Young Earth/Old Earth

[Inertia]

No. The first verse is the topic and the following verses is about HOW God did it and the earth was not there at all the first day.

Hi ChristB4us.

You and I agree that Genesis 1:1 is the initial passage; however, where I disagree is that the initial passage briefly describes an event. It is not a summary. Unlike Genesis 1:1, Genesis 2:1 is a summary of a series of events that were provided from verses 1 through 31. One summary is sufficient.

About Genesis 1:1 -

The word translated as "created" in English signifies a perfectly complete action in Hebrew (aka Qal Perfect). The sentence as a whole signifies a perfectly complete event with the use of exactly seven words providing another indication of completion. The paradigm here is about the entire Universe up to and including the Earth.

The seven words are:

- In beginning (בְּרֵאשִׁית )

- created (בָּרָא )

- God –Elohim (אֱלֹהִים)

- Object marker (אֵת )

- The heaven(s) ( הַשָּׁמַיִם )

- And + marker (וְאֵת )

- The earth ( הָאָֽרֶץ )

The full sentence reads from right to left :

בְּרֵאשִׁית, בָּרָא אֱלֹהִים, אֵת הַשָּׁמַיִם, וְאֵת הָאָרֶץ.

The word translated as “In beginning” does not refer to an event that transpired in an instant. It is a noun in the absolute state as it carries the same meaning as a noun in English. It is a feminine noun indicating the first phase of a project as it is used in Genesis 10:10.

The Hebrew phrase translated as “the heavens and the Earth” ( הַשָּׁמַיִם, וְאֵת הָאָרֶץ ) uses words that are polar-like in meaning when used separately making the phrase a merism that indicates everything in its totality. Interestingly, the noun shamayim (שָּׁמַיִם), prefixed with “the” (הַ), is plural indicating that there are two heavens. ( The sky and the stars. )

Photons are included within everything that exists - complete with stars planets atoms and molecules.

... scripture were not divided by numbered chapters and verses and so Genesis 1:1 actually ended in Genesis 2:3.

Ah yes, ^here^ is where we agree.

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[TibiasDad]

Well, the fall caused Him to curse the land, too. Who knows what it looked like pre-fall.

I’m assuming weedless, at the very least!

Doug

 

[GeneZ]

Genesis 2:1Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. 2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. 3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Thus the heavens and the earth were completed in all their vast array.

By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work.
Then God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.


God took the old, judged, prehistoric world, and did like someone fixing up and adding new features to an old house before selling it.

...............

 

[Inertia]

I’m assuming weedless, at the very least!

Doug

...and Adam probably observed the Venus fly trap.

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[GeneZ]

So apply Genesis 1:1 as the topic of a paragraph on how God did it in the following verses whereby Genesis 2:1-3 concludes how God did Genesis 1:1 by resting on the seventh day.

What did God rest from? God does not get tired.

Can you tell us from reading your translation?

 

[Carbon]

...and Adam probably observed the Venus fly trap.

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You mean while he was working and caring for the land? Yea, probably

 

[Inertia]

You mean while he was working and caring for the land? Yea, probably

Genesis 2:15

"Then the LORD God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to tend and keep it."

Genesis 2: 19

"Out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the air, and brought them to Adam to see what he would call them. And whatever Adam called each living creature, that was its name."

I can imagine what he was thinking about that pesky mosquito, and then he might have remembered that rather cool plant that he named earlier in the morning. Still, there was a lot of work to be done.

When God warned him about death, Adam didn't need to ask: "What is death?"
He understood very well what death was.

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[ChristB4us]

What do you think this light was?

I have 2 suggestions..Gods shekanah glory....like the light mentioned in Rev 21:23.....And the city has no need of sun or moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and its lamp is the Lamb.

Or, the light from the angels when they were created.

More likely the first one.

When Christ took our sins on the cross, He had experienced that separation from the Father and since He, Himself, was the actual Creator as the Word of God by how all things were made and subsist, the light of the sun at noon and the light of the full moon went out, as an unexplained darkness enveloped the world for three hours.

