Does the Lord take us to heaven and we reign with Him

[Eleanor]

Luke 10:16 He that heareth you heareth me; and he that despiseth you despiseth me; and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me.

Anybody can apply that to their selective reading from scriptureJesus was speaking to the apostles, not to "anybody."

Jesus was speaking to the apostles, not to "anybody."

Only apostolic teaching is authoritative to the church.

as applied teachings as if from Christ; like the RCC could use that for applying the words of Christ in John 6:30- onward as talking about communion when in fact, he was talking about salvation in how we are saved by coming to & believing in Jesus Christ, the bread of life that was sent down from Heaven to give life to the world. The RCC can apply Luke 10:16 as if you do not believe Jesus was talking about communion in John 6:30- onward, then you are despising Him, but they would be wrong on both counts.
Matthew 25:31-46 should be applied to the Great White Throne Judgment because of verse 41.
Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Only the Lord can show you your error

The Lord shows me his truth which is authoritative to the church in the teaching of the apostles, with which you are in disagreement.
It's not complicated.

 

[Wordsmith]

Prove to me that you are actually reading it.

I could ask the same of you for inserting words that are not there!

I actually have read it many, many times.

Revelation 2:18-25 KJV

What is the consequence for this church if they do not repent?

The same as any other that does not repent.

21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.

22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

This is written to a literal church in Thyatira. The judgment is pronounced on Jezebel and those only who committed adultery with her unless you see something else there you would like to point out.

I wouldn't make great tribulation in this text the same as the great tribulation at the end of the age if I were you. If you chose to do so make your case and I will be watching for it.

Revelation 3:7-11 KJV

What is the reward for this church if they hold fast?

This is what it says:

10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to
try them that dwell upon the earth.

What is does not say is that anyone will be raptured to heaven to avoid the tribulation at the end of the age.

If you want to have a discussion about all of the seals, trumpets and vials and who they actually affect we can do that.

What I will. tell you is that the saints on earth at that time will not be subject to the tortures those that reject Christ will. Many will suffer persecution but no believer in Christ will endure the wrath of God. God will protect His own church.

 

[Wordsmith]

We find it as a warning regarding the loss of said part in that holy city if anyone take a word out of the Book of Revelation.

Revelation 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Their names are still in it, but their eternal inheritance is taken out of that holy city hence left behind, to be resurrected after the great tribulation to serve the king of kings on earth from their respective places from all over the world in serving the Holy City on earth; hence not living in it, but are allowed to visit it and the tree of life.

You still fail to address the points I have made.

John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Where will Jesus be when He comes again? Answer: Right here on this earth.
Where will Jesus receive us when He comes? Answer in the clouds right here on this earth.
Where does Jesus go when He receives us in the clouds? Answer: He sets up shop right here on this earth.
Where do we rule and reign with Him? Answer: Right here on this earth.

What this passage does not say but is assumed by many.

It does not say we spend eternity in heaven where Christ is now at this present time.
This passage says He is preparing a place for us but it does not say we go there to enjoy it for eternity. Jesus does bring the New Jerusalem down from heaven to the new earth. Revelation 21

It appears to me that many mistakenly think when Christ returns we all go to heaven to live in mansions there.

 

[Wordsmith]

Professing believers left behind ate still saved but not found abiding in Him because of iniquity on that foundation ( Titus 1:16 ) OR/AND they were unwilling to go because they loved their treasures note verses Luke 17:31-33 or loved their lives on earth so as to not want to leave. Luke 21:33-36 & Luke 17:26-37

Luke 17 is not a pre-trip rapture proof text!

Nor is there a pre-trib rapture event that leaves behind saved individuals.


Luke 17: 26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.

27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.

It was the evil ones taken away (destroyed) Noah was protected.

28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;

29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.

Again it was the evil ones taken away (destroyed). Lot was protected.

30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.

32 Remember Lot's wife.

She was destroyed.

33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.

34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.

Again it is those who seek to save their own lives taken away.

35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Again it not the righteous taken.

36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Again it is not the righteous taken.

37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.

The destination for those "taken" does not sound like heaven!

