Do believers have visions and dreams today?

[Arial]

I'm a scientist so I was able to verify the authenticity myself, but thank you for your concern.

There are a lot of scientists who think there was nothing and it exploded and caused everything that is. When asked how that nothing could explode they say they haven't been able to go back enough billion years to answer that yet. Just saying, I would need more than the word of a scientist as verification of anything.

Also, lying satanic miracles cannot happen in the midst of worship and praise to God/Jesus.

Where is the scriptural support for that?

 

[GeneZ]

Yes, wonderful verses about the Spirit's guidance!

If you were getting guidance from the Spirit you would not be seeking such distractions that keep you from being objective
concerning the Word of God.

Paul warned about the dangers of emotion-driven believers.
He called them "enemies of the Cross."
When he said .. "their god is their belly?'

"Belly" was used to describe what today we call emotions.

For, as I have often told you before and now tell you again even with tears, ​

many live as enemies of the cross of Christ. Their destiny is destruction, ​

their god is their belly, and their glory is in their shame. ​

Their mind is set on earthly things." Philippians 3:18-19​

Christians that are ruled by their emotions lose objectivity when the Word of God confronts them in their error.
In emotional reaction they begin to grab verses out of context, and demand that what they want it to mean, is what it means.

I have been down this bumpy road many times. We all make mistakes. But those who make their emotions their god
treat certain passages like woke trannies who demand that we recognize them for what they want to be seen as. Not for
what is there before our eyes. Its all a parallel to how the emotion driven soul operates, and loses all objectivity.

Yes.... you can be deceived. We all can be at some point in our lives.
One of the greatest grace -breakthroughs we can have, is to have the Lord correct us by knocking us off
our self confidence perch. That self confidence must be taken to the Cross if His spiritual self esteem is to take root.

If that happens? When we are shocked to see how wrong we were when we thought we were obviously right?
We then begin to learn the meaning of the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.

“For my thoughts are not your thoughts,​

neither are your ways my ways,”​

declares the Lord.​

​

“As the heavens are higher than the earth,​

so are my ways higher than your ways​

and my thoughts than your thoughts."​

................................Isaiah 55:8-9

grace and peace .................

 

[prism]

I believe God can use dreams and visions to draw us to His Son, but they are no substitue for His Word and He will wean us off that milk as we grow. At least that's what happened in my case...

Jeremiah 23:28-29
Let the prophet who has a dream tell the dream, but let him who has my word speak my word faithfully. What has straw in common with wheat? declares the LORD. [29] Is not my word like fire, declares the LORD, and like a hammer that breaks the rock in pieces?

 

[GeneZ]

There are definitely charlatans. I have a fun little science observation object lesson I sometimes do with students where I am able to accurately tell them which numbers on the board they selected without me seeing without hidden cameras nothing. But I do of course have a student plant subtly feeding me the information and even when I tell students this and have them make good observations (the point of the lesson) they still can't figure it out how it's done because the prompts are that subtle. Yes, there are definite charlatans and counterfeits. We must always be discerning but also never let that dissuade us from the truly genuine. Our God is a living, active, ever present God. Blessings

Keep in mind what we all can be dealing with....

Then the Lord told Moses and Aaron, “When Pharaoh says to you, ​

‘Perform a miraculous sign,’ then you are to say to Aaron, ‘Take your ​

staff and throw it in front of Pharaoh.’ It will become a serpent.”​

​

So Moses and Aaron went in to Pharaoh and did what the Lord had ​

commanded them. Aaron threw his staff in front of Pharaoh and his ​

officials, and it became a serpent. Then Pharaoh also called for the ​

wise men and sorcerers, and they—along with the Egyptian magicians​

—did the same thing with their secret arts. So each one threw down ​

his staff and it became a serpent, but Aaron’s staff swallowed up their ​

staffs. Yet Pharaoh’s heart was stubborn and he did not listen to them,​

just as the Lord had said would happen." Exodus 7:8-13​

​

​

grace and peace ...............

 

[TB2]

There are a lot of scientists who think there was nothing and it exploded and caused everything that is. When asked how that nothing could explode they say they haven't been able to go back enough billion years to answer that yet. Just saying, I would need more than the word of a scientist as verification of anything.

Where is the scriptural support for that?

