Who is the AntiChrist? (Identifying Him)

[eclipseEventSigns]

I'm old school on this. The anti-Christ is an Assyrian and emerges from that ancient area. The little horn comes out of the ancient Grecian empire. THE anti-Christ is not a global dictator. He unites a mid-eastern Islamic coalition of nations to take out Israel. I'm always willing to change my mind on this, but as of now, that's the way I see it.

That is not an "old school" view. The majority of historical christianity has either thought it was all fulfilled or thought that the anti-christ is a Roman Pope.

 

[eclipseEventSigns]

[Your original post is so long, it cannot be replied to. We have Bibles, we have www.biblegateway.com. Perhaps you can remember that all you need to show are key phrases of a text. ]



The other visions of Daniel do not have us leave the scene of the Roman empire at that time. The opening of the NT is flooded with the kingdom is here--referring to what Daniel said. You are thinking it would be the same kind of kingdom. It is not.

It is true that both Ps 2 and 110 speak of a future day of crushing all enemies of the Son, but there is no mistake: the Son was enthroned by the resurrection as Lord and Christ, and this is an imperative kingdom: We must honor him, we must subject to Him.

Don't look for external significations like other kingdoms have; it is not that kind.

Why do you bother commenting if you have no intention of reading what is written. If you are going to be so lazy with everyone and not read what is written, just stop commenting.

 

[Hobie]

Paul warned the Christian community living in the first century about falling away. He was not writing to people living on the other side of the world 20 centuries later.

That is correct. He was concerned about the New Testament Church, not the post-New Testament Church.

Prove it.

No, it does not. The world is a mess but it's always been a mess and one of the chief reasons the world is in the mess it's in today is because of modern futurism. Modern futurists are constantly making baseless claims about the future that never come true and everyone hearing them knows there is never a word they say that ever comes true. They bear a bad witness to Christ, given reason for non-believers to ignore the Church, and get in the way of all the rest of Christendom doing the work directed in scripture. Modern futurists constantly subjugate scripture to modern news casts (rather than the other way around) and make things written about conditions existing in the first century applicable today as if they were irrelevant to the time in which they were originally written. When this is pointed out they then either repeatedly change the subject or attack the critic.

It's a very serious problem.


This op is not about falling away, a man of sin or son of perdition, falling away, an apostate church or counterfeit gospel or that history shows what persists today. ALL of that reads as you failing to stick ot the specified topic in your own thread.

Who is the antichrist?

The antichrist was someone who lived in the first century AD. According to John, the antichrists were living when John wrote his epistles, was expected to come during or immediately following the "last hour," and was among those who denied the Father and the Son and denied Jesus is the anointed one of God, did not confess Jesus is from God and came in the flesh. There is absolutely nothing in the Bible explicitly stating THE antichrist will live in the 21st century. There's not explicit mention of the antichrist at all in Revelation. There is no explicit mention of an antichrist in the entire book of Daniel, either.​

​

Sadly, many Christian leaders throughout our history have abused scripture in countless ways to make various people the antichrist in error. This is one of the saddest parts of our history and one of the leading causes in modernity why outsiders marginalize the Church. No one is going to believe anyone group of people who ALWAYS fail in what they teach. It bears a bad witness and obstructs the work of the Church.​

Either agree with the above or prove it incorrect.

And who was there, the Roman Empire and as Paul says, when it was set aside this "son of perdition" would show itself. "For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way."

Lets look at the whole section of the text on this..
2 Thessalonians 2:1-9
1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

Paul also adds more on this issue..
Acts 20:29-31
29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.

So we clearly see that Paul said, “Of your own selves,” that is from among the men who had been chosen to guide and care for the church of Christ, there would be those who would pervert their calling in order to build up their own influence rather than the truth. We see the beginning of the falling away of which Paul referred to in his counsel to the elders, or bishops, of the church at Ephesus, whom he called to meet him at Miletus. He said, “For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. " Acts 20:29-30

As we read the apostles warnings in the New Testament, we see them constantly in conflict with this evil, fighting its influence and guarding against its workings. As we see in 2 Thessalonians 2:7, the mystery of iniquity was already working and it was at work as the Scriptures had predicted, and barely were the apostles dead when this entity actually appeared in the church.

