Baptism beliefs

[Carbon]

Baptism beliefs

 

[Sereni-tea]

I believe children are just as much part of God's family as adults and should be brought up as such.
Baptism is a sign of the new covenant, just like circumcision was in the old covenant. And just like infants were circumcised in the OT, so I believe it is right to baptise children of believing parents.

We are told in the NT:

“Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself.” - Acts 2:38-39

In my denomination (Anglican) we have a practice of confirmation where those who were baptised as infants/children and have now come of age (usually around 16 years old or so) will (if they choose to do so) publicly confess their faith and take upon themselves the baptismal promises made by their parents and godparents on their behalf.

 

[Carbon]

I believe children are just as much part of God's family as adults and should be brought up as such.
Baptism is a sign of the new covenant, just like circumcision was in the old covenant. And just like infants were circumcised in the OT, so I believe it is right to baptise children of believing parents.

Amen sister!

We are told in the NT:

“Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself.” - Acts 2:38-39

In my denomination (Anglican) we have a practice of confirmation where those who were baptised as infants/children and have now come of age (usually around 16 years old or so) will (if they choose to do so) publicly confess their faith and take upon themselves the baptismal promises made by their parents and godparents on their behalf.

What else can I say but, Amen.

 

[Carbon]

@Papa Smurf @CCShorts @Reformedguy @SovereignGrace @ReverendRV @Reformedguy @Eleanor @Arial and anyone else I missed.

 

[Carbon]

Oh, I remember one more. That guy hhhmmm wait a minute it’s coming to me...... oh yea @preacher4truth

 

[Eleanor]

It seems they baptized children in the NT Scriptures.

Circumcision placed you in the people of God. It did not save you. Only faith in the promise (Ge 15:5, seed; Christ, Gal 3:16) saved, but it gave you the benefits of God's people; i.e., provision.

Likewise, baptism is the NC parallel sign of the OC circumcision (Col 2:11-12).

So I am in favor of baptism of infants as a sign of being in the people of God.
Keeping in mind that we have both wheat and tares in the people of God.

 

[Carbon]

It seems they baptized children in the NT Scriptures.

Circumcision placed you in the people of God. It did not save you. Only faith in the promise (Ge 15:5, seed; Christ, Gal 3:16) saved, but it gave you the benefits of God's people; i.e., provision.

Likewise, baptism is the NC parallel sign of the OC circumcision (Col 2:11-12).

So I am in favor of baptism of infants as a sign of being in the people of God.
Keeping in mind that we have both wheat and tares in the people of God.

Amen

 

[Reformedguy]

@Papa Smurf @CCShorts @Reformedguy @SovereignGrace @ReverendRV @Reformedguy @Eleanor @Arial and anyone else I missed.

I remember Papasmurf. That's going back awhile.

 

[Jude24]

Children are a part of the visible church and the covenant community, and, thus, should be baptized.

It took me awhile to get to this point since there’s no direct command to baptize infants, but I now see that it’s the logical conclusion to covenant theology and what the overall doctrine of the scriptures teach.

As I’ve read before (can’t seem to find the source or direct quote-I think it’s from Matthew McMahon on puritan board), infant baptism is the the last 5 minutes of a long discussion on the overall doctrine of covenant theology.

 

[Fred]

I think the case with the Gentiles which uses the expression, "you and your household" demonstrates babies were not included.

If one were to go step by step with this....

1. Reference is made to the household.
Acts 11:13-14
(13) And he reported to us how he had seen the angel standing in his house, and saying, ‘Send to Joppa and have Simon, who is also called Peter, brought here;
(14) and he shall speak words to you by which you will be saved, you and your household.'

2. Only those who have received the Holy Spirit of this household were water baptized.
Acts 10:47-48
(47) Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?
(48) And he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay on for a few days.

3. In order for the Holy Spirit to be received by those of this household one had to:
(a) hear the gospel
(b) believe (the gospel)
Acts 15:7-8
(7) After there had been much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, Brethren, you know that in the early days God made a choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles would hear the word of the gospel and believe.
(8) And God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us.

Infants are incapable of hearing the gospel in order to believe.
Therefore, infants are not included of the household that was water baptized.

 

[Eleanor]

I think the case with the Gentiles which uses the expression, "you and your household" demonstrates babies were not included.

If one were to go step by step with this....

1. Reference is made to the household.
Acts 11:13-14
(13) And he reported to us how he had seen the angel standing in his house, and saying, ‘Send to Joppa and have Simon, who is also called Peter, brought here;
(14) and he shall speak words to you by which you will be saved, you and your household.'

2. Only those who have received the Holy Spirit of this household were water baptized.
Acts 10:47-48
(47) Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?
(48) And he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay on for a few days.

3. In order for the Holy Spirit to be received by those of this household one had to:
(a) hear the gospel
(b) believe (the gospel)
Acts 15:7-8
(7) After there had been much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, Brethren, you know that in the early days God made a choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles would hear the word of the gospel and believe.
(8) And God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us.

