Young Earth/Old Earth

[GeneZ]

The point is no one could accuse the case outcome of being the result of an activist liberal judge (even though some people still said that)

I have know a conservative Republican lesbian...

What does that give you?

 

[EarlyActs]

I know of fraud in publishing Darwin. Haeckl's recapitulation theory was published for years and re-oriented Germans before later disproof. I know of suppression of Pellegrini. I know of suppression of Bretz and he knew the elites would be angry (link posted yesterday). We know of science fraud about climate and about covid. We know of fraud about Cassuto at U Toronto about JEPD etc. A geology book sold at national parks in the NW has 50% margins of error when dating things all through. As did Ager. Even further down the line: we know Sanger studied eugenics under C Goethe, a Nazi philosopher, a guest to her in LA. That is how Planned Parenthood got started, with a matching German switcheroo in the name 'kindergarten' for public schools. If people only knew what the term meant during the 3rd Reich, OMG. NASA suppressed Velikovsky for calling it right on Jupiter's radiometrics.

Bretz's breaches were not confined to NE WA. They produced many cubic km of water, and 150M deep temporary dams that backed up material as far south as present Eugene from the Cordilleron.

 

[TB2]

I have know a conservative Republican lesbian...

What does that give you?

I've read the court transcripts myself. ID had a poor showing, did not prove its case, and were essentially shredded to pieces by the other side. The science curricula being pushed as ID was essentially shown to be YEC with a cover change. Word for word YEC material presented as ID.

 

[EarlyActs]

The whole intelligent civilization of bees has always been that.

 

[TB2]

Bretz's breaches were not confined to NE WA. They produced many cubic km of water, and 150M deep temporary dams that backed up material as far south as present Eugene from the Cordilleron.

Stick with the links you posted yesterday

 

[EarlyActs]

Many NW locations have rounded mounds of sediment full of rounded stone. Some are 2000 high. This does not happen without gigantic events.

The Palouse mounds have to have gigantic amounts of water to form them. There are miles of them; there was lots of hydrologic energy at work.

Play with sand at the beach; do the math after you play with it.

 

[EarlyActs]

Stick with the links you posted yesterday

It is a reference to same. I was just re-reading the abstract.

 

[TB2]

It is a reference to same. I was just re-reading the abstract.

The links you gave back up everything I've said about Bretz' Missoula Floods

 

[EarlyActs]

The links you gave back up everything I've said about Bretz' Missoula Floods

"He knew the established scientists would be angry about his views." ??? You said they were all happy puppies.

Why do you call 2500 cubic km of movement stretching to the Pacific a local or even regional flood? Do you think the Cordilleron was in confined sections that melt one at a time? It is all part of a half-continent event and that is part of a global. It doesn't happen any other way. It is not 60 degrees at BC side of the border and 20 on the Alberta side. Sorry, but that is how you sound. I'm pretty tired of it.

 

[TB2]

"He knew the established scientists would be angry about his views." ??? You said they were all happy puppies.

Really? Is that what I said?

 

[EarlyActs]

Here is a description of 30McM (30 million cubic meters) rock on the move with the help of a fall, so not a good comparison. https://interestingengineering.com/science/the-biggest-tsunamis-in-history. But it does create a 1700 ft wave.

But if my math is right, Missoula was about 2,500,000,000,000 cM (2500 cubic kilometers) on the move. Then there is the question of it repeating.

 

[EarlyActs]

Really? Is that what I said?

You said it was the normal give and take of scientists over decades. Not so, says the U Calgary AB article.

 

[EarlyActs]

Here's a history of the Columbia bursting the Cascades. I just don't get communication with you TB, when I basically described this and said I've been finding these summaries for 3 years, you say it was much different from this and can't possibly have the similarity to what Genesis is saying. I just really don't get it. I find these descriptions over and over. They are not from 'Christian' sites! But when I read what you say, the pieces have to be dramatically divorced, splintered, fragmented from each other because of 'studies.'

Columbia River: Description, Creation, and Discovery

www.nwcouncil.org

Toward the end of the last Ice Age, 12,000 to 15,000 years ago, a series of catastrophic floods, perhaps the greatest floods ever in the history of the world, scoured the route of the Columbia through what is now Washington and the Columbia River Gorge. These floods, caused by the repeated failure of an ice dam at the outlet of Glacial Lake Missoula, did not change the route of the Columbia, but did scour its channel, and much of eastern Washington, down to the basalt layers and left the river with a rock-solid channel, in some places deep and steep-walled, laced with dramatic waterfalls.


