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How Are We Saved?

How Are We Saved?

  • By receiving the baptism with the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • By joining the Roman Catholic Church

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • By water baptism in Jesus's name for the remission of sins

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • By keeping the sabbath commandment

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • By joining Jehovah's Witnesses

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • By joining Mormonism

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    13
You did not respond to what I pointed out.
Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
1Co 2:4 and my speech and my message were not in plausible words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power,
1Co 2:5 so that your faith might not rest in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.

Rev 19:10 Then I fell down at his feet to worship him, but he said to me, “You must not do that! I am a fellow servant with you and your brothers who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God.” For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
1 Corinthians references is Paul citing how he was speaking as not from himself but by the power and of the Holy Spirit in him.

Revelation 19:10 as prophesy is edification and so any edification shall come in light of the testimony of Jesus Christ.

When you consider Jesus's words for how His disciples shall be speaking when He was on earth:

Matthew 10:19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. 20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.
And how the words spoken is not the words of the Holy Spirit but of Christ's for the Spirit speaks what He hears from Christ....

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Then I am pointing out how the Holy Spirit will defer all credit & glory to Jesus Christ for all that the Holy Spirit says and do.

John 16:14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Why? Below is why.

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
 
While that is true since no human can be 100% right about what they believe in the bible we can glean understanding from those who know the original languages of the bible and the times, places, culture of the bible.

Are you saying seminary has no value ?
No, but whether it be creeds or the Catechism, we are to prove everything by Jesus Christ and not take anything at face value; not Strong's Concordance; not a long held church practice or tradition, and not anything we think we had gleaned as learning from Him; we are to trust Jesus Christ to expose the works of darkness and correct our testimony to be better and of the truth with no contrariness within it.
Also do you believe what you believe is 100% correct ?
Depends on what issues of faith & truths we are talking about from the scripture.

I trust the Lord to correct me by the scriptures as He prompts me to edify or correct others by the scriptures of which I see this as an iron sharpen iron ministry that is His to perform.

Proverbs 11:25 The liberal soul shall be made fat: and he that watereth shall be watered also himself.

I expect to be watered while He is enabling me to water. That is the only way we can grow and be pruned to be more fruitful.

John 15:1I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. 2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

Is there any issue of faith or truth that you are led to by the Lord to address me with by inquiry or to correct by the scripture with?
 
God would have used someone else to guide us in not being tossed around by every wind of doctrine.

Barnes was better gifted than me in showing that Faith as rendered in Gal 5:20 is not the faith you are referring to.

Your eyes are closed to that
Well, I rely on the Lord to show me that truth in His words rather than Barnes.

There is nothing wrong with going to commentaries, but like anything else whether it be a sermon from the pulpit, a daily reading booklet, a hymn, Strong's Concordance, & even creeds, we are to trust Jesus Christ as our own personal Good Shepherd to prove everything with Him by the scriptures and not take everything at face value. We are to be even more on guard when watching supposedly Christian movies too.
 
So everything you teach comes straight from God?
I hope in Jesus Christ that He is enabling me to share the talents He has given me in the knowledge of Him to edify & warn others of apostasy.

But I am also hoping in Him to correct me by the scriptures as well so as to prune me to bear more fruit as His disciple & be a better witness by His grace & by His help for I can do nothing without Him.

John 15:1I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. 2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

So I do not want to resist any correction from others that He confirms to me as true so that I may bear more fruit as His disciple.
 
No, but whether it be creeds or the Catechism, we are to prove everything by Jesus Christ and not take anything at face value; not Strong's Concordance; not a long held church practice or tradition, and not anything we think we had gleaned as learning from Him; we are to trust Jesus Christ to expose the works of darkness and correct our testimony to be better and of the truth with no contrariness within it.

Depends on what issues of faith & truths we are talking about from the scripture.

I trust the Lord to correct me by the scriptures as He prompts me to edify or correct others by the scriptures of which I see this as an iron sharpen iron ministry that is His to perform.

Proverbs 11:25 The liberal soul shall be made fat: and he that watereth shall be watered also himself.

I expect to be watered while He is enabling me to water. That is the only way we can grow and be pruned to be more fruitful.

