Do believers have visions and dreams today?

[ammi]

God gave me saving faith as a gift. I wasn't looking for it. He sometimes tells me things and sometimes shows me things. A couple times He took me somewhere else. He gave me the gift of tongues...I don't recall asking Him but I'm glad He did. Most important to me was when the Father showed me His love for me.
There was the time I died at the hospital for 7 minutes. As the nurse was writing out my time of death, my heart started beating again. I had gone to a city that had a golden mist on its streets and when I turned around, Jesus was standing there, looking me in the eyes and smiling.
I am on the road...to my home...in the New Jerusalem! And when I get there, there will be...no more death, no more mourning, no more crying...or pain. Hallelujah!

 

[Iconoclast]

And what is your Scriptural evidence for that claim?

Have you looked at the 3 chapters in john?
jn14
25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.

26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
jn15
26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

27 And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.
jn16
12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

 

[GeneZ]

God gave me saving faith as a gift. I wasn't looking for it. He sometimes tells me things and sometimes shows me things. A couple times He took me somewhere else. He gave me the gift of tongues...I don't recall asking Him but I'm glad He did. Most important to me was when the Father showed me His love for me.
There was the time I died at the hospital for 7 minutes. As the nurse was writing out my time of death, my heart started beating again. I had gone to a city that had a golden mist on its streets and when I turned around, Jesus was standing there, looking me in the eyes and smiling.
I am on the road...to my home...in the New Jerusalem! And when I get there, there will be...no more death, no more mourning, no more crying...or pain. Hallelujah!

This why we should not get into debates about tongues....

Keep it to yourself like Paul said you should.

Really. Otherwise the truth is going to make you feel others are being cruel to you.

Jesus warned us. If we are to follow Him? To follow the Word of God - not our emotions?

It will require at times that we deny self and take up our own cross when the Word of God informs us of something contrary to what we want to believe. For part of us must die to self when we really like something, and the Word of God says its wrong.

This is why tongues should not be discussed in forums by those who want to promote what the Bible says is no longer for the church.

Visions of heaven Kenneth Hagin was given along with tongues, etc. Totally apostate man. Who was the mentor of Kenneth Copeland.

If the Bible says the (genuine) gift ceased? Its opening a can of worms to try to defend it with emotional appeals with believers who do not share in the same weakness that needs to be overcome.

 

[ammi]

God gave us emotions. I agree that the word should lead and emotions should follow. You don't want to get into a trainwreck.
"1 I will give thanks to you, Lord, with all my heart;
I will tell of all your wonderful deeds.
2 I will be glad and rejoice in you;
I will sing the praises of your name, O Most High. - Psalm 9.
If you want to deny your emotions and spiritual gifts, go ahead. No one is stopping you. See, I'm treating you how I want to be treated.
P.S. I despise the prosperity gospel.

 

[TB2]

What is the need for them?

Do you know what they were given for?

There seems to be more than one use. One use according to 1 Corinthians 14.1- is private prayer between the tongue speaker and God.

I do not have the gift myself, but I know those who do (but I can tell you about prophetic words and dreams I've received about people I didn’t know and had never met and then days later did and was able to minister to them having received information about them that I couldn’t have possibly known on my own, I didn't even know them to begin with. I did not seek out these experiences. I wasn't even looking for them. They happened during a time when I was going up to the mountains each day for about a week and spending about eight hours a day just worshipping God with my guitar and praying and pouring my heart out to Him, just loving Jesus and wanting more of Him in my life and surrendering my pride and self and time to Him.... I wasnt seeking any emotional experience or any gifts just loving, worshipping, and praising and praying to God. And then all these "coincidences" started to happen that I wasn't even looking for...and then the BIGGEST miracle of all that I had never before experienced in my life as a Christian for some 25 years before...And I'm not making this up (because on the surface it will sound so trite and non miraculous) and I don't know how to explain it other than to say it was supernatural empowerment over sin and to live righteously and the fruits of the Spirit. It's like I didn't have to even try. There was this supernatural empowerment to live morally. I was saved by grace when I was four and then was taught now that you're saved you have to work hard to try to be good (not for salvation) just because Christians are supposed to be good. What a frustrating experience. Yet here truly miraculously God's empowering presence enabled me to live righteously without human effort as a byproduct of time spent in His presence. Now the thought of trying to do things the old "church" way of trying to be a good little Christian--just the thought of that is exhausting.

