When we arrive in heaven…..

[Carbon]

When we believers arrive in heaven,
Will we be shown whether salvation was from us choosing first or from God regenerating first?

Will it be important there, will it be a priority and that we must know and understand?

Will it be something that we just finally know?
I do not agree with the saying that we will then know all things. We are not gods and we could never know all things.

Whether we be an Arminian or a Calvinist, do you think we just might say, “see, I knew I understood the truth,” salvation was by “free will, or “it was by God regenerating first.”

And if that truth is not revealed to us, would it make a difference?

Thoughts?

 

[Carbon]

When we believers arrive in heaven,
Will be he shown whether salvation was from us choosing first or from God regenerating first?

Will it be important there, will it be a priority and that we must know and understand?

Will it be something that we just finally know?
I do not agree with the saying that we will then know all things. We are not gods and we could never know all things.

Whether we be an Arminian or a Calvinist, do you think we just might say, “see, I knew I understood the truth,” salvation was by “free will, or “it was by God regenerating first.”

And if that truth is not revealed to us, would it make a difference?

Thoughts?

I have heard remarks like,
Once he gets to heaven he will know the truth, he will see Calvinism, or Arminianism was the truth.

But will we?

Is there any scripture to support for the revelation of this truth?

 

[Ladodgers6]

When we believers arrive in heaven,
Will be he shown whether salvation was from us choosing first or from God regenerating first?

Will it be important there, will it be a priority and that we must know and understand?

Will it be something that we just finally know?
I do not agree with the saying that we will then know all things. We are not gods and we could never know all things.

Whether we be an Arminian or a Calvinist, do you think we just might say, “see, I knew I understood the truth,” salvation was by “free will, or “it was by God regenerating first.”

And if that truth is not revealed to us, would it make a difference?

Thoughts?

This has been the debate over the centuries. The Pelagian; Semi-Pelagian; Synergistic position have all been condemned by more church councils in church history. I see the problem of Free-Willers is that they believe and trust lies in their decision; or try locate their salvation in their response to the Gospel, rather than in who Jesus is and what He has done. Free-Willers will also deny that Grace (Regeneration) before Faith is what saves. So, then what saves the sinners? Their efforts and works? Their wills and desires? But trusting and leaning on their decision is not assurance, because one day they will not feel saved or feel they do not have enough Faith. Faith doesn't make the facts of Gospel true. The facts of the Gospel are true regardless of our wills, desires, decisions, either we believe it or not.

It's all of Grace; it is God who makes us alive in Christ by His will, not ours.

These are my thoughts, more to come.​

 

[Sereni-tea]

When we believers arrive in heaven,
Will be he shown whether salvation was from us choosing first or from God regenerating first?

Will it be important there, will it be a priority and that we must know and understand?

Will it be something that we just finally know?
I do not agree with the saying that we will then know all things. We are not gods and we could never know all things.

Whether we be an Arminian or a Calvinist, do you think we just might say, “see, I knew I understood the truth,” salvation was by “free will, or “it was by God regenerating first.”

And if that truth is not revealed to us, would it make a difference?

Thoughts?

I think when we enter heaven, none of these issues will be important in any way. We will see the Lord face-to-face and everything else will pale into insignificance. When we see Jesus we will know that He is the Sovereign Lord; we will see our sins and know that we are only there because of His mercy and grace; we will know what it truly means to be enslaved to sin because we will be finally free of sin once and for all. We will see His beauty and majesty and we will know everything we need to know - and that will be Him alone.

I am not sure what exactly we will know in the life to come, but I think we are more likely to say "none of us were close" than we are of saying "see I was right". It's like trying to jump to the moon - some of us may be able to jump a little higher than others, but at the end of the day none of us are close to reaching the target. I say this not because I think there is no right or wrong here (I am a Calvinist after all! ) but because when it comes to talking about spiritual things, I think our understanding, as well as our language, have serious limitation.

For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts.
Isaiah 55:9

 

[LeviR]

The saints will praise he(the Lamb)who alone is worthy to open the seals.

 

[Arial]

I have heard remarks like,
Once he gets to heaven he will know the truth, he will see Calvinism, or Arminianism was the truth.

But will we?

Is there any scripture to support for the revelation of this truth?

The only scripture I can think of that may shed light on the matter is 1 Cor 3:10-15 According to the grace of God given to me, like a skilled master builder I laid a foundation, and someone else is building upon it. Let each one take care how he builds up on it. For no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, with, hay, straw---each one's work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If anyone's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but as through fire.

