• **Notifications**: Notifications can be dismissed by clicking on the "x" on the righthand side of the notice.
  • **New Style**: You can now change style options. Click on the paintbrush at the bottom of this page.
  • **Donations**: If the Lord leads you please consider helping with monthly costs and up keep on our Forum. Click on the Donate link In the top menu bar. Thanks
  • **New Blog section**: There is now a blog section. Check it out near the Private Debates forum or click on the Blog link in the top menu bar.
  • Welcome Visitors! Join us and be blessed while fellowshipping and celebrating our Glorious Salvation In Christ Jesus.

Are you Arminian, Calvinist, or other?

Are you Arminian, Calvinist, or other?

  • Calvinist

  • Arminian

  • Somewhere between Calvinism and Arminianism

  • Semi-Pelagian

  • Pelagian

  • Other

  • That's my buisness


Results are only viewable after voting.
I'm only asking if you believe Covenant Theology. The truth is, most Posters here believe Covenant Theology; and in Sola Scriptura. Those who are putting Likes on your Post, believe in Covenant Theology. If you're Reformed Sister, you most likely hold to Covenant Theology; right?

It's just a question, one I will answer; I hold to Covenant Theology. Sure; it's a leading question. One reason people won't answer a Leading Question, is because they know where they are being led. I plan to lead you, by getting you to agree that because you hold to Covenant Theology; Covenant Theology is Biblical and therefore supported by Sola Scriptura...

I don't Mind asking one more time. If you don't want to answer, that's fine; I don't twist arms...

You are my Sister in Christ. You wouldn't believe how many times I have to tell someone I meet who disagrees with me, that as time passes; they will like me a lot. Because they will see me say several good things about Calvinism they agree with...
I found your presentation back a post or two ago, concerning authority of things besides scripture to be a bit of what I call 'sloughing' of terminology. I don't think, for example, that you really believe nature is of the same ability as Scripture to judge what someone teaches, But maybe I'm wrong.

Do you also, for example, think, like the R Catholics, that the Apostolic succession is still going on, and that the church is of equal authority over conscience as Scripture is? How about tradition?
 
Okay. I'm going to take a break 😉
I've known Eleanor from a ways back. She doesn't claim Calvinism nor Reformed, but defends much of what they defend —mostly the Sovereign Grace of God. You will find her insisting on Scripture for support of your assertions. I have a tendency to trust logic that agrees with Scripture, often jumping the gun, as far as expecting her to know what I'm talking about. Her mind runs in Scripture, mine loves Scripture but I don't have her habits, there —yet. She's a great tag team partner, though.

I don't have near her understanding of, for example, Covenant Theology. I've never studied it formally, and don't always know what she's talking about there. But I'm learning more from her than maybe from everyone else combined.

Anyhow, all that to say, don't expect her to defend Calvinism nor Reformed Theology as such, though I've found her defenses of what they teach unassailable.
 
I've known Eleanor from a ways back. She doesn't claim Calvinism nor Reformed, but defends much of what they defend —mostly the Sovereign Grace of God. You will find her insisting on Scripture for support of your assertions. I have a tendency to trust logic that agrees with Scripture, often jumping the gun, as far as expecting her to know what I'm talking about. Her mind runs in Scripture, mine loves Scripture but I don't have her habits, there —yet. She's a great tag team partner, though.

I don't have near her understanding of, for example, Covenant Theology. I've never studied it formally, and don't always know what she's talking about there. But I'm learning more from her than maybe from everyone else combined.

Anyhow, all that to say, don't expect her to defend Calvinism nor Reformed Theology as such, though I've found her defenses of what they teach unassailable.
Thanks. She's fine, I think we're all going to get along...

I'm like you. I often talk about Theology the most...
 
I found your presentation back a post or two ago, concerning authority of things besides scripture to be a bit of what I call 'sloughing' of terminology. I don't think, for example, that you really believe nature is of the same ability as Scripture to judge what someone teaches, But maybe I'm wrong.

Do you also, for example, think, like the R Catholics, that the Apostolic succession is still going on, and that the church is of equal authority over conscience as Scripture is? How about tradition?
I hold to Sola Scriptura as described in the 2nd LBCF in chapter 1...

These things of God are Spiritually Discerned. The Law of Nature is not Spiritually Discerned. Roman Catholic Doctrine is either good or bad, depending on whether it mirrors Scripture. The early Councils are good, the later are bad. Just say No to Apostolic Succession...

