Young Earth/Old Earth

[Wordsmith]

Jeremiah 4: 23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.

24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.

25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.

26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the Lord, and by his fierce anger.

27 For thus hath the Lord said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.

28 For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black; because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it. Anyone care to tackle this passage?

 

[civic]

Point to ponder. Where in the time line of Genesis did satan rebel against God?

speculation since it does not say and why does it matter ?

we know it was after the 6th day of creation since everything God created was good. evil and sin did not exist prior to the days of creation.

 

[Wordsmith]

speculation since it does not say and why does it matter ?

we know it was after the 6th day of creation since everything God created was good. evil and sin did not exist prior to the days of creation.

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

It only matters to the topic of this thread. In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. It very well could be that there were billions of years between verse 1 and verse 2.

When did God create heaven and all of its heavenly hosts? IMHO I find highly unlikely God created satan, Lucifer or whatever you choose to call him and rebelled and convinced one third of the angels to follow him within the first week of his creation.

Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Who is the "us" and "our" of verse 26 if not the heavenly host already in existence when man was created?

Actually the physical earth could have been created billions of years before verse 3.

The first time God said it was good was verse 4 and that referred to the specifics of verse 4 not anything previously. Even though satan before he rebelled was good and by his prideful choice became evil.

 

[civic]

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

It only matters to the topic of this thread. In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. It very well could be that there were billions of years between verse 1 and verse 2.

When did God create heaven and all of its heavenly hosts? IMHO I find highly unlikely God created satan, Lucifer or whatever you choose to call him and rebelled and convinced one third of the angels to follow him within the first week of his creation.

Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Who is the "us" and "our" of verse 26 if not the heavenly host already in existence when man was created?

Actually the physical earth could have been created billions of years before verse 3.

The first time God said it was good was verse 4 and that referred to the specifics of verse 4 not anything previously. Even though satan before he rebelled was good and by his prideful choice became evil.

Gen 1:26- the us and our is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit- not the angels since man was created in the image and likeness of God, not the angels.

The rest is nothing but speculation. I do not base my beliefs upon speculation.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Sparrow]

speculation since it does not say and why does it matter ?

we know it was after the 6th day of creation since everything God created was good. evil and sin did not exist prior to the days of creation.

The passage from Jeremiah matters because there Has never been a time in this earth age when there was no light in the heavens and no man.
Therefore, Jeremiah must be speaking of a time before the creation of man—a time when God was displeased, so much so that He shook His beautiful and perfect creation, and removed every single person from it.

 

[civic]

The passage from Jeremiah matters because there Has never been a time in this earth age when there was no light in the heavens and no man.
Therefore, Jeremiah must be speaking of a time before the creation of man—a time when God was displeased, so much so that He shook His beautiful and perfect creation, and removed every single person from it.

Or it’s prophetic ?

 

[Wordsmith]

Gen 1:26- the us and our is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit- not the angels since man was created in the image and likeness of God, not the angels.

The rest is nothing but speculation. I do not base my beliefs upon speculation.

hope this helps !!!

Not a problem. The topic of this thread is full of speculation but it is of interest to many and has the potential to answer questions about creation. Adam and Eve were not the first to fall. The one who tempted them was the first and our "speculation" is when did that happen. I do not believe God created the serpent in an evil state just to tempt Eve. So that begs the question when did that entity make the choice to rebel against God. IMHO we cannot fit that in the first week of this earth. Heaven could have been created billions of years before . That is my speculation but that speculation is based on other passages of scripture.

 

[Wordsmith]

The passage from Jeremiah matters because there Has never been a time in this earth age when there was no light in the heavens and no man.
Therefore, Jeremiah must be speaking of a time before the creation of man—a time when God was displeased, so much so that He shook His beautiful and perfect creation, and removed every single person from it.

Thank You

 

[Sparrow]

Or it’s prophetic ?

Except that the prophetic end of this earth age will be by fire: 2 Peter 3 :7….But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

 

[CrowCross]

My vote was undecided.