My Q: what is the hydrological similarity of the AK signage about 'mega-flora to mile deep ice' and the Genesis fountains of the great deep?
TB: Nothing!

 

[GeneZ]

How did Noah's flood destroy the whole earth without having to cover the entire globe?

 

[TB2]

Why do you call 2500 cubic km of movement stretching to the Pacific a local or even regional flood? Do you think the Cordilleron was in confined sections that melt one at a time? It is all part of a half-continent event and that is part of a global. It doesn't happen any other way. It is not 60 degrees at BC side of the border and 20 on the Alberta side. Sorry, but that is how you sound. I'm pretty tired of it.

Well by all means then, let's take a look at your own source links you provided that contradict you and support what I've been telling you all along (and what I'm getting "pretty tired" of repeating myself):

Hey TB2:

​

Bretz knew that the very idea of catastrophic flooding would threaten and anger the geological community. Andrew Macrae, University of Calgary, Department of Geology & Geophysics[1] 1: Ice Age Floods: Study of Alternatives by the U.S. National Park Service

"In recent geological history, portions of the United States have been the site of several massive flooding events caused by the abrupt drainage of glacial lakes. The most dramatic of these events are the Ice Age Floods that covered parts of Montana, Idaho, Washington, and Oregon. [Look at that, NOT half of North America like you claimed and several floods, not one] For a better understanding of the Floods, perhaps a good place to start is to first look at the geological and climatic changes that led up to these cataclysmic floods

At the end of the last Ice Age, a finger of the Cordilleran ice sheet crept southward into the Idaho panhandle, forming a large ice dam that blocked the mouth of the Clark Fork River, creating a massive lake 2000 feet deep and containing more than 500 cubic miles of water. Glacial Lake Missoula stretched eastward for some 200 miles and contained more water than Lake Erie and Lake Ontario combined. When the highest of these ice dams failed, lake water burst through, shooting out at a rate 10 times the combined flow of all the rivers of the world... [An ice dam just as I said blocking Lake Missoula]

This towering mass of water and ice literally shook the ground as it thundered toward the Pacific Ocean, stripping away hundreds of feet of soil and cutting deep canyons—”coulees”—into the underlying bedrock. With flood speeds approaching 65 miles per hour, the lake would have drained in as little as 48 hours...

Over time the Cordilleran ice sheet continued moving south and blocked the Clark Fork River again and again, recreating Glacial Lake Missoula. Over approximately 2,500 years, the lake, ice dam and flooding sequence was repeated dozens of times, leaving a lasting mark on the landscape.... [Multiple floods plural, caused by repeated failure of the ice dam blocking Lake Missoula, just like I said]

Bretz was confident that a flood had occurred, but was unable to figure out where the water had come from. Originally, he proposed that the water was the result of increased runoff from melting glaciers. But even Bretz had a tough time imagining any significant volume of water melting rapidly enough to have such devastating impact. Not until 1930 did Bretz consider Glacial Lake Missoula as the possible source of water he was searching for. But the geologic evidence was elusive, and he did not fully embrace the idea until 1956. Unable to provide a clear, scientific argument for the source of flood water, Bretz went on to other activities.

Bretz lived to the age of 98 and late in life had the satisfaction of seeing his theories validated. Perhaps it is poetic justice that in 1979, Bretz, at the age of 96, received the Penrose Medal, the Geological Society of America’s (GSA) highest award.... [Given the highest award in geology just like I said. Why would fellow scientists recognize him for this if there was an ongoing conspiracy to "censor" him?]

Joseph Thomas Pardee (1871–1960) also played a key role in understanding the story of the Floods. It was Pardee who proposed that the floods Bretz talked about occurred when the ice dam that had formed Glacial Lake Missoula was breached....
Pardee, a geologist with the U.S. Geological Survey, began studying the Scabland region near Spokane, Washington, and the intermountain basins of Montana in 1910. Pardee found geomorphic evidence of a large glacial lake in western Montana; strandlines (high water marks) indicating the maximum height of the lake are clearly visible today in the area around the city of Missoula, Montana. [Well look at that, there's those strandlines I was telling you about that are still visible today in the hills of Missoula Montana; I've seen them myself]

Pardee spent years collecting, analyzing, and documenting other geomorphic evidence, and eventually the scientific community was convinced that Glacial Lake Missoula had indeed existed.

