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Who invented the invitation system?

Does the Bible say that the doctrines of grace in Reformed theology are necessary for salvation?
Curious why you feel the need to ask me that.
They have not been taught in the majority of our churches for over a hundred years. Has no one been saved, and is no one saved in those churches with altar calls?
No, I do not believe anyone was saved with alter calls. Alter calls do not save as far as I'm concerned.
Were the majority of Reformed on this forum not saved if they thought for the first half of their Christian walk that they made a choice---when in fact they did make a choice. They just didn't know what lay behind that choice and came before it.
Sounds like you're wrestling yourself with this. Personally, I do not know exactly when I was saved. Actually, I don't think it is necessary, it may be nice to know, and perhaps some do know, but it is not necessary as far as I can tell.
It is out of ignorance that people believe that free will and they truly do not see it as contributing to their salvation.
Probably some new believers who really don't know about these things. But go ask more of our brothers and sisters who are Arminians and I think you will see that quite differently.
And the reason they don't is because they never follow it through to its natural conclusion.
They don't know any better to follow it through, because it is natural to them. As it was natural to me at one time also.
And people are afraid to fear God.
We have no fear of God.
Their knowledge of God is limited because of it. Their being able to interpret Bible texts without contradictions comes into play. Every aspect of the work of Christ is limited. The body of Christ is severely wounded because of it. But if God has saved them, they have been saved. And if he hasn't, they aren't.
 
@Mr GLee
Again, I must ask for a direct answer: Is Jesus Christ come in the flesh?
Hi thanks

Every word has a meaning attached. Adding or subtracting from even one word violates the warning. Deuteronomy 4:2 You could say spiritual plagiarism in violation the first commandment

The word Jesus Christ must be rightly divided. Christ meaning the anointing teacher the Holy Spirit. apposed to the antichrist another teaching authority oral traditons of dying mankind . Christ the teaching authority .

Christ in Emanuel, God with us the hope of His glory

Jesus means savior just like Joshua . Christ working in the Son of man to both reveal his eternal will and empower him to do it to the unseen Holy Father .

You could say two kinds of saviors of the bride mutually working as one, empower by Christ the husband.

The Son of man Jesus as savior. Used to outwardly display the invisible power of the unseen Father, Jehovah as savior (Philippians 2:13 )

Will and do to. . . the good pleasure of one .

Two is the one witness God not seen has spoken . Will and do . "Let there be" and "it is" the law of faith
 
Hi thanks

Every word has a meaning attached. Adding or subtracting from even one word violates the warning. Deuteronomy 4:2 You could say spiritual plagiarism in violation the first commandment

The word Jesus Christ must be rightly divided. Christ meaning the anointing teacher the Holy Spirit. apposed to the antichrist another teaching authority oral traditons of dying mankind . Christ the teaching authority .

Christ in Emanuel, God with us the hope of His glory

Jesus means savior just like Joshua . Christ working in the Son of man to both reveal his eternal will and empower him to do it to the unseen Holy Father .

You could say two kinds of saviors of the bride mutually working as one, empower by Christ the husband.

The Son of man Jesus as savior. Used to outwardly display the invisible power of the unseen Father, Jehovah as savior (Philippians 2:13 )

Will and do to. . . the good pleasure of one .

Two is the one witness God not seen has spoken . Will and do . "Let there be" and "it is" the law of faith
Won't you give a simple answer to a simple question?
 
Won't you give a simple answer to a simple question?

I would offer.

It simply needs to be defined . What does the word Christ mean? How is it used ? Does it have any thing to do with dying flesh and blood of mankind?

Compare it to antichrist (another kind) of teaching authority. Not sola scriptura

A good example of one of the many antichrists' false prophets, false apostles is used with Peter the serial denier Used as a warning not to follow after. a Pope calling dying mankind . Holy father.

Denying the loving commandment to call no man on earth Holy Father, Holy See etc God is not a Jewish man as King of kings hat the gola of satan the spirit of antichrists' (false prophets)

Satan the spirit of the antichrist working in a legion of antichrists' as false prophets, false apostles . Peter one of the legion

Mathew16: 22-23 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

Peter again was forgiven of his blasphemy against the son of man Jesus in whom Peter forbid from doing the will of the father.

That 33 year old window of opportunity closed when the Son of man jeau departed.