Matthew 24:28, Revelation 19:17-18, Ezekiel 39:4, Ezekiel 39:17-18, Job 39:27-30

 

[ChristB4us]

You still fail to address the points I have made.

John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Where will Jesus be when He comes again? Answer: Right here on this earth.
Where will Jesus receive us when He comes? Answer in the clouds right here on this earth.
Where does Jesus go when He receives us in the clouds? Answer: He sets up shop right here on this earth.
Where do we rule and reign with Him? Answer: Right here on this earth.

Why receive us in the clouds if we are coming back to earth?
Why not leave us on the earth if He is coming to earth to establish His reign after the great tribulation?
Why warned us not to go back to our homes to take anything with us if our homes and treasures on earth will still be there if we are coming back right away?

Luke 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. 27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. 28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; 29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.

30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back. 32 Remember Lot's wife. 33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.

34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. 35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.

"Eagles" was translated from "aetos" which means winglike flight and eagles.

"Gathered" is translated from :sunago" which means receive with hospitality and to resort in.

Revelation 19:1-10 has the Marriage Supper in Heaven as closed for why Satan was kicked out at the pre great tribulation rapture event for why he knows he has little time left per Revelation 12:12.

Then Heaven "OPENED" for Him to come back with the saints AFTER the Great Tribulation to do battle with world's armies marching unto Jerusalem in Revelation 19:11-21 as Zechariah 14:1-5 confirms.

That means Jesus is on earth when this resurrection of those that went through the great tribulation has taken place in Revelation 20:1-6

Those resurrected after the great tribulation were not with Jesus and the saints that He came back with in doing battle with the world's armies that was marching unto Jerusalem.

So explain the obvious time gap here as those resurrected after the great tribulation were not the saints that came back with Him.

What this passage does not say but is assumed by many.

It does not say we spend eternity in heaven where Christ is now at this present time.
This passage says He is preparing a place for us but it does not say we go there to enjoy it for eternity. Jesus does bring the New Jerusalem down from heaven to the new earth. Revelation 21

It appears to me that many mistakenly think when Christ returns we all go to heaven to live in mansions there.

There is a wedding reception held in heaven in that City of God BEFORE that City of God with her firstfruits of the resurrection as inhabitants come down from heaven with Jesus for God to dwell on earth.

Those resurrected after the great tribulation can visit the City of God on earth, and represent her on earth, but they do not live there. They serve Him as kings and priests from their homes located elsewhere all over the world.

 

[Wordsmith]

Why receive us in the clouds if we are coming back to earth?

Because that is the way He left and He is to return the same way.

Acts 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;

11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.


1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


Matthew24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.


Mathew 26:64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.


Revelation 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Note: none of these passages says He will return to heaven either Himself or with us but we have other passages that say He will set foot on earth when He comes and rule and reign with us. Zechariah 14:4, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 11:15

Why not leave us on the earth if He is coming to earth to establish His reign after the great tribulation?

Because He said we would meet Him in the air you can ash Him why He wants do do it that way. Human reasoning is not the best way to form doctrine.

Why warned us not to go back to our homes to take anything with us if our homes and treasures on earth will still be there if we are coming back right away?

When we are changed our earthly way of life is over. If you had a pot of beans on the stove you will no longer need it or care.

On the flip side those that will face judgment will no longer care about the earthly stuff left behind none of that will matter to anyone.

 

[Wordsmith]

Those resurrected after the great tribulation were not with Jesus and the saints that He came back with in doing battle with the world's armies that was marching unto Jerusalem.

So explain the obvious time gap here as those resurrected after the great tribulation were not the saints that came back with Him.

Jesus does not bring back resurrected glorified saints from heaven when He comes because there are none there.

1 Thessalonians 4:14nFor if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

Those that Jesus brings with him are the souls of the righteous dead who will be given their new resurrected glorified bodies like unto His.

Philippians 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

2 Corinthians 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

When the righteous die it only their soul (spirit) that goes to heaven that is what will return with Him when He comes.


Revelation 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

These are not raptured, resurrected saints they are just what scripture says they are. They are just the souls that were slain.

