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Young Earth/Old Earth

Young Earth or Old Earth

  • Young

    Votes: 19 59.4%
  • Old

    Votes: 11 34.4%
  • Never thought about it

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I dont know

    Votes: 1 3.1%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 1 3.1%

  • Total voters
    32
Notice how many of the prehistoric animals were massive in size compared to what we see in our creation?

It might explain whey when the angels procreated with human women in Genesis 6, that what was produced were giants.

For the prehistoric creation was created in scale for the angels to work in......
 
GO TO THE LINK I GAVE YOU! (And this example I already discussed extensively on this thread about three pages back!)

I would like to say somethings... But? Can't copy and paste anything to comment on with that giant sized billboard
you put in my face. Its some format that can not be copied and pasted, not quoted.

And, when viewed on my home computer it looks like my car brakes were failing till I got inches from that giant sign.

Its too in your face to concentrate on that way.
 
True, but it still ultimately has to be "dumbed down" (don't know if you got that far in the post on that where I give an example and how even trying to "update" Genesis to modern science like with light reflection of the sun off the moon would still require us "dumbing down" to statements that are technically scientifically inaccurate"

Its mainly dumbed down in translation only. The Hebrew can be technical and specific in meaning, whereas what we see in translation is like conversing with a ten year old child.

You want to see Genesis exegeted in detail and much exactness?

You are not going to find it in English translations, nor for yourself in the Hebrew if you have not studied Hebrew extensively for many years.

God has provided for those who seek to know.

Who knows? He may even raise up a genius who can speak down to earth to the intelligent believer who finds most things being taught are boring him to tears...
 
Hey TB2:
Bretz knew that the very idea of catastrophic flooding would threaten and anger the geological community. Andrew Macrae, University of Calgary, Department of Geology & Geophysics[1]

1: Ice Age Floods: Study of Alternatives by the U.S. National Park Service
 
Its mainly dumbed down in translation only. The Hebrew can be technical and specific in meaning, whereas what we see in translation is like conversing with a ten year old child.
Not referring to the Hebrew, referring to the fact that God doesn't bother correcting the inaccurate prescientific views of the time, but communicates through them because this is what they understand (Divine Accommodation).

Also, here is a copy-paste of concordist objection that gives the context of the "dumbing down" point:

Answering the Concordist Objection: the main objection to all this is that it attacks divine inspiration and makes God a liar. First, I agree with concerns about people using this to reject Scripture as authoritative. So, let's state up front that in no way are we endorsing that. We believe Scripture is divinely inspired and remains authoritative. But what about the accusation that it still makes God a liar? To this I say, concordists haven't thought this all the way through. Even if God gave us a "perfectly" accurate MODERN scientific account of creation it still would have to be communicated through imperfect human language and it would still have to be dumbed-down to our level.

For example, the concordist might argue that God could have easily explained that the moon is not a "lesser light" source, but reflects light. And to make the scientific concordist happy, God could even state it in scientific terms like this college textbook type definition of reflection: "when the [electromagnetic] waves encounter a surface or other boundary that does not absorb the energy of the radiation and bounces the waves away from the surface."

But here's the problem: even if God wrote Genesis in these terms, guess what? It would still be scientifically inaccurate and erroneous. Light does not "bounce" off the lunar surface or even a mirror. An accurate understanding of the physics of light reflection requires expertise in quantum electrodynamics, and that still doesn't fully explain it.

As a science teacher, I am acutely aware of the problem. Science teachers strive to be as accurate as we possibly can, but can never fully be so. We always end up having to "dumb it down" (for lack of a better expression) to the academic level of a given student audience (Don't parents do the same thing with their children when asked why the sky is blue? Or do they launch into a quantum level explanation of electron excitation and photon emission of light absorption and selective scattering of visible light in the blue range?). It is unavoidable. It is impossible to be "perfectly" accurate on the hand, while communicating in a way that your audience will understand. Otherwise it will be "over students' heads" and they end up learning nothing but frustration. It is unavoidable. As teachers, we have to use simplified, imprecise definitions, generalized examples that don't account for all the exceptions, artificial categories and classifications that don't exist in reality to organize facts for ease of learning, inaccurate analogies and story-telling; and make connections to science fiction, fantasy, and social-cultural norms and conventions and common sayings and idioms; fashion and music and social media and entertainment and sports and so on, not because those things have any real relationship to the scientific knowledge in a given lecture, but because students better understand and relate to such things, and the brain learns best in the context of prior knowledge by relating new information to what it already knows and understands.

Is this "lying"? Is it lying to *accommodate* your audience's level of understanding? Is it lying to use poor, inaccurate analogies like the "Greenhouse Effect" to explain differential absorption and re-radiation of solar energy by certain atmospheric gases? Greenhouse gases don't *trap* heat like a greenhouse. That is completely false. Does that make teachers liars for using this flawed analogy? Some times it's just the best way to communicate. I know light doesn't "bounce" off surfaces, but I don't know of a better way to communicate a *factual* definition of light reflection that students would understand.

You see, I don't think concordists have thought this through. They require that God give "perfectly" accurate scientific information, and yet if God actually did, none of us would have the capacity to understand it!

"Dumbing down" to your audience is not lying. It is effective communication. It is the only way we can effectively communicate: we have to communicate in terms the target audience can understand and relate to. And what better way for us to understand God than "the Word became flesh and dwelt among us."
 
