Which person in the Trinity is the Judge?

[Eleanor]

There is one God manifest as three only according to each respective work in the redemption of God's elect. So, it is always the Father that does the sending~and btw, Jesus is the everlasting father per Isaiah 9:6.
Really? Are you sure?
Acts 13:2
“As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.”
Of course, God is a Spirit that dwells in eternity, always has, always will~He has begotten a Son for the sole purpose of making him the surety of his elect.
I see on this forum three classes of people debating this subject of the Mystery of godliness~Those they reject Jesus' deity as God manifest in the flesh~those who teach in the eternal Sonship doctrine, and myself, who holds to the incarnate Sonship of Jesus Christ. Maybe there more, but I do not think so, this generally covers all bases of the controversy in the professing religion on the teaching of the Godhead.

You didn't answer my question. . .

 

[Red Baker]

You didn't answer my question. . .

No I did not not, I went back to the lake and heading back up this morning again where the family is. I'll go back and read your post again to see if time will allow me to answer this morning. But, I'm not going to continue to go back and forth over what is becoming arguing over semantics.

If I remember you did not address Isaiah 48:16~which I will again go over that verse more in depth for your consideration. But, if you continue to hold to the eternal Sonship doctrine and refuse to let that doctrine go, then the problem you may have with me is from that doctrine which will not allow you to even consider what I'm saying.

I'll go and read your post again carefully, to see if there is anything I may be missing, that I need to consider, even though this doctrine I have for many years ponder, taught, and debated, etc.

 

[Red Baker]

One more time. . .the Holy Spirit never sends anyone from the Godhead.

Assuming your point is ~from the the Godhead.

As they would say~Houston, we have a problem.

Eleanor, God is a Spirit, before he ever became a Father in time! There is only one Spirit in the Godhead, not two, three, etc. Your statement is actually an oxymoron (no pun intended) statement! One Spirit in the Godhead who became a father in time! Why add to this truth? To protect one's doctrine of the unscriptural position of the eternal Sonship position? I think so.

You never responded to: Isaiah 48:16~“Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.”

This verse is a prophesy that I used to show one God manifest as three to us ~ who sent Jesus Christ into this world. Before Genesis 1:1 there was only ONE GOD, period, three only by prophesy according to the work assigned to each, to each, as we are able to comprehend meaning of words and how they function. This one God was a Spirit, period..... who inhabited eternity, by himself, with no beginning and shall have no end, eternal both ways.

So, your statement~"the Holy Spirit never sends anyone from the Godhead" is an oxymoron statement, knowing God is a Spirit, and was before ever becoming a father in time. God was not a father until Jesus was conceived and born around two thousand years ago according to the testimony of God himself recorded for us in Luke one.

The Son both sends and is sent (from the Godhead)

This is true post his birth, death and resurrection from the dead. But not before, except as the I AM THAT I AM~that sent Moses unto Pharaoh.

The Holy Spirit is only sent (from the Godhead).

That statement is without knowledge, and understanding. The Holy Spirit is God with without qualifications! He's a gift given to us from our God, who sent forth the Spirit of his Son, the Lord Jesus Christ who in his place now dwells within us, since he cannot be with us in person! Galatians 4:6.

The Son is subject to the Father, for the Son is sent by the Father in the Father's name Jn 5:23, 36, 43).

Yes because of his humanity, he is subject.

The Spirit is subject to the Father, for the Spirit is set by the Father in the Son's name (Jn 14:26).

God is a Spirit, and is subject to no one. Your statement is without knowledge of the truth. By being sent is nothing more then the promise that he would come! Always refer to as the Promise of the Spirit. Acts 2:33, etc.

The Spirit is subject to the Son

You are truly going above that which is written~Jesus even in his glorified body as the Godman, throughout eternity WILL be subject unto God who is a Spirit! That God may be all in all.

1st Corinthians 15:28​

“And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.”

 

[Runningman]

You people are debating each other and have no idea what you're talking about. Carry on.

