An Overview of the Tribulation.

[3 Resurrections]

Battle of Armageddon is being described.

That certainly is part of this. And that is also included as part of John's "at hand" prophesied events for his own first-century generation. Already fulfilled long ago - done with a fork in it.

 

[CrowCross]

That certainly is part of this. And that is also included as part of John's "at hand" prophesied events for his own first-century generation. Already fulfilled long ago - done with a fork in it.

Then what's next?

 

[3 Resurrections]

Then what's next?

You mean for us in our own future?

 

[CrowCross]

That certainly is part of this. And that is also included as part of John's "at hand" prophesied events for his own first-century generation. Already fulfilled long ago - done with a fork in it.

Then what's next?

You mean for us in our own future?

I know the rapture is next....what do you say is next?

 

[3 Resurrections]

I know the rapture is next....what do you say is next?

The event which Paul predicted in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 is ancient history by now. The "rapture" came and went for all the bodily-resurrected saints: those who had died prior to Pentecost day in the AD 70 year. This took place "immediately after" that Great Tribulation by the returning Christ. This resurrection was predicted by Daniel for that last 1,335th day, and almost every book of the NT testified about that event soon to come in their first-century generation.

You and I are currently waiting on Christ's third coming in our distant future - not that second coming in which He already bodily returned to the Mount of Olives to resurrect His saints and "receive them unto Himself", that where He was, they would be also (in heaven).

But more in tune with our own immediate future, ten years from now in 2033 I believe the transition at the end of the 6th millennium over to the 7th millennium of human history will take place. Sabbath periods in scripture related to the number 7 are usually characterized as being a time of rest for mankind - of fallow conditions, even for the ground itself. I believe God will impose a world-wide Sabbath period of sorts for this coming 7th millennium: a time when the affairs of men are brought down to a more basic level of subsistence when they are forced to "be still and know that I am God".

 

[CrowCross]

The event which Paul predicted in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 is ancient history by now. The "rapture" came and went for all the bodily-resurrected saints: those who had died prior to Pentecost day in the AD 70 year. This took place "immediately after" that Great Tribulation by the returning Christ. This resurrection was predicted by Daniel for that last 1,335th day, and almost every book of the NT testified about that event soon to come in their first-century generation.

Yeah, I read about it on the front page of the Daily Jerusalem.

Thousands of "Followers of the way" were caught up into the clouds to meet their Savior, Lord and God Jesus Christ. This event took place "immediately after" that Great Tribulation by the returning Christ.​

You and I are currently waiting on Christ's third coming in our distant future - not that second coming in which He already bodily returned to the Mount of Olives to resurrect His saints and "receive them unto Himself", that where He was, they would be also (in heaven).

In the article from the Daily Jerusalem I read about how Jesus bodily returned and stood on the Mount of Olives. The article said :

Jesus stood on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem. At that time the Mount of Olives split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half the mountain moving to the north and half to the south.​

But more in tune with our own immediate future, ten years from now in 2033 I believe the transition at the end of the 6th millennium over to the 7th millennium of human history will take place. Sabbath periods in scripture related to the number 7 are usually characterized as being a time of rest for mankind - of fallow conditions, even for the ground itself. I believe God will impose a world-wide Sabbath period of sorts for this coming 7th millennium: a time when the affairs of men are brought down to a more basic level of subsistence when they are forced to "be still and know that I am God".

So, the New World Order...CBDC...the building of the third temple...and being forced to be still and know that "I am God"....which is considered as a basic level of subsistence...is future?

 

[3 Resurrections]

Yeah, I read about it on the front page of the Daily Jerusalem.

Thousands of "Followers of the way" were caught up into the clouds to meet their Savior, Lord and God Jesus Christ. This event took place "immediately after" that Great Tribulation by the returning Christ.​

No, that's not quite what I have written. It was only resurrected believers who were "raptured" in AD 70, immediately after the Great Tribulation of those days from AD 66-70. Those believers who had not yet died before that time did not participate in that particular second resurrection event. They are waiting for the third event. Those raptured "alive" and "remaining" saints of 1 Thessalonians 4:15 & 17 were those who had already been made "alive" by the resurrection process, such as Lazarus, Dorcas, and the Matthew 27:52-53 resurrected believers, etc.. These bodily-resurrected saints had been "remaining" on the earth in those glorified bodies, waiting for Christ's bodily return, which occurred in AD 70.