So many more stories to tell (including natural law defying miracles I've witnessed materialization out of thin air before my eyes in healings. The crazy thing is you think that would be the most important part of what was going on but it wasn't. That was just peripheral to the more important aspect of corporate prayer and worship of an assembly of believers all worshipping and praying and seeking God. That was the highlight, not the miracles (like one would think) but the awesome love and power and tangible presence of God Himself ....

And then there's the prophetic word I received where I'd been debating an atheist for weeks and of course getting no where despite my elite apologetics training and finally had this crazy idea to ask God for help with what to say and instantly heard in my spirit while talking to the atheist the Lord telling me to ask him a specific question. Which I then did and he stopped dead in his tracks said he'd get back to me and then that weekend poured his heart out to me for hours while all I did was listen and he ended up coming to Christ! And all I did was ask him the one specific question the Lord told me to ask (and no, it's never worked again with anyone else; there is divine timing and divine appointments for such things)..so many other stories but I digress.

Back to tongues which I don't have but know others who do, and it's often described to me as used in both praise and intercessory prayer; we can pray with our mind/understanding, but then there are times like we see in the Psalms whether it's praise or gut wrenching pain or hurt for the lost or friends and family members who need the Lord or those we're interceding for when we can't find the right words and praying in the Spirit instead of with our understanding/mind (as Paul describes) can be a powerful way to intercede for others when words of understanding fail us.

Pastor Jack Hayford has a great book called The Beauty of Spiritual Language. One of my favorite stories he tells was traveling on a plane and striking up a conversation and sharing the gospel with the businessman next to him who was basically agnostic. When he suddenly felt spontaneous prompting by the Spirit to speak in tongues out loud to this individual. He thought for sure (hoped) it wasn't from God because he really really didn't want to do that (afterall, no interpreter right? People will think you're crazy, right?). He tried ignoring it but kept being prompted by the Spirit to be obedient and do this. So he told the guy that he had learned some words in a language once and if he could share. The guy said sure. He looked straight ahead at the seatback in front of him too scared to look at the guy for fear someone will think he's crazy and started speaking in tongues. He said he was about five seconds into it when his normal prayer language suddenly switched to something different (and Jack Hayford had no idea what words or language it was or if it was a human language at all nothing he knew or recognized nor did he have a clue what he was saying). Then after he was done speaking for about 20 seconds or so the guy very matter of factly said those are words from my Native American tribal language. And I don't know the language that well but you were saying something about the light coming from afar into darkness ... (and I forget the rest of the story)... but the guy was obviously astounded at how this random white guy stranger could know these words and Jack Hayford was then able to witness and expound further about the Gospel.

 

[TB2]

If the Bible says the (genuine) gift ceased?

But the Bible doesn't say that

 

[TB2]

P.S. I despise the prosperity gospel.

Amen, false gospel

 

[GeneZ]

God gave us emotions. I agree that the word should lead and emotions should follow. You don't want to get into a trainwreck.
"1 I will give thanks to you, Lord, with all my heart;
I will tell of all your wonderful deeds.
2 I will be glad and rejoice in you;
I will sing the praises of your name, O Most High. - Psalm 9.
If you want to deny your emotions and spiritual gifts, go ahead. No one is stopping you. See, I'm treating you how I want to be treated.
P.S. I despise the prosperity gospel.

Why do you leap to that conclusion?

Jesus came that we should have life more abundantly.

Our thinking should be our master and our emotions our servants designed to please us with righteous expression.

 

[ammi]

Whatever.

 

[TB2]

Whatever.

Some just don't understand

 

[TB2]

Something that may (or may not) be of interest @prism @ammi and anyone else

*UPDATE ON THE SHROUD OF TURIN *

On a separate (non controversial note) earlier this week I had the opportunity to have a two hour conversation with Barrie Schwortz, a leading expert on the Shroud of Turin and one the few alive today who has physically examined and handled the Shroud. On top of that, Barrie is a Jew who believes (on the basis of the evidence) that the Shroud is the authentic burial shroud of the historical Jesus of Nazareth, and he brought me up to date on current research (for one I had no idea that the 1988 radiocarbon dates have been debunked). Whatever your personal views on the subject you'll find Barrie's story a fascinating one. Here is a link to those resources including Barrie's recent interview on the Glen Beck Show:

*UPDATE ON THE SHROUD OF TURIN *

 

[GeneZ]

Whatever.