 

[Wordsmith]

Those resurrected after the great tribulation can visit the City of God on earth, and represent her on earth, but they do not live there. They serve Him as kings and priests from their homes located elsewhere all over the world.

So you agree we don't live in mansions located in heaven where God now dwells?

 

[ChristB4us]

So you agree we don't live in mansions located in heaven where God now dwells?

The firstfruits of the resurrection at the pre great tribulation rapture event will be living in that City of God in Heaven before that City and her inhabitants comes down from Heaven after the great tribulation for God to dwell on earth among men.

Luke 20:34 And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage: 35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage: 36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.

John 14:1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. 2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Jesus cannot take you to where He is now in Heaven unless the place He is building for you is actually in Heaven where He is now. He cannot lie as if He will receive you in the clouds BUT only to come back to earth again without going to your place in Heaven FIRST that He prepared for you as the Bridegroom shall do for the abiding bride of Christ to receive for the wedding reception; the Marriage Supper.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Those saints found in unrepentant iniquity will be left behind to die, but their spirits will be with the Lord in Heaven "under the altar" to wait for their resurrection after the great tribulation for when the power of the second death will not be over them, but the power of the first death will. This is why they and the generations following them as they will marry, are to eat from the tree of life located in New Jerusalem on earth.

Revelation 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Luke 12:45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; 46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.

1 Corinthians 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. 25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. 26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: 27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

This is where the vessels unto dishonor comes from, the vessels of wood & earth, as they will be resurrected after the great tribulation for not looking to & thereby trusting the author & finisher of our faith to help us lay aside every weight & sin daily to walk in the light in fellowship with the Father & the Son.

So I partially agree with you because those unrepentant saints & former believers that get left behind are still saved, but lose their place in that City of God as well as their seating at the Mariage Supper table above.

 

[Wordsmith]

The firstfruits of the resurrection at the pre great tribulation rapture event will be living in that City of God in Heaven before that City and her inhabitants comes down from Heaven after the great tribulation for God to dwell on earth among men.

I see no scripture that says there is a pre-trib rapture event. That is an assumption read into certain passages. If you know of one that clearly states there is a rapture event before the tribulation please post it. There are several passages that disagree with that position. MATTHEW 24:29. JOHN 6:39-40 JOHN 6:44 JOHN 6:54 JOHN 11:24 2 THESSALONIANS 2:1-3 DANIEL 12:1-2.

All of above passages clearly state when the resurrection takes place there are none that say it takes place before the tribulation. It is only by make assumptions that are not stated can one arrive at a pre- trib rapture/ resurrection.

Luke 20:34 And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage: 35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage: 36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.

This passage neither states or implies a pre-trib rapture/ resurrection.

John 14:1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. 2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Jesus cannot take you to where He is now in Heaven unless the place He is building for you is actually in Heaven where He is now. He cannot lie as if He will receive you in the clouds BUT only to come back to earth again without going to your place in Heaven FIRST that He prepared for you as the Bridegroom shall do for the abiding bride of Christ to receive for the wedding reception; the Marriage Supper.

"I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also." When He comes He will be here on this earth and we will with Him where He is right here on this earth. Nothing here says He goes back to heaven with us, that is an assumption read into the passage to try to prop up a false narrative.

 

[Wordsmith]

Those saints found in unrepentant iniquity will be left behind to die, but their spirits will be with the Lord in Heaven "under the altar" to wait for their resurrection after the great tribulation for when the power of the second death will not be over them, but the power of the first death will.

Revelation 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

These are the only saints in scripture described as under the altar. They are not:

saints found in unrepentant iniquity will be left behind to die,

These are souls slain for the word of God and the testimony they held. How do you come up with this stuff?

 

[Wordsmith]

So I partially agree with you because those unrepentant saints & former believers that get left behind are still saved, but lose their place in that City of God as well as their seating at the Mariage Supper table above.

You cannot prove any of this with scripture!

Revelation 21:27
And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

All that are in the Lamb's Book of Life will enter in! There are no '"saved" individuals that are not in the Book of Life!

Your above quote is false doctrine.