A biblical scholar said, “No sooner were the apostles removed from the stage of action, no sooner was their watchful attentions gone and their apostolic authority removed, than this very thing appeared of which the apostle had spoken. Certain bishops, in order to make easier the conversion of the heathen, to multiply disciples, and by this increase their own influence and authority, began to adopt heathen customs and forms.” The Great Empires of Prophecy, 377, by Alonzo T. Jones.

In order to make easier the conversion of the heathen, to multiply the numbers, especially in the church at Rome, , they lowered the standard for church fellowship, and let waves of pagan "converts" come in. And it wasnt just the flood of them, but also the old rites and rituals and worship that also was allowed in. We find from history, "It is certain that to religious worship, both public and private, many rites were added, without necessity, and to the offense of sober and good men." -- "Ecclesiastical History," Century ii, part ii, chap. iv, par. 1.

The Christians were pronounced 'atheists', because they didn't have temples, altars, priests, and all that rites and rituals that were suppose by pagans to be the essence of religion to consist of. Soon there was a shift in the church to accommodate the Christian worship and its forms to that of the pagans. Of all the ceremonies of the pagans, the mysteries were the most sacred and most universally practiced, so soon it made its appearance in the church. Most were connected or a basically the incarnation of the sun, and the mysteries being a form of sun worship. So it was simply to link the Christian worship in the minds of a people who practiced these things in the empire that the bishops 'Christianized' the name of the mysteries.

But it was still the old pagan worship, and the next step in addition to this was the adoption of the day of the sun as a festival day. And many forms of sun-worship that were practiced came in from Papal Rome, this 'man of sin', that before the close of the second century the pagans themselves charged the "Christians" with worshiping the sun.

 

[Hobie]

Now in addition to changing the Sabbath to what the masses had celebrated as a pagan festival day, many of the old Roman gods from pagan times started to be brought into the church. Here are a few of the pagan gods and how they were renamed to let their worship continue:

Demeter is a goddess of many festivals but most important, the Thesmophoria, which fell in late October. She became St. Demetrios, a masculine warrior saint, whose fd. is 10/26.

Aphrodite became St. Aphrodite, of which there are several, all with saints' tales that tell how she became a "repentant harlot."

Nike was picked up as Saint Nicholas, who was extremely popular wherever shipping was important. He is the patron saint of Russian, Holland and Germany, all on the north sea coast.

The Roman god Mars was originally a god who guarded wheat fields. He became St. Martin (esp. St. Martin-in-the-fields). Although March is the month associated with Mars (it was the beginning of the military campaigning season in Roman times), the major festival for him in Christian times now usually falls in February, called Mardi Gras "Great Mars."

The Roman god Quirinus became St. Cyrinus, of which there are various "equestrian warrior saints" such as St. Cyr in France, and St. Quirina, mother of St. Lawrence. The element quir- means (or was understood to mean) `horse.' These saints were very popular and widely worshiped in the Middle-Ages, in France, Holland and also eastern Christian countries.

The Roman gods known as the Lares became St. Lawrence, esp. St. Lawrence beyond-the-wall. The Lares were field gods who protected the grain growing in the fields. In Italian, he became St. Lorenzo beyond the Walls, meaning outside of the walls of the city, for which there is still a church in Rome, with many "daughter" churches which developed from it.

The Roman goddess Venus became St. Venera (with a feminized ending to her name since -us looks like a masculine ending in Latin). She had a major church in Rome in early Christian times, but that didn't last long.

The Roman gods known as the Gemini, who were protectors of sailors in Roman pagan times, became the Sanctos Geminos, with a number of forms in the various Christian religions. Santiago de Compostela, (St. James in English) became the protector of pilgrims during the Middle Ages. Forms of St. James all seem to be christianized from various forms of the Proto-Indo-European god *Yama. This god was repeatedly christianized in most of the Indo-European language groups.