In the article from the Daily Jerusalem I read about how Jesus bodily returned and stood on the Mount of Olives. The article said :

Jesus stood on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem. At that time the Mount of Olives split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half the mountain moving to the north and half to the south.​

Your mockery notwithstanding, the Zechariah 14:4-5 prophecy as written in the LXX has most definitely already occurred. The landslide rubble resulting from the earthquake which shook the Mount of Olives back at Christ's AD 70 return is today lying in a 40' deep layer at the bottom of the Kidron Valley. This layer of landslide rubble blocking up the Kidron Valley as far as Azal at the southeastern corner of Jerusalem was predicted by Zechariah 14:4-5 in the LXX.

A "New World Order" which many think will be imposed on this planet I see no foundation for in scripture. None. Neither do I see God intending to allow a third temple structure in Jerusalem to be built. WE as "living stones" are essentially being built up as a holy "third temple" - the spiritual one not made with hands.

 

[EarlyActs]

Whether this is a caricature type of Jewish literature or more literal....NOTHING has ever happened in history that has come close to this depiction.

But the destruction of Jerusalem was called the fulfillment of all the wrath predicted to fall upon Israel in Lk 21 and I Th 2. When you read Mt 24A and realize that it copies many lines from Mt 10 and is truly meant to be about that generation, you can see why the superlatives would be used. In addition it was the 70th week of Daniel where destruction (on Israel) would come like a 'dabar' (a Genesis flood, not an annual flood).

Surely you realize that there is a hermeneutic issue about when the NT refers to the whole world and when merely to Israel. Mt 24 is an important study on that, because after v29 the scope and setting is worldwide (four corners of earth). But before v29 ("A") it is confined to Israel.

This is why I teach a delay doctrine. B is expected "right after" A just as Rom 2 has portrayed (first the Jew and then the Gentile). But there is a delay of the wrath on the Gentiles, which is why 2 Peter 3 was written--to explain why. And 2 P 3 is clearly world-wide is scope and setting.

If a person does not proceed with a delay between Mt 24A and B, everything is chaos: the Judean scope of 24A is lost, the unity of Dan 9 is lost, the history of the destruction is lost, the normal sense of the text is lost.

 

[CrowCross]

No, that's not quite what I have written. It was only resurrected believers who were "raptured" in AD 70, immediately after the Great Tribulation of those days from AD 66-70. Those believers who had not yet died before that time did not participate in that particular second resurrection event. They are waiting for the third event. Those raptured "alive" and "remaining" saints of 1 Thessalonians 4:15 & 17 were those who had already been made "alive" by the resurrection process, such as Lazarus, Dorcas, and the Matthew 27:52-53 resurrected believers, etc.. These bodily-resurrected saints had been "remaining" on the earth in those glorified bodies, waiting for Christ's bodily return, which occurred in AD 70.

They had glorified bodies???? OK, if you say so.

Your mockery notwithstanding, the Zechariah 14:4-5 prophecy as written in the LXX has most definitely already occurred. The landslide rubble resulting from the earthquake which shook the Mount of Olives back at Christ's AD 70 return is today lying in a 40' deep layer at the bottom of the Kidron Valley. This layer of landslide rubble blocking up the Kidron Valley as far as Azal at the southeastern corner of Jerusalem was predicted by Zechariah 14:4-5 in the LXX.

This so-called "landslide" is nothing compared to what the bible mentions. Maybe you ought to go read the description again.

A "New World Order" which many think will be imposed on this planet I see no foundation for in scripture. None.

Rev 13.

Neither do I see God intending to allow a third temple structure in Jerusalem to be built. WE as "living stones" are essentially being built up as a holy "third temple" - the spiritual one not made with hands.