I'm Baptist...
 
I hold to Sola Scriptura as described in the 2nd LBCF in chapter 1...

These things of God are Spiritually Discerned. The Law of Nature is not Spiritually Discerned. Roman Catholic Doctrine is either good or bad, depending on whether it mirrors Scripture. The early Councils are good, the later are bad. Just say No to Apostolic Succession...

I'm Baptist...
Except you do go outside of Scripture, which is not "only Scripture," with double ransoms by Christ, right?
 
Except you do go outside of Scripture, which is not "only Scripture," with double ransoms by Christ, right?
Right...

This is why I hold to Sola Scriptura instead of Solo Scriptura. Scripture says God gives some people the Spiritual Gift of Teaching; so we should expect to be taught Sound Doctrine. I said the other day that the Hypostatic Union is a Creed. Sure, it's found in the Bible; but why is it a Creed? Because though it is found to be the Truth of the Bible, it is more clearly taught in a Creed by those who have the Spiritual Gift of Teaching. The Teaching is given a Theological title by those with the Spiritual Gift of Teaching; IE the Hypostatic Union...
 
Right...

This is why I hold to Sola Scriptura instead of Solo Scriptura. Scripture says God gives some people the Spiritual Gift of Teaching; so we should expect to be taught Sound Doctrine. I said the other day that the Hypostatic Union is a Creed. Sure, it's found in the Bible; but why is it a Creed? Because though it is found to be the Truth of the Bible, it is more clearly taught in a Creed by those who have the Spiritual Gift of Teaching. The Teaching is given a Theological title by those with the Spiritual Gift of Teaching; IE the Hypostatic Union...

As the Trinity is a "Creed" in this sense. Check.
 
Right...

This is why I hold to Sola Scriptura instead of Solo Scriptura.
Sola Scriptura being: Scripture as the only judge of spiritual (of the Holy Spirit ) truth.

And it is the judge of spiritual truth in that it is the measure of spiritual truth.
If what is presented is not in agreement with Scripture, it is not spiritual truth.

As in the doctrine of the Trinity, not presented in Scripture as a doctrine, but when measured by Scripture, it is
in absolute agreement with what Scripture presents,
does not go outside the boundaries of what Scripture presents, and
does not subtract from what Scripture presents.

The "doctrine" of dual ransoms by Christ does not measure up.

Everywhere Scripture presents Christ's expiatory sacrifice under God's judgment upon sin as the provision of a ransom (Mt 20:28, Mk 1:45, 1 Ti 26), whereby those who receive him as the sacrifice for their sin obtain deliverance from the penalty due to sin.
Nothing is ransomed that does not accept the ransom by faith.

To posit that the purpose of Christ's brutal atoning death included anything else that was less,
that anything less would apply to all without exception, and of no faith,
contrary to the Biblical testimony of the meaning of blood sacrifice as presented in the OT sacrifices and in authoritative NT apostolic teaching,
is to hi-jack Christ's atonement for the sake of serving your personal theology,
altering the terms of his sacrifice, both in meaning (expiation) and application (by belief in him), which is
as grievous a misrepresentation of this sacred reality as were the false charges against him.

To attempt to manipulate such a staggering Christian foundational reality, all for the sake of one's own personal theology,
betrays an insufficient apprehension of the cross.
Scripture says God gives some people the Spiritual Gift of Teaching; so we should expect to be taught Sound Doctrine.
Relevance? This makes no sense.

Are you saying that because one is a teacher, what one presents will necessarily be sound doctrine?
And "the rest of the story:" Scripture likewise warns against false teachers; i.e., those teaching false doctrine.
Is this what @makesends means when he refers to "sloughing" terminology?
I said the other day that the Hypostatic Union is a Creed. Sure, it's found in the Bible; but why is it a Creed? Because though it is found to be the Truth of the Bible, it is more clearly taught in a Creed by those who have the Spiritual Gift of Teaching.
It is not taught in a Creed, it is simply stated in a Creed as belief of one of the basics of Christianity using a repetition of the words from Scripture.
The Teaching is given a Theological title by those with the Spiritual Gift of Teaching; IE the Hypostatic Union...
The title of a teaching is not necessarily connected to the spiritual gift of teaching.