I would like to say somethings... But? Can't copy and paste anything to comment on with that giant sized billboard
you put in my face. Its some format that can not be copied and pasted, not quoted.

And, when viewed on my home computer it looks like my car brakes were failing till I got inches from that giant sign.

Its too in your face to concentrate on that way.
Are you on a computer/laptop? I don't know why the computer resizes things to gigantic size but it should be normal size when viewed on phone
 
Are you on a computer/laptop? I don't know why the computer resizes things to gigantic size but it should be normal size when viewed on phone

Perhaps? It looks normal size? Because, a phone screen is? "Tiny."

And, what is posted in that size can not be copied and pasted from.

The regular part of your post I can highlight - copy - and then paste.
 
It was reasoned out to fit a desired outcome.

I did not read much after I sensed there was a need to prove an agenda's perspective.
Is there an epidemic of hand waving today? Lol. Yes, it's a long read but hardly agenda driven (and I gave a link to the technical paper supported by 400 citations!).

But you obviously didn't read enough or in depth, because if you had you would be singing the praises of how the article refutes Dawkins' selfish gene, and refutes 'junk DNA' and basically supports every main criticism of YECs against gradualism and Neodarwinism/Modern Synthesis, and explains why natural selection & random mutations do NOT explain evolution. The article effectively supports the main arguments AGAINST evolution!

"Evolution without Accidents"
 
At least I don't think the mastodon reference was a football joke!
 
Is there an epidemic of hand waving today? Lol. Yes, it's a long read but hardly agenda driven (and I gave a link to the technical paper supported by 400 citations!).

But you obviously didn't read enough or in depth, because if you had you would be singing the praises of how the article refutes Dawkins' selfish gene, and refutes 'junk DNA' and basically supports every main criticism of YECs against gradualism and Neodarwinism/Modern Synthesis, and explains why natural selection & random mutations do NOT explain evolution. The article effectively supports the main arguments AGAINST evolution!

"Evolution without Accidents"

Until we find the needed truth that would resolve the void we are wishing to fill, we can often suffer deeply from a condition called 'operation overthink.'

Overthinking keeps us distracted and busy. It becomes a diversion.

Overthinking diverts our mind off of mental pain that happens while seeking for a solution for what has not not been located and secured in our soul.
 
True, but it still ultimately has to be "dumbed down" (don't know if you got that far in the post on that where I give an example and how even trying to "update" Genesis to modern science like with light reflection of the sun off the moon would still require us "dumbing down" to statements that are technically scientifically inaccurate"
The moon still gives us light, even if it is by way of reflection, so it's not inaccurate to say that the moon gives us light at night, just somewhat simplified. It's the old "levels of causation" scenario: what causes the snooker ball to go into the pocket? Is it the God, the snooker player, the cue, the white ball, the laws of physics, etc.?
 
Until we find the needed truth that would resolve the void we are wishing to fill, we can often suffer deeply from a condition called 'operation overthink.'

Overthinking keeps us distracted and busy. It becomes a diversion.

Overthinking diverts our mind off of mental pain that happens while seeking for a solution for what has not not been located and secured in our soul.
Still didn't read the link I see so missing the point
 
The moon still gives us light, even if it is by way of reflection, so it's not inaccurate to say that the moon gives us light at night, just somewhat simplified. It's the old "levels of causation" scenario: what causes the snooker ball to go into the pocket? Is it the God, the snooker player, the cue, the white ball, the laws of physics, etc.?
True, but my point was more that even if God "updated" Genesis and explained in modern scientific terms it would still have to be "dumbed down" to our level. If God gave us truly "perfect" accurate scientific information we would not have the capacity to understand it. Even just the use of imperfect human language requires that God stoop down and accommodate to our level.
 
Still didn't read the link I see so missing the point
I read enough...

Maybe I am wrong, but this is what I gleaned from it.

It covers the mechanics of how organisms genetically change. Yet a horse can not become a dog, nor a cow.

It can not explain how we got the fantastic diversity that we have today in creation.

Darwinism was being rejected because over time even secular science found it easy enough to refute.

That's what I got from reading it.
 
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I read enough.

Darwinism has over time become easy enough to refute, so a new angle was needed for those so inclined to reject the creation account.
There has been a serious push amongst secularism to censor scientist who accept Intelligent Design. Its a spiritual matter.
There is no angle. There is no push. There are no conspiracies (beyond imagined ones). There are thousands of scientific research studies.
 
There is no angle. There is no push. There are no conspiracies (beyond imagined ones). There are thousands of scientific research studies.

I am not saying that it was a push with that intention as its motivation.
That was not what I intended if I came across that way.....

For the research discovered valid and legitimate realities that was not attainable before developments in science opened new doors for exploring genetics.

But, what I am saying, is that the results are now being pushed by some with that intention.

And, over the years there has been a serious push in the scientific community to censor scientists that hold to Intelligent design.




.
 
But, what I am saying, is that the results are now being pushed by some with that intention.

And, over the years there has been a serious push in the scientific community to censor scientists that hold to Intelligent design
I'm less concerned or interested about the politics of the situation and more concerned about the body of scientific evidence. I would also say that there has been no censoring of ID, who can publish peer reviewed research. The real problem was with ID's poor showing during the 2005 Kitzmiller vs Dover case. ID really did a poor job proving/arguing their case (before a conservative Christian Republican Bush-appointed judge, no less!). The evidence clearly demonstrated a religious agenda of ID/the Discovery Institute that was tied to YEC. Thats what effectively "killed" the movement.
 
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