The bible mentions a third temple that the anti-christ ....2 Thes 2.... so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God. What you are saying is that the man of lawlessness, the son of destruction, 4who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship...took a seat in the christians "living stone" temple???? You need to really think about this.

 

[CrowCross]

But the destruction of Jerusalem was called the fulfillment of all the wrath predicted to fall upon Israel in Lk 21

OK???? So what?

and I Th 2.

I didn't see it there so I assume you made a typo.

When you read Mt 24A and realize that it copies many lines from Mt 10 and is truly meant to be about that generation, you can see why the superlatives would be used. In addition it was the 70th week of Daniel where destruction (on Israel) would come like a 'dabar' (a Genesis flood, not an annual flood).

I must have missed it again when I re-read Mt 10.

Surely you realize that there is a hermeneutic issue about when the NT refers to the whole world and when merely to Israel. Mt 24 is an important study on that, because after v29 the scope and setting is worldwide (four corners of earth). But before v29 ("A") it is confined to Israel.

This is why I teach a delay doctrine. B is expected "right after" A just as Rom 2 has portrayed (first the Jew and then the Gentile). But there is a delay of the wrath on the Gentiles, which is why 2 Peter 3 was written--to explain why. And 2 P 3 is clearly world-wide is scope and setting.

If a person does not proceed with a delay between Mt 24A and B, everything is chaos: the Judean scope of 24A is lost, the unity of Dan 9 is lost, the history of the destruction is lost, the normal sense of the text is lost.

There is a delay...a delay between the 69th week and the 70 week. We are currently in that delay. In my opinion we are very close to the end of that delay.

 

[3 Resurrections]

They had glorified bodies???? OK, if you say so.

Anyone bodily raised to life in the OT and NT were in glorified bodies. The power of the Holy Spirit which it takes to perform this renders that dead physical body into a "changed" immortal and incorruptible condition. We are not talking resuscitations here. It is appointed unto mankind ONCE to die - not twice (Hebrews 9:27-28). Once raised to life again, that living, glorified condition is never forfeited by having to die again. "Neither CAN they die anymore..." If you open the door to an individual having to die more than once, then Christ's death and resurrection is also in doubt, and we know for certain that "death has no more dominion" over Christ. Humanity's resurrection status is as secured as that of Christ.

The bible mentions a third temple that the anti-christ ....2 Thes 2.... so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God. What you are saying is that the man of lawlessness, the son of destruction, 4who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship...took a seat in the christians "living stone" temple???? You need to really think about this.

No, I am saying that the "Man of Lawlessness" was a first-century Zealot leader (Menahem) who got into the temple with his armed supporters in AD 66, presenting himself as the "King of the Jews" - a title only Christ the Lord could claim. This was at the beginning of the Great Tribulation period which lasted from AD 66-70.

This so-called "landslide" is nothing compared to what the bible mentions. Maybe you ought to go read the description again.

I have. Many times. The scripture says that the Mount of Olives would break apart in all directions with an earthquake that was just like the one in King Uzziah's day. Rubble filled the Kidron Valley on that occasion also, as it did once again in the top 40' layer archaeologically dated to the first century.

Rev 13.

Revelation 13 does not describe a coming "New World Order" for us. It is all ancient history.

 

[EarlyActs]

OK???? So what?

I didn't see it there so I assume you made a typo.


I must have missed it again when I re-read Mt 10.

There is a delay...a delay between the 69th week and the 70 week. We are currently in that delay. In my opinion we are very close to the end of that delay.

The superlative wrath on Israel was the destruction of the country 66--72. That's what 'never before seen' in Mt 24 means. Likewise the 'complete fulfillment of all that is written' in Lk 21. And with those being true, how could Dan 9 not be completed then?

The Rev says it is about things happening very soon, twice on its first page. And definitely Judaic-oriented. It's about that event.

 

[EarlyActs]

OK???? So what?

I didn't see it there so I assume you made a typo.


I must have missed it again when I re-read Mt 10.