The ancient Romans worshiped gods and goddesses involved with every aspect of life. Jupiter, the chief of the gods, was the god of rain and storms, while his wife, Juno, was the goddess of womanhood. Minerva was the goddess of handicrafts and wisdom; Venus, of sexual love and birth; Vesta, of the hearth and sacred fires; Ceres, of farming and harvests.

The Greeks considered Mercury, whom they called Hermes, to be the messenger of the gods, but the Romans worshiped him as the god of trade, with businesspeople celebrating his feast day to increase profits. And there were other popular deities: Mars, god of war; Castor and Pollux, gods of sea travelers; Cronos, the guardian of time; and of course Cupid, god of love, whose magic arrows caused both human beings and immortals to fall in love.

While the Romans would call generically on "the gods," each major deity still had its own cult, and worshippers would pray and conduct religious ceremonies to a specific god or goddess to implore help.

Now lets look at St. Valentine and origins of Valentine's Day:
"The most plausible theory for St. Valentine's Day traces its customs back to the Roman Lupercalia, a feast celebrated in February in honor of the pastoral god Lupercus, a Roman version of the Greek god Pan. The festival was an important one for the Romans and, occurring when it did, naturally had some aspects of a rebirth rite to it" (St. Valentine, Cupid and Jesus Christ by Gary Petty pp. 50-51).

'Saint Brigid' was named after one of the most powerful goddesses of the Pagan religion..Probably the clearest example of the survival of an early goddess into Christian times is Brigid, the great triple goddess of the Celtic Irish. Bridget took religious vows,...and was canonized after her death by her adoptive church, which allowed the saint a curious list of attributes, coincidentally identical to those of the earlier goddess."Exerpt from Goddess & Heroines by Patricia Monaghan

Pagan gods were made Christian saints. Bacchus became St. Bacchus, and Dionysiusbecame St. Denys or Denis."-(Charles G. Berger, Our Phallic Heritage
[NY, NY: Greenwich Book Publishers, Inc., 1966],p. 154-155).

"Semiramis became known as the "queen of heaven," and was the prototype
from which all other pagan goddesses came."--World Religionsby David Terrell

"Nimrod and his mother (Semiramis) became the chief entities of worship
as a Madonna and child. This belief and practice spread to Egypt, where the names of the gods were Isis and Osiris. ....In Rome they were called Fortuna and
Jupiter."--The Bible as Historyby Werner Keller

"The Virgin [Mary] was given the title Queen of Heaven and is depicted wearing
a blue robe decorated with stars and standing on a crescent Moon. This image
is almost identical to pagan representations of the goddess of love Ishtar who was worshipped by the Babylonians."-(Michael Howard, The Occult Conspiracy:
The Power of Secret Societies in World History) Ancient statues of mother and child formerly known as the Pagan gods Isis and Horus became Mary and baby Jesus and the old forms of worship came into the church.

 

[Hobie]

They brought in all of the system of worship they had from Pagan Rome which goes all the way back to Babylon and pagan sun worship. If you look through what they documented in the many parts of history you start to see clear evidence of what they did. Take a look at what Origen, wrote: “But what is the feast of the Sabbath except that of which the apostle speaks, ‘There remaineth, therefore, a Sabbatism,’ that is, the observance of the Sabbath by the people of God? Leaving the Jewish observances of the Sabbath, let us see how the Sabbath ought to be observed by a Christian. On the Sabbath day all worldly labors ought to be abstained from. If, therefore, you cease from all secular works, and execute nothing worldly, but give yourselves up to spiritual exercises, repairing to church, attending to sacred reading and instruction … this is the observance of the Christian Sabbath.” You can see he was referring to the seventh day of the week, and there is more.. The Sabbath in the Record of the Early Fathers

The church at Rome used the Sunday festival and the change of the Passover to 'Easter' to have the pagan masses join the church. But enforced Sunday worship began with the Roman Empire, under Constantine. This can be seen in the A.D. 321 edict forbidding work on “the venerable day of the sun”—Sunday issued by Constantine. In a letter following the Nicene Council of A.D. 325, Constantine spoke of the enforcement of Sunday worship for Easter services: “At this meeting the question concerning the most holy day of Easter was discussed, and it was resolved by the united judgment of all present that this feast ought to be kept by all and in every place on one and the same day.” HOW WAS PASSOVER REPLACED BY EASTER… And Who Did It? — The Church of God International

