FATE OF THE UNREACHED

[Carbon]

If I may jump in here. There are a few scriptures I will bring up. If someone already has, I apologize. I have not read the entire thread.

We know from Eph 2:8-9 that it is God who gives the faith necessary for salvation, and that he does so by grace. For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

We read in Romans 12:3 that faith is given to individuals according to the measure of faith that God has assigned. For by the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think of himself more highly that he ought to think, but to think with sober judgement, each according to the measure of faith that God has assigned. That too, by grace.

If we look back to Abraham who was long before the coming of Christ, and yet serves as the father to those who have faith, we find Jesus saying this about that in John 8:56 Your Father Abraham rejoiced that he would see my day. He saw it and was glad."

That last Scripture tells us that we do not from the biblical account of events, all that is the minds of those with faith in the OT. Jesus here reveals one thing that was in Abraham's mind and thoughts. He saw something not yet revealed.

If we take out of the equation the idea that the necessary faith for salvation is something we do and have, and turn again to remember that salvation is monergistic through and through; That all of God's sheep, past, present, and future, will hear the voice of Christ and follow him; then we realize God does what God does in the way that he does it. Christ has always been God. Christ has always been present in the activity of God. He did not begin being God when he came as one of us and died in our place. That is when he became God and man. His coming is not the beginning of redemption. It is redemption accomplished.

Amen

 

[makesends]

There is only one way of knowing that that person has eternal life~it comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. But, that being said, our faith which is so imperfect is not the means of receiving the forgiveness of sin, that comes by the faith and obedience of one person, Jesus Christ. Galatians 2:16; Romans 5:19; etc.

Salvation from sin and condemnation is through the obedience of one person~Jesus Christ, God's Son secured eternal life for God's elect by himself~we believe in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by his life alone, not by any work that we have done, or will do.

Romans 3:22​

“Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:”

I remember from childhood till (it seems) not so many years ago, the jump in logical sequence necessary for the mechanics of salvation through faith, or even belief, as the MEANS of receiving the forgiveness of sins, and any other virtue or benefit accompanying salvation, including, and maybe especially including, regeneration. "Reward" was always the notion that came to mind, suggested by the structure built by what I had been taught. No matter what I did to configure logical sequence, I always had to come to the conclusion that either I was still young in the faith and had a lot to learn, or that I had to simply take it by faith that it was so. But instinctively I knew that "reward" didn't add up —not for me; not for anyone.

The sudden realization that faith is a gift, generated by the Spirit of God within, gave that faith the substance it needed in my thinking. Not only is the faith therefore REAL, in commitment, understanding and any other fact, because the Spirit of God is the one producing it, who is God himself, but it is substantive in that he continues to be the one producing it, and will never stop being its source. It is only through HIM that I am changed and saved. HE is the rivers of living water. The whole Gospel 'came alive' for me upon realizing this is not something anybody but God can do. It is not a mechanical formula for me to step into, but a work of God, from beginning to end.

 

[Arial]

I add to my post #60, what I was thinking but did not add, a summary.

The faith that places us in Christ is not quantitative, it is qualitative. It is given by God for the express purpose of placing them in Christ. Whatever the measure of faith, it does exactly what God gave it to do.

 

[fastfredy0]

I remember from childhood till (it seems) not so many years ago,

... hmmm, are you saying your are a teenager now or early 20s?

 

[fastfredy0]

The faith that places us in Christ is not quantitative, it is qualitative. It is given by God for the express purpose of placing them in Christ. Whatever the measure of faith, it does exactly what God gave it to do.

While Evangelicals are basically united in their proclamation of salvation by grace through faith, and most agree that faith is a personal relationship with Christ rather than a belief in a list of doctrines. These two authors agree:

Calvin, John. Institutes of the Christian Religion: We shall now have a full definition of faith if we say that it is a firm and sure knowledge of the divine favor toward us, founded on the truth of a free promise in Christ. Faith consists more of certainty than discernment.”