Infants are incapable of hearing the gospel in order to believe.
Therefore, infants are not included of the household that was water baptized.

Well, we have baptism as the NC parallel sign of the OC circumcision (Col 2:11-12).
And infants were circumcised in the OC.
Does church history show baptism of infants in the early church?

 

[Fred]

Well, we have baptism as the NC parallel sign of the OC circumcision (Col 2:11-12).
And infants were circumcised in the OC.
Does church history show baptism of infants in the early church?

It goes against what is taught from the Book of Acts.
Thus, it is not a parallel sign.
Females were no circumcised in the OC. That leaves out more or less half the population.

 

[Fred]

Baptism beliefs

I think in the poll it should read: Baptismal Regeneration

 

[ChristB4us]

I believe children are just as much part of God's family as adults and should be brought up as such.
Baptism is a sign of the new covenant, just like circumcision was in the old covenant. And just like infants were circumcised in the OT, so I believe it is right to baptise children of believing parents.

We are told in the NT:

“Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself.” - Acts 2:38-39

In my denomination (Anglican) we have a practice of confirmation where those who were baptised as infants/children and have now come of age (usually around 16 years old or so) will (if they choose to do so) publicly confess their faith and take upon themselves the baptismal promises made by their parents and godparents on their behalf.

@Carbon & @Eleanor & @Fred & @Jude24 & @Reformedguy

What is water baptism in Jesus's name for?

Is it for remission of sins? If not, how does one receive the remission of sins?

Is it for getting the promise of the Holy Ghost? If not, how does one receive the promise of the Holy Spirit?

Maybe this same Peter gives us a clue to how he had preached to the Gentiles.

Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. 44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, 47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

There is only one gospel and since the Gentiles heard the word, believed in Him for the remission of sins and had received the Holy Ghost before water baptism, ...

What does water baptism serves towards?

There are three kinds of disciples back in Jesus's days.

Luke 5:33 And they said unto him, Why do the disciples of John fast often, and make prayers, and likewise the disciples of the Pharisees; but thine eat and drink?

So when Paul came across certain disciples, meaning he came across some people that he was certain they were disciples, but he did not know what kind. He made the assumption that they were believers of Jesus Christ and therefore His disciples for why he had asked the way that he had done, but they did not know anything about the Holy Ghost. So Paul asked what water baptism they were under. John the Baptist's. So Paul proceeded to tell them about Jesus Christ being the One that john the Baptist was prophesying about; then they believed and got water baptized in Jesus's name in becoming disciples of Jesus Christ.

Acts 19:1-7

Infant baptism does not do anything for the infant but it is a public display by the parents that they intend to raise their child up in the Lord. It is not an ordinance taught by any epistle and just getting an infant water baptism does not mean the parents work is done as they leave the children to be taught & this raised in & by the church. The parents should be doing it also at home like a family Bible reading time together & to inform & remind them to come to them about any questions about what the Lord would want them to do in a given situation but to remind them that Jesus is their Good shepherd & friend to help them to follow him as he is in them and with them always.

Would you believe some parents will not tell their little children the good news yet because they are too young to understand? I reckon they think Christianity is a religion rather than a reconciled relationship with God the father thru Jesus Christ.

Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. 26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. 27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

People claim they can remember being in their mother's womb. I can remember being held as a baby and what people had said.

So there is no excuse in not telling a baby the Good News since it is on God to cause the increase anyway by revealing His Son to even the babes.

 

[Eleanor]

It goes against what is taught from the Book of Acts.
Thus, it is not a parallel sign.

What does Col 2:11-12 teach?

Females were no circumcised in the OC. That leaves out more or less half the population.

Good point.

Because under the OC, females came under the jurisdiction of their father in all things covenantal.
In the NC, females are not under the jurisdiction of their fathers, every tub sits on its own bottom.
They must have their own baptism to be counted in the NT people of God, their father's is not applicable to them.

And then we have Scripture in Col 2:11-12 to overcome,
likewise with Ignatius (AD 30-107) testifying to infant baptism in the church.

In light of Col 2:11-12, it appears the record in the book of Acts is not the whole record, but is in regard to adults only.

 

[Eleanor]

@Carbon & @Eleanor & @Fred & @Jude24 & @Reformedguy

What is water baptism in Jesus's name for?

1) Is not water baptism in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit (Mt 28:19); i.e. the Trinity?

All three operate in salvation, the Father ordaining the plan, the Son executing the plan, and the Holy Spirit applying the benefits of the plan.

That baptia was Jesus' command regarding the disciples that were to be made from all nations.

2) It's the same baptism, it places you in the people of God, receiving God's earthly provision for the people of God.
Again, remembering that we have both wheat and tares in the people of God.

Is it for remission of sins? If not, how does one receive the remission of sins?

Remission (removal) of sin is remission of sin's punishment, because the penalty of the law for it has been paid, and that debt is no longer owed, it is cancelled.

The penalty of sin was paid in Christ's atonement on the cross, thereby remitting the punishment.
That payment made by Christ must now be applied to each individual by their faith in himself and his atoning work (Ro 3:25).