Today no forgiveness against Him not seen
 
Curious why you feel the need to ask me that.
Because you said it was a different gospel.
No, I do not believe anyone was saved with alter calls. Alter calls do not save as far as I'm concerned.
I am not implying that altar calls do save. What I mean is that a person can be saved during an altar call, but only if Christ and him crucified has been preached. In which case they would be answering the call that God gave. Not that the preacher gave.
Sounds like you're wrestling yourself with this.
No I am not.
Personally, I do not know exactly when I was saved. Actually, I don't think it is necessary, it may be nice to know, and perhaps some do know, but it is not necessary as far as I can tell.
Some do. I do. I am not the only one. But, no, it is not necessary. A lot of whether a person knows or not probably has to die with how sharp the contrast is between before and after. Mine was seven years in coming of my brother from the time he was converted, bugging me non stop. Nothing affected me. I didn't believe any of it. I wanted him to just shut up about it. And then---I believed it all, before I even knew what it was. I knew absolute truth was in that book they called the Bible. And I devoured it. I used to tell people I went to bed a Democrat and woke up a Republican. And that did not involve political systems so much as a world view. My whole liberal, hippie, new age, world view changed that sharply and that quickly. And it was internal.
Probably some new believers who really don't know about these things. But go ask more of our brothers and sisters who are Arminians and I think you will see that quite differently.
Maybe your experience is different from mine. They will never admit that choice is a work or that they are actually saving themselves in their theology, is what I have found. Never admit that choice of our own free will annuls grace. They wear blinders from beginning to end.
We have no fear of God.
Do you mean they have no fear of God. You and I certainly do. And they have no fear of God because they have made him into an image that suits him. A God who is benevolent towards all people. No anger, no wrath, no Almighty God to who we owe everything.
 
Please understand where my reasoning is. I believe it is impossible that the external call by itself, can produce any faith in the heart of the natural man. Anyone who preaches and teaches in a way as it is up to the decision of the person is teaching a different gospel.

I think, in talking about this, you have something very specific in mind, probably based on your experiences in your country, and I have something quite different, based on my own.

The gospel is Jesus, through His death and resurrection, is now Lord of all and we need to repent and turn to Him as our King. It has nothing to do with whether God changes a person's heart or they are solely responsible for their own decision - this is a deeper point of theology that does not need to concern a new believer. You and I both understand that any decision a person makes for Christ is because God has first enabled them to make such a decision.
 
I was not saying that regeneration and conversion were the same thing and I do not believe @Sereni-tea was either. I find in a great many of your posts you do that same thing.Post something as though someone had said something that they did not say. Neither did we say that regeneration comes by hearing---. God may do them simultaneously or he may do it some other way. People can be converted with very little knowledge,
Let me try this one more time, maybe the fault of you not understanding what I'm saying could be my fault, but I do not think so, I went back and reread my posts and others, and I'm convinced you are not following what I'm saying, no pun intended, just stating a fact as I see it. I always labor to make it as clear as I can.
I was not saying that regeneration and conversion were the same thing and I do not believe @Sereni-tea was either.
Dear Arial, you (and so is @Severi-tea) in this short paragraph do do not make that distinction between regeneration and conversion. You said:
People can be converted with very little knowledge, because it is a heart change that takes place.
Let me take time before moving on to show the clear distinction between the two.

Regeneration & Conversion Compared​



RegenerationConversion
A creative act of GodA revealed duty of man
An instantaneous actA gradual process, repeated event
God is sovereignMan is responsible
Without human meansBy many human means
Apart from the gospelBy means of the gospel
Gives life to sinnersBrings activity from life
Necessary for eternal lifeNeeded for fellowship with God
Man is entirely passiveMan is considerably active
Can reach even an infantCannot influence an infant
Can exist without conversionCannot exist without regeneration
Compared to conception & birthCompared to walking & growing
The condition for conversionThe evidence of regeneration
Origination of lifeManifestation of life
Irresistible by manResistible by man
Complete in each child of GodVariously partial in each man
No flesh can gloryThe flesh gets some credit
Guaranteed by graceMade possible by grace
Makes one a child of GodManifests one as a child of God
Involves creationInvolves conviction
Unconditional on man’s partConditional on man’s part
Apart from human consciousnessBased in human consciousness
Man cannot influence or directMan can labor to bring about
Cornelius before meeting PeterCornelius after meeting Peter
PerfectImperfect
These are just a few thoughts of the difference between the two. You said:
People can be converted with very little knowledge, because it is a heart change that takes place.
That's exactly what conversion is..... not what happens when one is born again. One can be born again without even knowing one thing about God, Jesus Christ, and the word of God~or, he could have some head knowledge about all three, yet that will not serve him in being born again.

