Young Earth/Old Earth

[Carbon]

Yes, probably; but, I'd still like to know where you see death there, because I honestly don't know where you get it from.

Well if God is creating planets and such to mark out days and seasons, doesn't days and seasons prove time? And if there is time, eventually there is death.

Consider all the seed-bearing plants. And Jesus words here, 24 Truly, truly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it bears much fruit. 25 Whoever loves his life loses it, and whoever hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life. 26 If anyone serves me, he must follow me; and where I am, there will my servant be also. If anyone serves me, the Father will honor him. John 12.

 

[civic]

Well if God is creating planets and such to mark out days and seasons, doesn't days and seasons prove time? And if there is time, eventually there is death.

Consider all the seed-bearing plants. And Jesus words here, 24 Truly, truly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it bears much fruit. 25 Whoever loves his life loses it, and whoever hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life. 26 If anyone serves me, he must follow me; and where I am, there will my servant be also. If anyone serves me, the Father will honor him. John 12.

No you would be assuming death when scripture doesn't say there was death before the sin of adam. Time has nothing to do with death, its sin that caused death. Death did not exist prior to adams sin. The sin of the angels didn't cause death as they were only cast out of Gods presence. God did not kill them and cause their death.

 

[Carbon]

No you would be assuming death when scripture doesn't say there was death before the sin of adam. Time has nothing to do with death, its sin that caused death. Death did not exist prior to adams sin. The sin of the angels didn't cause death as they were only cast out of Gods presence. God did not kill them and cause their death.

Thanks for your opinion brother.

I'm quite sure God dosent organize naturally knowing we would assume the obvious and then pull the rug from under our feet.

But if you wish, you go ahead and believe that.

 

[ReverendRV]

Well if God is creating planets and such to mark out days and seasons, doesn't days and seasons prove time? And if there is time, eventually there is death.

Consider all the seed-bearing plants. And Jesus words here, 24 Truly, truly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it bears much fruit. 25 Whoever loves his life loses it, and whoever hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life. 26 If anyone serves me, he must follow me; and where I am, there will my servant be also. If anyone serves me, the Father will honor him. John 12.

Heat Death?

 

[Carbon]

Heat Death?

Heat death?

 

[ReverendRV]

Heat death?

Heat death of the universe - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Carbon]

Heat death of the universe - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Oh okay. Sorry.

 

[ReverendRV]

Heat death of the universe - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

@Inertia

 

[ReverendRV]

Oh okay. Sorry.

When I read what you said, it sounded to me like you were talking about Space-Time. According to the Scientists, the expansion of the Universe means it must die; with or without people in Creation...

 

[Carbon]

When I read what you said, it sounded to me like you were talking about Space-Time. According to the Scientists, the expansion of the Universe means it must die; with or without people in Creation...

Indeed.

 

[ReverendRV]

Indeed.

Inertia can probably clear things up...

 

[Carbon]

Inertia can probably clear things up...

I look forward to what he has to say.

 

[ReverendRV]

I look forward to what he has to say.

It's a good question. Was God stretching out the Heavens before the Creation of Man? Or did God only start stretching out the Heavens at the Fall of Man? In other words, was the Creation heading toward Heat Death before the Fall?

@Inertia

 

[civic]

It's a good question. Was God stretching out the Heavens before the Creation of Man? Or did God only start stretching out the Heavens at the Fall of Man? In other words, was the Creation heading toward Heat Death before the Fall?

@Inertia

I would oppose that view

 

[Carbon]

It's a good question. Was God stretching out the Heavens before the Creation of Man? Or did God only start stretching out the Heavens at the Fall of Man? In other words, was the Creation heading toward Heat Death before the Fall?

@Inertia

I believe once God created the heavens and the earth, (at the very beginning) it was set in expanding mode. And why wouldn't it be?

 

[ReverendRV]

I believe once God created the heavens and the earth, (at the very beginning) it was set in expanding mode. And why wouldn't it be?

Either we were Created as a Steady State Universe, which changed at the Fall to start Conflating; or we were Created as a Conflating Big Bang Universe from Day One...

I think we all would like to hear from Inertia...

 

[Carbon]

Either we were Created as a Steady State Universe, which changed at the Fall to start Conflating; or we were Created as a Conflating Big Bang Universe from Day One...

I think we all would like to hear from Inertia...

In one way, it was a big bang. I mean, one second (if there was such a thing) nothing is there, then the next second BANG! Everything is created, now God ordering and designing.

 

[makesends]

I believe once God created the heavens and the earth, (at the very beginning) it was set in expanding mode. And why wouldn't it be?

One point of view we rarely consider, in our conception of "Reality" is God's supremacy and sovereignty over all fact, which fact HE created. I once asked, in a discussion with some of my believing relatives, if God could not make the universe BE literally billions upon billions of years old, by speaking it into existence. How old was Adam, when God made him? I was immediately assailed with email cat-calls and protests that that would be tantamount to calling God a liar.

We congratulate ourselves on our ingenuity in our notions of time-travel and general relativity, but we can't allow the very Creator of time to manipulate it to his pleasure?

One day we may witness him rolling the whole thing up like a scroll and slipping it into his knapsack.

 

[David1701]

Well if God is creating planets and such to mark out days and seasons, doesn't days and seasons prove time? And if there is time, eventually there is death.

Consider all the seed-bearing plants. And Jesus words here, 24 Truly, truly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it bears much fruit. 25 Whoever loves his life loses it, and whoever hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life. 26 If anyone serves me, he must follow me; and where I am, there will my servant be also. If anyone serves me, the Father will honor him. John 12.

Time, yes; there's no problem with that; however, time itself does not lead to death. Death came by sin and sin leads to the degeneration of our bodies.

The grain of wheat does not die, in the sense that we are discussing. From inside it sprouts the plant, using the nutrients from within the seed, to start its growth. Those nutrients are quickly used up, by the growing plant. This is part of the plant reproduction process created by the Lord, but it's certainly not death in the same way that our bodies gradually develop more and more errors, so that they cease to function correctly, and, eventually, altogether.

The analogy that Jesus uses, in the passage you quoted, is about dying to self, not dying physically (although it could result in that). It's about putting Jesus first and being willing to give up everything in this life for him

 

[David1701]

Heat Death?

Won't happen - the Lord said a fire, not a flood next time.

Well Well Well - The Seekers