Do believers have visions and dreams today?

[Carbon]

See earlier post

If I wanted to read a book on it, I wouldn't have asked you.

 

[TB2]

If I wanted to read a book on it, I wouldn't have asked you.

Did you read the story (screenshots) I posted with the comment? And did you ever get a chance to read the post before that where I answered your question in detail?

-Day of Pentecost type evangelism (see first link with book reference and screenshots--read story/screenshots for a modern day example of testifying in a foreign tongue like in Acts 2)

-Private prayer/praise, intercessory prayer (as I explain in detail in the second link above)

 

[EarlyActs]

It was a sign for those who would refuse to believe.

However it might have been manifested to expose those Jews rejecting the Messiah, is not the reason for its being given.
Like with Pharaoh who rejected the signs he was given, word got around the known world and was used to bring people
like Rehab the prostitute to salvation..... Just like while the gift was being used as a sign to smack unbelieving Jews over
their heads pushing them to their limits of willful denial of the Truth. These unbelieving Jews, like Pharaoh, went to their
deaths in 70 AD after God said the time to repent is done.

Though many around and in Egypt found salvation because of the signs of the plagues, they signs were ended after Pharaoh
and his army were drowned in the Red Sea. Likewise, for the gift of tongues.

Yet a thing called tongues has been with us ever since found in the likes of witches and occult activity. That is why it is so important
to understand the ceasing of tongues given to the early church.

In Christ .....

Don't you think Paul cautiously distinguished between the real thing and 'area laleo' (speaking into the air), in I C 14? To me that is enough of a distinction that 'area laleo' would not even come close to the incidental later languages of Acts 9.

 

[EarlyActs]

And they're still extant and experienced by millions of believers around the world. There is nothing in Scripture that says they will cease this side of heaven/the Lord's return.

Read Jack Hayford's testimony on tongues for private prayer and a modern day example of tongues used like on the Day of Pentecost to be understood in their own language

Personal experience can be highly misleading.

Paul connects the purpose of other real languages to that generations final warning sign to the Jews. 'Area laleo' (speaking into the air) is nothing of the sort, and may well have to do with the Delphi oracle cult nearby. Because personal experience can be highly misleading, and people can be very 'invested' in theirs, Paul cautiously distanced the real thing from those who 'area laleo.'

The disconnect of your Hayford example is: the content has to be an ultimatum to the Jews;
there has to be visiting Jews who cannot understand Aramaic;
the miracle is not at the speaker, it is at the ears of the hearer;
it has to be in the language that the visiting Jew knows.

If you think anything today is doing those 4 things, please reference the example. The closest thing I can think of, but have not, would be a modern person with the Gospel and an understanding of 70 AD, who could not speak in Hebrew, to an Israeli who could only speak in Hebrew (most know English-Hebrew-Arabic). The speaker would talk in his own normal language and the Jewish person would understand in Hebrew.

 

[GeneZ]

Don't you think Paul cautiously distinguished between the real thing and 'area laleo' (speaking into the air), in I C 14? To me that is enough of a distinction that 'area laleo' would not even come close to the incidental later languages of Acts 9.

Would you mind actually copying and pasting what verses you are referring to, so I can have something to think with?

Or, are you giving me an assignment to do for homework?

Have a conversation, please. Don't just simply refer to having one.

 

[Arial]

@Arial

Part of the answer's right there in the Beezlebub controversy: if it runs counter to the advancement of the enemy and builds up the Kingdom then it's likely of God. The fact that what I witnessed included people coming to Christ makes it unlikely to be demonic as that would run counter to the enemy's purposes.

In short: by the fruit it produces

On what are you basing that those people came to Christ?

And might I remind you that God sent the enemy of God, Assyria to execute His judgment on Israel, then when they came against Judah He stopped their advance and brought about Assyria's destruction because of their wrong motives towards Israel. It is God's purposes that always prevail, not the enemies. So when you say that "if it runs counter to the advancement of the enemy and builds up the Kingdom then it's likely of God" you are making an assertion that is what you think but do not actually support with anything but that. Not only that but "likely" says it all. It is purely subjective and that may be good enough for you, but not for me.

And the fact that something is of a purely subjective nature, no matter what one says about it, pro or con, it would not be a part of sound doctrine. And it certainly would not be a Bible sanctioned part in entire gatherings of believers to worship God, where everything about it is subjective and yet called glorifying God.

 

[EarlyActs]

Would you mind actually copying and pasting what verses you are referring to, so I can have something to think with?

Or, are you giving me an assignment to do for homework?

Have a conversation, please. Don't just simply refer to having one.

Sorry I assumed you were very familiar. The 'speaking into the air ' phrase is a one-time in 14:9. You might call it a hypothetical example, but he chose it for its resemblance to the manifestation there at Corinth that he was not encouraging.

In Acts 10 (corr of above ):44+ is the other reference (there really are only two, so I thought you would know). Obviously with many people there (v26) there was the need for some translation (we have no idea what this is like in America!). So as the point of the Gospel was reached, they re-declared this to these people and praised God.

