Eternal life, given or offered?

[Mr GLee]

Galatians 3:16​

“Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.”

A little different same conclusion. I would hope.

seeds plural, dying mankind

seed "born again" singular invisible, Christ the living God

Galatians 3:16Now to Abraham and his seed (Christ's) were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.”

Same spiritual born again seed . The seed Onan poured out. Same first born birthright seed Esau sold for a cup of Jacob's hairy goat soup .Seeing no value in the unseen eternal things of God

Genesis 38:9James Version And Onan knew that the seed (Christ) should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother.

This time Judah (I praise the lord )". was used to pass on the seed with the gentle woman Tamar his daughter in law disguised as a prostitutes' passing down the born again seed.

Satan again destroying the second born again seed. . used to represent our second birth.

Like the first time. Just like Cain the first born and Abel the second. born. Cain murdered .Abel was replaced with another second born Enos (mortal man) to represent the law a "man must be born again from above" Jesus said marvel not but rather believe. marveling wondering leads to Limbo

It was then men were given a vision of how weak and helpless they were and they were power to call on Him not seen.

Genesis 4:25-26 And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew. And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the Lord.

 

[JIM]

John in his first letter writes this:

“10 ¶ He who believes in the Son of God has the witness in himself; he who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed the testimony that God has given of His Son. 11 And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may [continue to] believe in the name of the Son of God.” (1Jo 5:10-13 NKJV)

Yes, but that is, according to Reformed Theology, only for the regenerated. My question was how can you know that you have been regenerated?

 

[David Lamb]

Yes, but that is, according to Reformed Theology, only for the regenerated. My question was how can you know that you have been regenerated?

Of course it's for those who are Christians, the regenerated, as you call them, because that's who John was addressing his letters to. The passage I quoted makes this clear: "These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may [continue to] believe in the name of the Son of God.” (1Jo 5:10-13 NKJV) You say that your question was how can you know that you have been regenerated, but you have to be regenerated before you can know that you have been regenerated. I don't really understand what point you are trying to make here, sorry.

 

[JIM]

Of course it's for those who are Christians, the regenerated, as you call them, because that's who John was addressing his letters to. The passage I quoted makes this clear: "These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may [continue to] believe in the name of the Son of God.” (1Jo 5:10-13 NKJV) You say that your question was how can you know that you have been regenerated, but you have to be regenerated before you can know that you have been regenerated. I don't really understand what point you are trying to make here, sorry.

You say you have been regenerated. But the monergist says that regeneration is not due to anything about you. Unless you have been regenerated, you can only think you believe in the name of the Son of God. According to a recent survey, approximately 68% of Americans claim to believe in the Christian faith. Are all those regenerated?

 

[Mr GLee]

Calvinists, can you show me anywhere in the Bible where eternal life is given to you, personally? What is your assurance that you, personally, have been regenerated?

Do you mean like, whoever has the eternal faith of Christ belongs to Christ? No Christ no belief. ??

It as it is writen by the finger of God it gives the faith the undestanding of God not seen .or you would not be questioning it as it is written.

I think the question. How do you think it works to cause a desire and apposing them that have no desire ?

To know God is eternal life .His eternal world is born again new spirit life giving Dying flesh and blood profits for zero

John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

 

[David Lamb]

You say you have been regenerated. But the monergist says that regeneration is not due to anything about you. Unless you have been regenerated, you can only think you believe in the name of the Son of God. According to a recent survey, approximately 68% of Americans claim to believe in the Christian faith. Are all those regenerated?

But monergists don't say that belief is unnecessary. According to God's word, both the new birth and belief in the Lord Jesus Christ are essential for salvation. As for the 68% of Americans who claim to believe in the Christian faith, I have no idea whether each of them has been born again, though I suspect not - the USA is probably similar to the UK in having many people who, if asked, say they are Christians, but who know nothing about the need for salvation and that need met only in the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[JIM]

Do you mean like, whoever has the eternal faith of Christ belongs to Christ? No Christ no belief. ??

@Mr GLee , Have you been regenerated? If so, how do you know?