In other words, Easter was to be kept on Sunday, and the Jewish observance of Passover was expressly forbidden. And to those who ignored the decrees of the Nicene Council, Constantine wrote, in another letter regarding Sabbath worship, “Forasmuch, then, as it is no longer possible to bear with your pernicious errors, we give warning by this present statute that none of you henceforth presume to assemble yourselves together. We have directed, accordingly, that you be deprived of all the houses in which you are accustomed to hold your assemblies: and our care in this respect extends so far as to forbid the holding of your superstitious and senseless meetings, not in public merely, but in any private house or place whatsoever. Let those of you, therefore, who are desirous of embracing the true and pure religion take the far better course of entering the Catholic Church …. [F]rom this day forward none of your unlawful assemblies may presume to appear in any public or private place. Let this edict be made public.”| Philadelphia Church of God

After Constantine gave his edict, worship on any day except Sunday basically became illegal. Then in A.D. 363, the Council of Laodicea pass another law that determined, “Christians must not Judaize by resting on the Sabbath [that is, Saturday], but must work on that day, rather honoring the Lord’s day …. But if any shall be found to be Judaizers, let them be anathema [cursed and excommunicated] from Christ.” Why did the Council of Laodicea condemn "Judaizing" Sabbath rest?

As you can clearly see, there is no question as to who changed the day of worship. It was the Roman Catholic Church, the "Of your own selves,” man of sin antichrist entity, who continues to this day and will till the end when it goes into perdition.

 

[Josheb]

And who was there, the Roman Empire and as Paul says, when it was set aside this "son of perdition" would show itself. "For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way."

Lets look at the whole section of the text on this...

No, let's not look at it. It has nothing to do with the antichrist and the sloppy copying and pasting of two completely different texts while ignoring what is specifically stated is bad exegesis. John is the only NT writer who mentions any antichrist by that label, and he explicitly stated they existed in his day and his readers were expecting the antichrist.

Believe scripture exactly as written, not as modern futurists teach it to be (mis)read.

 

[Hobie]

No, let's not look at it. It has nothing to do with the antichrist and the sloppy copying and pasting of two completely different texts while ignoring what is specifically stated is bad exegesis. John is the only NT writer who mentions any antichrist by that label, and he explicitly stated they existed in his day and his readers were expecting the antichrist.

Believe scripture exactly as written, not as modern futurists teach it to be (mis)read.

The spirit of the antichrist is what drives all these evil men and they foster the Beast of Revelation which is a antichrist entity and you see how the church at Rome was involved and took on the mantle..

 

[Josheb]

The spirit of the antichrist is...

....not the antichrist. This op is about the identity of the antichrist, not the spirit of the antichrist. You and I have the Spirit of Christ, but we are not Christ.

 

[Mr GLee]

The spirit of the antichrist is what drives all these evil men and they foster the Beast of Revelation which is a antichrist entity and you see how the church at Rome was involved and took on the mantle..

Satan the evil spirit of the many antichrists' drive out evil men. Satan casting out Satan ?

The church of Rome or any sect aa hierarchy of puffed men after the oral traditions. Catholics do it the boldest in all fleshly glory

Antichrists' a legion of false prophets, false apostles sent by the father of lies the one evil spirit that works in many liars

Mark 5:9 And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, My name is Legion: for we are many.

 

[Hobie]

....not the antichrist. This op is about the identity of the antichrist, not the spirit of the antichrist. You and I have the Spirit of Christ, but we are not Christ.

When you see the anti Christ entity or those following the spirit of the antichrist, are they all not against Christ? Its like the King and the power behind the the throne, they are working for the same ends...

 

[Josheb]

When you see the anti Christ entity or those following the spirit of the antichrist, are they all not against Christ?