From anything I've read, this was meant to be a sort of launch of a Gentile mission and needed the 'seal.' However, Peter had already been doing so. 8:14+. The sign of the Spirit is that those people would start speaking the same message to others. It kind of gets incidental, and you can't tell why languages would not have been spoken at that gathering. Jews had Aramaic in common but Gentiles had several working languages.

 

[GeneZ]

Sorry I assumed you were very familiar. The 'speaking into the air ' phrase is a one-time in 14:9. You might call it a hypothetical example, but he chose it for its resemblance to the manifestation there at Corinth that he was not encouraging.

In Acts 10 (corr of above ):44+ is the other reference (there really are only two, so I thought you would know). Obviously with many people there (v26) there was the need for some translation (we have no idea what this is like in America!). So as the point of the Gospel was reached, they re-declared this to these people and praised God.

From anything I've read, this was meant to be a sort of launch of a Gentile mission and needed the 'seal.' However, Peter had already been doing so. 8:14+. The sign of the Spirit is that those people would start speaking the same message to others. It kind of gets incidental, and you can't tell why languages would not have been spoken at that gathering. Jews had Aramaic in common but Gentiles had several working languages.

Keep in mind one vital reason for having the temporary gifts........

No one had the NT Scriptures yet!

Gradually they became written.

Paul was commissioned to reveal the mystery hidden in the past to other believers...

I have become its servant by the commission God gave me to present ​

to you the word of God in its fullness—the mystery that has been kept ​

hidden for ages and generations, but is now disclosed to the Lord’s people." Col 1:25-26​

So..

The temporary gifts were designed by God to hold them over until the Church could have something substantial on record to think with.

To think with while being empowered by the Holy Spirit in them.


grace and peace ................

 

[GeneZ]

Sorry I assumed you were very familiar. The 'speaking into the air ' phrase is a one-time in 14:9.

I was familiar with it...

But others following this thread will be excluded from the conversation if they came here to learn more about the Word of God.

 

[EarlyActs]

Keep in mind one vital reason for having the temporary gifts........

No one had the NT Scriptures yet!

Gradually they became written.

Paul was commissioned to reveal the mystery hidden in the past to other believers...

I have become its servant by the commission God gave me to present ​

to you the word of God in its fullness—the mystery that has been kept ​

hidden for ages and generations, but is now disclosed to the Lord’s people." Col 1:25-26​

So..

The temporary gifts were designed by God to hold them over until the Church could have something substantial on record to think with.

To think with while being empowered by the Holy Spirit in them.


grace and peace ................

I think you might see this differently if you realize what the 40 days was about. This is in my THE ENTHRONED KING book. This stands for up to 300 hours of instruction in what the OT actually meant, so what within a week of the church starting, Luke can refer to 'the apostle's teaching.' It was what the Christ event meant based on Moses and the prophets, says Lk 24 and Acts 1 and 26. The record of Acts is that we have some 20 passages interpreted in detail by the time we get to ch 15.

Sign events would certainly validate their authority, but they would not impart the substantial doctrines found in these passages. And Paul matches up rather nicely from his own independent study under Christ.

This item--the 40 days of teaching--is a far more dynamic evidence of the early church than a list of letters. For one thing, it is 'in-person' in normal language and instruction; no guessing about what 'inspiration' means.

 

[EarlyActs]

I have a thread called "3 rational supports of Christian faith" and it would be great to have your thoughts there.

 

[GeneZ]

I think you might see this differently if you realize what the 40 days was about. This is in my THE ENTHRONED KING book. This stands for up to 300 hours of instruction in what the OT actually meant, so what within a week of the church starting, Luke can refer to 'the apostle's teaching.' It was what the Christ event meant based on Moses and the prophets, says Lk 24 and Acts 1 and 26. The record of Acts is that we have some 20 passages interpreted in detail by the time we get to ch 15.

Sign events would certainly validate their authority, but they would not impart the substantial doctrines found in these passages. And Paul matches up rather nicely from his own independent study under Christ.

This item--the 40 days of teaching--is a far more dynamic evidence of the early church than a list of letters. For one thing, it is 'in-person' in normal language and instruction; no guessing about what 'inspiration' means.

Try it like this instead and you might get a response...

I think you might see this differently if you realize what I think the 40 days was about.

grace and peace ...................

 

[EarlyActs]

Try it like this instead and you might get a response...



grace and peace ...................

I know what you mean, although on this one, there are after-passages saying so, which I mentioned. When I saw that, I felt alerted to the grounding that these days entailed.

 

[EarlyActs]

I know what you mean, although on this one, there are after-passages saying so, which I mentioned. When I saw that, I felt alerted to the grounding that these days entailed.

Corr: 'these 40 days...'

 

[Mikeuk]

Do you think visions and dreams happen today?
“And it shall come to pass afterward,
that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh;
your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
your old men shall dream dreams,
and your young men shall see visions. Joel 2:28.

They do.

In some cases with verifiable details.
Take those that found Mary’s house in the mountains near Ephesus

But there is a paradox.
A purpose for visions is to persuade of alternative paths, futures or ways.
So those most affected By visions are those most likely to deny they are real.

For example several visions of purgatory …
At a time the vision proved their veracity.