 

[JIM]

But monergists don't say that belief is unnecessary. According to God's word, both the new birth and belief in the Lord Jesus Christ are essential for salvation. As for the 68% of Americans who claim to believe in the Christian faith, I have no idea whether each of them has been born again, though I suspect not - the USA is probably similar to the UK in having many people who, if asked, say they are Christians, but who know nothing about the need for salvation and that need met only in the Lord Jesus Christ.

If you have not been regenerated, then nothing you think you know or believe will make any difference. Monergists say that only the regenerated can really believe. How much "true" belief is required to know that you have been regenerated?

 

[David Lamb]

If you have not been regenerated, then nothing you think you know or believe will make any difference. Monergists say that only the regenerated can really believe. How much "true" belief is required to know that you have been regenerated?

Monergists and Synergists believe what Jesus said here:

“"Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.” (Joh 6:47 NKJV)

And here:

“Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."” (Joh 3:3 NKJV)

 

[Mr GLee]

@Mr GLee , Have you been regenerated? If so, how do you know?

I would offer.

A living, abiding hope beyond the grave. All die not receiving their new bodies. All will receive in the twinkling of the eye .

Hebrews11: 39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

 

[JIM]

Monergists and Synergists believe what Jesus said here:

“"Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.” (Joh 6:47 NKJV)

As a synergist, I certainly believe that.

And here:

“Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."” (Joh 3:3 NKJV)

As a synergist, I believe that also. But as a monergist, how could one know that what he thinks he "sees" about the kingdom is really about the kingdom if he can't know if he has been regenerated? How is it possible for the monergist to know that he has been regenerated and what he sees about the kingdom is in fact true?

 

[JIM]

I would offer.

A living, abiding hope beyond the grave. All die not receiving their new bodies. All will receive in the twinkling of the eye .

Hebrews11: 39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

I understand Hebrews 11:39. I am not sure how that tells anyone how they might determine whether or not they have been regenerated.

 

[LeviR]

I understand Hebrews 11:39. I am not sure how that tells anyone how they might determine whether or not they have been regenerated.

You are regenerated if you believe as they do.

 

[JIM]

You are regenerated if you believe as they do.

They didn't even know anything about the gospel, let alone regeneration.

Eph 1:7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, 8 which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight 9 making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ 10 as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.

 

[Arial]

The power to change the universe as some in the Reformed Theology claim to have occurred when Adam sinned is, if not infinite, very close to being infinite. If Adam did it, just where did he get such power? Only God could do that. But He didn't.

Again. Straw man. I never said Adam had the power to change the universe or that he did change the universe. And that idea is nowhere taught in Reformed theology. Neither can it be correctly derived from the post you are responding to. It is as though you read a couple of words of a post and then take these giant leaps into oblivion or utter fantasy.

And who but God would have the power and the authority to impute the sin of Adam upon the whole rest of mankind? The God of the Bible would not commit such injustice. That you think He would tells me all I need to know about the religion you profess. It's flat wrong.

The thing about Reformed theology is that it basis its conclusions and doctrines on what God has to say about a subject. Instead of what you apparently do. Decide who God is and what he can and cannot do, what he will and will not do, what is just and unjust, according to the way you think he should be. Adam was the first human. God determined that humans would be what Adam was. And Adam became a sinner. Humans are sinners. Aren't they?

You have God ruling and reigning in a chaotic way, and a sacrifice that is futile. You say Christ died for Adam's sin, removing it from all other humans. (So you do admit to original sin, you just say it doesn't exist ANYMORE.) So what we have God determining in his well ordered universe, is starting over with each new baby born. ANd at some arbitrary age he becomes accountable for the sins he has already committed and those he will commit. So what now? Christ already died and rose again and returned to the Father. WHose to substitute himself for YOUR sin?

Did you not notice that one of God's attributes is perfection in all things. Everything orderly and consistent? You just don't like the way he does things so you say they aren't true, and make up your own way. You are not alone in that.

 

[Arial]

Calvinists, can you show me anywhere in the Bible where eternal life is given to you, personally? What is your assurance that you, personally, have been regenerated?