I have many questions about the age of the Earth. One question being,

If the earth is young and created in six literal 24 hour days, and everything seemed to be around a 24-hour period, no indication of anything faster, no hyper speed etc... Then how could Adam name every animal in one 24-hour day, or less assuming he had to sleep?

19 Now out of the ground the Lord God had formed every beast of the field and every bird of the heavens and brought them to the man to see what he would call them. And whatever the man called every living creature, that was its name. 20 The man gave names to all livestock and to the birds of the heavens and to every beast of the field. But for Adam there was not found a helper fit for him. Genesis 2:19-20.

@Sereni-tea Thoughts?

Did Adam name every species of animal or just the "Kind" of animal?

People ask a similar question...how did every species fit on the ark....The answer is every species wasn't on the ark, rather every "Kind" was on the ark.

 

[Sparrow]

Adam and Eve were not the first to fall. The one who tempted them was the first and our "speculation" is when did that happen. I do not believe God created the serpent in an evil state just to tempt Eve. So that begs the question when did that entity make the choice to rebel against God.

Agree… I believe Satan rebelled before the six days of creation… when the earth actually was existing in its perfectly created state. Ezekiel records the story as told to him by God, not only of the rebellion of the “false rock,” Tyre (Satan), but also of his end:

Ezekiel 28: 12-19

“Son of man, take up a lamentation for the king of Tyre, and say to him, ‘Thus says the Lord God:

“You were the seal of perfection,
Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
You were in Eden, the garden of God;
Every precious stone was your covering:
The sardius, topaz, and diamond,
Beryl, onyx, and jasper,
Sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold.
The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes
Was prepared for you on the day you were created.
“You were the anointed cherub who covers;
I established you;
You were on the holy mountain of God;
You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones.
You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created,
Till iniquity was found in you.
“By the abundance of your trading
You became filled with violence within,
And you sinned;
Therefore I cast you as a profane thing
Out of the mountain of God;
And I destroyed you, O covering cherub,
From the midst of the fiery stones.
“Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty;
You corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor;
I cast you to the ground,
I laid you before kings,
That they might gaze at you.
“You defiled your sanctuaries
By the multitude of your iniquities,
By the iniquity of your trading;
Therefore I brought fire from your midst;
It devoured you,
And I turned you to ashes upon the earth
In the sight of all who saw you.
All who knew you among the peoples are astonished at you;
You have become a horror,
And shall be no more forever.” ’ ”

Satan was already a master of deception by the time he met Eve. It was of his own doing—not God’s. He was attempting an early version of a “hostile takeover.” But our God is always a step ahead…

 

[ChristB4us]

My vote was undecided.

I have many questions about the age of the Earth. One question being,

If the earth is young and created in six literal 24 hour days, and everything seemed to be around a 24-hour period, no indication of anything faster, no hyper speed etc... Then how could Adam name every animal in one 24-hour day, or less assuming he had to sleep?

19 Now out of the ground the Lord God had formed every beast of the field and every bird of the heavens and brought them to the man to see what he would call them. And whatever the man called every living creature, that was its name. 20 The man gave names to all livestock and to the birds of the heavens and to every beast of the field. But for Adam there was not found a helper fit for him. Genesis 2:19-20.

@Sereni-tea Thoughts?

You can get different varieties of dogs from a dog and so try to limit the variations within the species to a life kind. Adam would just name it dog.

When God created woman, Adam took one look at her and said "Whoa Man!!!!" And "woman" stuck ever since. <--- Just kidding.

 

[Carbon]

Did Adam name every species of animal or just the "Kind" of animal?

People ask a similar question...how did every species fit on the ark....The answer is every species wasn't on the ark, rather every "Kind" was on the ark.

I have no issue with every animal on the Ark. I can understand that

 

[civic]

Did Adam name every species of animal or just the "Kind" of animal?