Apparently Pardee and Bretz did communicate over the years, and Pardee suggested that Bretz consider the draining of Glacial Lake Missoula as a possible source of the Floods...

In addition to the ripple marks, Pardee found other evidence of the ice dam failure, including severely scoured constrictions in the lake basin and huge bars of current-transported debris.

Pardee first presented this evidence in 1940 at a meeting of the American Association for the Advancement of Science in Seattle, Washington. His conclusions were later published in the 1942 GSA Bulletin paper titled “Unusual Currents in Glacial Lake Missoula.” Collectively, these papers played a pivotal role in the scientific community’s eventual acceptance of the cataclysmic flooding hypothesis. His work provided, for the first time, a logical source of water needed to support Bretz’s hypothesis. The ripple marks were a key piece of evidence that eventually helped convince skeptics of the cataclysmic-flood hypothesis. [Lake Missoula was the source of multiple regional floods just like I said]

Even after Pardee’s work was made public, acceptance of Bretz’s theories was slow in coming. It took another 20 to 30 years before Bretz’s theory of catastrophic flooding became generally accepted among geologists."

A bit closer, no mastodon.

Maps Showing Inundation Depths, Ice-Rafted Erratics, and Sedimentary Facies of Late Pleistocene Missoula Floods in the Williamette Valley, Oregon

pubs.usgs.gov

Abstract​

Glacial Lake Missoula, impounded by the Purcell Trench lobe of the late Pleistocene Cordilleran Icesheet, repeatedly breached its ice dam, [Wow! Just like I said again!] sending floods as large as 2,500 cubic kilometers racing across the Channeled Scabland and down the Columbia River valley [Just like I said, it did not "crash through" the Cascades but followed the Columbia River Valley gorge and carved it into a canyon] to the Pacific Ocean. Peak discharges for some floods exceeded 20 million cubic meters per second. At valley constrictions along the flood route, floodwaters temporarily ponded behind each narrow zone. One such constriction at Kalama Gap—northwest of Portland—backed water 120-150 meters high in the Portland basin, and backflooded 200 km south into Willamette Valley. Dozens of floods backed up into the Willamette Valley, eroding "scabland" channels, and depositing giant boulder gravel bars in areas of vigorous currents as well as bedded flood sand and silt in backwater areas. Also, large chunks of ice entrained from the breached glacier dam rafted hundreds of "erratic" rocks, leaving them scattered among the flanking foothills and valley bottom. From several sources and our own mapping, we have compiled information on many of these features and depict them on physiographic maps derived from digital elevation models of the Portland Basin and Willamette Valley. These maps show maximum flood inundation levels, inundation levels associated with stratigraphic evidence of repeated floodings, distribution of flood deposits, and sites of ice-rafted erratics. Accompanying these maps, a database lists locations, elevations, and descriptions of approximately 400 ice-rafted erratics—most compiled from early 20th-century maps and notes of A.M. Piper and I.S. Allison."

It is time for you to stop this. Stop trying to make the Missoula Floods into a global flood in contradiction of the geological evidence, what Bretz says himself, and what your source links that you posted yourself say too!!

 

[TB2]

My Q: what is the hydrological similarity of the AK signage about 'mega-flora to mile deep ice' and the Genesis fountains of the great deep?
TB: Nothing!

Correct! No relationship whatsoever because the mega flora in mile deep ice from Greeland you refer to are in what YECs consider to be POST-FLOOD sediments while the fountains of the deep were at the start of the flood

 

[GeneZ]

Moderators!

We need a new section titled- "Biblical Archeology."

 

[GeneZ]

I've read the court transcripts myself. ID had a poor showing, did not prove its case, and were essentially shredded to pieces by the other side. The science curricula being pushed as ID was essentially shown to be YEC with a cover change. Word for word YEC material presented as ID.

Even if the court case was lost?

What justified for this happening?

Listen for at least five minutes to see what was coming down.
Its cancel culture ...

 

[TB2]

Even if the court case was lost?

What justified for this happening?

Listen for at least five minutes to see what was coming down.
Its cancel culture ...

ID tried to promote Judeo-Christian religion (under the guise of science) in a public school district and got caught. The evidence was overwhelming and indisputable

 

[GeneZ]

ID tried to promote Judeo-Christian religion (under the guise of science) in a public school district and got caught. The evidence was overwhelming and indisputable

They should have just stuck to Intelligent Design alone by using logic.

Emotional religious people lack a certain sense.