There is nothing more personal than eternal life. LOL I wouldn't believe the gospel, the person and work of Jesus. I wouldn't believe he is the Son of God and also one of us, or that he died and three days later rose from the grave and after another fortys days returned to his Father. I wouldn't believe that in his death and resurrection he purchased me for God with his blood, and washed away my sins. Or that I one day too would be bodily resurrected and the world would be made new and without any evil and God would dwell with us. If I had not been regenerated those things would sound foolish to me and I would not believe then. But I do believe them, therefore I have been regenerated.

Believe the Bible says. Believe and you will be saved.

 

[JIM]

The thing about Reformed theology is that it basis its conclusions and doctrines on what God has to say about a subject. Instead of what you apparently do.

There is nothing more disgusting to me than the ridiculous claim by too many that "Your argument is not with me, your argument is with God". The absolute arrogance of such a claim is truly amazing. Please do not try to convince me that what you believe is from God, and what those who disagree with what you believe is not from God.

Decide who God is and what he can and cannot do, what he will and will not do, what is just and unjust, according to the way you think he should be. Adam was the first human. God determined that humans would be what Adam was. And Adam became a sinner. Humans are sinners. Aren't they?

God determined that humans would be what Adam was, not what Adam became. Those who sin become, just as Adam did, sinners.

You have God ruling and reigning in a chaotic way, and a sacrifice that is futile. You say Christ died for Adam's sin, removing it from all other humans. (So you do admit to original sin, you just say it doesn't exist ANYMORE.)

There is nothing chaotic about God's giving every living human being a spirit that is alive and well and free from the blight of another man's sin when they are born. No, I didn't admit to original sin. I said it never existed. The effect of Jesus death on the cross was retroactive to the very beginning in all things. What I said, were it not for Jesus' sacrifice on the cross, the effect would have been that essentially all men would have been eternally condemned.

So what we have God determining in his well ordered universe, is starting over with each new baby born. ANd at some arbitrary age he becomes accountable for the sins he has already committed and those he will commit.

Until the child becomes accountable, he has not committed any sin.

So what now? Christ already died and rose again and returned to the Father. WHose to substitute himself for YOUR sin?

Are you serious? Christ didn't die to substitute himself for Adam's sin only. He died to substitute himself for the sins of the world. He came to fulfill the law. The law was fulfilled when the sins of the world were paid for. That happened once for all when Jesus died on the cross.

Did you not notice that one of God's attributes is perfection in all things. Everything orderly and consistent? You just don't like the way he does things so you say they aren't true, and make up your own way. You are not alone in that.

Yes indeed, one of God's attributes is perfection in all things. And that attribute would prohibit God from giving a dead spirit to anyone. I like the way He does things. I just don't like the way you say He does things. He does not give a spirit dead in Adam's sin to anyone. He didn't give Adam a dead spirit and He hasn't and doesn't give a dead spirit to anyone else either.

That you would think that God would do such a thing is bad enough. But what is truly appalling is that anyone would build an entire theology based on God doing such a thing.

 

[JIM]

There is nothing more personal than eternal life. LOL I wouldn't believe the gospel, the person and work of Jesus. I wouldn't believe he is the Son of God and also one of us, or that he died and three days later rose from the grave and after another fortys days returned to his Father. I wouldn't believe that in his death and resurrection he purchased me for God with his blood, and washed away my sins. Or that I one day too would be bodily resurrected and the world would be made new and without any evil and God would dwell with us. If I had not been regenerated those things would sound foolish to me and I would not believe then. But I do believe them, therefore I have been regenerated.

God has never said any such thing. That is all made up. What is true is that you would not have believed any of that if God had not given His written revelation that you could hear and read. Faith doesn't come by being regenerated. Faith comes from hearing and hearing by the word of God (Christ) (Rom 10:17). Faith doesn't come by being regenerated; rather, regeneration comes by being raised up with Christ through faith in the working of God, who raised Jesus from the dead (Col 2:11-13).

Believe the Bible says. Believe and you will be saved.

Believe and you will be regenerated. Believe and you will be born again. Believe and your spirit dead in your trespasses and sins will be made alive again.

Col 2:13 When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions,

That is regeneration!!!