One secular report that only the stars in the heavens could be seen, mayhap an act of mercy for sailors on the seas.

"Phlegon was a Greek historian who wrote: "In the fourth year of the 202nd Olympiad (i.e., AD 33) there was ‘the greatest eclipse of the sun’ and that ‘it became night in the sixth hour of the day [i.e., noon] so that stars even appeared in the heavens. There was a great earthquake in Bithynia, and many things were overturned in Nicaea.’"1 ~~ end of quote from link below:

Is There Historical Evidence for the Darkness & Earthquake at the Crucifixion?

John 1:1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. 8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. 9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

I do not want to say that Jesus was created because He wasn't. I believe this is a testimony of how Our Creator began creating everything by establishing the very beginning by Himself of what that first day was by its evening and morning that day.

If some wish to argue that Jesus was created at the beginning as that light, then they have to explain why He continued creation as the Creator IF the Father created Him. Since all things were made by the Word of God, then He spoke that light into existence.

Since everything is done at the permissive will of the Father, then "Let there be light" was the Father giving the Word of God permission to be the Creator to establish "the beginning" of creation by His words in creating the first day as there was evening and morning that first 24 hour day.

So I can see that light spoken into existence as the glory of God in creation as He is the Light that lighteth every man that comes into the world per verse 9 and thus the Light that lighteth everything that comes into creation, including that light that established what that first day was.

 

[CrowCross]

More likely the first one.

When Christ took our sins on the cross, He had experienced that separation from the Father and since He, Himself, was the actual Creator as the Word of God by how all things were made and subsist, the light of the sun at noon and the light of the full moon went out, as an unexplained darkness enveloped the world for three hours.

One secular report that only the stars in the heavens could be seen, mayhap an act of mercy for sailors on the seas.

"Phlegon was a Greek historian who wrote: "In the fourth year of the 202nd Olympiad (i.e., AD 33) there was ‘the greatest eclipse of the sun’ and that ‘it became night in the sixth hour of the day [i.e., noon] so that stars even appeared in the heavens. There was a great earthquake in Bithynia, and many things were overturned in Nicaea.’"1 ~~ end of quote from link below:

Is There Historical Evidence for the Darkness & Earthquake at the Crucifixion?

John 1:1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. 8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. 9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

I do not want to say that Jesus was created because He wasn't. I believe this is a testimony of how Our Creator began creating everything by establishing the very beginning by Himself of what that first day was by its evening and morning that day.

If some wish to argue that Jesus was created at the beginning as that light, then they have to explain why He continued creation as the Creator IF the Father created Him. Since all things were made by the Word of God, then He spoke that light into existence.

Since everything is done at the permissive will of the Father, then "Let there be light" was the Father giving the Word of God permission to be the Creator to establish "the beginning" of creation by His words in creating the first day as there was evening and morning that first 24 hour day.

So I can see that light spoken into existence as the glory of God in creation as He is the Light that lighteth every man that comes into the world per verse 9 and thus the Light that lighteth everything that comes into creation, including that light that established what that first day was.

I can't disagree with that.....I was simply looking for sources of light that were not the sun as you know the the sun wasn't created until day 4.

 

[ChristB4us]

I can't disagree with that.....I was simply looking for sources of light that were not the sun as you know the the sun wasn't created until day 4.

I am agreeing with you per your first suggestion as pertaining to the glory of the Lord in creation as lighting everything including the beginning.

Thank you for sharing.

 

[ChristB4us]

Hi ChristB4us.

You and I agree that Genesis 1:1 is the initial passage; however, where I disagree is that the initial passage briefly describes an event. It is not a summary. Unlike Genesis 1:1, Genesis 2:1 is a summary of a series of events that were provided from verses 1 through 31. One summary is sufficient.

Genesis 1:1In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Genesis 2:1Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. 2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. 3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

 

[TibiasDad]

What do you think this light was?