Herman Bavinck – Reformed Dogmatics: There is a danger in reducing the faith to quantitative measurement. Such an arithmetic of belief obscures the qualitative, gracious, person, organic relation to Christ. Faith is trust in the grace of God and not calculable. The content of faith is not reducible to an arithmetic addition of articles. All believers, in principle, share the same knowledge and trust in the grace of God to save.
That being said, there are a few quantitative aspects IMO. In the current era one must know of Christ; I've already listed 10ish verses to back this up. Granted the specific knowledge of Christ is qualitative IMO but one aspect of the knowledge of Christ may not be qualitative: IMO, one must believe Christ is God (I can list 4ish verses if asked).
Finally, and this one I am not sure of ... and R.C. Sproul he seems to hesitantly agree that the belief in ones own works for salvation may put one in peril (Gal. 5:2-6)

 

[Red Baker]

We know from Eph 2:8-9 that it is God who gives the faith necessary for salvation, and that he does so by grace. For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Dear sister, with all due respect, that is not what Paul is teaching in Ephesians 2:4-8.

In Ephesians 2:8 we have a classic example of an metonymy. The only faith that saves us legally is the faith of Christ, for no man can have faith in God, the faith that meets the requirement of a Royal law, a faith that is produce by perfect obedience to its laws! Jesus Christ alone had the faith that honoured God's law in all points, from conception, to death, in thoughts, words, and deeds ~ and this faith alone is the means of man's free justification. This faith is not of ourselves, it is the gift of God secured for God's elect by our surety, Jesus Christ. The power of this faith is given to us in regeneration when the Spirit of God creates a new man within us after the image of his Son, Jesus Christ.

Example of a metonymy: if you are at a friend's house and they offer you some wine, and you say: 'I'd love to have a glass', you are using a metonymy, since the 'glass' is just the container of what you would love to have.

When a man hears and believes, it is not the old man (for that is impossible) but his new man that is a creative work in God's elect by the almighty power of God~this birth happens to a child of God sometimes after conception and before death, and is evidenced by faith and obedience to the word of God. Two prime examples of this is John the the Baptist and the thief on the cross.

I could spend more time proving the metonymy in Ephesians 2:8 by the context in just before verse 8, in verses: 4-6..."But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:"

We were IN CHRIST from all eternity, even while he lived in this world and in his death and resurrection, which secured our redemption for us. What he did, it was as though we did it, what happen to Christ happened to us legally speaking two thousand years ago.

Maybe more later on this crucial point of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

 

[makesends]

makesends said:
I remember from childhood till (it seems) not so many years ago,

... hmmm, are you saying your are a teenager now or early 20s?

Let me change your emphasis: I remember from childhood till (it seems) not so many years ago,

When I consider how long I have accepted as true, what I have been told was Reformed Theology, it doesn't seem that long ago. But looking back, it has been almost half my life. The better half!

 

[Arial]

Dear sister, with all due respect, that is not what Paul is teaching in Ephesians 2:4-8.

In Ephesians 2:8 we have a classic example of an metonymy. The only faith that saves us legally is the faith of Christ, for no man can have faith in God, the faith that meets the requirement of a Royal law, a faith that is produce by perfect obedience to its laws! Jesus Christ alone had the faith that honoured God's law in all points, from conception, to death, in thoughts, words, and deeds ~ and this faith alone is the means of man's free justification. This faith is not of ourselves, it is the gift of God secured for God's elect by our surety, Jesus Christ. The power of this faith is given to us in regeneration when the Spirit of God creates a new man within us after the image of his Son, Jesus Christ.

The unwavering faith that Jesus possessed and acted upon is part and parcel of righteousness. Without it he could not have obeyed the law perfectly or gone to the cross. It is part and parcel of his righteousness that is imputed to us. The faith that God gives us is an ability to put our trust in the person and work of Christ. To believe it. If you read carefully what I said, I said that the faith is given to us by God and is not of ourselves. And yes, it is regeneration. Unbelief to belief.