 

[Red Baker]

What I find interesting in all of this is that the monergist cannot even know that he has been regenerated. I know the claim is made that they can be known by one means or another, but that simply is not so stated in the Bible.

Jim, the difference between myself and those men/women who believe in something they have, or are doing, will get them eternal life, is faith in the gospel of Jesus Christ, that declares that he alone secured eternal life for God's elect by his perfect life of faith and obedience to the God of heaven as the second Adam. I look to Christ alone for free justification of my sins (I do not look at my works of any kind, past, present, or future) and the gift of eternal life just as those in the wilderness looked to the serpent. It is by faith we believe what we do.

1st John 5 is powerful and beautiful about the Person of Jesus the Son of God. Faith in Him will overcome the world. As John wrote in his Gospel, the Father loveth the Son, and the Father hath given more than adequate proof of His Son for all to believe. The witness of God is greater than any evidence or testimony of men for anything. But only those born of heaven will believe the infallible proofs of God’s Son, so faith in Christ becomes the evidence of eternal life. But faith in Jesus the Son of God is much more than evidence, it is the means of total life victory.

Prove to me, through Scripture, that you have been regenerated. Prove to me through Scripture that you have that new man within you.

Jim, you desire for others to prove something to you that comes only by faith~another person could ask you, why do you believe the scriptures are from God, a God you have never seen or spoken to? You and and I can boldly say: Faith is the evidence that causes me to believe...... but it does not stop there, this faith from heaven given freely to God's elect, WORKS by love..... love for God, his word and his people. Without which, no man can claim to have the faith of Jesus Christ, no man. James 2; 1st John 5:1; and many more such scriptures like this one:

Galatians 5:6​

“For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.”

 

[JIM]

Jim, the difference between myself and those men/women who believe in something they have, or are doing, will get them eternal life, is faith in the gospel of Jesus Christ, that declares that he alone secured eternal life for God's elect by his perfect life of faith and obedience to the God of heaven as the second Adam. I look to Christ alone for free justification of my sins (I do not look at my works of any kind, past, present, or future) and the gift of eternal life just as those in the wilderness looked to the serpent. It is by faith we believe what we do.

1st John 5 is powerful and beautiful about the Person of Jesus the Son of God. Faith in Him will overcome the world. As John wrote in his Gospel, the Father loveth the Son, and the Father hath given more than adequate proof of His Son for all to believe. The witness of God is greater than any evidence or testimony of men for anything. But only those born of heaven will believe the infallible proofs of God’s Son, so faith in Christ becomes the evidence of eternal life. But faith in Jesus the Son of God is much more than evidence, it is the means of total life victory.

Jim, you desire for others to prove something to you that comes only by faith~another person could ask you, why do you believe the scriptures are from God, a God you have never seen or spoken to? You and and I can boldly say: Faith is the evidence that causes me to believe...... but it does not stop there, this faith from heaven given freely to God's elect, WORKS by love..... love for God, his word and his people. Without which, no man can claim to have the faith of Jesus Christ, no man. James 2; 1st John 5:1; and many more such scriptures like this one:

Galatians 5:6​

“For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.”

Oh Red. You are so close. You said, "Faith is the evidence that causes me to believe......". You almost get it, but alas. Faith in God is believing in God.

Rom 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

You said, "Jim, you desire for others to prove something to you that comes only by faith~another person could ask you, why do you believe the scriptures are from God, a God you have never seen or spoken to?"

I am not asking anyone to prove to me that you have been regenerated. I am asking you to prove to yourself with scripture that you have been regenerated.

I am convinced the scriptures are from God, because the scriptures present a compelling chronical and report of the history of God's relationship with man from the very beginning. That is, I believe what the Bible says. Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

We believe what the scriptures say; that is, we become convinced that what the Bible says is the truth. We become convinced of that by reading it ourselves or by hearing it from one that we know and trust. Then in believing what the scriptures say, we then believe in God who is the author of what the scriptures say. Believing in God is faith in God. Believing in God and faith in God are one and the very same. There is no difference between those two things.

Faith isn't evidence of anything. Faith, believing in God, comes by being convinced by what God presents in His revelation. What God presents in that revelation, the Bible, is the evidence that convinces.