John 15:1I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. 2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

Is there any issue of faith or truth that you are led to by the Lord to address me with by inquiry or to correct by the scripture with?
I haven’t interacted long enough with you on what is considered essential doctrine to know what would need correction on such topics as the Trinity, Deity of Christ, humanity of Christ , the gospel , the bodily Resurrection, Ascension and 2nd Coming of Jesus just to name a few off of the top of my head.
 
I haven’t interacted long enough with you on what is considered essential doctrine to know what would need correction on such topics as the Trinity, Deity of Christ, humanity of Christ , the gospel , the bodily Resurrection, Ascension and 2nd Coming of Jesus just to name a few off of the top of my head.
I tagged you to this thread to read that last post; but just in case it did not work;

How Do We honor God the Father in Worship?

This is another false teaching out there where believers are told to seek a filling of the Holy Spirit in principle from Ephesians 5:18 when it is just a call to remain sober as in self control; temperance being a fruit of the Spirit and yet in a blink of an eye, they are applying that to mean being filled supernaturally again with the Holy Spirit for signs or healings or whatever.
 
I tagged you to this thread to read that last post; but just in case it did not work;

How Do We honor God the Father in Worship?

This is another false teaching out there where believers are told to seek a filling of the Holy Spirit in principle from Ephesians 5:18 when it is just a call to remain sober as in self control; temperance being a fruit of the Spirit and yet in a blink of an eye, they are applying that to mean being filled supernaturally again with the Holy Spirit for signs or healings or whatever.
I don’t believe in any 2nd blessing . Either one has the Holy Spirit or they don’t. They obey Him and are filled not quenching the Spirit because they are walking in the Spirit and not in the flesh and the by product is seeing the fruit of the Spirit.
 
I don’t believe in any 2nd blessing . Either one has the Holy Spirit or they don’t. They obey Him and are filled not quenching the Spirit because they are walking in the Spirit and not in the flesh and the by product is seeing the fruit of the Spirit.
These are professing believers that have gone astray by believing that lie that they can receive Him again. Paul was talking about in in 2 Thessalonians 2nd chapter as that cause for that falling away from the faith in Jesus Christ as he reminded them of the tradition taught of us in verse 13-15 of when we had received the sanctification of the Spirit & the belief of the truth at the calling of the gospel.

2 Thessalonians 2nd Chapter

Paul goes on to address those that have fallen away from the faith in the next chapter in verses 1-7 as walking disorderly and not after the traditions taught of us and yet in commanding us to withdraw from them, we are not to treat them as the enemy but admonish them as brothers in verses 14-15 of that 3rd chapter of 2 Thessalonians.

2 Thessalonians 3rd Chapter

I thank the Lord for you that He is keeping you from falling as I hope in Him that He will present you faultless as well as for me for when He comes.
 
So they lost their salvation?
No. They are still brothers per 2 Thessalonians 3:14-15 but at risk of being condemned as 2 Thessalonians 2:9 says in becoming left behind as that vessel unto dishonor in His House, vessels of wood & earth, for not looking to Him for help to discern & to depart from iniquity before He comes.

They lost their first inheritance to be that vessel unto honor in His House, vessels of gold & silver unless they repent in time before the Bridegroom comes.
 
Well, I rely on the Lord to show me that truth in His words rather than Barnes.
Well so either you are right and Barnes is wrong, which by implication means Barnes did not rely on God to show him the truth, and he is a false expositor of the Bible.

We all now need to listen to and accept YOUR interpretations.

I suggest you take a good long look at yourself and your vanity. Go read what Barnes actually wrote without just dismissing it and making him out to be a heretic.
 
So those who apostatize from the faith are still saved?
@civic

Yes. Those unrepentant saints & former believers that will be denied by Him and left behind are still saved because He still abides.

2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

That is where and how you have vessels unto dishonor, vessels of wood & earth, but still in His House testifying to the power of God in salvation for all who believe in Him, even in His name; John 1:12-13. He will burn off all that offends off of that foundation that He has laid in that believer verse 11 as they will die, verses 16-17, but the spirit is saved verse 15 in that day when He judges His House first verse 13 with 1 Peter 4:17.

1 Corinthians 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. 16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
1 Peter 4:1Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; 2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.
3 For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries: 4 Wherein they think it strange that ye run not with them to the same excess of riot, speaking evil of you: 5 Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead.

16 Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? 19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.