Conversion is an increase of understanding and knowledge, that comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God after they have been born of God; the more one applies themselves, the more they become converted to the truth, but no man will ever be converted fully, because we live in a body of sin and death! It is the new man that is renew day by day growing in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ. The flesh hinders our conversion, if we allow it to happen.

Consider: Regeneration & Conversion - Abuoma
 
One other thing, let's not forget that the Gospel is not only the source of information but:
For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart. Hebrews 4:12
This verse is not speaking of the written word of God, but of Jesus Christ, the Living Word of God! Listen carefully:

Selah
 
This verse is not speaking of the written word of God, but of Jesus Christ, the Living Word of God! Listen carefully:


Selah
How do you separate Christ from the Word that reveals Him?
 
This verse is not speaking of the written word of God, but of Jesus Christ, the Living Word of God! Listen carefully:
The written word is the living word (sola scriptura) all things written in the law and prophets.

Can't separate the living word from the living word

Some that tried to add a new author "oral traditons of dying mankind"

Christ proved sola scriptura to be the one and only source of Christian faith as it is written

Acts 24:13-14 Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me. But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:
 
An invitation system presents the same lie. It's telling you, that you are not really dead, you have free will to choose God and life, it's your decision (decisional regeneration), you can choose life.


Thoughts?
No, it's telling you that being dead in trespasses and sins does not negate free will to choose God and life.
 
No, it's telling you that being dead in trespasses and sins does not negate free will to choose God and life.
The gospel, the will of God. . . our daily bread or called hidden manna.(Rev 2:17)

The kind of spiritual food needed for spiritual strength to both (the key) reveal his undestanding and empower the believer dead in trespasses and sin to do it to the good pleasure of the Father (Philippian 2:13-14)

Jesus the Son of man did it with delight. Others like Jonah murmured and kicked against the pricks (letter of law death) and wanted to die hoping God was a racist.

John 4:33-35King James Version33 Therefore said the disciples one to another, Hath any man brought him ought to eat? Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.

The will of the father. The hidden manna spoken of in Revelation 2:17.

It taste like the humbling honey of the gospel Teaches believers do not eat to much and end up vomiting false pride. .Just enough to brighten ones eyes as a spiritual vison to strengthen the inner man .


Exodus 16:30-32 King James Version30 So the people rested on the seventh day. And the house of Israel called the name thereof Manna: and it was like coriander seed, white; and the taste of it was like wafers made with honey.


1 Samuel 14:27 But Jonathan heard not when his father charged the people with the oath: wherefore he put forth the end of the rod that was in his hand, and dipped it in an honeycomb, and put his hand to his mouth; and his eyes were "enlightened."
 
How do you separate Christ from the Word that reveals Him?
Greetings Sereni-tea.

Without leaving the topic of this thread, I will say this:

The written word of God is a dead book to sinners unregenerate. Jesus Christ's voice to sinners is life given to those whom he calls out of sin and darkness, to live through him, in him, for him.
The word of God cannot give life to dead sinners, only the voice of the Son of God can impart life for he has eternal life in himself.

1st John 5:20​

“And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.”

The gospel of Jesus Christ is the power of God only to believers for their salvation concerning the truths of God, and from error, false prophets sent by the devil, guiding them into the paths of righteousness in order for them to have God's best for them while traveling through this world, unto the next.

Maybe an example might help: If you take two copies of the word of God and place them in a closet over night and when you go back and retrieve them, you will not find three copies of the scriptures, but two! The written God of God does not have life within themselves, they are only words concerning God's testimony of truths hidden from the wise and prudent revealed unto his little ones in the earth.

They do have power to quicken those few who have the life of God within..... freely given by grace. According to David's Psalms, the word of God can "quicken" his children, meaning it can revive, refresh, and give new life to believers, essentially acting as a source of spiritual renewal and strength; this concept is particularly highlighted in Psalm 119 a few times. Psalms 119:40; 88; 107; 149; 154; 156; 159; plus in other Psalms of David.
 
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I believe you are incorrect.

I agree an invitation is not of itself heresey,
Then I am not incorrect.
I didnt say or mean otherwise.
I did not say you did.
But to have people believe they have a choice and just need to come up and accept Jesus. :unsure:
If you believe different, if you support decisional regeneration, more power to ya.
I do not and I made it very clear no one can or will hear, understand, or respond to any "invitation" unless first chosen and called by God for that purpose salvifically, it is misleading to teach a person belief can save them, I would judge teaching the sinner he has free will much more harshly than Post 24 does.
I believe you are incorrect.
Okay. Prove my error to me.
Do I believe someone can go forward at a crusade and be saved? No, I do not.
That is quite evident in your posts.
If they walked away from the crusade saved, it was not from the going forward.
I completely agree. Salvation is not by works and salvation-by-going-forward would qualify as salvation by works.
 