(Oops, I just realized I thought I was talking to someone else, Arial. So if some of it doesn't make sense, you'll understand why. The gist is still the same. Best)

Well to be frank, I simply shared my testimony. I cannot verify to you because you weren't there. I can only verify for me who was present. The irony is that skeptics will never be convinced by anything less than something so crazy and impossible to believe natural law defying event, and yet it is that very thing that keeps them from believing-- it's too crazy to believe. I understand this and don't blame you or anyone one bit for not believing. If someone told me the things I shared, I'd think it crazy and impossible to believe too! That's honestly why I almost never talk about it outside friends and family. In fact this is the first time I've ever talked about it to strangers online in the 25 years since it happened. So unfortunately you're right. I can't verify to you. It's too crazy to believe. But for me I can't unsee what I've seen and so anyone insisting that it's impossible or I didn't see it who wasn't there is hollow and like a blind person trying to argue with me that there's no such thing as sight when I'm seeing right now. Again, I can't deny what I know I saw. I can't unsee what I saw. And I can't find any justification for the suggestion that it was demonic because it resulted in people coming to Christ. So if it was satan or "lying wonders" as you suggest then it backfired on the enemy. But I truly do appreciate your concern and share your concern that there are counterfeit signs and so we truly need to be discerning.

In Christ

 

[TB2]

If you were getting guidance from the Spirit you would not be seeking such distractions that keep you from being objective
concerning the Word of God

God's Word is objective but our reading (and every single translation of the Bible!) is fraught with subjectivity and requires the Holy Spirit's guidance! God's Word is what teaches us about the Holy Spirit's guidance.

Belly" was used to describe what today we call emotions.


For, as I have often told you before and now tell you again even with tears, many live as enemies of the cross of Christ. Their destiny is destruction, their god is their belly, and their glory is in their shame. Their mind is set on earthly things." Philippians 3:18-19
Christians that are ruled by their emotions lose objectivity when the Word of God confronts them in their error.
In emotional reaction they begin to grab verses out of context, and demand that what they want it to mean, is what it means.

Case in point, you just added your own NON-objective interpretation and determined that "belly" means emotion when it could mean gluttony. But all irrelevant because *objectively* the verse you cite is about "enemies of the Cross of Christ" NOT believers as you mistakenly say.

 

[prism]

Well to be frank, I simply shared my testimony. I cannot verify to you because you weren't there. I can only verify for me who was present. The irony is that skeptics will never be convinced by anything less than something so crazy and impossible to believe natural law defying event, and yet it is that very thing that keeps them from believing-- it's too crazy to believe. I understand this and don't blame you or anyone one bit for not believing. If someone told me the things I shared, I'd think it crazy and impossible to believe too! That's honestly why I almost never talk about it outside friends and family. In fact this is the first time I've ever talked about it to strangers online in the 25 years since it happened. So unfortunately you're right. I can't verify to you. It's too crazy to believe. But for me I can't unsee what I've seen and so anyone insisting that it's impossible or I didn't see it who wasn't there is hollow and like a blind person trying to argue with me that there's no such thing as sight when I'm seeing right now. Again, I can't deny what I know I saw. I can't unsee what I saw. And I can't find any justification for the suggestion that it was demonic because it resulted in people coming to Christ. So if it was satan or "lying wonders" as you suggest then it backfired on the enemy. But I truly do appreciate your concern and share your concern that there are counterfeit signs and so we truly need to be discerning.

In Christ

My condolences, I take it you are referring to your testimony and if so, I am in the exact same boat for 49 years.

 

[TB2]

My condolences, I take it you are referring to your testimony and if so, I am in the exact same boat for 49 years.

No condolences necessary. Miracles are very specific to specific times and places and people. They're usually not meant to be verified by people who weren't there but by those who were (which is why I never talk about it--not sure why I made the exception to the rule. I think at the time someone was asking me to share more). It's very personal and not always meant to be shared (especially if your pearls will just end up getting trampled by swine). It is enough that we know what we saw and it is enough the change that God produced in us. Amen?

 

[Iconoclast]

Yes, wonderful verses about the Spirit's guidance!

I am glad you think they are good verses. What do you think those passages teach?

This really bothers me that you say my testimony is not true. Accusing me of lying is straight from the enemy. Have you read the book of Job? God does refer to himself in the third person.

Did I call you a liar? I am going to explain it this way.....A middle aged woman told me the Angel Moroni appeared in her living room and told her the book of Mormon was true. What would you say to her? I did not believe her.

 

[prism]

No condolences necessary. Miracles are very specific to specific times and places and people. They're usually not meant to be verified by people who weren't there but by those who were (which is why I never talk about it--not sure why I made the exception to the rule. I think at the time someone was asking me to share more). It's very personal and not always meant to be shared (especially if your pearls will just end up getting trampled by swine). It is enough that we know what we saw and it is enough the change that God produced in us. Amen?