We were IN CHRIST from all eternity, even while he lived in this world and in his death and resurrection, which secured our redemption for us. What he did, it was as though we did it, what happen to Christ happened to us legally speaking two thousand years ago.

We were elect to be in Christ from all eternity. We were not in him until by the grace of God and the gift of faith, he placed us there. The new birth. The Holy Spirit applying the work of Christ to the person. Christ died for those God was giving him two thousand years ago, and he has been gathering them in ever since, and will continue to do so until he returns. This is done by the preaching of the gospel in one form or another. It does not come about identically for all people, but belief is there. We cannot believe what we do not hear.

 

[makesends]

While Evangelicals are basically united in their proclamation of salvation by grace through faith, and most agree that faith is a personal relationship with Christ rather than a belief in a list of doctrines. These two authors agree:

Calvin, John. Institutes of the Christian Religion: We shall now have a full definition of faith if we say that it is a firm and sure knowledge of the divine favor toward us, founded on the truth of a free promise in Christ. Faith consists more of certainty than discernment.”

Herman Bavinck – Reformed Dogmatics: There is a danger in reducing the faith to quantitative measurement. Such an arithmetic of belief obscures the qualitative, gracious, person, organic relation to Christ. Faith is trust in the grace of God and not calculable. The content of faith is not reducible to an arithmetic addition of articles. All believers, in principle, share the same knowledge and trust in the grace of God to save.
That being said, there are a few quantitative aspects IMO. In the current era one must know of Christ; I've already listed 10ish verses to back this up. Granted the specific knowledge of Christ is qualitative IMO but one aspect of the knowledge of Christ may not be qualitative: IMO, one must believe Christ is God (I can list 4ish verses if asked).
Finally, and this one I am not sure of ... and R.C. Sproul he seems to hesitantly agree that the belief in ones own works for salvation may put one in peril (Gal. 5:2-6)

But you would agree, would you not, that in the end it is God who both gives and judges the faith. Our brains are not up to the task of securing sure quantitative knowledge, but the Spirit of God is most definitely up to it.

But I agree with you to a point. To my thinking, the result is a little like the result of regeneration. There will be evidences. If one has salvific faith, it will be of a kind, and bear characteristics; for example: His sheep know his voice. We ask in His Name, and we gather in His Name. It is Jesus Christ that we obey and long for!

 

[Arial]

That being said, there are a few quantitative aspects IMO. In the current era one must know of Christ; I've already listed 10ish verses to back this up. Granted the specific knowledge of Christ is qualitative IMO but one aspect of the knowledge of Christ may not be qualitative: IMO, one must believe Christ is God (I can list 4ish verses if asked).

I tend to agree in part and disagree in part---and though I will voice my view, in the end it is God who determines the condition of a person's heart, for he is the one who changes or does not change a heart.

I don't think one has to know of the deity of Christ beyond a sincere agreement with the teaching on it. And it is possible that a person comes to Christ not knowing the doctrine of the Trinity. In my own experience in all the many churches I attended, as I traveled a lot, it was not so much as mentioned, let alone the topic of discussion. Yet somehow it was understood. Jesus was not created. He was much more than that. The first time I heard it stated that Jesus is God was 15 years in a church I had not attended before. So a lot of it is learning as we grow.

What I do think is disqualifying is outright denying his deity and particularly, making a mission of it. That is a different Jesus than the one who hung on a cross and died to redeem a people for God. It makes a mockery of the cross while at the same time they declare that Jesus died for the forgiveness of sin. It elevates a creature to the same status and duties of God. It is imo nothing less than idol worship.

A note of the video. A good one. However---there is one board dedicated to videos where they all go. To connect it to your post, you can post it in videos and in the post, direct people to it. Such as "See video of Sproul on the subject-"--and give the address. I don't know if I can, and if I can how to, move just the video if it is in the middle of a post, so I will leave it in place.