Let me try this one more time, maybe the fault of you not understanding what I'm saying could be my fault, but I do not think so, I went back and reread my posts and others, and I'm convinced you are not following what I'm saying, no pun intended, just stating a fact as I see it. I always labor to make it as clear as I can.

Dear Arial, you (and so is @Severi-tea) in this short paragraph do do not make that distinction between regeneration and conversion. You said:

Let me take time before moving on to show the clear distinction between the two.

Regeneration & Conversion Compared​



RegenerationConversion
A creative act of GodA revealed duty of man
An instantaneous actA gradual process, repeated event
God is sovereignMan is responsible
Without human meansBy many human means
Apart from the gospelBy means of the gospel
Gives life to sinnersBrings activity from life
Necessary for eternal lifeNeeded for fellowship with God
Man is entirely passiveMan is considerably active
Can reach even an infantCannot influence an infant
Can exist without conversionCannot exist without regeneration
Compared to conception & birthCompared to walking & growing
The condition for conversionThe evidence of regeneration
Origination of lifeManifestation of life
Irresistible by manResistible by man
Complete in each child of GodVariously partial in each man
No flesh can gloryThe flesh gets some credit
Guaranteed by graceMade possible by grace
Makes one a child of GodManifests one as a child of God
Involves creationInvolves conviction
Unconditional on man’s partConditional on man’s part
Apart from human consciousnessBased in human consciousness
Man cannot influence or directMan can labor to bring about
Cornelius before meeting PeterCornelius after meeting Peter
PerfectImperfect
These are just a few thoughts of the difference between the two. You said:

That's exactly what conversion is..... not what happens when one is born again. One can be born again without even knowing one thing about God, Jesus Christ, and the word of God~or, he could have some head knowledge about all three, yet that will not serve him in being born again.

Conversion is an increase of understanding and knowledge, that comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God after they have been born of God; the more one applies themselves, the more they become converted to the truth, but no man will ever be converted fully, because we live in a body of sin and death! It is the new man that is renew day by day growing in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ. The flesh hinders our conversion, if we allow it to happen.

Consider: Regeneration & Conversion - Abuoma
As usual you have veered way off topic. And as long as you are going to redefine words from their biblical meaning and their usage in Christianity, there is no way of ever having a meeting of the minds or an honest linear conversation. It sounds like you are calling sanctification conversion. But who knows?
 
As usual you have veered way off topic. And as long as you are going to redefine words from their biblical meaning and their usage in Christianity, there is no way of ever having a meeting of the minds or an honest linear conversation. It sounds like you are calling sanctification conversion. But who knows?
Please consider the differences between conversion and regeneration~written by a friend of mine, who has been preaching for over 70 years. He's in his nineties coming to the end of his life, but still very much of a sound mind.

Regeneration and Conversion​

Regeneration and conversion are Bible words. Both words identify a spiritual work in the child of God. However, they do not refer to the same thing.

Regeneration​

Regeneration is wholly of God. It is the Holy Spirit’s quickening work whereby spiritual life is given to the sinner “by the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost” (Tit 3:5). The word comes from “re” meaning “again” and “generate” meaning “to beget.” Jesus identified this work of God as being “born again” (John 3:3). The Bible is emphatic that God “of his own will begat” us (Jam 1:18), even as Jesus claimed He “quickeneth whom He will” (John 5:21).

Eternal life, i.e., spiritual life, is God’s sovereign gift bestowed in regeneration. While invisible to men, this life is demonstrated by man’s response in conversion.

Note especially the absence in Scripture of even one command for a sinner to seek regeneration.

Conversion​

Conversion is the response of the regenerated child of God to his Heavenly Father’s will and commandments. The word means to “turn” or “turn about.” Thus it was foretold of John the Baptist’s ministry, “and many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God” (Lu 1:16). Those John turned are declared to be already related to “the Lord their God” but needed to turn about and obey Him.

Jesus describes the Apostle Peter’s denial and recovery by saying, “when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren” (Lu 22:32).

James explains the departure of a Christian brother from the truth can be corrected if another “converteth the sinner from the error of his way” (Jam 5:20).