Eschatologically speaking, I do not see any antichrists. They came and went long ago. Any antichrists existing today (and there are many) have nothing to do with Christian eschatology other than they'll be among those tossed in the fiery lake on the last day.

Its like the King and the power behind the the throne, they are working for the same ends...

There are lots of people "against Christ," but that does not make them antichrists as described by John. I'm not sure the "working behind the throne " is a fair analogy because there is no throne but Christ's and whoever is working behind any throne other than Christ's is enslaved to sin and not "king" of anything. Now if that was intended to mean the antichrist works at the behest of God/Jesus, then that is correct but that's not what John was communicating in his letters.

All the nefarious characters in scripture are 1) working only with the consent of God, 2) accomplishing only what God has for them to accomplish, 3) creatures subject to the Creator, and wholly enslaved to sin and thereby dead in transgression, unrighteous, and faithless.

 

[Hobie]

Eschatologically speaking, I do not see any antichrists. They came and went long ago. Any antichrists existing today (and there are many) have nothing to do with Christian eschatology other than they'll be among those tossed in the fiery lake on the last day.

There are lots of people "against Christ," but that does not make them antichrists as described by John. I'm not sure the "working behind the throne " is a fair analogy because there is no throne but Christ's and whoever is working behind any throne other than Christ's is enslaved to sin and not "king" of anything. Now if that was intended to mean the antichrist works at the behest of God/Jesus, then that is correct but that's not what John was communicating in his letters.

All the nefarious characters in scripture are 1) working only with the consent of God, 2) accomplishing only what God has for them to accomplish, 3) creatures subject to the Creator, and wholly enslaved to sin and thereby dead in transgression, unrighteous, and faithless.

With the evil you see being pushed today and being spread to even the young, you don't think there is a power behind it...

 

[Mr GLee]

When you see the anti Christ entity or those following the spirit of the antichrist, are they all not against Christ? Its like the King and the power behind the the throne, they are working for the same ends...

I would offer an anti-christ "Another teaching authority other than the living word of God." Simply false prophecy, false prophets, false apostles .

Men who say we need dying mankind to teach them and not the promise of our invisible head Christ (1 John 2:27)

The word anti-christ. I beleive is defined in Genesis . . the foundation of the teaching

The father of lies, began that kind work of deceiving in the garden. Choosing the weaker vessel Eve

. Adam had heard the voice prophecy from the Father. Adam was assigned to be the spoken person or head by which he was to protect Eve ,

When they sinned then they both heard the voice of Gods judgment walking in the garden Virtue was lost.

Prior to that again only Adam heard the voice I think a picture or parable of the two working as one The Son of man Jesus with the Father virtue will be restored in our new incorruptible bodies

Eve's false prophecy Genesis 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

Satan adding to the word of God with five words. "neither shall ye touch it". Eve believed the lie . In order to verify, Eve had believed the lie he lied her as false prophecy .. . . .Satan strengthened encouraging her .

Genesis 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

Genesis 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes(lust ) , and a tree to be desired (false pride)to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

When she touched false pride came in Adam failed to protect Eve with true prophecy

Above revealing his false power, lust of the eye drawing to the lust of the flesh .The two building blocks of false pride

1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

I think it might be why The Holy father put it in the center as God who hides Himself .Eve should of never went deep into the woods The wolf was waiting . Go ahead and touch it you will not die. .there was plenty food with in reach from the field the outside

 

[Josheb]

With the evil you see being pushed today and being spread to even the young, you don't think there is a power behind it...

Please do not tell me (or anyone else) what I think. I know my mind on this topic and am quite able to articulate my thoughts. Evil has existed since Genesis 3:6 and there is nothing new under the sun. Take a trip to Somalia, or go live with the Houthi's for as long as you can before they behead you, or Libya and see how long you last before they sell you to sodomites.

The fact remains John was the only NT writer who used the label, "antichrist," and he explicitly stated there were many and their appearance was an indication the last hour had come back then in the first century. He told his original readers, not those of us living two millennia later. There is absolutely nothing in his epistles stating the antichrist is a 21st century person.