And 1 Cor 13:12 For now we see through a glass darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

I think we will know because it will become apparent, but doctrines won't be a concern or discussion. Those things will be behind us. They are for this world not the new world. There will be only worship and peace and joy in the Lord. We certainly won't be saying to anyone, "See. I told you so."

 

[Mr GLee]

When we believers arrive in heaven,
Will be he shown whether salvation was from us choosing first or from God regenerating first?

Will it be important there, will it be a priority and that we must know and understand?

Will it be something that we just finally know?
I do not agree with the saying that we will then know all things. We are not gods and we could never know all things.

Whether we be an Arminian or a Calvinist, do you think we just might say, “see, I knew I understood the truth,” salvation was by “free will, or “it was by God regenerating first.”

And if that truth is not revealed to us, would it make a difference?

Thoughts?

I would offer.

Good question especially for today.

The former things will not be remembered or ever come to mind . Universal Alzheimer's.

Ecclesiastic 9:5-7 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun. Go thy way, eat thy bread with joy, and drink thy wine with a merry heart; for God now accepteth thy works.

Now is the time believers can get together as new creatures. . . the new family of God and love one another of the household of faith. (invisible things of God spiritual)

Now is the time we can meet new family members that call no man one earth Father . One is our adopting Father in heaven Abba.

Revelation 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away

Some teach there will be no change. . reincarnation hoping to return to the same fleshly family, dying mankind . Like the Queen mother of Catholicism they call Mary or Peter the supposed Holy Father. The abomination of desolation. . making sola scriptura without effect.

Satan the father of lies the author and finisher of identity theft. (I will be like God)

Legion, the King of lying signs to wonder, wonder, wonder after rather than believe prophecy sealed to the end of time. .

Prophecy the living word. . . no wondering needed.

In that way as sons of God the wife or bride of Christ we know not what we will be. All die not receiving the promised incorruptible body that will never die..

Believers are informed their new bodies will be neither male nor female, Jew nor Gentile .

1 John 3:1-2 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

It would seem Satan the author of lying signs and wonders is working overtime today through Gnosticism (secret knowledge) adding to the knowledge of God (sola scriptura) with a oral tradition as false prophecy of dying mankind .

Going full steam in todays new alphabet LGBTQIA2S+ (the hope or reincarnation).

The teaching. . . Identify your selves to whatever your childish imagination comes up with.

Go figure adults' trying to teach children how to imagine what to imagine .Like maybe there had no childhood.?????

Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

 

[fastfredy0]

Will be he shown whether salvation was from us choosing first or from God regenerating first?

Maybe ... Gal. 5:2-6 might be taken to say those who believe they must do work(s) to be saved are accursed where work is defined as something I do to be saved and many believe one must self-determine (be the cause of) their faith.
John 6:29 Jesus replied, “The work of God is this: to believe in the One He has sent.”

Will it be important there, will it be a priority and that we must know and understand?

If it is important to know the cause of our salvation is exclusively God then I say "yes".

Will it be something that we just finally know?

When it comes to knowledge in heaven I don't even know if we will have a clue of our previous life. The potential evidence of this thought is: Isaiah 65:17
“Behold, I am creating new heavens and a new earth;
And the former things [of life] will not be remembered or come to mind.

Always the thought provoking questions Carbon... thx

Once he gets to heaven he will know the truth, he will see Calvinism, or Arminianism was the truth.

But will we?

Is there any scripture to support for the revelation of this truth?

I could give 400ish verses to support Calvinism view
point ... some more explicit than others .... or 8ish verses on the Arminian side.

 

[Carbon]

I think we will know because it will become apparent, but doctrines won't be a concern or discussion. Those things will be behind us. They are for this world not the new world. There will be only worship and peace and joy in the Lord. We certainly won't be saying to anyone, "See. I told you so."

I agree with you here. It’s pretty much what I was thinking.

 

[Carbon]

When it comes to knowledge in heaven I don't even know if we will have a clue of our previous life. The potential evidence of this thought is: Isaiah 65:17
“Behold, I am creating new heavens and a new earth;
And the former things [of life] will not be remembered or come to mind.

I appreciate your thoughts. Though I have not considered this verse in Isaiah to mean nothing will be remembered from the past. it’s thought provoking.
I believe it is teaching of certain things, but exactly what? . Interesting

Always the thought provoking questions Carbon... thx

Thanks for your thought provoking answers as well.