Numerous exhortations and commandments are addressed to the saved, i.e., regenerated children of God, calling them from sin, error and ignorance to righteousness, truth and joyful assurance in fellowship with God (1 John 1:3, 7-9). A person’s conversion is usually in proportion to his understanding of and obedience to Bible truth.

Regeneration Contrasted with Conversion​

While regeneration is a once-for-all event, conversion will occur in steps depending upon one learning to follow God’s revealed will.

regeneration-conversion-flowchart.png


Unless one holds to the false theory of sinless perfection, every child of God will have some area(s) where he needs to experience conversion.

That is, there will be ideas, habits or personality traits that need to be changed and replaced by God’s perfect and revealed will.

Results Of Confusing Regeneration And Conversion​

Many teachers of religion confuse the words — regeneration and conversion — making both refer to being eternally saved or born again. Therefore, they put various conversion commands upon the unsaved.

This has resulted in the present popular theology of conditional or decisional regeneration. It is commonly preached that the sinner must do something or meet some condition before God can or will save him.

Conditions vary from one church or evangelist to another, but may include praying the sinner’s prayer, confessing faith in Jesus, making Jesus Lord, water baptism, joining the church, taking communion or other works of righteousness.

Conditional Regeneration Refuted​

The following Scriptures mark as error this teaching of requiring a sinner to meet some condition before God can save or regenerate him.

1. Salvation is “not of works” (Eph 2:9; Tit 3:5), which excludes faith since faith is a “work” (John 6:28-29), is “of the law” (Matt 23:23) and is keeping a “commandment” (1 John 3:23).

2. Faith, love of brethren and righteous deeds all result because one “is born of God” (1 John 5:1, 4; 4:7; 2:29), and thus cannot be the means or conditions required before God saves a person. These are evidences showing one already has eternal life (John 3:36; 5:24).

3. An unsaved man cannot receive spiritual things (1 Cor 2:14), cannot please God (Rom 8:7-8) and will not come to Christ (John 5:40). He must be given spiritual life first.

4. Men are eternally saved according to God’s will (Eph 1:4-5); John 3:8; 17:2; Rom 9:15), not according to man’s will (John 1:13; Rom 9:11, 16).

5. The gospel reveals the good news of salvation only to those who “are saved” (1 Cor 1:18, 24), thus bringing spiritual “life and immorality to light” as proof and assurance of God’s salvation (2 Tim 1:10; Acts 13:48).

God’s salvation is a “free gift” without any conditions (Rom 5:15-18; 6:23!).
 

Regeneration​

Regeneration is wholly of God. It is the Holy Spirit’s quickening work whereby spiritual life is given to the sinner “by the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost” (Tit 3:5). The word comes from “re” meaning “again” and “generate” meaning “to beget.” Jesus identified this work of God as being “born again” (John 3:3). The Bible is emphatic that God “of his own will begat” us (Jam 1:18), even as Jesus claimed He “quickeneth whom He will” (John 5:21).
I know what regeneration is. Why is it that you think I disagree with the above? Or that I don't know what it is?
Eternal life, i.e., spiritual life, is God’s sovereign gift bestowed in regeneration. While invisible to men, this life is demonstrated by man’s response in conversion.
It is both spiritual life and physical life. We will still die if Jesus does not return before God calls us home. But in the resurrection, it is a resurrection of our physical bodies that have been changed from mortal (able to die) to immortal (unable to die.) From corrupted and corruptable, to no longer corrupted and unable to be corrupted. The rest I agree with.

Conversion​

Conversion is the response of the regenerated child of God to his Heavenly Father’s will and commandments. The word means to “turn” or “turn about.” Thus it was foretold of John the Baptist’s ministry, “and many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God” (Lu 1:16). Those John turned are declared to be already related to “the Lord their God” but needed to turn about and obey Him.
Jesus describes the Apostle Peter’s denial and recovery by saying, “when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren” (Lu 22:32).

Yes it is turning to the Lord and being placed in Christ as his people.
Luke 22:32
NIV But I have prayed for you, Simon, that your faith may not fail. And when you have turned back, strengthen your brothers.
ESV but I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail. And when you have turned again, strengthen your brothers.
NKJV But I have prayed for you that your faith should not fail; and when you have returned to Me, strengthen your brethren.