If you are wondering if Peter meant that saved believers can lose their salvation per verse 18, the answer is no because he was exhorting believers in the latter days when mockers will walk after their ungodly lusts to endure to the end so that the believers will be saved from what is coming on the earth; God's fiery judgment which is in relation to His global flood judgment on the earth on mankind's wickedness in 2 Peter 3:3-15

2 Peter 3:3-15 KJV Link provided.
 
Well so either you are right and Barnes is wrong, which by implication means Barnes did not rely on God to show him the truth, and he is a false expositor of the Bible.

We all now need to listen to and accept YOUR interpretations.

I suggest you take a good long look at yourself and your vanity. Go read what Barnes actually wrote without just dismissing it and making him out to be a heretic.
How about I ask you to do what the Bible tells us believers to do and prove everything; Barnes and mine with Jesus Christ by the scripture?

James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. 6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. 7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord. 8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 22 Abstain from all appearance of evil. 23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it. 25 Brethren, pray for us.

Only Jesus Christ can confirm the word & the truth to you through the Holy Spirit in you.

1 John 2:20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things. 21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. 27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. 28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.
 
How about I ask you to do what the Bible tells us believers to do and prove everything; Barnes and mine with Jesus Christ by the scripture?
I already did and find Barnes has it spot-on as to what the scriptures are saying.

You do know that Faith is a spiritual gift!
Rom 12:3 For by the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think with sober judgment, each according to the measure of faith that God has assigned.
 
I already did and find Barnes has it spot-on as to what the scriptures are saying.

You do know that Faith is a spiritual gift!
Rom 12:3 For by the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think with sober judgment, each according to the measure of faith that God has assigned.
We were discussing the difference between a believer's faithfulness and the fruit of the Spirit which is faith. Yes, faith is a gift and you are flipping the coin to my side of the issue for how the ESV was translating it and how you were seemingly applying that to mean as being about the believer.

No believer will be bragging about their faithfulness when that faith stems from the fruit of the Spirit. Just to be clear.

Galatians 5:22-23 is about the faith we have as it is a gift because of that being the fruit of the Spirit as the Holy Spirit is also been considered a gift as well at our salvation moment when we were born again of the Spirit so we can believe in Jesus Christ.
 
We were discussing the difference between a believer's faithfulness and the fruit of the Spirit which is faith. Yes, faith is a gift and you are flipping the coin to my side of the issue for how the ESV was translating it and how you were seemingly applying that to mean as being about the believer.

No believer will be bragging about their faithfulness when that faith stems from the fruit of the Spirit. Just to be clear.

Galatians 5:22-23 is about the faith we have as it is a gift because of that being the fruit of the Spirit as the Holy Spirit is also been considered a gift as well at our salvation moment when we were born again of the Spirit so we can believe in Jesus Christ.
Faith is a also something we do, we believe and we act upon as taught in Hebrews the 11th chapter.
 
God grants the faith, we do the believing.

Yes. Now, I do not believe that Hebrews 11:6 is about how one is saved, but is of the saved, just an FYI.
I liken it to sanctification. God sanctifies us and we are also responsible to sanctify the Lord in our hearts. As RC Sproul pointed out sanctification is synergestic. Its not either or its and and both. I think faith works the same way. What do you think ?
 
Faith is a also something we do, we believe and we act upon as taught in Hebrews the 11th chapter.
Same with any fruit of the Spirit like love but in application to what Galatians 5:22-23 is about as opposing the works of the flesh is why Barnes commentary of that reference in the ESV is off. It is not a lie but the intent of that message was to show the works of the flesh of what we are not to sow towards as opposed to the fruit of the Spirit which are hereby Jesus Christ when we place our confidence in him to do & to finish.

By the grace of God and confidence in His help, His supplying the fruit of the Spirit is Him enabling us to follow Him.
 
