I have an issue with the label on Revelation chapter 17 & 18 as being a judgment on the "World System". That is not the entire world being judged in Revelation 17 & 18. It was specifically Old Jerusalem the "harlot" being judged for her unfaithfulness and her persecution and killing of the saints and prophets throughout the generations. Jesus made that point when He mourned over Jerusalem, saying, "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets and stonest them which are sent unto thee..." (Matthew 23:37). Christ said that Jerusalem and that specific first-century generation living at that time would be held accountable for all the righteous blood of those slain on the earth ever since Abel.Any comments?
I have an issue with the label on Revelation chapter 17 & 18 as being a judgment on the "World System". That is not the entire world being judged in Revelation 17 & 18. It was specifically Old Jerusalem the "harlot" being judged for her unfaithfulness and her persecution and killing of the saints and prophets throughout the generations. Jesus made that point when He mourned over Jerusalem, saying, "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets and stonest them which are sent unto thee..." (Matthew 23:37). Christ said that Jerusalem and that specific first-century generation living at that time would be held accountable for all the righteous blood of those slain on the earth ever since Abel.
And I presume the "1-4 World Federations" which you have linked with Revelation chapter 6 & 7 are an interpretation of the 4 colored horses? Please correct me if I am misunderstanding your connection.
But Jesus said that this accusation of killing the saints and the prophets applied to Old Jerusalem when He was mourning over the city in Matthew 23:34-37. This very same accusation was made against the "great city" in Revelation 17:6 and & 18:24. Same accusation - same city.None of those descriptions apply in full to Old (or new) Jerusalem.
Yes amen revelation 18:24 ties directly to Matthew 23:35Yes, you read that correctly. God the Father said He would bring the Lord`s enemies to His footstool, for judgment, (Ps. 110: 1 Ps. 2: 1 - 3).
Then in Zech. 6: 5 we read of the four great spirits that God sends out into all the world to bring judgment,
while the prophet Daniel was given a description of these 4 great kingdom/Federations that God will judge just before He sets up His millennial kingdom rule. (Dan. 7)
`And in her was found the blood of the prophets and saints, and ALL who were slain on the earth.` (Rev. 18: 24)Yes amen revelation 18:24 ties directly to Matthew 23:35
So wouldn’t all the righteous killed be apart of all killed?`And in her was found the blood of the prophets and saints, and ALL who were slain on the earth.` (Rev. 18: 24)
`That on you (Israel) may come ALL THE RIGHTEOUS BLOOD shed on the earth...` (Matt. 23: 35)
Big difference there - Rev. all who were slain, while Matt. is all the righteous slain.
I’m a partial preterist who is also amilI see here we have one premill ( for the most part, ) all in the future after the church is gone; one Preterist ( historical view ); when the truth is found in the amill idealist teachings!
I see the tribulation as being chiefly for the Jews....but it will affect the world...as the world comes against the Jews.I have an issue with the label on Revelation chapter 17 & 18 as being a judgment on the "World System". That is not the entire world being judged in Revelation 17 & 18. It was specifically Old Jerusalem the "harlot" being judged for her unfaithfulness and her persecution and killing of the saints and prophets throughout the generations. Jesus made that point when He mourned over Jerusalem, saying, "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets and stonest them which are sent unto thee..." (Matthew 23:37). Christ said that Jerusalem and that specific first-century generation living at that time would be held accountable for all the righteous blood of those slain on the earth ever since Abel.
And I presume the "1-4 World Federations" which you have linked with Revelation chapter 6 & 7 are an interpretation of the 4 colored horses? Please correct me if I am misunderstanding your connection.
The problem I have with the Preterist is that much of what has been prophesied in Rev. hasn't happened yet.And I'm a Preterist posting here (but not from the Historicist position).
I, too, see the tribulation as being chiefly for the Jews - but only for the first-century generation. The "days of vengeance" came in judgment for the curse which the Jewish leaders had called down on their own heads and that of their children. "His blood be on us and on our children", was their oath. God heard and fulfilled His judgment for that oath - but for that generation only. His "vengeance" for the betrayal and murder of His Son was finished by the close of the AD 70 events.I see the tribulation as being chiefly for the Jews....but it will affect the world...as the world comes against the Jews.
John told us how to interpret his visions in his introduction as well as in his conclusion. Everything prophetic of future things "about to be hereafter" (Rev. 1:19) between Revelation 1:3 and Revelation 22:10 John said were "at hand", or present for that time when John was writing those visions.The problem I have with the Preterist is that much of what has been prophesied in Rev. hasn't happened yet.
I disagree. As I have stated previously what Revelation describes hasn't happened yet.I, too, see the tribulation as being chiefly for the Jews - but only for the first-century generation.
No, that's YOUR interpretation. As I have said...what is mentioned in Rev is still future. We have not seen the destruction of 1/3 of the plants, seas etc...We have not seen the mark of the beast....we have not seen the two witnesses...and many other things described in Revelations.John told us how to interpret his visions in his introduction as well as in his conclusion. Everything prophetic of future things "about to be hereafter" (Rev. 1:19) between Revelation 1:3 and Revelation 22:10 John said were "at hand", or present for that time when John was writing those visions.
The only exceptions are the prophecies which the 7 thunders uttered in Revelation 10:4, which John was forbidden to write down, and which were "sealed up" for times in the far future to John's immediate situation.
You either believe John's own stated time limitations for his visions, or you don't.
It's not my interpretation. It's John's. Those things you listed have all been historically fulfilled in real time with dates included. Subjects for a different post, of course.No, that's YOUR interpretation. As I have said...what is mentioned in Rev is still future. We have not seen the destruction of 1/3 of the plants, seas etc...We have not seen the mark of the beast....we have not seen the two witnesses...and many other things described in Revelations.
It's your interpretation about what you think John is saying.It's not my interpretation. It's John's.
in the "overview of the tribulation"....historical events past present and future events as they relate to the Book of Revelation are on topic.Those things you listed have all been historically fulfilled in real time with dates included. Subjects for a different post, of course.
John's language is very specific. A prophecy which is "AT HAND" is already present in the days of those who first read that prophecy. God Himself gave a lengthy definition of this "AT HAND" term all the way back in Ezekiel 12:21-28. "At hand" prophecies are fulfilled in the days of the ones who first receive that prophecy. God said they are not "prolonged" into "times that are far off". God speaks the "at hand" prophecy", and then performs it in the days of those who are first given that prophecy.It's your interpretation about what you think John is saying.