I could give 400ish verses to support Calvinism view
point ... some more explicit than others .... or 8ish verses on the Arminian side.

Personally, I do not see any on the Arminian side. No offense to my brothers and sisters who are Arminian.
However, considering scripture from the Arminian perspective I can mentally work some scriptures into the system; but it is a work.

 

[Carbon]

I would offer.

Good question especially for today.

The former things will not be remembered or ever come to mind . Universal Alzheimer's.

Ecclesiastic 9:5-7 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun. Go thy way, eat thy bread with joy, and drink thy wine with a merry heart; for God now accepteth thy works.

Isn’t this referring to unbelievers?

Now is the time believers can get together as new creatures. . . the new family of God and love one another of the household of faith. (invisible things of God spiritual)

Now is the time we can meet new family members that call no man one earth Father . One is our adopting Father in heaven Abba.

Okay . . .

Revelation 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away

Teaching on believers? The former, like pain, sins, etc will be gone.

 

[fastfredy0]

I appreciate your thoughts. Though I have not considered this verse in Isaiah to mean nothing will be remembered from the past. it’s thought provoking.
I believe it is teaching of certain things, but exactly what? . Interesting

Yeah, Isaiah 65:17 has me perplexed. It is nice to think one will meet his dad or mom or whoever in heaven and this verse puts that into question.
Mentioned it to a pastor once ... he said something like: "Well, there's the rich man and Lazaus" story and Lazarus knew Abraham. I didn't want to debate him but it was a parable and know way Lazarus knew Abraham from his time on earth.
.... anyways, interesting .... hope I will remember and meet my dad again ... got my doubts.

Personally, I do not see any on the Arminian side. No offense to my brothers and sisters who are Arminian.
However, considering scripture from the Arminian perspective I can mentally work some scriptures into the system; but it is a work.

Agreed ... lot of Arminian support verses depend on ambiguous words like: all, everyone, world i.e. John 3:16 ..... also, God is Love and therefore yada, yada

 

[Carbon]

Yeah, Isaiah 65:17 has me perplexed. It is nice to think one will meet his dad or mom or whoever in heaven and this verse puts that into question.
Mentioned it to a pastor once ... he said something like: "Well, there's the rich man and Lazaus" story and Lazarus knew Abraham. I didn't want to debate him but it was a parable and know way Lazarus knew Abraham from his time on earth.
.... anyways, interesting .... hope I will remember and meet my dad again ... got my doubts.

That sounds kinda sad.
With no scripture support, I tend to think we will know each other. Maybe not right away, kinda like Jesus when he was resurrected, he wasn’t recognize right away. Luke 24

Agreed ... lot of Arminian support verses depend on ambiguous words like: all, everyone, world i.e. John 3:16 ..... also, God is Love and therefore yada, yada

 

[Carbon]

Agreed ... lot of Arminian support verses depend on ambiguous words like: all, everyone, world i.e. John 3:16 ..... also, God is Love and therefore yada, yada

Also, isn’t that shaky ground to build doctrine on?
I think so.
Though it may take time to realize it.

 

[fastfredy0]

Also, isn’t that shaky ground to build doctrine on?
I think so.

Agreed. I didn't realize how "all" and "world" could be ambiguous until I read an explanation with examples.
Arminians have two BIG advantages:
1) it is intuitive to think that we are the First Cause of our actions.
2) it seems "fair" to give everyone an equal opportunity to be saved

I still vote for universalism .. though this is not a democracy and not my understanding of the facts *giggle*

 

[Ladodgers6]

The saints will praise he(the Lamb)who alone is worthy to open the seals.

He has opened the ancient gates that has been sealed by One Man's Act of Disobedience.

 

[Mr GLee]

Isn’t this referring to unbelievers?

Okay . . .

Teaching on believers? The former, like pain, sins, etc will be gone.

I would offer all of mankind.

Like pain of memory loss along with decreasing eye sight , teeth, ears hearing, sense of balance, loss of memory . . dying things.

Alzheimer's the worst disease.

Our new memories. . . Yoked with Christ, memory of the most unappreciated gifts .

Christ the hard drive unlimited


Christ in us teaches and brings to our memory.

26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Philippians 1:3 I thank my God upon every remembrance of you,

2 Timothy 1:3 I thank God, whom I serve from my forefathers with pure conscience, that without ceasing I have remembrance of thee in my prayers night and day;