloring in the documents indicates that the term β. was not nearly so technical as the transliteration suggests.

③ to cause someone to have an extraordinary experience akin to an initiatory water-rite, to plunge, baptize.

 

[donadams]

Many folks hang their hats on Mark 16:16 which says....

16 He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned....

believing baptism is absolutely necessary. No excuses.

However, What this verse does not say is it does not say but he who has disbelieved and has NOT been baptised shall be condemned.

What say you?

I know a man who was baptised... immersed... with a group in his teens. He is now 81.

He will tell you to this day he has no idea why he was or went with the group.

So there ARE those who can be baptised for whatever reason and curiosity begs the question

Need to change the poll

Baptized yes!
Immersion no!

 

[Rella]

I suppose this should be modified also to say... "BUT ONLY IF ONE HAS REACHED THE AGE OF UNDERSTANDING" . That anything done by someone including an ordained minister or priest before then is null and void.