Are you Arminian, Calvinist, or other?

[ReverendRV]

I know this is off-topic, but what IS that profile picture of yours?

Saint Choice Meats...

 

[David1701]

The Heterodoxy of Leighton Flowers

Updated December 10, 2022 Leighton Flowers sharply departs in significant ways from the Protestant tradition. He teaches that: 1. The Fall weakened, but did not fundamentally wreck—not even in prin…

aaronshaf.wordpress.com

Recognize the face?

I didn't know what LCF looked like, but there is a resemblance...

 

[David1701]

Saint Choice Meats...

I'm sorry but the reference escapes me.

 

[Eleanor]

The Heterodoxy of Leighton Flowers

Updated December 10, 2022 Leighton Flowers sharply departs in significant ways from the Protestant tradition. He teaches that: 1. The Fall weakened, but did not fundamentally wreck—not even in prin…

aaronshaf.wordpress.com

Recognize the face?

Really?

 

[Deleted member 5]

The Heterodoxy of Leighton Flowers

Updated December 10, 2022 Leighton Flowers sharply departs in significant ways from the Protestant tradition. He teaches that: 1. The Fall weakened, but did not fundamentally wreck—not even in prin…

aaronshaf.wordpress.com

Recognize the face?

I cannot take him seriously.

 

[David1701]

As a "High Calvinist" I point to "Jolt Cola" in my defense.

Okay, it just struck me. Jolt Cola must refer to an American brand of Coke and you're using a play on the word "High". My mind was in "Christian" mode (as it should be), so I wasn't expecting the kind of joke that I might hear at work...

 

[Carbon]

Okay, it just struck me. Jolt Cola must refer to an American brand of Coke and you're using a play on the word "High". My mind was in "Christian" mode (as it should be), so I wasn't expecting the kind of joke that I might hear at work...

Not to worry, he can't get any anyway, the company went bankrupt.

 

[Eleanor]

Amen...

Is God's word in Scripture your only authority for doctrine?
Must a doctrine be presented in Scripture to be God's truth?
Are God's people to believe doctrine that God does not present in Scripture?

Christ's Edenic Covenant covers All Humanity...

The Golgatha Purchase ~ by ReverendRV * October 27

Where do we find an Edenic Covenant in Scripture?
Where do we find Christ's Edenic Covenant in Scripture?
Where do we find after creation any covenant with Christ in Scripture?

2nd Peter 2:1 KJV; But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

This is about heretics who were professing Christians, who in their heresy were actually denying the Lord they claimed to believe in; i.e., "the Lord who bought them."
It's not a statement of Jesus purchasing heretics.

I’ve recently been debating with an Atheist who uses Slavery as a reason to NOT believe in the God of the Bible. I told him about the Voluntary Servitude the Bible endorses, but he insists on debating about God endorsing Involuntary Servitude;citing Leviticus 25.
I said, “I see what you are saying; you're drawing a distinction between the acceptable Servitude of a Jew to a Jew, and the unacceptable Slavery of Gentiles to a Jew.

God likewise ordained the slavery of Israel's captives in a just war (of defense) - Dt 20:10-11, 21:10-11, Nu 31:17-19, 25-28, 30, 46-47.

 

[Carbon]

Is God's word in Scripture your only authority for doctrine?
Must a doctrine be presented in Scripture to be God's truth?
Are God's people to believe doctrine that God does not present in Scripture?

Where do we find an Edenic Covenant in Scripture?
Where do we find Christ's Edenic Covenant in Scripture?

This is about heretics who were professing Christians, who in their heresy were actually denying the Lord they claimed to believe in; i.e., "the Lord who bought them."
It's not a statement of Jesus purchasing heretics.

God likeise ordained the slavery of Israel's captives in a just war (of defense) - Dt 20:10-11, 21:10-11, Nu 31:17-19, 25-28, 30, 46-47.

Amen

 

[ReverendRV]

Is God's word in Scripture your only authority for doctrine?
Must a doctrine be presented in Scripture to be God's truth?
Are God's people to believe doctrine that God does not present in Scripture?

Where do we find an Edenic Covenant in Scripture?
Where do we find Christ's Edenic Covenant in Scripture?

This is about heretics who were professing Christians, who in their heresy were actually denying the Lord they claimed to believe in; i.e., "the Lord who bought them."
It's not a statement of Jesus purchasing heretics.

God likeise ordained the slavery of Israel's captives in a just war (of defense) - Dt 20:10-11, 21:10-11, Nu 31:17-19, 25-28, 30, 46-47.