Sorry about that..... In my background I had some close relatives that made their emotions their first priority.
They alienated other family members in the process. I tried reasoning to no avail... and with great frustration
found myself needing to avoid them as other family members also found themselves doing. They were heavy
into tongues... So, I try to avoid such discussions now.

 

[Marilyn C]

I could tell you about the half a dozen different times on different occasions over a period of several years witnessing the stigmata before my eyes before I even knew what the stigmata was. A visiting woman ministering in prayer. I watched wounds open up in the palms of her hands where none had been before. On another occasion I witnessed anointing oil coming out of her palms as she prayed for people and anointed them with oil including myself (And I'm a scientist, so you can believe I was looking for all manner of trickery and deception and fake blood, oil, the whole nine yards. Nothing. Just a woman who spends about ten to fifteen hours in prayer a day. Ministers eleven months out of the year, and the twelfth month she spends praying and fasting for the next eleven).

I could tell you about healings at other times with different visiting ministers. I could tell you about a different occassion with a different visiting minister who was praying for people and our worship pastor, who was a close personal friend of mine, was there for support. I could tell you how a person was healed right in front of us and how my friend's jaw dropped open in amazement at what we were witnessing. And as he did so how I and others witnessed a metallic silvery something materializing on the spot in his mouth filling in a cavity he needed fixed (the filling is still there to this day). As he describes it, all of a sudden he had this metallic taste in his mouth.

HI TB,

I do believe in the gifts of the Holy Spirit but I need to warn you that what you experienced was `lying wonders.`

`The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power signs and lying wonders.` (2 Thess. 2: 9)

Stigmata is a medical condition that many people have and makes them bleed.
Oil was introduced in a capsule.
Filling? Well God would have made anew tooth, not a filling.

And there have been - feathers, gold dust, glory clouds, jewels, angels sining etc etc . All lying wonders.

 

[Dave_Regenerated]

Sign Gifts and new revelation ceased with the Apostles, and the closing of the canon of scriptures.
No one is getting prophetic dreams, visions, or tongues. You have not had any vision from God. You might have thought of something that you now ascribe unto God, but it was not.

You are a "skeptic Christian". That's my term for an anti-supernaturalist posing as a believer. If you were around the Apostles 2000 years ago you would say the same thing you are saying here now. I guarantee it.

 

[TB2]

HI TB,

I do believe in the gifts of the Holy Spirit but I need to warn you that what you experienced was `lying wonders.`

`The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power signs and lying wonders.` (2 Thess. 2: 9)

Stigmata is a medical condition that many people have and makes them bleed.
Oil was introduced in a capsule.
Filling? Well God would have made anew tooth, not a filling.

And there have been - feathers, gold dust, glory clouds, jewels, angels sining etc etc . All lying wonders.

I'm a scientist so I was able to verify the authenticity myself, but thank you for your concern. Also, lying satanic miracles cannot happen in the midst of worship and praise to God/Jesus. Also, regarding a whole new tooth, God is not limited and could did it that way, but can also heal however He chooses and *never* heals totally and completely this side of the resurrection body (even Lazarus ended up dying again). Gifts are temporary and in part (1 Cor 13). A small taste of what is to come. Blessings

 

[TB2]

There is a genuine concern that inner "voices" and premonitions are just our own or made up or satanic. So how do you know it's the Lord's voice? When I've prayed and asked God about this I've told Him I never wanted to have to guess about subjective things like that, because we absolutely can be wrong about such things and I wanted nothing to do with that sort of subjectivity. Plus, I don't trust myself not to imagine or make something up. So I confessed that to God and that I didn't want that to happen and that I don't trust myself or ability to be able to hear Him but that I was open to Him and trusted *His* ability to be able to get through to me and my thick skull and be able to be heard if He wanted and confessed my genuine concerns. And then I didn’t worry about it nor did I go looking for premonitions or hairs standing on the back of my neck and such things. I trusted in His ability to be heard and get through to me. And He has been faithful.