Not in the Book of Life not saved!

 

[ChristB4us]

I see no scripture that says there is a pre-trib rapture event. That is an assumption read into certain passages. If you know of one that clearly states there is a rapture event before the tribulation please post it.

Luke 17:26-37 KJV Jesus describes the time of our departure that does not align with the end of the great tribulation, because in it, He is warning believers that are still working and has valuable possessions in their homes, not to go back for it to take with them when He comes.

Hardly the description of how the end of the great tribulation will be for the saints when the beast is waging war on the saints to kill them by the sword and also by hunger because they need the mark of the beast to buy & sell, which is an oxymoron for a saved believer to have because any that has the mark are going to the lake of fire, no matter what. So this description is before the great tribulation begins.

Luke 21:33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. 34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. 35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. 36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

What is the escape that saved believers are to take heed of in being watchful & ready & not be overcharged by the cares of this life that it becomes a snare for not wanting to leave for when He comes?

Again, what is it Jesus is asking you to pray always for because His warning hardly applies to saved believers on the run for their lives at the end of the great tribulation?

 

[ChristB4us]

Revelation 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

These are the only saints in scripture described as under the altar. They are not:


These are souls slain for the word of God and the testimony they held. How do you come up with this stuff?

Yet white robes were needed in being given to them which means what? They were naked of their wedding garment?

So the souls that were slain were the unrepentant saints & former believers left behind along with the new believers per result of the rapture, when at the rapture, the first angel spreads the everlasting gospel to all the world so that everyone will know the gospel ( Revelation 14:6-7 ) before the end of the world comes ( Matthew 24:14 ) when a third of the earth gets burned up of which Babylon has fallen in ( the western hemisphere Revelation 8:7 ) as heralded by the 2nd angel ( Revelation 14:8 ) and then the 3rd angel warns everyone in the rest of the world the consequences for taking the mark of the beast which is the lake of fire so they are without excuse ( Revelation 14:9-11 ) for when the New World Order comes & the mark of the beast is implemented.

Revelation 14th Chapter KJV

 

[Wordsmith]

Luke 17:26-37 KJV Jesus describes the time of our departure that does not align with the end of the great tribulation, because in it, He is warning believers that are still working and has valuable possessions in their homes, not to go back for it to take with them when He comes.

Hardly the description of how the end of the great tribulation will be for the saints when the beast is waging war on the saints to kill them by the sword and also by hunger because they need the mark of the beast to buy & sell, which is an oxymoron for a saved believer to have because any that has the mark are going to the lake of fire, no matter what. So this description is before the great tribulation begins.

Luke 17: 26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.

27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.

Destroyed them all! Not referring to the righteous in Noah's day here!

28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;

29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.

Again destroyed them all not referring to the righteous of Sodom!

30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.

Not talking about the righteous here either!

32 Remember Lot's wife.

33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it;

Not talking about the righteous here either!

33b and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.

34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken,

Not talking about the righteous here either. As proved by verse 37. The righteous will not be taken to where the eagles are gathered together. Revelation 19: 17-18 , Job 39: 27-30, Ezekiel 39:4, Ezekiel 39: 17-18

34b and the other shall be left.

35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

The taken are not the righteous as taught by my pr-trib rapture teachers.

36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Again the taken are not the righteous. This passage has been missed and mis understood by many who promote the pre-trib rapture. The taken are not take to heaven as proved by the next verse.

37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.


Matthew 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

Compare to Luke 17:37!

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

All of this takes place after the tribulation not before!

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Christ gathers His elect separately from those that are fed to the birds to be devoured.

Luke 17 is in no way a support passage for a pre-trib rapture!

 

[ChristB4us]

You cannot prove any of this with scripture!

Revelation 21:27
And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

All that are in the Lamb's Book of Life will enter in! There are no '"saved" individuals that are not in the Book of Life!

How do you apply this warning then?
Revelation 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

It is specifically written his part is taken out but not his name, therefore his name is still in the Book of Life per His promise in Revelation 3:5, but his part is taken out which is in connection to his place in that City of God with her inhabitants that will come done from heaven after the great tribulation.

