Do believers have visions and dreams today?

[TB2]

Count how many times you have asked me already. So, please stop.

And we are good

Smh

 

[TB2]

Rather than asking to show you where?

You say it like you know there is none.

That tells me you are a beginner and novice ...

And, to try to teach you more advanced doctrine will need to wait before you can have a capacity for it.

You made the claim. I was giving you a chance to support your answer. I'll answer for you. Scripture does not expressly teach that the gifts will cease with the closing of the canon.

 

[Carbon]

You made the claim. I was giving you a chance to support your answer. I'll answer for you. Scripture does not expressly teach that the gifts will cease with the closing of the canon.

I believe you're right. I think they ceased sometime after the Apostles personally.

 

[TB2]

I believe you're right. I think they ceased sometime after the Apostles personally.

I would argue that Scripture does not expressly teach that the gifts have ceased or will cease until Christ's second coming.

 

[GeneZ]

You made the claim. I was giving you a chance to support your answer. I'll answer for you. Scripture does not expressly teach that the gifts will cease with the closing of the canon.

The problem is ... You should be knowing this by now.

And, you asked in a manner like some irate Pentecostal/ Charismatic may ask.

Last think I wish to do is to get tangled up again with either one of the two (or something similar) I mentioned.

 

[Iconoclast]

I am a little perplexed. Some have eliminated the gifts of the Spirit which God placed in the church. Now some have eliminated dreams and visions which scripture says would happen in the last days . We are a powerful church to put God in our theological lock box and limit the Holy One of Israel. Wow!

Sign Gifts and new revelation ceased with the Apostles, and the closing of the canon of scriptures.
No one is getting prophetic dreams, visions, or tongues. You have not had any vision from God. You might have thought of something that you now ascribe unto God, but it was not.

 

[Carbon]

I would argue that Scripture does not expressly teach that the gifts have ceased or will cease until Christ's second coming.

You may be right. Im not 100% convinced.

 

[TB2]

The problem is ... You should be knowing this by now.

And, you asked in a manner like some irate Pentecostal/ Charismatic may ask.

Last think I wish to do is to get tangled up again with either one of the two (or something similar) I mentioned.

Dude, we're just having a conversation. Why are you reading so much into it? If I'm bothering you that much, no problem. You don't have to keep talking to me

 

[TB2]

You may be right. Im not 100% convinced.

Fair enough. I constantly question my own beliefs on things. That's one of the reasons I come here. That whole iron sharpens iron thing

 

[TB2]

Sign Gifts and new revelation ceased with the Apostles, and the closing of the canon of scriptures.
No one is getting prophetic dreams, visions, or tongues. You have not had any vision from God. You might have thought of something that you now ascribe unto God, but it was not.

Where does Scripture expressly teach that?

 

[Iconoclast]

Below copy and paste from a previous forum of my experience meeting Jesus. This was the most profound experience of my life. I know I need to post this in the testimony section but I feel its appropriate for this thread. I posted this probably seven or eight years ago so I am in a different place with my walk now. As far as this lining up with the Bible. Check out John 10:27. I found this passage AFTER meeting Jesus. Just mind blowing for me. He is my Lord and God. But anyway here is my testimony:

It started with sleep paralysis. I was choked by a shadow entity, it was terrifying. It was a very dark time in my life which I think attracts demons. At the time I was reading books and practicing lucid dreaming etc. I was also miserable and a drunk. Fornication was the norm, bars etc. My life was a hungover mess.

Well one night I had a moment of serious repentance. I was tired of living this life, trapped in sin. I started praying to God. I was open to the idea of God but didn't subscribe to any religion as I thought they were all man made. I thought christianity was the least likely of all of the religions to be true, but I knew in my heart that there was a God. I needed God and I knew it.

So I started praying in my bed one night. Just to "God" be it Buddha, Allah, spaghetti monster, YHWH or whoever God was. I was almost in a trance but well aware of my surroundings. I heard a voice, then two voices. Not audibly but more like a telepathic communication. I was floored. These were two male voices speaking to me. I started asking questions about the spirit world and they were answering my questions. Now the whole time we are having this conversation, they are speaking friendly to me but I can feel a sinister hate toward me from them. I knew it was a charade. I knew they were evil, I realized I had some spiritual discernment. The whole feel or vibe was very dark, so I asked "Is there any humor in the spirit world?" And right away one of the voices tells me a joke that had to do with the proliferation of the "Smith" family. I can't remember the joke but I remember laughing. Later I realized this was was a joke about the mormons and how the demons deceived millions of people to that cult.