 

[fastfredy0]

But you would agree, would you not, that in the end it is God who both gives and judges the faith. Our brains are not up to the task of securing sure quantitative knowledge, but the Spirit of God is most definitely up to it.

Agreed. As previously stated we are given varying amounts of faith too.

Our brains are not up to the task

Well, my brain isn't up to the task, but you're pretty smart so I can't speak for your brain.

There will be evidences. If one has salvific faith, it will be of a kind, and bear characteristics; for example: His sheep know his voice. We ask in His Name, and we gather in His Name. It is Jesus Christ that we obey and long for!

Well put. I can only evaluate my faith by observing the effects of God's work and comparing it to God's "assurance of faith" check list.

 

[fastfredy0]

I don't think one has to know of the deity of Christ beyond a sincere agreement with the teaching on it. And it is possible that a person comes to Christ not knowing the doctrine of the Trinity. In my own experience in all the many churches I attended, as I traveled a lot, it was not so much as mentioned, let alone the topic of discussion. Yet somehow it was understood. Jesus was not created. He was much more than that. The first time I heard it stated that Jesus is God was 15 years in a church I had not attended before. So a lot of it is learning as we grow.

Interesting. General agreement.
Gee, when it comes to the Trinity the top theologians say it's a mystery to some degree.
When I say one must know Christ is God I agree that the definition of God is a qualitative thing.
My verses for say I believe one must know Jesus is God are:
John 20:31, 1 John 2:22, 1 John 4:3 and 1 John 5:13

What I do think is disqualifying is outright denying his deity and particularly, making a mission of it. ... It elevates a creature to the same status and duties of God. It is imo nothing less than idol worship.

Hmmm, that may be a better way of putting it. I was about to comment above that perhaps it's more the believing the Jesus is not just a man, but a God-man.

A note of the video. A good one. However---there is one board dedicated to videos where they all go. To connect it to your post, you can post it in videos and in the post, direct people to it. Such as "See video of Sproul on the subject-"--and give the address. I don't know if I can, and if I can how to, move just the video if it is in the middle of a post, so I will leave it in place.

Ooops, I forgot I had to do something. My bad. You can erase the link if you wish (not that you need my permission).

 

[makesends]

I can only evaluate my faith by observing the effects of God's work and comparing it to God's "assurance of faith" check list.

Oh NO!!!! I'm done for! God have mercy!

 

[fastfredy0]

Oh NO!!!! I'm done for! God have mercy!

Pffft ... I'll probably be one of your servants in heaven.
When you get there look for me .... I'll be in the very back row ... beside the thief that was on the cross.
(Yeah, I know I shouldn't judge the thief)

I also see your reaction score on this site is much higher than mine. It's another indication of you higher heavenly standing.

 

[David1701]

There is only one way of knowing that that person has eternal life~it comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. But, that being said, our faith which is so imperfect is not the means of receiving the forgiveness of sin, that comes by the faith and obedience of one person, Jesus Christ. Galatians 2:16; Romans 5:19; etc.

Salvation from sin and condemnation is through the obedience of one person~Jesus Christ, God's Son secured eternal life for God's elect by himself~we believe in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by his life alone, not by any work that we have done, or will do.

Romans 3:22​

“Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:”

Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved. Everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life.

It's clear that the faith that God gives his elect, is the means through which God gives us salvation (including forgiveness of sins and being declared righteous).

Re. Romans 3:22 - "...faith of Jesus Christ..." could be an objective genitive (i.e. the faith of which Jesus Christ is the object) or a subjective genitive (i.e. Jesus Christ's faith). The version you have quoted has left it ambiguous, which is a good option; however, you have begged the question, by assuming that it's a subjective genitive.

 

[Red Baker]

The unwavering faith that Jesus possessed

Jesus' faith was not just unwavering, his faith was perfect form conception to his death ~ you and I can have unwavering faith, yet fall way short of perfection. I would think you would agree with this after consideration of what I just said.

acted upon is part and parcel of righteousness

Sorry, I'm not sure what you mean by these words...."is part and parcel"??