Your above quote is false doctrine.

Not in the Book of Life not saved!

I cannot prove anything to you since it is on God to cause the increase.

1 Corinthians 3: 5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? 6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. 7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

When you finally see the truth that is hidden from you, give God the glory in Jesus's name.

 

[ChristB4us]

Luke 17: 26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.

27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.

Destroyed them all! Not referring to the righteous in Noah's day here!

28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;

29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.

Again destroyed them all not referring to the righteous of Sodom!

30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.

Not talking about the righteous here either!

32 Remember Lot's wife.

33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it;

Not talking about the righteous here either!

33b and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.

34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken,

Not talking about the righteous here either. As proved by verse 37. The righteous will not be taken to where the eagles are gathered together. Revelation 19: 17-18 , Job 39: 27-30, Ezekiel 39:4, Ezekiel 39: 17-18

34b and the other shall be left.

35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

The taken are not the righteous as taught by my pr-trib rapture teachers.

36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Again the taken are not the righteous. This passage has been missed and mis understood by many who promote the pre-trib rapture. The taken are not take to heaven as proved by the next verse.

37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.


Matthew 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

Compare to Luke 17:37!

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

All of this takes place after the tribulation not before!

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Christ gathers His elect separately from those that are fed to the birds to be devoured.

Luke 17 is in no way a support passage for a pre-trib rapture!

And yet missing the forest for all the trees. Why is Jesus warning saved believers not to go back to take something from their hokes to bring with them when He comes?

Luke 17:30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.

32 Remember Lot's wife.

33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.

This is why believers are exhorted to not treasure anything on this earth but have their hearts on the treasures above.

Matthew 6:19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal: 20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal: 21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

This is why He is warning saved believers to be ready and willing to go and it is certainly not descriptive towards the end of the great tribulation, but in the times we are living in now.

 

[Wordsmith]

Luke 21:33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. 34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. 35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. 36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

What is the escape that saved believers are to take heed of in being watchful & ready & not be overcharged by the cares of this life that it becomes a snare for not wanting to leave for when He comes?

Again, what is it Jesus is asking you to pray always for because His warning hardly applies to saved believers on the run for their lives at the end of the great tribulation?

One way to escape the persecutions to come is through death and being in the presence of the Lord another is for the Lord to protect His own which He is fully capable of doing.

Again you have shown no passage that clearly states a return trip to heaven before the tribulation because there is not one. There are only speculative interpretations.

 

[ChristB4us]

One way to escape the persecutions to come is through death and being in the presence of the Lord another is for the Lord to protect His own which He is fully capable of doing.

Again you have shown no passage that clearly states a return trip to heaven before the tribulation because there is not one. There are only speculative interpretations.

Think about that for a moment; to escape death that is coming on the earth ( persecution or fire ), is to die?

Luke 21:33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. 34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. 35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. 36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Jesus is warning believers not to be "overcharged" for the cares of this life as well as engaging in certain sins He spoke of which testifies to believers being able to buy & sell for those temptations to come like getting drunk, right?

There is tribulation that we are living in now in these latter days where faith is hard to find and then there is the great tribulation, that hour of temptation ( the mark of the beast to buy & sell ) that shall try all remaining upon the earth after the pre great tribulation rapture event.

John 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

We are living in tribulations now, but it is not the great tribulation that is coming after the rapture event. That is why we are warned to be ready or else and this what we are to be praying for to escape what is coming on the earth.

 

[Wordsmith]

I cannot prove anything to you since it is on God to cause the increase.

1 Corinthians 3: 5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? 6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. 7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

When you finally see the truth that is hidden from you, give God the glory in Jesus's name.

I believed as you for the first part of my Christian life then I saw the truth of scripture. There is no pre-trib rapture anywhere in scripture. It is only by reading it into many passages and ignoring the ones that clearly show it to be false can one arrive at such a doctrine.

I will be glad to discuss any passage you post. there are no clearly stated passages showing a return trip to heaven with Jesus when He comes.

In fact when you take church history as a whole the pre-trib rapture if a fairly recent promotion. Also the larger percentage of the churches today reject it.