Yes, I made the mistake of sharing as a babe in the Lord and got back the comment, 'all heavenly minded and no earthly good".
From then on I was convinced that 'supernatural' experiences/miracles were for 'private consumption' only

 

[TB2]

I am glad you think they are good verses. What do you think those passages teach?

They speak of the promised Holy Spirit to be poured out on the Day of Pentecost

 

[Iconoclast]

They speak of the promised Holy Spirit to be poured out on the Day of Pentecost

Is that what those chapters speak of?
Who was Jesus speaking to?
On the day of Pentecost Peter said...This is That spoken of by the Prophet Joel acts2:16. He did not say this is what Jesus said.

 

[Iconoclast]

They speak of the promised Holy Spirit to be poured out on the Day of Pentecost

Those Promises made in JN.14,15,16...were to the Apostles, not to the whole church.

 

[TB2]

Those Promises made in JN.14,15,16...were to the Apostles, not to the whole church.

Not according to Peter's speech on the day of Pentecost Acts 2. Not according to the WHOLE of Pauline theology

 

[Arial]

(Oops, I just realized I thought I was talking to someone else, Arial. So if some of it doesn't make sense, you'll understand why. The gist is still the same. Best)

Well to be frank, I simply shared my testimony. I cannot verify to you because you weren't there. I can only verify for me who was present. The irony is that skeptics will never be convinced by anything less than something so crazy and impossible to believe natural law defying event, and yet it is that very thing that keeps them from believing-- it's too crazy to believe. I understand this and don't blame you or anyone one bit for not believing. If someone told me the things I shared, I'd think it crazy and impossible to believe too! That's honestly why I almost never talk about it outside friends and family. In fact this is the first time I've ever talked about it to strangers online in the 25 years since it happened. So unfortunately you're right. I can't verify to you. It's too crazy to believe. But for me I can't unsee what I've seen and so anyone insisting that it's impossible or I didn't see it who wasn't there is hollow and like a blind person trying to argue with me that there's no such thing as sight when I'm seeing right now. Again, I can't deny what I know I saw. I can't unsee what I saw. And I can't find any justification for the suggestion that it was demonic because it resulted in people coming to Christ. So if it was satan or "lying wonders" as you suggest then it backfired on the enemy. But I truly do appreciate your concern and share your concern that there are counterfeit signs and so we truly need to be discerning.

In Christ

Well I was just pointing out how frequently some use credentials, theirs or someone else's, as the criteria for accepting something---and even more amazed at how often people are swayed by such a foundational fallacy.

My objections are not based on something being too crazy or impossible to believe. That "accusation" is also simply another tactic used to discount the sceptic's scepticism.

My objection is based on the fact that what we see publically 99% of the time is unscriptural. The fact that such things occur in the Bible does not make them scriptural when they occur outside of it. They were serving a purpose in the times that are in the Bible. I am sure I do not have to explain to you what the purpose was and why it occurred through who they occurred through. It's NT purpose has been served, and is recorded for all future generations there. God does not use them as the means of authenticating people or as proving again His word. (The explosion of so called signs and wonders, healings, miracles etc. is in fact another by product of losing touch with the doctrine that says faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God, and thinking that people have to choose Jesus, therefore need to be persuaded by evidence.)

And to say that the proof is in the pudding---people got saved because of these miracles----is also a fallacy because you can't know whether they did or not. The assumption that they did is often based only on them repeating a prayer.

And don't forget Jesus' own words " And many will come to me saying 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?'" And He said He never knew them. Don't forget all the people who followed Him for a time and then no longer did who He said came for the loaves and fishes.

 

[TB2]

My objections are not based on something being too crazy or impossible to believe. That "accusation" is also simply another tactic used to discount the sceptic's scepticism.

Really? I'd think it was too crazy to believe if I heard it

Well I was just pointing out how frequently some use credentials, theirs or someone else's, as the criteria for accepting something---and even more amazed at how often people are swayed by such a foundational fallacy.

As I noted I didn't say that to convince you, but as a scientist you can sure bet that I was considering and checking for all manner of trickery and deception before during and after

My objection is based on the fact that what we see publically 99% of the time is unscriptural. The fact that such things occur in the Bible does not make them scriptural when they occur outside of it

Sounds like you are limiting miracles to the Bible when the Bible doesn't do that

And don't forget Jesus' own words " And many will come to me saying 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?'"

Yes, of course there is the counterfeit but there's also the real thing

God does not use them as the means of authenticating people or as proving again His word.

And yet that is one of the main purposes and functions (and also of the Holy Spirit) to authenticate and confirm the gospel message with *power*

 

[Mantis]

No. I never mentioned anything or said you were lying. Why did you come to that conclusion?