The righteousness of God is revealed in the gospel~that is, the righteousness that God provided for his elect for them to inherit eternal life, which was secured for them by Jesus Christ's faith and obedience alone~our new man created within us at the new birth, causes us to put our faith, (even though so imperfect) in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by his perfect righteousness that he rendered unto the law of God for us. Jesus' faith and obedience is the total and complete means of our free justification by God's grace freely given to us through his Son.

The faith that God gives us is an ability to put our trust in the person and work of Christ. To believe it.

When it is said that faith is given unto us, the overall teaching of the scriptures means that by the very fact when God regenerates his children, the power to beleive IS THERE in their new man~God just does not give faith and then regenerate his children, he first create a new man within them that has the power to believe even though it is weak and imperfect, and must grow over time to please him, yet the power to do so IS THERE. The apostles are a perfect example of this truth~though they believe and were sure that Christ had the words of eternal, they still were far from being where they were later on in the Acts of the apostles. Faith that provides the new birth for us had to be perfect which Jesus' faith was~this is the teaching of Ephesians two that I spoke upon above. Faith that saves us from sin and condemnation is not of ourselves in any way whatsoever.

If you read carefully what I said, I said that the faith is given to us by God and is not of ourselves. And yes, it is regeneration. Unbelief to belief.

Reading others posts carefully is something I do, to make sure I never misrepresent others teachings.

Faith is given to us by the very fact that God first quicken us to life by creating a new man within us according to his power, grace, promises and oath. But, our faith has no part in us being regenerated by God's Spirit, none whatsoever.

We were not in him until by the grace of God and the gift of faith, he placed us there.

Let me come back to this one point after a meeting this morning.

 

[David1701]

Jesus' faith was not just unwavering, his faith was perfect form conception to his death ~ you and I can have unwavering faith, yet fall way short of perfection. I would think you would agree with this after consideration of what I just said.

Sorry, I'm not sure what you mean by these words...."is part and parcel"??

The righteousness of God is revealed in the gospel~that is, the righteousness that God provided for his elect for them to inherit eternal life, which was secured for them by Jesus Christ's faith and obedience alone~our new man created within us at the new birth, causes us to put our faith, (even though so imperfect) in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by his perfect righteousness that he rendered unto the law of God for us. Jesus' faith and obedience is the total and complete means of our free justification by God's grace freely given to us through his Son.

When it is said that faith is given unto us, the overall teaching of the scriptures means that by the very fact when God regenerates his children, the power to beleive IS THERE in their new man~God just does not give faith and then regenerate his children, he first create a new man within them that has the power to believe even though it is weak and imperfect, and must grow over time to please him, yet the power to do so IS THERE. The apostles are a perfect example of this truth~though they believe and were sure that Christ had the words of eternal, they still were far from being where they were later on in the Acts of the apostles. Faith that provides the new birth for us had to be perfect which Jesus' faith was~this is the teaching of Ephesians two that I spoke upon above. Faith that saves us from sin and condemnation is not of ourselves in any way whatsoever.

Reading others posts carefully is something I do, to make sure I never misrepresent others teachings.

Faith is given to us by the very fact that God first quicken us to life by creating a new man within us according to his power, grace, promises and oath. But, our faith has no part in us being regenerated by God's Spirit, none whatsoever.

Let me come back to this one point after a meeting this morning.

You are posting things that posters already know (e.g. that regeneration logically precedes faith in Jesus Christ), as if they were corrections. I remember that you did something similar to me previously. It's not a good M.O..

You claim that you read posts carefully, but you do not appear to realise that many of us already know and affirm that our faith has NO PART in us being regenerated by the Spirit of God; and that faith is a grace-gift from God that flows from our regeneration.

Are you conflating regeneration with salvation? Faith is the necessary conduit through which we are forgiven and declared righteous (justified), but regeneration necessarily precedes it (and regeneration, whilst necessary, is not sufficient to save on its own), because the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, nor can he know them because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[Red Baker]

Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.