Good morning Elanor. I think I'll slow down on the Topic today; I'm enjoying the Clubhouse App right now. I'm a 5-Point Calvinist. I hold to the 5-Solas; I love Sola Scriptura. I do believe that Scripture is not the only Authority of God, so I reject "Solo" Scriptura. Nature is a Revelation of God too, but it's not Special Revelation; it's General Revelation instead. But Nature is enough General Revelation to not leave Mankind with an excuse for not believing in God. The Spiritual Gift of Teaching exists, so we should expect to be taught Sound Doctrine and a True Systematic Theology...

A true Systematic Theology SHOULD include Covenant Theology; teaching the Universal, Unconditional Consequences of the Edenic Covenant. Jesus is one of the Federal Heads of the Edenic Covenant, and he Kept that Covenant for Everyone; just as Adam Broke that Covenant for Everyone. Everyone is affected by Christ's Edenic Covenant, just like Everyone was affected by Adam's Edenic Covenant. How is everyone affected by Christ's Edenic Covenant? By having a legal opportunity to be Saved by the New Covenant...

Reprobates will never be Saved though. In the Parable of the Sower, the birds carried the Seed away from the Trodden Ground. I say the Trodden Ground is the heart of the Reprobate where nothing grows. But Jesus said if the Gospel Seed is not carried away by the devil, the Trodden Ground may turn and Believe. Why? Not because of the power of the Reprobate; but because the Gospel is the Power of God unto Salvation. God has to thwart the Sowing of the Gospel, to remove the possibility the Reprobate will be Saved. Arminians ask, "Why does God Harden hearts if we can't Believe anyway?". The reason why is because the Gospel is Dynamite, and will blast our Stoney hearts; if it were not carried away...

The reason All have the opportunity to be Saved, is because of the Kept Edenic Covenant of Jesus Christ...

 

[ReverendRV]

Is God's word in Scripture your only authority for doctrine?
Must a doctrine be presented in Scripture to be God's truth?
Are God's people to believe doctrine that God does not present in Scripture?

Where do we find an Edenic Covenant in Scripture?
Where do we find Christ's Edenic Covenant in Scripture?

This is about heretics who were professing Christians, who in their heresy were actually denying the Lord they claimed to believe in; i.e., "the Lord who bought them."
It's not a statement of Jesus purchasing heretics.

God likeise ordained the slavery of Israel's captives in a just war (of defense) - Dt 20:10-11, 21:10-11, Nu 31:17-19, 25-28, 30, 46-47.

Asking where something like the Edenic Covenant is in Scripture, is to ask the wrong question; that question assumes "Solo" Scriptura, which infers you can't believe any Christian Truth that's not expressly iterated within the Bible. The Edenic Covenant is found in Sound Systematic Theology, and in Sound Covenant Theology. You believe many things that are not Verbatim Verses in the Bible; things such as the Hypostatic Union. Where is the Hypostatic Union in the Bible? That's the wrong question to ask. The best question to ask is, 'does this teaching have the Ring of Truth, while not violating the Bible Fundamentals?'...

The Hypostatic Union is a Creed; not a Verse...

 

[ReverendRV]

Is God's word in Scripture your only authority for doctrine?
Must a doctrine be presented in Scripture to be God's truth?
Are God's people to believe doctrine that God does not present in Scripture?

Where do we find an Edenic Covenant in Scripture?
Where do we find Christ's Edenic Covenant in Scripture?

This is about heretics who were professing Christians, who in their heresy were actually denying the Lord they claimed to believe in; i.e., "the Lord who bought them."
It's not a statement of Jesus purchasing heretics.

God likeise ordained the slavery of Israel's captives in a just war (of defense) - Dt 20:10-11, 21:10-11, Nu 31:17-19, 25-28, 30, 46-47.

I'm a Calvinist...

Calvinism CAN put you in a Box...

We should believe the 5-Points of Calvinism and the 5-Solas; because they are True. We should believe Calvinism because of the Positive reasons TULIP is True; IE there is no one who does Good, no, not One. Calvinism will never go away for me. I would just encourage you to ALSO believe that anyone can be Saved. John Piper said, "We believe the same as you, just More". I believe the same as you; just More. It's true that Jesus only died for the Unconditional Elect. But I believe More; I believe that Jesus Kept the Limited-to-Spiritual-Israel Mosaic Covenant of Works; AND that while Jesus did this, he also Concurrently Kept the Edenic Covenant of Works that Adam Broke. Romans 5 is about the differences in the two Edenic Covenants; and their Federal Heads...

