Decisional Regeneration vs. Divine Regeneration

[JIM]

define divine revelation. please

Are you asking what divine revelation is?

 

[Alive]

Are you asking what divine revelation is?

No. I am asking you how you define it in the context of your statement cited.

 

[JIM]

No. I am asking you how you define it in the context of your statement cited.

revelation -- the act of revealing or disclosing

divine -- proceeding from God

 

[Red Baker]

I am assuming here when you speak of receiving divine revelation from heaven you mean that God has spoken to you directly; that is, not through any other medium such as His written word.

Jim, you are assuming incorrect. God has never spoken to me directly, that's not how divine revelation takes place.

No man can do better than what our Lord described how this takes place. Jesus compared it to the wind that blows.

John 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.​

The wind bloweth where it listeth.​

Wind blows where it chooses or wants to blow without any influence by man.

Listeth. To be pleasing to. I please, choose, like, care, or desire. [OED]. God sends the wind – it blows where He chooses (Job 37:9-24; Ps 107:23-31).

And thou hearest the sound thereof.

All we can know is the effect, evidence, or results of the wind already blowing.

The wind, or God the ruler of the wind, causes it to blow wherever He chooses.

What is the sound we can hear of the wind, when transferred to regeneration?

Here we appeal again to the evidence, results, and proof of being born again. Sons of God believe the gospel concerning Jesus Christ (Jn 5:24;

I Jn 5:1,4). Sons of God love brethren, especially the least, for Him (I Jn 4:7; 3:14; 5:1). Sons of God do righteousness, for that is part of His character (I Jn 2:28-29). Sons of God do not sin habitually, due to the regenerate seed (I Jn 3:9; 5:18). Sons of God choose and do God’s pleasure, as in the context (Phil 2:12-16). Sons of God, new creatures, do good works (Ep 2:10; Ga 6:15; II Co 5:17). Sons of God walk in the Spirit bearing His fruit (Gal 5:16-25; Rom 8:1-14).

But canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth.​

We have no knowledge of where the wind comes from or when and why and as well where the wind is going or when and why. We are fully ignorant of where wind has been and where wind will go next. The key is wind is sovereign, we cannot know it, and only evidence shows.

So is every one that is born of the Spirit.​

There are in this verse three keys of comparison between wind and the Spirit.

First, the wind is sovereign and chooses to blow wherever it has decided. Second, we do not know anything about the wind’s origin or its destination. Third, the only thing we can know about wind is its presence by its effects.

We must be born again by the Holy Spirit, but the birth is beyond our influence. The Holy Spirit is totally sovereign in regenerating whomever He will. We do not know where the Spirit has been or where the Spirit will go next. We can tell that the Spirit has done His work by the evidence in the person. Being born again is like how the wind blows – where and when God sends it.

So. In the way or manner described, indicated, or suggested; in that style or fashion. Compare other Bible arguments based on so e.g. Romans 5:19.

We cannot know the origin or destination of wind, neither can we the Spirit . We cannot find, control, or redirect the wind, neither can we with the Spirit. There are no exceptions to this rule of regeneration: God saves whom He will.

Every one that is born of the Spirit is born the same way – by God’s choice. There is no other way to be born of the Spirit – so we are dependent on God. Therefore, all human ideas, plans, efforts are utterly vain for regeneration. The Spirit clearly has a will and dispenses His spiritual gifts by it (I Cor 12:11). This agrees with God’s mercy and compassion by His will (Rom 9:15-16). God works His wonders in men as it seems good to Him (Matt 11:25-26).

Jim~So far in all my years, no one has ever been able to prove to me or anyone else that they have received divine revelation from God directly.

Jim, we only know this by our fruits, and even we ourselves have never personally, known when God is opening our hearts to his truths, we only know this by our faith in his word, knowing that all that we enjoy as far as knowledge, etc, was freely given to us by God, or else we would be as blind as the next man.

1st Corinthians 4:7​

“For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?”

Jim, if you believe any truth, that truth was freely given to you, or else you would have never believe in the scriptures, much less dedicating your life to defending its truth as you understand them.

 

[Alive]

revelation -- the act of revealing or disclosing

divine -- proceeding from God

Can you provide an example of what would satisfy you?

Jim, you are assuming incorrect. God has never spoken to me directly, that's not how divine revelation takes place.

Do you not believe the Lord speaks to His sons directly?

 

[Arial]

Do I really need to explain that verse to you?

No. Don't be insulting. I am just wondering why you are using it in response to my post.

 

[Arial]

First, the wind is sovereign and chooses to blow wherever it has decided.

I would make an adjustment to the wording of this as there is only one sovereign. It is God who directs the path of the wind.

Ps 135:7 He causes the vapors to ascend from the ends of the earth;
Who makes lightnings for the rain,
Who brings forth the wind from His treasuries.

 

[Carbon]

There is nowhere in the whole of the NT that says that faith comes after regeneration, and it most certainly is not said in John 3.

Well sure there is, and its taught throughout scripture.

 

[Carbon]

Yes, Carbon, Really. If God can regenerate a heart anytime, anywhere, with anyone, then why doesn't He?

Oh, He does Jim, all the time.

 

[Carbon]

No, why would you ask?

Are you a pelagian?

 

[Red Baker]

Do you not believe the Lord speaks to His sons directly?

No, not with an audible voice.

 

[Carbon]

No, not with an audible voice.

Through His living word.

 

[Red Baker]

Through His living word.

Amen!​

Acts 13:27​

“For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him.”

 

[Alive]

No, not with an audible voice.

How about a still small voice?

 

[JIM]

Well sure there is, and its taught throughout scripture.

So give me a reference where you think it says, or teaches that believing comes after being born again and perhaps we can talk about it.

 

[JIM]

Are you a pelagian?

No, I am a Christian.

 

[JIM]

No. Don't be insulting. I am just wondering why you are using it in response to my post.

If you think I was being insulting, then I apologize. I didn't intend it so. I think the verse answers your question as well as it could be.

 

[Arial]

If you think I was being insulting, then I apologize. I didn't intend it so. I think the verse answers your question as well as it could be.

This was the topic that sparked the question. See how far off track you have taken the conversation by not actually addressing the content below. The topic being the OP title.

Not a single one of them was faithful, not even David, though David was called the apple of His eye. The difference was David's heart---same as it is with the believer of today. God can regenerate a heart anytime, anywhere, with anyone. The difference in David's sins---for which he dearly paid and the nation paid since he was their king---is that David loved God, loved the commandments, and the thing he never did was go after other gods.

If God had expected that any sinful man could obey perfectly there would not have been temporary covering as redemption moved forward. And if any could be perfectly righteous, we would all be on our own----no atonement that destroyed sin and death.

 

[JIM]

Can you provide an example of what would satisfy you?

The Bible is the only divine revelation which gives you any reliable information about God, who and what He is and what He requires of us.

Do you not believe the Lord speaks to His sons directly?

No, not really. I have never met anyone who claimed that God spoke to him directly that could verify the authenticity of the claim. Bring together any two who make such a claim and what they claim to have been told will as often as not be inconsistent if not outright contradictory.

 

[Alive]

The Bible is the only divine revelation which gives you any reliable information about God, who and what He is and what He requires of us.

No, not really. I have never met anyone who claimed that God spoke to him directly that could verify the authenticity of the claim. Bring together any two who make such a claim and what they claim to have been told will as often as not be inconsistent if not outright contradictory.

Thanks for the response.