There is a delay...a delay between the 69th week and the 70 week. We are currently in that delay. In my opinion we are very close to the end of that delay.

re I Th 2
"On them God's wrath has come completely" for their opposition to the mission to the nations, which is ongoing in the 1st century. We need to pin Paul's statements down to his times. We need to stop flying off X000 years when we feel excited or feel like it. The first question is always: what did this mean right then?

 

[EarlyActs]

OK???? So what?

I didn't see it there so I assume you made a typo.


I must have missed it again when I re-read Mt 10.

There is a delay...a delay between the 69th week and the 70 week. We are currently in that delay. In my opinion we are very close to the end of that delay.

Re Mt 10 and 24
If you have not worked out your own study of this, you are a beginner student in these things.

17 Be on your guard; you will be handed over to the local councils and be flogged in the synagogues. 18 On my account you will be brought before governors and kings as witnesses to them and to the Gentiles. 19 But when they arrest you, do not worry about what to say or how to say it. At that time you will be given what to say, 20 for it will not be you speaking, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you.

21 “Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; children will rebel against their parents and have them put to death. 22 You will be hated by everyone because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 23 When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

34 “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn

“‘a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—
36 a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.’[c]
37 “Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38 Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39 Whoever finds their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life for my sake will find it.

With so many of these repeated in 24A, we must see that 24A is 1st cent. Judean as well.

It would be best to read the NT historically and stop being blinded by 'wanting to know the future.' There are a few things just about the distant future, but not much. Most of the drama is the cataclysm of 1st cent. Judea for not becoming missionaries to the nations. See my book M. Sanford THE COVENANT REVOLT. Amazon. 2023.

 

[CrowCross]

Anyone bodily raised to life in the OT and NT were in glorified bodies. The power of the Holy Spirit which it takes to perform this renders that dead physical body into a "changed" immortal and incorruptible condition. We are not talking resuscitations here. It is appointed unto mankind ONCE to die - not twice (Hebrews 9:27-28). Once raised to life again, that living, glorified condition is never forfeited by having to die again. "Neither CAN they die anymore..." If you open the door to an individual having to die more than once, then Christ's death and resurrection is also in doubt, and we know for certain that "death has no more dominion" over Christ. Humanity's resurrection status is as secured as that of Christ.

The bible doesn't say Lazarus was raised in a glorified body. You might, but the bible doesn't.

No, I am saying that the "Man of Lawlessness" was a first-century Zealot leader (Menahem) who got into the temple with his armed supporters in AD 66, presenting himself as the "King of the Jews" - a title only Christ the Lord could claim. This was at the beginning of the Great Tribulation period which lasted from AD 66-70.

You're grasping at straws now.....You said the christian was the "3rd temple"....which means the antichrist sat down in them and warred against God. Now you seem to be backpedaling when a major flaw to your theology is exposed.

I have. Many times. The scripture says that the Mount of Olives would break apart in all directions with an earthquake that was just like the one in King Uzziah's day. Rubble filled the Kidron Valley on that occasion also, as it did once again in the top 40' layer archaeologically dated to the first century.

Keep trying....once again the description in the bible topples your "theology".

Revelation 13 does not describe a coming "New World Order" for us. It is all ancient history.

Rev 13 describes a one world government....as well as a one world religion. In todays terms it is described as the NWO. You really ought to beef up on what the World economic Forum is striving towards.

 

[CrowCross]

The superlative wrath on Israel was the destruction of the country 66--72. That's what 'never before seen' in Mt 24 means. Likewise the 'complete fulfillment of all that is written' in Lk 21. And with those being true, how could Dan 9 not be completed then?

The Rev says it is about things happening very soon, twice on its first page. And definitely Judaic-oriented. It's about that event.

I don't deny the 2nd temple was destroyed.....But, the timing is off considering the 69th week ended when Jesus was cut off. Add one "week", 7 years to the crucification and your date is early for the destruction of the 2nd temple.