Well, how are we saved will be deferring from how we are not saved by.
Do you mean "differing," and not "deferring"? If not, then please further clarify.
Like some will refer to James words of faith without works; which is one of the choices in the poll;

Transferring a post from the amended poll one to this reply for case in point......
James is writing about the relationship between faith and works from a context different than Paul and James is explicitly writing about the life of faith and works in the lives of the already saved, NOT the yet to be saved. NOTHING in James' epistle has anything to do with soteriological conversion from death to life; not a single word of it. The entirety of his commentary in James 1-2 is that solely of the already regenerate convert writing to the already regenerate convert about the already regenerate convert. Absolutely nothing in those two chapters is about how the already regenerate convert went from being an unregenerate non-convert to a regenerate convert. Nothing. The entirety of James' commentary is about the place of faith and works in the life of the post-converted believer. He opens the letter calling himself, "a bondservant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ," and writing to the "twelve tribes," calls his readers his "brethren," adding, "In the exercise of His will He brought us forth by the word of truth, so that we would be a kind of first fruits among His creatures." His readers are the brethren of first-fruit bondservants in Christ, not non-believers.

Doubt me? Get out your Bible and read the text for yourself. Pay close attention to any mention of anyone who is not already a Christian. You will find there are no such mentions. Not explicitly, not implied, not remotely insinuated. None.







(Paul, on the other hand, is much more diverse in his expositions. He writes about both the not-yet converted and the already-converted. The two should not be conflated)
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Faith is a also something we do, we believe and we act upon as taught in Hebrews the 11th chapter.
Faith, being a gift from God, is ours, once we have been given it. It is like being given a new heart, by a surgeon: once you have it, it's active, pumping blood round your body. In the same way, once you have been given faith, it's active, trusting in and relying upon the Lord Jesus Christ.
 
Do you mean "differing," and not "deferring"? If not, then please further clarify.
Deferring.

Romans 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. 27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

Romans 11;5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

We are saved by faith in Jesus Christ without works whereas deferring from those that say faith without works is dead as if applying to that faith in Jesus Christ for salvation when James was talking about the church's supposed faith in God to provide to the poor & rebuking the church for applying that faith in God to provide for the poor to get out of helping the poor that were in immediate need for food & clothing.
James is writing about the relationship between faith and works from a context different than Paul and James is explicitly writing about the life of faith and works in the lives of the already saved, NOT the yet to be saved. NOTHING in James' epistle has anything to do with soteriological conversion from death to life; not a single word of it. The entirety of his commentary in James 1-2 is that solely of the already regenerate convert writing to the already regenerate convert about the already regenerate convert. Absolutely nothing in those two chapters is about how the already regenerate convert went from being an unregenerate non-convert to a regenerate convert. Nothing. The entirety of James' commentary is about the place of faith and works in the life of the post-converted believer. He opens the letter calling himself, "a bondservant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ," and writing to the "twelve tribes," calls his readers his "brethren," adding, "In the exercise of His will He brought us forth by the word of truth, so that we would be a kind of first fruits among His creatures." His readers are the brethren of first-fruit bondservants in Christ, not non-believers.

Doubt me? Get out your Bible and read the text for yourself. Pay close attention to any mention of anyone who is not already a Christian. You will find there are no such mentions. Not explicitly, not implied, not remotely insinuated. None.

(Paul, on the other hand, is much more diverse in his expositions. He writes about both the not-yet converted and the already-converted. The two should not be conflated)
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I would ask you to revisit the issue in James 2nd chapter with Jesus Christ as James was never talking about faith in Jesus Christ but rebuking the church for applying verbalizing their faith in God to provide for the poor to get out of helping the poor. This is how and why it is the church's faith that will not profit the poor nor save the poor when in the eyes of the poor, the church's faith in God to provide is dead.

Do not use commentaries but seek wisdom from the Lord.

James referenced Abraham and Isaac as an historical example of the kind of faith he was talking about in how God provides for His servants. The name of that place proves it.

Genesis 22:7 And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering? 8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.

13 And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son. 14 And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovahjireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the Lord it shall be seen.

Since James & Peter share the right hand of fellowship with Paul proves many believers are applying the words of James' wrong.

Galatians 2:7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; 8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:) 9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.
So there was an agreement that they all shared the same gospel otherwise Paul could not say this earlier in that same epistle.


Galatians 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Paul did say this in how Abraham was actually justified by believing God and not by works.

Romans 4:1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? 2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. 3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. 4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. 6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, 7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

So there are just grounds to revisit James words again in Chapter 2 as James was rebuking the church for disrespecting the poor in showing favoritism to the rich from the beginning of that chapter and goes on to expose how they try to use faith in God to provide to the poor just to get out of helping the poor.
 
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