Decisional Regeneration vs. Divine Regeneration

[CrowCross]

The false Calvin doctrine on election is not splitting hairs on terminology.

Can a "Calvinist be saved and keep the TULIP view?

 

[CrowCross]

Is the planet just 6,000 years old, as many Christians believe? I don’t think so.

Lu

Why not?

 

[Carbon]

Why not?

I can ask you, why do you disagree?

 

[CrowCross]

Let’s seriously consider 2 Peter 3.
For this they willfully forget: that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of water and in the water, by which the world that then existed perished,

This is about the flood of Noah.

 

[CrowCross]

I can ask you, why do you disagree?

Scripture...science.

 

[Carbon]

Scripture...science.

I can give that same answer for an old earth.

 

[CrowCross]

I can give that same answer for an old earth.

Then do so. I say you can't.

 

[Carbon]

I can give that same answer for an old earth.

@CrowCross But this is not the right thread to discuss this.

 

[Carbon]

Then do so. I say you can't.

Okay.

Scripture...science.

 

[CrowCross]

@CrowCross But this is not the right thread to discuss this.

Then start one if you feel the need.

 

[Carbon]

Then start one if you feel the need.

I don't feel the need.

 

[CrowCross]

Okay.

Scripture...science.

You are the guys making your claim...so, present scripture and science. I didn't bring the topic up.

 

[Carbon]

You are the guys making your claim...so, present scripture and science. I didn't bring the topic up.

Start a thread on it, if you feel the need.

 

[ShepherdsPie]

In 2 Peter 3, is Peter telling us about three heaven and earth ages?

Scripture...science.

Which scripture, please?

 

[Carbon]

In 2 Peter 3, is Peter telling us about three heaven and earth ages?

Which scripture, please?

He is going to give the scriptures in Genesis for an Old Earth creation.

 

[ShepherdsPie]

You are the guys making your claim...so, present scripture and science. I didn't bring the topic up.

It’s part of this thread’s topic in as much as election by God was done before the foundation of the world.

 

[Red Baker]

In all those fifty years of teaching, preaching, and debating, you have never figured out what Paul meant when he rejected works as a basis for salvation. You have always missed the mark about works, claiming works means anything we do. But that simply cannot be.

Jim, in all of my years, I have not seen where man has any part of his salvation from sin and condemnation. I have debated some of the best among the Armenian camp~only wish I could get to others, yet they have a so-called security team around them to keep from others truly testing them, or even questioning them concerning their doctrine ~ they have well protected themselves from being exposed for what they are~men transforming themselves as an angel of light, whose end shall be according to their works.

The works he rejected as a basis for salvation was works of law.

Jim, do you truly think that God's children are that ignorant? Jim, there are no other works of law, but deeds performed by man in hope of a reward for their righteous deeds, or deeds that they themselves consider righteous, and that should be accepted, and rewarded accordingly.

Do you not hear the true meaning of what is a law? Any phrase/saying/commandment that said: "This DO and live, sin, and die" Is a work of a law. If it is performed by man apart from it being a free gift given, then it is a work of the law, whatever that law may be, whatever package it is presented, it is a work of a law. A law that rewards the doer, and punish the offender.

We do many things that are not works of law. We eat, we drink, we walk we talk, we see, we think and none of those things are works of law.

I agree and even said so in one of my post above, please read it again.

Jesus said believing in God is a work (John 6:29). Clearly, the work of believing, like eating and drinking, is not a work of Law.

Jesus did say that faith is a work/commandment. 1st John 3:23~but it is you (not God's word) that makes believing equal to eating, sleeping etc. One comes natural to all men, the other is spiritual, and only given to some men/women, per word of God. John 6:65; 10:26,27; etc.

Believing is, according to Jesus, is a work that does not exclude grace.

Jim, there you go again, making a statement that is said by you to make room for your false teaching. Of course, faith is a work that does not exclude grace, the reason being is without the grace of God giving us the power to believe, none would. All godly fruits follow from those men and women to whom the grace of God is given to.

Believing in God, i.e, faith, is the fundamental basis upon which God saves.

You like most others use the word save/saved/salvation in only one sense, and by doing so, allows you to make statement like this, which has some truth to it, but it is only half true, and then if used properly, which you are not doing.

God does save his people from many pitfalls and false doctrines and from the devil's temptations, where we live by faith, this is true in a practical sense., only~but is a legal sense from sin and condemnation we are saved by the obedience and faith of the Son of God! Romans 3:22-25; Galatians 2:16; and Philippians 3:9, etc.