Your hermeneutic has the appearance of the SDA hermeneutic, of what I call a boot-strapping hermeneutic; i.e., an irrelevant connection of facts, supposedly related, to arrive at one's desired conclusion.
 
Last edited:
Sola Scriptura being: Scripture as the only judge of spiritual (of the Holy Spirit ) truth.

And it is the judge of spiritual truth in that it is the measure of spiritual truth.
If what is presented is not in agreement with Scripture, it is not spiritual truth.

As in the doctrine of the Trinity, not presented in Scripture as a doctrine, but when measured by Scripture, it is
in absolute agreement with what Scripture presents,
does not go outside the boundaries of what Scripture presents, and
does not subtract from what Scripture presents.

The "doctrine" of dual ransoms by Christ does not measure up.

Everywhere Scripture presents Christ's expiatory sacrifice under God's judgment upon sin as the provision of a ransom (Mt 20:28, Mk 1:45, 1 Ti 26), whereby those who receive him as the sacrifice for their sin obtain deliverance from the penalty due to sin.
Nothing is ransomed that does not accept the ransom by faith.

To posit that the purpose of Christ's brutal atoning death included anything less,
that anything less would apply to all without exception,
contrary to the Biblical testimony of the meaning of blood sacrifice as presented in the OT sacrifices and in authoritative NT apostolic teaching,
is to alter the terms of his sacrifice, both in meaning (expiation) and application (by belief in him), which is
as grievous a misrepresentation of this sacred reality as were the false charges against him.

To attempt to manipulate such a staggering Christian foundational reality, all for the sake of one's own personal theology,
betrays an insufficient apprehension of the cross.

Relevance?
Are you saying that because one is a teacher, what one presents will necessarily be sound doctrine?
And "the rest of the story:" Scripture likewise warns against false teachers; i.e., those teaching false doctrine.
Is this what @makesends means when he refers to "sloughing" terminology?

It is not taught in a Creed, it is simply stated in a Creed as belief of one of the basics of Christianity using a repetition of the words from Scripture.

The title of a teaching is not necessarily connected to the spiritual gift of teaching.

Your hermeneutic has the appearance of the SDA hermeneutic, of what I call a boot-strapping hermeneutic; i.e., an irrelevant connection of facts, supposedly related, to arrive at one's desired conclusion.
Some Calvinists Confess that Sola Scriptura is the highest Arbiter of Spiritual Truth, not the only Arbiter of Spiritual Truth. The WCF teaches this in chapter one paragraph 10. Solo Scriptura teaches that Scripture is the only Arbiter of Spiritual Truth. I reject this; as does the Westminster Confession of Faith does ..
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Some Calvinists Confess that Sola Scriptura is the highest Arbiter of Spiritual Truth, not the only Arbiter of Spiritual Truth. The WCF teaches this in chapter one. Solo Scriptura teaches that Scripture is the only Arbiter of Spiritual Truth. I reject this; as does the Westminster Confession of Faith does ..
Is that the original Confession of 1690 by the authors, or a revised Confession by someone else?

The WCF of 1690, Chapter 1 (used by the PCA) states:

nature is not sufficient to give that knowledge of God, and of his will, which is necessary for salvation,
scripture is necessary for knowledge of God, and of his will, which is necessary for salvation,
scripture is infallible truth,
man's salvation, faith and life is set down in Scripture, to which nothing is to be added,
in all controversies of religion the scriptures are to be appealed to,
the supreme Judge by which all doctrines of men are to be examined, and in whose sentence we are to rest,
is only the Holy Spirit speaking in the scriptures.

According to the original WCF, Sola Scriptura adds nothing to Scripture.
You are rejecting the Sola Scriptura of the authors of the WCF, and to which Sola Scriptura I subscribe.
 
Is that the original Confession of 1690 by the authors, or a revised Confession by someone else?

The WCF of 1690, Chapter 1 (used by the PCA) states:

nature is not sufficient to give that knowledge of God, and of his will, which is necessary for salvation,
scripture is necessary for knowledge of God, and of his will, which is necessary for salvation,
scripture is infallible truth,
man's salvation, faith and life is set down in Scripture, to which nothing is to be added,
in all controversies of religion the scriptures are to be appealed to,
the supreme Judge by which all doctrines of men are to be examined, and in whose sentence we are to rest,
is only the Holy Spirit speaking in the scriptures.