David, the words save/saved/salvation is not used in the same sense in the scriptures ~ therefore, we must study to rightly divide the word of truth, if we fail to do so, we shall be shame before others, and unable to answer many positions of false cults. The word saved in Acts 16;31 is used in a practical sense, not in a vital sense, and certainly not in a legal sense. No man is ever ask to believe in the scriptures in order to be saved in a vital sense, there's not one verse to support such a position. The Philippian jailor gave clear proof that he had been quicken to life at some point before he ever came trembling and falling down before Paul and Silas. Paul did not go into any theological discussion with him concerning the doctrine of salvation, but told him to believe in Jesus Christ and he shall be saved~faith is the evidence of eternal life, not the means thereof, neither the channel through which we are born again. Faith in Christ saves us from many things, including the fear of death, a welcome visitor ~ saves us from not having any hope to having a strong consolation in the world to come, and eternal life.

It's clear that the faith that God gives his elect, is the means through which God gives us salvation (including forgiveness of sins and being declared righteous).

Faith is not the means through which God gives us salvation form sin and condemantion~that is where we strongly disagree with the average Calvinist.

Faith is the evidence that we have been born of God and been given the gift of eteranl life whereby we shall not perish in the lake of fire which is the second death. Our faith in Christ has not one thing to do with being the channel/means of eternal life~only the faith and obedience of Jesus Christ is the means by which a person will inherit eternal life.

Calvinism errs with its point of Irresistable Grace, for they apply it to the gospel and conversion, which is farther than truth.

They apply irresistible grace, or what they name the “effectual call,” to the preaching of the gospel in the case of all the elect. They believe that all the elect will hear and believe the gospel sometime during their lives and cannot be saved without these things. This is sacramental salvation, for unless the “priest” carries the grace of God’s gospel to the elect, they cannot be saved without it. They must therefore invent all sorts of alternative theories to cover the salvation of infants, idiots, heathen, the deaf and blind, etc. Of course, they rarely define what they mean by “saving faith,” or they would make it to loose, or limit the elect to just a very few. The typical Calvinist, even great men like John Calvin and Jonathan Edwards, seldom differentiate clearly between regeneration and conversion. God’s grace is definitely irresistible when it comes to regeneration, but conversion by the gospel depends on preacher and hearer. The first of the acts is God’s work in salvation, and the second is the information and news concerning it for the comfort of the elect.

Re. Romans 3:22 - "...faith of Jesus Christ..." could be an objective genitive (i.e. the faith of which Jesus Christ is the object) or a subjective genitive (i.e. Jesus Christ's faith). The version you have quoted has left it ambiguous, which is a good option; however, you have begged the question, by assuming that it's a subjective genitive.

David~"begged the question"? David, I have not raise any thing that is not clearly taught throughout the scriptures~and certainly not assuming something that I cannot prove with using God's testimony to support it.

Galatians 2:16​

“Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.”

This is the gospel in a nutshell, not John 3:16 as many believe.

What is “the faith of Jesus Christ”? For it is the means of our legal justification before God.

Because we trust our King James Bible, we do not alter it to read “faith in Jesus Christ,” which modern translations do to reduce the Bible to their concept of faith and its role.

Yet, the simple genitive case does not prove whether it is Christ’s faith or ours in Christ.

Consider well the example of similar language to Gal 2:16 in James 2:1. Whose faith?

Context determines if the simple genitive is subjective or objective, which is answered by determining if the object of the preposition is the subject or object of the possession.

See cases of subjective-genitive (Hag 2:7; Dan 11:37; Ist John 3:16; Jas 2:4; 2nd Cor 5:14).

See cases of objective-genitive (Luke 11:42; I Timothy 3:6; 6:10; Acts 13:34; Jude 1:21).

We understand “the faith of Jesus Christ” to be His singular obedience to God for us, for the rest of the New Testament teaches justification by His work for us (Rom 5:17-19).