 

[ReverendRV]

Good morning Elanor. I think I'll slow down on the Topic today; I'm enjoying the Clubhouse App right now. I'm a 5-Point Calvinist. I hold to the 5-Solas; I love Sola Scriptura. I do believe that Scripture is not the only Authority of God, so I reject "Solo" Scriptura. Nature is a Revelation of God too, but it's not Special Revelation; it's General Revelation instead. But Nature is enough General Revelation to leave Mankind without an excuse to not believe in God. The Spiritual Gift of Teaching exists, so we should expect to be taught Sound Doctrine and a True Systematic Theology...

A true Systematic Theology SHOULD include Covenant Theology, teaching the Universal, Unconditional Consequences of the Edenic Covenant. Jesus is one of the Federal Heads of the Edenic Covenant, and he Kept that Covenant for Everyone; just as Adam Broke that Covenant for Everyone. Everyone is affected by Christ's Edenic Covenant, just like Everyone was affected by Adam's Edenic Covenant. How is everyone affected by Christ's Edenic Covenant? By having a legal opportunity to be Saved by the New Covenant...

Reprobates will never be Saved though. In the Parable of the Sower, the birds carried the Seed away from the Trodden Ground. I say the Trodden Ground is the heart of the Reprobate where nothing grows. But Jesus said if the Gospel Seed is not carried away by the devil, the Trodden Ground may turn and Believe. Why? Not because of the power of the Reprobate; but because the Gospel is the Power of God unto Salvation. God has to thwart the Sowing of the Gospel, to remove the possibility the Reprobate will be Saved. Arminians ask, "Why does God Harden hearts if we can't Believe anyway?". The reason why is because the Gospel is Dynamite, and will blast our Stoney hearts; if it were not carried away...

The reason All have the opportunity to be Saved, is because of the Kept Edenic Covenant of Jesus Christ...

It doesn't look like a Slow-Down

 

[Eleanor]

Good morning Elanor. I think I'll slow down on the Topic today; I'm enjoying the Clubhouse App right now. I'm a 5-Point Calvinist. I hold to the 5-Solas; I love Sola Scriptura.
I do believe that Scripture is not the only Authority of God, so I reject "Solo" Scriptura.

Then doesn't that leave us with no authority to decide differences, and really no basis for discussion if there is no agreed upon rule of truth?

For me, discussion is about arriving at the truth, not just sharing man's ideas.

Nature is a Revelation of God too, but it's not Special Revelation; it's General Revelation instead. But Nature is enough General Revelation to not leave Mankind with an excuse for not believing in God.

Yes, nature is natural revelation, but nature cannot reveal the truth of the supernatural, wherein our salvation lies.

The Spiritual Gift of Teaching exists, so we should expect to be taught Sound Doctrine and a True Systematic Theology...

What is sound doctrine but the word of God in the Scriptures?
What is true systemic theology but the word of God in the Scriptures?

The only sound doctrine and true systemic theology is from the word of God, never from the word of man.
And the spiritual gift of teaching is given for teaching the word of God, in the Scriptures, not the word of man, in a self-created systemic theology.

A true Systematic Theology SHOULD include Covenant Theology; teaching the Universal, Unconditional Consequences of the Edenic Covenant. Jesus is one of the Federal Heads of the Edenic Covenant, and he Kept that Covenant for Everyone; just as Adam Broke that Covenant for Everyone. Everyone is affected by Christ's Edenic Covenant, just like Everyone was affected by Adam's Edenic Covenant. How is everyone affected by Christ's Edenic Covenant? By having a legal opportunity to be Saved by the New Covenant...

Thanks, but you do not answer my question of the authoritative source of God's supernatural revelation.

Reprobates will never be Saved though. In the Parable of the Sower, the birds carried the Seed away from the Trodden Ground. I say the Trodden Ground is the heart of the Reprobate where nothing grows. But Jesus said if the Gospel Seed is not carried away by the devil, the Trodden Ground may turn and Believe. Why? Not because of the power of the Reprobate; but because the Gospel is the Power of God unto Salvation. God has to thwart the Sowing of the Gospel, to remove the possibility the Reprobate will be Saved. Arminians ask, "Why does God Harden hearts if we can't Believe anyway?". The reason why is because the Gospel is Dynamite, and will blast our Stoney hearts; if it were not carried away...

The reason All have the opportunity to be Saved, is because of the Kept Edenic Covenant of Jesus Christ...

 

[Deleted member 5]

Then doesn't that leave us with no authority to decide differences, and really no basis for discussion if there is no agreed upon rule of truth?

For me, discussion is about arriving at the truth, not just sharing man's ideas.

Yes, nature is natural revelation, but nature cannot reveal the truth of the supernatural to us wherein our salvation lies.