People ask a similar question...how did every species fit on the ark....The answer is every species wasn't on the ark, rather every "Kind" was on the ark.

not only that but they could of been young kinds not full grown kinds. God could of also put them in a hibernated state while on the Ark. The bible doesn't state any specifics on feeding, cleaning and all those things that would normally be done with animals. But there was nothing " normal " about the flood, the ark and all the things surrounding the events that took place until the waters resided and they were safe to be on land.

 

[Carbon]

not only that but they could of been young kinds not full grown kinds. God could of also put them in a hibernated state while on the Ark. The bible doesn't state any specifics on feeding, cleaning and all those things that would normally be done with animals. But there was nothing " normal " about the flood, the ark and all the things surrounding the events that took place until the waters resided and they were safe to be on land.

Thats right!

 

[David1701]

Are you a young earth or old earth believer?

I believe in a "young" Earth.

Anyone who believes in an Earth that is, allegedly, billions of years old, has to ditch the creation narrative in Gen. 1-3, and use a rescue mechanism, like the so-called "Gap Theory", or "Day-Age Theory", or treat it as some kind of allegory, or just treat it as a myth. He also has to reject what the Bible says about death and suffering entering the world because of Adam's sin, which means that he undermines the reason for the Cross, the reason why we die physically, the reason for predation amongst animals, and the reason why we all sin.

Believing in an "old Earth" is really incompatible with biblical Christianity; and, any Christians who believe in an "old Earth" either have to be ignorant, or practising cognitive dissonance.

 

[David1701]

Did Adam name every species of animal or just the "Kind" of animal?

There would have been no speciation yet, when Adam named the animals.

People ask a similar question...how did every species fit on the ark....The answer is every species wasn't on the ark, rather every "Kind" was on the ark.

Yes; and, they didn't have to be fully grown.

 

[Musician]

Following the young Earth theory, we should only be able to see light that left other stars within a 6,000 light year distance. Yet we can see the light that left other stars much much further than that. We know the Speed of Light is a thing, that can be easily applied here.

 

[CrowCross]

Following the young Earth theory, we should only be able to see light that left other stars within a 6,000 light year distance. Yet we can see the light that left other stars much much further than that. We know the Speed of Light is a thing, that can be easily applied here.

I can give you several answers to the question...

Did the speed of light change?
Was the light created "in place"?
Was earth onece in a gravatational well while the stars wern't.

According to the bible there was no BB

 

[Inertia]

I can give you several answers to the question...

Hi @CrowCross

"But I, the LORD, make the following promise: I have made a covenant governing the coming of day and night. I have established the fixed laws governing heaven and earth." (Jeremiah 33:25)

Did the speed of light change?

Light propagates through a vacuum at a constant speed regardless of its trajectory in a gravitational field. It is one of the many finely tuned fixed physical constants that God designed with high precision.

That said, it does change when it propagates through optically transparent materials according to Snell's law.

Was the light created "in place"?

That's an interesting question.

The speed of light is related to the vacuum permeability and the vacuum permittivity that originates ("in place") from particle pairs that appear continuously in and out of existence in the vacuum of space.

The relation was discovered long ago by Maxwell in ~ 1864.

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Was earth once in a gravatational well while the stars wern't.

...only if white-hole cosmology is real. No white holes have ever been detected to date.

Quick question: Has Dr. Humphreys modified his models since 1994?

According to the bible there was no BB

Sorry. ^That^ is incorrect. What's real is that the Bible was the first text to mention the so-called "Big Bang". A better name for the phenomenon is the "everywhere stretch" of the universe.

Job 9:8; Isaiah 44:24; and 45:12

"He alone stretches out the heavens and treads on the waves of the sea."

"This is what the LORD says— your Redeemer, who formed you in the womb: I am the LORD, the Maker of all things, who stretches out the heavens, who spreads out the earth by myself,"

"It is I who made the earth and created mankind on it. My own hands stretched out the heavens; I marshaled their starry hosts."

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