Also, consider if you were blindfolded in a crowded room and how you're able to pick out the voice of a friend in the midst of that. If someone asks how you're able to do that think how difficult that would be to explain that. I suppose one could talk about the physics and physical characteristic pitch, timbre, inflections and harmonics of the voice but it's still hard to put into words. But the short answer as we know is *experience*----we recognize what we know by experience of hearing that person's voice time and time again and so when you hear that friend's voice you "just know" from experience. It's the same way here. Trust God to get through to you. Don't try to make something happen just love and worship God. Spend time with Him. The more we spend time with Him the more we learn to recognize His voice and distinguish it from our own and from the enemy. You "just know" and learn from experience.

 

[Wordsmith]

Sign Gifts and new revelation ceased with the Apostles, and the closing of the canon of scriptures.

No scripture says this. The closed cannon of scripture is never referred to in said scripture. The gifts of the Spirit are never divided up into groups of ones that ceased and ones that remain that is an invention of man.

No one is getting prophetic dreams, visions, or tongues. You have not had any vision from God.

Acts 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;

17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

You might have thought of something that you now ascribe unto God, but it was not.

You speak as though you have authority and knowledge not available to others.

1. You don't know me or anything about me.
2. You are taking an unscriptural position parroted by many before you.
3. You are trying to tell the church what God can and cannot do without any scriptural justification whatsoever.
4. Many throughout the entire church age have testified to experiences with God of which you have no knowledge.
5. God always was a God of miracles and has never stopped.

You are free to believe what ever you wish but it would be helpful to you being understood if you actual backed up outrageous claims with scripture.

I was healed by God and frankly my friend you know not of what you speak!

 

[TB2]

Have you looked at the 3 chapters in john?
jn14
25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.

26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
jn15
26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

27 And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.
jn16
12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Yes, wonderful verses about the Spirit's guidance!

 

[TB2]

No scripture says this. The closed cannon of scripture is never referred to in said scripture. The gifts of the Spirit are never divided up into groups of ones that ceased and ones that remain that is an invention of man.

Acts 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;

17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:


You speak as though you have authority and knowledge not available to others.

1. You don't know me or anything about me.
2. You are taking an unscriptural position parroted by many before you.
3. You are trying to tell the church what God can and cannot do without any scriptural justification whatsoever.
4. Many throughout the entire church age have testified to experiences with God of which you have no knowledge.
5. God always was a God of miracles and has never stopped.

You are free to believe what ever you wish but it would be helpful to you being understood if you actual backed up outrageous claims with scripture.

I was healed by God and frankly my friend you know not of what you speak!

It's okay wordsmith. Yes everything you say is true but there also have been a lot of crazy charismatic abuses so I understand completely people's reticence and skepticism and concern (and they are right to have it and need to test the spirits and be discerning!). Let's just pray for each other. As you know it's not about miracles or experiencing gifts or healings or visions. We don't chase after that we 'chase' after God. I know all believers of every denomination want the same thing: 'God with us'. And we can intercede and pray for each other on others' behalf that God's will be done on such things. My prayer for everyone is simply to love, pray, worship God, read and study His Word and just make yourself available to Him to be used however He wants and determines for His glory alone for the building up of the Body of Christ.

 

[Wordsmith]

What is the need for them?

Tell that to a dying person in need of healing from God because man has done all he can do.

Tell that to anyone who has had to deal one on one with a demon possessed person.

Tell that to one seeking wisdom from God.

Tell that to one who avoided a tragedy in life because they were warned by the Holy Spirit.

It should be obvious to any believer that God place the gifts in the church to help and edify and bless His people. Why do many try so hard to remove what God has given to the body? That is the real question here.

The answer to your question is in the chapter below so sad many have eflectively removed this from their Bibles.

1 Corinthians 12:1 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.

2 Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.

3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.

5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.

6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.

7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;

9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

14 For the body is not one member, but many.

15 If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?

16 And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?

17 If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?

18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.

19 And if they were all one member, where were the body?

20 But now are they many members, yet but one body.

21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.

22 Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary:

23 And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness.

24 For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked.

25 That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.

26 And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.

27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?

30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.