According to the original WCF, Sola Scriptura adds nothing to Scripture.
You are rejecting the Sola Scriptura of the authors of the WCF, and to which Sola Scriptura I subscribe.
I agree...

But chapter 1 paragraph 10 of the WCF teaches us that as long as Creeds and Confessions are Biblical, they are good for us...
 
I agree...

But chapter 1 paragraph 10 of the WCF teaches us that as long as Creeds and Confessions are Biblical, they are good for us...
The supreme judge, by which all controversies of religion are to be determined, and all decrees of councils, opinions of ancient writers, doctrines of men, and private spirits, are to be examined, and in whose sentence we are to rest, can be no other but the Holy Scripture delivered by the Spirit, into which Scripture so delivered, our faith is finally resolved.21

The WCF has to say this, or you can't Rest in the WCF; right?

 
Good morning Elanor. I think I'll slow down on the Topic today; I'm enjoying the Clubhouse App right now. I'm a 5-Point Calvinist. I hold to the 5-Solas; I love Sola Scriptura. I do believe that Scripture is not the only Authority of God, so I reject "Solo" Scriptura. Nature is a Revelation of God too, but it's not Special Revelation; it's General Revelation instead. But Nature is enough General Revelation to not leave Mankind with an excuse for not believing in God. The Spiritual Gift of Teaching exists, so we should expect to be taught Sound Doctrine and a True Systematic Theology...

A true Systematic Theology SHOULD include Covenant Theology; teaching the Universal, Unconditional Consequences of the Edenic Covenant. Jesus is one of the Federal Heads of the Edenic Covenant, and he Kept that Covenant for Everyone; just as Adam Broke that Covenant for Everyone. Everyone is affected by Christ's Edenic Covenant, just like Everyone was affected by Adam's Edenic Covenant. How is everyone affected by Christ's Edenic Covenant? By having a legal opportunity to be Saved by the New Covenant...

Reprobates will never be Saved though. In the Parable of the Sower, the birds carried the Seed away from the Trodden Ground. I say the Trodden Ground is the heart of the Reprobate where nothing grows. But Jesus said if the Gospel Seed is not carried away by the devil, the Trodden Ground may turn and Believe. Why? Not because of the power of the Reprobate; but because the Gospel is the Power of God unto Salvation. God has to thwart the Sowing of the Gospel, to remove the possibility the Reprobate will be Saved. Arminians ask, "Why does God Harden hearts if we can't Believe anyway?". The reason why is because the Gospel is Dynamite, and will blast our Stoney hearts; if it were not carried away...

The reason All have the opportunity to be Saved, is because of the Kept Edenic Covenant of Jesus Christ...
Do you believe that Christ bore the sins of every single person, and received their punishments, when he shed his blood and died on the cross; or, do you believe that he only bore the sins and punishments of the elect?
 
You best get used to it with me. I vacillate between reverent too irreverent depending on the need and starch used.

On the flip side there used to be a "chart" that was rather fair on the different "levels" of Calvinism. I was, in truth, invariably lumped in the High Calvinist...lump.
I'll bear that in mind.
 
Some Calvinists Confess that Sola Scriptura is the highest Arbiter of Spiritual Truth, not the only Arbiter of Spiritual Truth. The WCF teaches this in chapter one paragraph 10. Solo Scriptura teaches that Scripture is the only Arbiter of Spiritual Truth. I reject this; as does the Westminster Confession of Faith does ..
Reference in the WCF? I was not aware that the WCF rejects Sola Scriptura.
 
I agree...

But chapter 1 paragraph 10 of the WCF teaches us that as long as Creeds and Confessions are Biblical, they are good for us...
Relevance to your theology of dual ransoms by Christ?
 
The supreme judge, by which all controversies of religion are to be determined, and all decrees of councils, opinions of ancient writers, doctrines of men, and private spirits, are to be examined, and in whose sentence we are to rest, can be no other but the Holy Scripture delivered by the Spirit, into which Scripture so delivered, our faith is finally resolved.21

The WCF has to say this, or you can't Rest in the WCF; right?

Love those Baptists! No doubt about it. I wanna' be in the Baptist wing of the mansion in glory,

but their confession of faith is not mine.
 
Last edited:
There is no Solo Scriptura in the original WCF.
Amen. Nothing should teach that no thing but the Scripture can be a Spiritual Authority...

When a Council is Biblical, it is a Spiritual Authority...
 
Back
Top