What is sound doctrine but the word of God in the Scriptures?
What is true systemic theology by the word of God in the Scriptures?

The only sound doctrine and true systemic theology is from the word of God, never from the word of man.
And the spiritual gift of teaching is given for teaching the word of God, in the Scriptures, not the word of man, in a self-created systemic theology.

Thanks, but you do not answer my question of the authoritative source of God's supernatural revelation.

Agreed. The proper question is where are these things found in Scripture as you stated, not does it violate Scripture. The former starts with God's revelation, the latter starts with man.

So for those reasons I have to completely disagree with @ReverendRV's take here.

 

[Eleanor]

Asking where something like the Edenic Covenant is in Scripture, is to ask the wrong question; that question assumes "Solo" Scriptura, which infers you can't believe any Christian Truth that's not expressly iterated within the Bible.

"Christian truth" is an assumption.
How do you know it is Christian truth if it is not presented in Scripture?

The Edenic Covenant is found in Sound Systematic Theology, and in Sound Covenant Theology.

Do you understand that systematic theology is the systematizing of the Scriptures?

You believe many things that are not Verbatim Verses in the Bible; things such as the Hypostatic Union. Where is the Hypostatic Union in the Bible? That's the wrong question to ask. The best question to ask is, 'does this teaching have the Ring of Truth, while not violating the Bible Fundamentals?'...

The Hypostatic Union is a Creed; not a Verse...

I have presented only Biblical notions for belief.

 

[ReverendRV]

Then doesn't that leave us with no authority to decide differences, and really no basis for discussion if there is no agreed upon rule of truth?

For me, discussion is about arriving at the truth, not just sharing man's ideas.

Yes, nature is natural revelation, but nature cannot reveal the truth of the supernatural wherein our salvation lies.

What is sound doctrine but the word of God in the Scriptures?
What is true systemic theology by the word of God in the Scriptures?

The only sound doctrine and true systemic theology is from the word of God, never from the word of man.
And the spiritual gift of teaching is given for teaching the word of God, in the Scriptures, not the word of man, in a self-created systemic theology.

Thanks, but you do not answer my question of the authoritative source of God's supernatural revelation.

I'll just say I agree with the WCF chapter 1...

I think that as we go further, your concerns will go away. I'm not coming to any Conclusion, any differently than you do. If you think so, after re-reading the WCF; point one out a difference...

 

[Eleanor]

I'm a Calvinist...

Calvinism CAN put you in a Box...

We should believe the 5-Points of Calvinism and the 5-Solas; because they are True. We should believe Calvinism because of the Positive reasons TULIP is True; IE there is no one who does Good, no, not One. Calvinism will never go away for me.And how do you know Calvanism rather than Armianism is true? I would just encourage you to ALSO believe that anyone can be Saved. John Piper said, "We believe the same as you, just More". I believe the same as you; just More.

Since this is not presented in context, I have no way of knowing if what Piper said applies here, but I strongly suspect that it does not.

It's true that Jesus only died for the Unconditional Elect. But I believe More; I believe that Jesus Kept the Limited-to-Spiritual-Israel Mosaic Covenant of Works; AND that while Jesus did this, he also Concurrently Kept the Edenic Covenant of Works that Adam Broke. Romans 5 is about the differences in the two Edenic Covenants; and their Federal Heads...

We do not have the same authority for truth, so there is no way of resolving our differences here.
My authority for truth declares the above to be untruth.

 

[ReverendRV]

Since this is not presented in context, I have no way of knowing if what Piper said applies here, but I strongly suspect that it does not.

We do not have the same authority for truth, so there is no way of resolving our differences here.
My authority for truth declares the above to be untruth.

Sola Scriptura is my Authority too Elanor...

Do you hold to Covenant Theology? Do you believe in the existence of the Edenic Covenant?

 

[Eleanor]

I'll just say I agree with the WCF chapter 1...
I think that as we go further, your concerns will go away. I'm not coming to any Conclusion, any differently than you do. If you think so, after re-reading the WCF; point one out a difference...

Chapter 1 states:
nature is not sufficient to give that knowledge of God, and of his will, which is necessary for salvation,
scripture is necessary for knowledge of God, and of his will, which is necessary for salvation,
scripture is infallible truth,
man's salvation, faith and life is set down in Scripture, to which nothing is to be added,
in all controversies of religion the scriptures are to be appealed to,
the supreme Judge by which all doctrines of men are to be examined, and in whose sentence we are to rest, is only the Holy Spirit speaking in the scriptures.

I see you as in disagreement with the above from the WCF chapter 1.