 

[Mr GLee]

Faith is not the means through which God gives us salvation form sin and condemantion~that is where we strongly disagree with the average Calvinist.

Hi I would offer

Faith as food or power needed to "both" (the key) .#1 understand the will of the Father and #2 empower mankind do do it according the His good powerful purpose. The kind of food the disciple knew not of at first , food for strength to both will and do. The give us this day our daily bread called hidden manna in Rev 2:17.

The food that stopped the murmuring against Christ in the wilderness. Taste like honey

The better thing that acompanies salvation. God promises he will not forget the good works we miraculously can offer toward his powerful faithful name a labor of His eternal Love .

Yoked with him our daily burdens can be lighter

John 4:33-35King James Version33 Therefore said the disciples one to another, Hath any man brought him ought to eat? Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.

The witness of two . the dynamic dual

Hebrews 6:9-11 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak. For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister. And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end

The law of faith (believing) Let there be light: and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

Faith, the "let there be" iknd of love .

 

[Red Baker]

You are posting things that posters already know (e.g. that regeneration logically precedes faith in Jesus Christ), as if they were corrections.

David, yes some confess that regeneration precedes faith, yet in their teaching of the scriptures, they end up confusing the two, they just do not seem to know the true role of faith in the life of God's elect~even some men that I would consider mighty in the scriptures have trouble at times.

I remember that you did something similar to me previously.

Sorry, I do not remember, but if I did, they you obviously were confusing the two as you have here in this thread.

David, faith in the life of a child of God for whom Christ died for, ranges from almost non-existence to great faith. I look my life over the past fifty years as a child of God, and I'm ashamed of my faith at many times in my walk with God, so ashamed. Faith is nothing more than an evidence of who is a child of God and who are not. Legal justification is not through our faith, but Christ alone. Practical justification that takes place in our conscience is by our faith faith~Romans 5:1 The Particular Baptist 1600-1700's made a very distinct separation between the two.

Faith is not the impulsive or moving cause of Justification. It is an act of pure and free grace, without any motive in the creature: Therefore the Apostle saith, “being justified freely by his grace, through the redemption which is in Jesus Christ” (Ephesians 1:7). But this benefit would not be of grace, but of works, was our faith the impulsive cause of it: because faith is a work or act of ours, as we learn from the words of Christ: “This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent” (John 6:29). Salvation is not of works, in any branch of it; “for by grace are we saved, through faith; that not of our selves, it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast” (Ephesians 2:8-9). From whence it is evident that Justification, which is a considerable part of salvation, cannot be by works. The grace of God eminently appears in contriving the way of our Justification by Christ’s righteousness, and in sending Him into the world to work out a righteousness for us, in which we stand complete in His sight: Hence we are said, “to be justified by his grace, that we might made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.” (Titus 3:7) No other cause can be assigned why sinners are justified in the sight of God, than His free favour and sovereign pleasure, as the effect of which He determined to justify them in the righteousness of His Son. John Brine 1700's

Samuel Richardson: Justification by Christ Alone (1647) – Mercy Upon All

www.mercyuponall.org

You claim that you read posts carefully, but you do not appear to realise that many of us already know and affirm that our faith has NO PART in us being regenerated by the Spirit of God;

David, then will you confess that millions will inherit eternal life who has never heard of Jesús Christ, have never heard the gospel preach as we have? Will you confess that a person can be born again, and not so much as heard if there be such a thing as an atonement made for sinners by Jesus Christ, not so much as have heard if there be an Holy Ghost; etc.

Acts 19:2​

“He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.”

and that faith is a grace-gift from God that flows from our regeneration.

Amen

Faith is the necessary conduit through which we are forgiven and declared righteous (justified)

Wrong! The only conduit by which we are forgiven and declared righteous, is by the faith and obedience of Jesus Christ, period.

regeneration, whilst necessary, is not sufficient to save on its own

Once regenerated, that proves your sins were paid for by Christ, and you were legally justified by his life, death and resurrection.

Romans 4:25​

“Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.”