Well about that time the whole vibe changes dramatically. I feel something very good approaching. I see closed eye visuals of these blue crystals growing and like out folding from each other. I say "God is here" and then I hear the two male voices say "What is he doing here?" and "I don't know" and they disappeared, they fled.

Then I hear my name called in a gentle voice...."Ian". Then again "Ian". I say "Yes?". Then he says "You have sinned against the Lord". I know who it is right away. It is Christ Jesus. I know the voice. And I realize some how from before time, we know each other and I am astonished.

I hang my head in shame. I don't even ask what my sin is, I have too many sins to count. I am lower than a worm. Now the whole time he is speaking I do not feel condemned. Instead I feel a love from him that is unlike anything I have ever experienced from earth born life. A love that is unimaginable. A love I never want to leave. I realize he is offering me a hope, salvation.

"You have sinned against the Lord. You have three choices. You can go to prison, die, or live with pain, extreme pain. But I will be with you and I will bless you and many people will come to the Lord through you."

I choose option #3.

He then says "If we are going to do this we need to be head to head, heart to heart and fist to fist."

This happened well over a decade ago. Well here I am today with extreme pain. I have extensive nerve pain from something in my back/spinal cord. I have spent over $25,000 trying to diagnose and fix my back. I walk with a cain most of the time. I had spinal cord stimulator surgery and I am heavily medicated. I have to go to physical therapy and chiropractor all the time. I can't stand, sit or drive for any decent amount of time. And as miserable as that sounds it gives me comfort. God is doing a work in me. I have came so far from that first meeting. I praise God, devour the Bible. I have been baptized. I love the Lord so much.

I am an introvert. I cannot see me being a preacher as those people are extroverts. I have no idea what his plans are for my life. I am the only christian in my family. I thank God for revealing himself to me and pulling me from darkness.

By his stripes we are healed, in God we trust.

This is not true at all.
Jesus is Lord, He would not speak in the third person saying you have sinned against the Lord....

Where does Scripture expressly teach that?

Hello TBs,
12 Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds.

The Apostles were unique. Jesus made promises to them that THEY would be guided into all truth in jn 14, 15, 16...they were

You do not have those promises

 

[Iconoclast]

The Spirit is actively at work today just as in the first century, in all manner of ways, including prophetic dreams and visions

Not happening anywhere.

 

[GeneZ]

Sign Gifts and new revelation ceased with the Apostles, and the closing of the canon of scriptures.
No one is getting prophetic dreams, visions, or tongues. You have not had any vision from God. You might have thought of something that you now ascribe unto God, but it was not.

Trouble is when some confuse premonition type dreams for prophetic dreams.

 

[Carbon]

Fair enough. I constantly question my own beliefs on things. That's one of the reasons I come here. That whole iron sharpens iron thing

Well, I am glad you do come here. I agree iron sharpens iron.

 

[TB2]

Not happening anywhere.

And what is your Scriptural evidence for that claim?

 

[TB2]

This is not true at all.
Jesus is Lord, He would not speak in the third person saying you have sinned against the Lord....

Hello TBs,
12 Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds.

The Apostles were unique. Jesus made promises to them that THEY would be guided into all truth in jn 14, 15, 16...they were

You do not have those promises

The gifts of the Spirit are given to the Body of Christ in 1 Corinthians. Where does it say in Scripture that they would cease?

How could Stephen (who was not an apostle) work signs and wonders then?

 

[Carbon]

The gifts of the Spirit are given to the Body of Christ in 1 Corinthians. Where does it say in Scripture that they would cease?

How could Stephen (who was not an apostle) work signs and wonders then?

What is the need for them?

Do you know what they were given for?

 

[GeneZ]

Where does Scripture expressly teach that?

Do you know why it says that tongues were a sign to the unbeliever?