 

[CrowCross]

re I Th 2
"On them God's wrath has come completely" for their opposition to the mission to the nations, which is ongoing in the 1st century. We need to pin Paul's statements down to his times. We need to stop flying off X000 years when we feel excited or feel like it. The first question is always: what did this mean right then?

This wrath is like the world has never seen or will ever see again? Matt 24:21.

 

[CrowCross]

See my book M. Sanford THE COVENANT REVOLT. Amazon. 2023.

All I have to do is read the bible rather than some false opinion.

When has this happened? 8Then the second angel sounded his trumpet, and something like a great mountain burning with fire was thrown into the sea. A third of the sea turned to blood, 9a third of the living creatures in the sea died, and a third of the ships were destroyed.

 

[3 Resurrections]

The bible doesn't say Lazarus was raised in a glorified body. You might, but the bible doesn't.

Lazarus never died twice. That is impossible, according to the one-time-only death appointment for all men in Hebrews 9:27-28.

You're grasping at straws now.....You said the christian was the "3rd temple"....which means the antichrist sat down in them and warred against God. Now you seem to be backpedaling when a major flaw to your theology is exposed.

I'm afraid you are misunderstanding my point. We as believers scripture says are "being built up an holy temple unto the Lord". We are called "living stones", with Christ as the chief cornerstone foundation. A spiritual temple.

Zerubbabel's temple with Herod's later renovations was the second physical temple. There will be no third physical temple rebuilt, because the spiritual temple has replaced the physical temple which was torn down to the last stone in AD 70.

It was Herod's second temple still standing in AD 66 which the Man of Lawlessness entered, presenting himself as the "King of the Jews". Paul reminded the Thessalonians of the fact that he had told them in person who was restraining that Man of Lawlessness in their days. The Thessalonian church knew who both the restrainer and the Man of Lawlessness were at the time, because Paul had told them about the identity of those first-century individuals.

Rev 13 describes a one world government.

Yes, it certainly does. It was the ancient Roman empire phase of the Sea Beast as of the time John was writing Revelation which was going to make war against the saints. That persecution of the saints under Nero for 42 months lasted from AD 64 until the year of Nero's death. It was one of the major periods of tribulation which Christ had predicted for His disciples when they would be "hated of all men for my name's sake".

We know the Sea Beast was related to ancient Rome because Revelation 13:2 said that Satan gave His throne (in Pergamos) to the Sea Beast, along with great authority. That throne of Satan in idol-worshipping Pergamos (Revelation 2:13) was given to the Roman Republic in 133 BC by the last dying king of the Pergamos kingdom in Asia. Attalus III had no heir to whom he could bequeath his kingdom, so in his will recorded in the Roman Senate, he gave his kingdom and its altar throne in Pergamos to his ally, the Roman Republic. This identifies the Sea Beast as being connected with ancient Rome - not a "one-world government" in our future.

 

[EarlyActs]

OK???? So what?

I didn't see it there so I assume you made a typo.


I must have missed it again when I re-read Mt 10.

There is a delay...a delay between the 69th week and the 70 week. We are currently in that delay. In my opinion we are very close to the end of that delay.

The delay.
There is no justification for delaying the 70th week. The sequence is already split at the 7th! So why should modern know it alls come along say the 70th is delayed from the 69th. The description of Dan 9 is exactly about the 1st century, given that the whole final generation is what matters.

If it is broken, then you will have pastors, who are otherwise sensible, saying things like 'there are 2 atonements by Christ'. That in itself should trigger huge alarm bells in us!

I've prob written on Dan 9 here but if you need a summary, let me know. It is also in bothe THE ENTHRONED KING and THE COVENANT REVOLT.

The delay I refer to was substantial enough that 2 Peter 3 covered it.

I don't deny the 2nd temple was destroyed.....But, the timing is off considering the 69th week ended when Jesus was cut off. Add one "week", 7 years to the crucification and your date is early for the destruction of the 2nd temple.

Unless the generation is the way of God allowing Israel to change--like the generation after the idolatry. Are things supposed to be exact? Well, smack in the middle is "the end (of the nation) will come like a flood" (dabar). Forceful? Yes. Exact? No.