Is it for getting the promise of the Holy Ghost? If not, how does one receive the promise of the Holy Spirit?

The promise of the Holy Spirit is of the indwelling Holy Spirit in the new covenant.
He is received in the new birth, which is a sovereign act of the Holy Spirit, as unaccountable as the wind (Jn 3:3-8), based on nothing but God's sovereign choice to do so.

Maybe this same Peter gives us a clue to how he had preached to the Gentiles.

Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. 44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, 47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

There is only one gospel and since the Gentiles heard the word, believed in Him for the remission of sins and had received the Holy Ghost before water baptism, ...

What does water baptism serves towards?

It serves to place you in the people of God, and in adults is a sign of your dying to sin as Christ died for sin (Ro 6:1-6).

 

[Fred]

What does Col 2:11-12 teach?

The baptism with the Holy Spirit.

In light of Col 2:11-12, it appears the record in the book of Acts is not the whole record, but is in regard to adults only.

In which infants are not supposed to be water baptized.

 

[Eleanor]

The baptism with the Holy Spirit.

Would you please show how that could refer to baptism of the Holy Spirit, which is a special manifestation of the Holy Spirit as confirmation of the gospel.

In which infants are not supposed to be water baptized.

Baptism of the Holy Spirit and water baptism are two different things,
water being a placement in the people of God,
Holy Spirit being a special manifestation of the Holy Spirit as confirmation of the gospel.

 

[Fred]

Would you please show how that could refer to baptism of the Holy Spirit, which is a special manifestation of the Holy Spirit as confirmation of the gospel.

Colossians 2:11-12
(11) and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ;
(12) having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.

All who have undergone this baptism have been circumcised. Reference is to the spiritual aspect of each. There is an allusion to literal circumcision as well as to literal water baptism, but not a reference to them.

The circumcision Paul speaks of "is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit" - the baptism with the Holy Spirit.
Romans 2:29
But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.

Since Cornelius and the other Gentiles with him were already given the Holy Spirit (Acts 10:44-45) means they were worshiping in the Spirit.
Acts 10:46
For they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God.
Thus, before their water baptism they were already members of the circumcision (i.e., Christians).
Philippians 3:3
for we are the true circumcision, who worship in the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh.

Baptism of the Holy Spirit and water baptism are two different things.

Agree.

 

[ChristB4us]

1) Is not water baptism in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit (Mt 28:19); i.e. the Trinity?

The "name of" which is singular thus the name of Jesus Christ, is the God we call on to be saved. According to the Book of Acts, when put into practice, they water baptized in Jesus's name, signifying the disciples of Jesus Christ.

All three operate in salvation, the Father ordaining the plan, the Son executing the plan, and the Holy Spirit applying the benefits of the plan.

Yet the Holy Spirit gives that credit & glory to Jesus Christ, the Son of God per John 16:13-15 as all the fruits of righteousness are thereby Jesus Christ per Philippians 1:11.

That baptia was Jesus' command regarding the disciples that were to be made from all nations.

Yes, signifying the disciples of Jesus Christ in public display from the disciples of John the Baptist's and from the disciples of the Pharisees.

2) It's the same baptism, it places you in the people of God, receiving God's earthly provision for the people of God.
Again, remembering that we have both wheat and tares in the people of God.

Right for how there are vessels unto honor in His House, vessels of gold & silver, that looked to Him for help in discerning and for departing from iniquity and the vessels unto dishonor, vessels of wood & earth, that did not look to Him for help but just followed the church & did not depart from iniquity before the Bridegroom had come per 2 timothy 2:18-21 as they will get left behind, and die, but their spirits will be with the Lord in Heaven to await for their resurrection after the great tribulation. Same with the great and those called the least below.

Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Remission (removal) of sin is remission of sin's punishment, because the penalty of the law for it has been paid, and that debt is no longer owed, it is cancelled.

The penalty of sin was paid in Christ's atonement on the cross, thereby remitting the punishment.
That payment made by Christ must now be applied to each individual by their faith in himself and his atoning work (Ro 3:25).

That is why those resurrected after the great tribulation, the power of the second death will not be over them but thus indicating the power of the first death still can for why they need to eat from the tree of life when that City of God comes down to earth..

The promise of the Holy Spirit is of the indwelling Holy Spirit in the new covenant.
He is received in the new birth, which is a sovereign act of the Holy Spirit, as unaccountable as the wind (Jn 3:3-8), based on nothing but God's sovereign choice to do so.

It serves to place you in the people of God, and in adults is a sign of your dying to sin as Christ died for sin (Ro 6:1-6).

Unfortunately many will go astray in these latter days where faith is hard to find which is probably why the times of the Gentiles will end at the pre great tribulation rapture event and God chooses the 144,000 witnesses that were formerly Jews to serve Him for the duration of the great tribulation after the rapture event. Nevertheless Jesus Christ will finish His work even in those left behind as they are still His sheep. Like Esau, the prodigal son may have given up his first inheritance for wild living, and can never get it back, but he will find that he is still son.