Sorry I replied to the wrong person

 

[Mantis]

I am glad you think they are good verses. What do you think those passages teach?

Did I call you a liar? I am going to explain it this way.....A middle aged woman told me the Angel Moroni appeared in her living room and told her the book of Mormon was true. What would you say to her? I did not believe her.

Well yeah that’s the way I took it, sorry if I misunderstood you. You said Jesus wouldn’t say what he said to me. So I assumed you said I was lying. That happened to me and it is very biblical. John 10:27 exactly. It was Jesus and I would bet my life on it. Through this experience I realized I know him and I have safety and security and a sense of salvation. To disregard my testimony is insulting to me. This single event changed my entire life. Through this event I have gained patience and dissolved fear. I have eternal security. That wasn’t the devil talking to me that night.

As far as that middle aged woman that saw an “angel”, why don’t you believe her? Because you haven’t experienced anything like that? Do you think she was lying to you? She may have very well met the devil transformed to a being of light and her experience was probably real to her. Why dismiss it?

And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

 

[Arial]

Really? I'd think it was too crazy to believe if I heard it

I'm not you.

As I noted I didn't say that to convince you, but as a scientist you can sure bet that I was considering and checking for all manner of trickery and deception before during and after

No I can't. I only have your statements on a forum. I don't even know if you are really a scientist. I am not saying you aren't. I am saying I have no way of knowing.

Sounds like you are limiting miracles to the Bible when the Bible doesn't do that

The Bible doesn't actually talk about any miracles outside of the Bible or say that there are any so-----.

But let me clarify. I am not saying God no longer does miracles. I am saying they are not the norm in the church today. I am not saying that God never heals as that would be ludicrous. If someone is healed it is because God healed, irregardless of the means He used. I am not saying He never does it through what we would call miraculous intervention. I am saying He does not do it on demand. I believe we should always ask. And I don't believe He does it by putting on a show.

And I am not saying that we do not experience God. That too would be ludicrous. A covenant relationship with Him is a personal relationship. A personal relationship does not exist without experiencing the person, in this case God. That is not the same thing as having experiences. And I am not saying a person never has those. But one has to be careful to put them in a proper perspective, and they should as a general rule be considered as a private thing between them and Go, and not as proof of something. There are thousands and thousand of people who have had experiences they believe are from God and then because of that experience come up with entire religions that are antithetical to Christianity, as well as doctrines that are then called Christian when they do not fit what the Bible actually teaches.

And I am not saying that the Holy Spirit never moves in ways in a church that produce intense emotions, though that too is rare rather than common and is serving a purpose of God that changes hearts. A mass reconciliation in a sense as happened in the first Great Awakening with Jonathan Edwards. The key to its authenticity is found in what was being preached. Christ was being preached. God was being preached, as to who they are and who we before them. People were being convicted and turning to the Savior for rescue. And when Edwards saw it becoming of the flesh, he shut it down.

Finny got the idea that the way to save people was to create a certain atmosphere that stirred up emotions to a fever pitch and then ask the people to choose Christ. The second great awakening was all flesh because it was feeding the flesh. And on it goes.

 

[EarlyActs]

Yes, I made the mistake of sharing as a babe in the Lord and got back the comment, 'all heavenly minded and no earthly good".
From then on I was convinced that 'supernatural' experiences/miracles were for 'private consumption' only

The event of Pentecost was an unmistakable signal to Israel that it was supposed to be missionaries to the world, specifically in that generation, I Cor 14's quote of Isaiah. Those who attended Pentecost heard a complete explanation of the Christ event and enthronement. When they returned home to about 17 diverse places/synagogues, they could hardly help explaining the unusual event, and the Gospel. More on this in THE ENTHRONED KING one of my books at Amazon.

All of this is because all indication in the NT is that that generation was the final. Israel would be decimated by a 2nd destruction for its failure, and the whole world judged. Hence 'right after these (these 1st cent. events in Judea)...' in Mt 24:29.

But of course a delay was allowed for. This is done 3 ways: 'only the Father knows,' the parable of the 4 possible times of the return of the Master, and 2 Peter 3, expressly written about this issue. Referring to the certainty of the world judgement back during the Cataclysm, Peter says it is grace that has delayed the coming one. It will seriously help you grasp the NT if you do not deny the world judgement back then.

A few other miracles establish the authority of the apostles, but since they are gone, I don't know if there is the same need. It was obviously very important that their authority be established compared to ours; we have theirs by proxy.

Jesus taught them for 40 days what the OT was saying about these things, and his enthronement, and why the destruction of Israel would happen shortly. These things should be our essential defense of Christian faith rather than our own miracles, which I have had happen.