I can do that if you need it. But I don't think you do.

Provide what you ahve, give it your best effort, you still will be found wanting.

Given that believing in God, i.e., faith, is not a work of law, your entire argument is moot. It doesn't work, pun intended.

It is not a given...... for faith is the work of God's law and a commandment given to us. 1st John 3:23 But only those men, who have been made a new creature in Jesus Christ, delights in the law of God, and seek to do its commandments, even though sin is mixed in all we do, which grieves our hearts, but it also makes us to thank God for Jesus Christ for the victory he secured for us by his perfect obedience as our surety before God's law.

Romans 7; 24,25~"O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Jim, I went fast with this post, so forgive my errors.... I'm leaving to go out of town in a few, be back late Tuesday before I can answer any post.

 

[JIM]

Jim, in all of my years, I have not seen where man has any part of his salvation from sin and condemnation.

That is because of your misunderstanding of what it means to believe in God. You think that believing in God is something that God does for you or to you. If you really understood how one comes to believe in God, then you would realize and understand that believing in God is something that you do. Coming to the point where you believe in God is not really any different from coming to the point where you believe in anything. Instead, you think falsely that unlike believing in anything else, believing in God is implanted into you.

Jim, do you truly think that God's children are that ignorant? Jim, there are no other works of law, but deeds performed by man in hope of a reward for their righteous deeds, or deeds that they themselves consider righteous, and that should be accepted, and rewarded accordingly.Do you not hear the true meaning of what is a law? Any phrase/saying/commandment that said: "This DO and live, sin, and die" Is a work of a law. If it is performed by man apart from it being a free gift given, then it is a work of the law, whatever that law may be, whatever package it is presented, it is a work of a law. A law that rewards the doer, and punish the offender.

I think you do not really understand why one is not saved by works of law. That is partly because of your belief in the false doctrine of Original Sin and the even worse false doctrine of Total Depravity.

If a person lived his entire life and obeyed God perfectly in absolutely everything and never even once disobeyed God, then he would be "saved by the law". And that simply because he had actually earned eternal life by his perfect obedience. That, while strictly possible, has not and will not ever happen. Paul wasn't lying when he said, "For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified" (Rom 2:13). Unfortunately, as James pointed out, "For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all (2:10).

Thus, it is not that there is no salvation in the law, but rather that no one, not a single person, is a doer of the law. And there is no single phrase/saying /commandment, other than absolute and complete obedience to God, that said: "This DO and live, sin, and die". None of that precludes there being conditions set forth by God for being forgiven for not keeping the law perfectly.

I agree and even said so in one of my post above, please read it again.

Jesus did say that faith is a work/commandment. 1st John 3:23~but it is you (not God's word) that makes believing equal to eating, sleeping etc. One comes natural to all men, the other is spiritual, and only given to some men/women, per word of God. John 6:65; 10:26,27; etc.

That is only because as I indicated above, you have conjured a completely new definition for believing in God. But, of course, once you impose total depravity as a condition of mankind, then the actual definition and the real meaning of believing in God no longer fits. In your theology, believing in God must be some weird implant in the brain totally unrelated to any rational an logical argument. It makes God's word, the Bible, completely superfluous. And yet is only in the Bible that God reveals Himself to mankind.

You like most others use the word save/saved/salvation in only one sense, and by doing so, allows you to make statement like this, which has some truth to it, but it is only half true, and then if used properly, which you are not doing.

I am not going to get pulled into your really odd view of the 37, or whatever number, difference "senses" of salvation. That is only one more "adjustment" you make to God's word in order to make it fit with your deviant theology.

God does save his people from many pitfalls and false doctrines and from the devil's temptations, where we live by faith, this is true in a practical sense., only~but is a legal sense from sin and condemnation we are saved by the obedience and faith of the Son of God! Romans 3:22-25; Galatians 2:16; and Philippians 3:9, etc.

Again pushing for the improper translation/interpretation of the KJV in the phrase "faith of Jesus" in Romans 3:22, Galatians 2:16 and Philippians 3:9. It is the same silly improper translation/interpretation of the KJV in the phrase "faith of God" in Romans 3:3. Neither God nor Jesus have any need for "believing in something" in the sense of Hebrews 11:1 for the definition of faith.

Finally, I hope your out-of-town travels are for enjoyment and pleasure. Be safe and return to us.