I have 2 suggestions..Gods shekanah glory....like the light mentioned in Rev 21:23.....And the city has no need of sun or moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and its lamp is the Lamb.

Or, the light from the angels when they were created.

I think physical light in whatever sense we may understand it to be. The transcendent world would not be subject to the physics of this world, so the creation of physical light can only be in view here. There was a point where darkness, the total absence of light, was reality, and then God said “Light be!” And there now existed light where there had been no light before.

Neither of the examples you suggested could be the light that was not, and then was, for the glory of God is uncreated and has always been!

Doug

 

[ChristB4us]

Thus the heavens and the earth were completed in all their vast array.

By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work.
Then God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.


God took the old, judged, prehistoric world, and did like someone fixing up and adding new features to an old house before selling it.

...............

There was no old judged prehistoric world as the earth was without for & empty as in non-existent. Plus you would have a hard time explaining where the universe was as if that prehistoric world can exists without it, and yet He created the universe that fourth day as it is written.

By the creation of light that first day was the actual beginning of time as in that very "beginning" with that first day. So nothing was before that first day.

 

[ChristB4us]

What did God rest from? God does not get tired.

Can you tell us from reading your translation?

God rested from having done what He did in Genesis 1:1

 

[CrowCross]

I think physical light in whatever sense we may understand it to be. The transcendent world would not be subject to the physics of this world, so the creation of physical light can only be in view here. There was a point where darkness, the total absence of light, was reality, and then God said “Light be!” And there now existed light where there had been no light before.

Neither of the examples you suggested could be the light that was not, and then was, for the glory of God is uncreated and has always been!

Doug

Could be, but Jesus seemed to switch it on at the Mt. of Transfiguration.

 

[GeneZ]

God rested from having done what He did in Genesis 1:1

There is something specific God rested from. Something that an English translation will typically not allow us to see.

Genesis 2:1-3, has a Hebrew word with a specific meaning.
A meaning which gets buried in a typical English translation.

Thus the heavens and the earth were completed in all their vast array. ​

By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so ​

on the seventh day he rested from all his work. Then God blessed the ​

seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work ​

of creating that he had done."​

The Hebrew word for 'creating' is Bara.
Only God can have this word attributed to Himself in relation to creating something.

God rested from 'bara.' Which means?

​

"In the beginning God created [out from nothing] the heavens and the earth."​

Even on the Sabbath day God creates the circumstances for each day we have.
But, each day is something he makes out from something already in existence. Its not 'bara.'

God never stops creating those circumstances for our lives.
Genesis 2 says, He rested from "bara."

But Jesus answered them, “My Father has been working until now
[He has never ceased working], and I too am working.” John 5:17​

grace and peace .................

 

[TibiasDad]

Could be, but Jesus seemed to switch it on at the Mt. of Transfiguration.

Without doubt, but he didn’t created it, it was revealed. Only that which is temporal need be created. Otherwise, Gen 1:3 is not a creative event.

As an “Old-Earther”, the Big Bang would account for the creation of physical/temporal light, as well as the beginning of “matter”.

Doug

 

[CrowCross]

Without doubt, but he didn’t created it, it was revealed. Only that which is temporal need be created. Otherwise, Gen 1:3 is not a creative event.

I have no problem with revealed.

As an “Old-Earther”, the Big Bang would account for the creation of physical/temporal light, as well as the beginning of “matter”.

Doug

Sticking with the bible....the Big Bang didn't happen. Yes, God spread out the universe but didn't use the BB. This is evidence as the earth pre-daying the stars.

 

[Carbon]

I have no problem with revealed.

Sticking with the bible....the Big Bang didn't happen. Yes, God spread out the universe but didn't use the BB. This is evidence as the earth pre-daying the stars.

You do know the earth is not in the center of the universe right?

 

[CrowCross]

You do know the earth is not in the center of the universe right?

Though I believe the earth is the center...but id not why would it matter?

If you really want to get into it you can go here.
Inertia would enjoy it.