​

Tongues, then, are a sign, not for believers but for unbelievers; ​

prophecy, however, is not for unbelievers but for believers." 1 Cor 14:22​

And, do you know why Paul said that even if the unbelievers involved were spoken to in tongues?
That even when spoken to in tongues they would still refuse to believe?

​

Brothers and sisters, stop thinking like children. ​

In regard to evil be infants, but in your thinking be adults. ​

In the Law it is written:​

​

“With other tongues​

and through the lips of foreigners​

I will speak to this people,​

but even then they will not listen to me,​

says the Lord.” 1 Corinthians 14:20-21​

Tongues were not designed to save people.
But to give a sign to those defying God just like Pharaoh was given tremendous signs and yet refused to believe.
Tongues was intended for Jews who were refusing to believe that Jesus was the Messiah.

Israel was judged by God in 70 AD.
Just like Egypt was judged in the Passover.

For in 70 AD, Titus of Rome destroyed Jerusalem and the Temple.
From then on? Tongues ceased being a sign to the "unbeliever."
Just like signs in Egypt ceased after Pharaoh was killed with his army.

We have got to know why the gift of tongues was given.

If not?

Believers will be suckered into a hypnotic power sphere that witches and the occult do.
Pagans who find themselves speaking in tongues, from not God.. But, by demonically influenced powers.

To know that tongues ceased protects from demonic influence those who have ears to hear.

grace and peace ..................

 

[TB2]

Do you know why it says that tongues were a sign to the unbeliever?

​

Tongues, then, are a sign, not for believers but for unbelievers; ​

prophecy, however, is not for unbelievers but for believers." 1 Cor 14:22​

And, do you know why Paul said that even if the unbelievers involved were spoken to in tongues?
That even when spoken to in tongues they would still refuse to believe?

​

Brothers and sisters, stop thinking like children. ​

In regard to evil be infants, but in your thinking be adults. ​

In the Law it is written:​

​

“With other tongues​

and through the lips of foreigners​

I will speak to this people,​

but even then they will not listen to me,​

says the Lord.” 1 Corinthians 14:20-21​

Tongues were not designed to save people.
But to give a sign to those defying God just like Pharaoh was given tremendous signs and yet refused to believe.
Tongues was intended for Jews who were refusing to believe that Jesus was the Messiah.

Israel was judged by God in 70 AD.
Just like Egypt was judged in the Passover.

For in 70 AD, Titus of Rome destroyed Jerusalem and the Temple.
From then on? Tongues ceased being a sign to the "unbeliever."
Just like signs in Egypt ceased after Pharaoh was killed with his army.

We have got to know why the gift of tongues was given.

If not?

Believers will be suckered into a hypnotic power sphere that witches and the occult do.
Pagans who find themselves speaking in tongues, from not God.. But, by demonically influenced powers.

To know that tongues ceased protects from demonic influence those who have ears to hear.

grace and peace ..................

In 1 Corinthians 14.1- we see that the gift of tongues can also be for private prayer between the tongue speaker and God. Paul says he wished all would speak in tongues, that he speaks in tongues more than anyone, and not to forbid speaking in tongues" but that it shouldn't be done in corporate worship without interpretation

 

[GeneZ]

In 1 Corinthians 14.1- we see that the gift of tongues can also be for private prayer between the tongue speaker and God. Paul says he wished all would speak in tongues, that he speaks in tongues more than anyone, and not to forbid speaking in tongues" but that it shouldn't be done in corporate worship without interpretation

People that fail to see the reason for tongues, and why they were to cease, love to quote passages that speak positively about tongues.
Passages that were written while the gift was still in operation!

You will not find any pro-tongues passage written after the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD.
No more than we will read of God giving signs in Egypt after the Pharaoh and his army were destroyed in the Red Sea.

God gave Pharaoh signs knowing full well that Pharaoh would not believe!
Likewise for tongues as a sign to unbelieving Jews who refused to believe in Jesus!

“With other tongues​

and through the lips of foreigners​

I will speak to this people,​

but even then they will not listen to me,​

says the Lord.” 1 Corinthians 14:21​

Not all signs God gives are to win people to the Lord! Look at Pharaoh!


grace and peace ....................