Of all the translations I looked at, only the KJV translates the idea being given as converted. Many a person has arrived at false teaching simply from some misguided loyalty to the KJV. It has caused you and your friend to have a whole wrong idea of what conversion really is.
James explains the departure of a Christian brother from the truth can be corrected if another “converteth the sinner from the error of his way” (Jam 5:20).
KJV Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a sould from death, and she'll hide a multitude of sins.
NIV remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of their way will save them from death and cover over a multitude of sins.
ESV let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from his wandering will save his sould from death and will cover a multitude of sins.


James is writing to believers----those who have been converted to Christ. Let's use the whole sentence and find out what he is talking about. 19 My brothers, if anyone among you wanders from the truth and someone brings him back, let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from his wandering will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.

You need to at least check other translations. The above passage is speaking of bringing back a brother who has fallen into sin. It is not talking about being converted to Christ.
Numerous exhortations and commandments are addressed to the saved, i.e., regenerated children of God, calling them from sin, error and ignorance to righteousness, truth and joyful assurance in fellowship with God (1 John 1:3, 7-9). A person’s conversion is usually in proportion to his understanding of and obedience to Bible truth.
That is not conversion. It is sanctification by the Holy Spirit through the word. Sanctification is the ongoing work of the Holy Spirit in us as we learn and grow. Conversion means coming to Christ in trust and faith. Conversion produces the fruits of conversion. Christ the Vine, believers the branches that bear the fruit.
 
Unless one holds to the false theory of sinless perfection, every child of God will have some area(s) where he needs to experience conversion.

That is, there will be ideas, habits or personality traits that need to be changed and replaced by God’s perfect and revealed will.
There is no such thing as partial conversion. It is not something we are given abilities to do from having been regenerated and full conversion then depending on our works.

It is sanctification that is being called conversion by you and your friend. And you are both wrong. And if you really believe that sanctification is a conversion process, rather than a result of the conversion, you have salvation by works and no security. You have eternal life given but also possibly lost. Therefore never eternal in the first place.
Many teachers of religion confuse the words — regeneration and conversion — making both refer to being eternally saved or born again. Therefore, they put various conversion commands upon the unsaved.
Why are we talking about "many teachers of religion"? You have confused conversion and sanctification. I have confused nothing. A person who has been born again will come to Christ in faith. He will be brought there by God himself, so it is a guarantee. It will be done however God does it for his purposes. But coming to Christ is to believe and trust in his person and work. Christ alone, through faith alone, by grace alone.
This has resulted in the present popular theology of conditional or decisional regeneration. It is commonly preached that the sinner must do something or meet some condition before God can or will save him.
That is not what caused that problem, and that is not actually the problem. The problem is saying that faith causes the new birth.

Everything that follows in your post, has completely gone off, not only the topic of the OP, but the author's own opening topic.
 
Greetings Sereni-tea.

Without leaving the topic of this thread, I will say this:

The written word of God is a dead book to sinners unregenerate. Jesus Christ's voice to sinners is life given to those whom he calls out of sin and darkness, to live through him, in him, for him.

The word of God cannot give life to dead sinners, only the voice of the Son of God can impart life for he has eternal life in himself.

1st John 5:20​

“And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.”

The gospel of Jesus Christ is the power of God only to believers for their salvation concerning the truths of God, and from error, false prophets sent by the devil, guiding them into the paths of righteousness in order for them to have God's best for them while traveling through this world, unto the next.

Maybe an example might help: If you take two copies of the word of God and place them in a closet over night and when you go back and retrieve them, you will not find three copies of the scriptures, but two! The written God of God does not have life within themselves, they are only words concerning God's testimony of truths hidden from the wise and prudent revealed unto his little ones in the earth.

They do have power to quicken those few who have the life of God within..... freely given by grace. According to David's Psalms, the word of God can "quicken" his children, meaning it can revive, refresh, and give new life to believers, essentially acting as a source of spiritual renewal and strength; this concept is particularly highlighted in Psalm 119 a few times. Psalms 119:40; 88; 107; 149; 154; 156; 159; plus in other Psalms of David.
I disagree with you on many points here, but it would be getting off topic to pursue this conversation.
 
Then I am not incorrect.

I did not say you did.

I do not and I made it very clear no one can or will hear, understand, or respond to any "invitation" unless first chosen and called by God for that purpose salvifically, it is misleading to teach a person belief can save them, I would judge teaching the sinner he has free will much more harshly than Post 24 does.

Okay. Prove my error to me.

That is quite evident in your posts.

I completely agree. Salvation is not by works and salvation-by-going-forward would qualify as salvation by works.
No issue. We agree ;)
I'm probably debating nothing. I tend to do things like that some times. Sorry.
 
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