 

[Red Baker]

You people are debating each other and have no idea what you're talking about. Carry on.

Your jesus is another jesus, promoting another gospel, under the power of another spirit.

Jump in and we shall prove this to be so.

 

[Red Baker]

I understand why you refuse to jump in, ands others should know as well.

Matthew 22:46​

“And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions.”

It's a reason why folks remain silence, which you, like your fathers before you did so.

 

[Eleanor]

No I did not not, I went back to the lake and heading back up this morning again where the family is. I'll go back and read your post again to see if time will allow me to answer this morning. But, I'm not going to continue to go back and forth over what is becoming arguing over semantics.

If I remember you did not address Isaiah 48:16~which I will again go over that verse more in depth for your consideration. But, if you continue to hold to the eternal Sonship doctrine and refuse to let that doctrine go, then the problem you may have with me is from that doctrine which will not allow you to even consider what I'm saying.

I'll go and read your post again carefully, to see if there is anything I may be missing, that I need to consider, even though this doctrine I have for many years ponder, taught, and debated, etc.

In the divine eternal Trinity of Father, Son and Holy Spirit, the Son proceeds eternally from the Father, and the Holy Spirit proceeds eternally from both.
Likewise, the Son is sent by the Father, and the Holy Spirit is sent by both.

 

[Rella]

You people are debating each other and have no idea what you're talking about. Carry on.

I do.

And you dont need to.

 

[Eleanor]

Assuming your point is ~from the the Godhead.

As they would say~Houston, we have a problem.

Eleanor, God is a Spirit, before he ever became a Father in time!
There is only one Spirit in the Godhead, not two, three, etc. Your statement is actually an oxymoron (no pun intended) statement! One Spirit in the Godhead who
became a father in time!

The Trinity is eternally Father, Son and Holy Spirit, being all three distinct persons before the incarnation of the Son (Ex 4:22, Dt 32:6, Isa 63:16, 64:8, Jer 3:4, 19, 31:9).

You never responded to: Isaiah 48:16~“Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.”

What response were you expecting?
The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of the Father and of the Son, proceeding from both (Jn 15:26, Rev 22:1) and sent by both (Jn 15:26, 16:7, 14:26).

This verse is a prophesy that I used to show one God manifest as three to us ~ who sent Jesus Christ into this world. Before Genesis 1:1 there was only ONE GOD, period, three only by prophesy according to the work assigned to each, to each, as we are able to comprehend meaning of words and how they function. This one God was a Spirit, period..... who inhabited eternity, by himself, with no beginning and shall have no end, eternal both ways.

So, your statement~"the Holy Spirit never sends anyone from the Godhead" is an oxymoron statement,

Please provide the Scripture which states that either the Father or the Son are sent by the Spirit,
as the Spirit is sent by the Father in the Son's name (Jn 14:26) as well as sent by the Son (Jn 16:7) from the Father (Jn 15:26).

knowing God is a Spirit, and was before ever becoming a father in time. God was not a father until Jesus was conceived

Not according to Ex 4:22, Dt 32:6, Isa 63:16, 64:8, Jer 3:4, 19, 31:9.

 

[Eleanor]

Eleanor, God is a Spirit, before he ever became a Father in time!

The eternal Trinity is without beginning and without end.
The eternal Father, Son and Holy Spirit are without beginning and without end.
The eternal God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are without beginning and without end.

 

[Red Baker]

Not according to Ex 4:22, Dt 32:6, Isa 63:16, 64:8, Jer 3:4, 19, 31:9.

Eleanor, I will address your post as I have time by Tues., Maybe sooner ~ I have some commitments, one is a funeral of a friend that I must attend, plus family members leaving today to head back home.

I did just looked over these scriptures that you provided, and I must say dear sister, you are desparte in trying to support a doctrine that the scriptures will not support, but we will post later in depth. You terribly misused these scriptures, maybe you are quoting from others, I do not know, but either or, they will not give you any support. Later...RB

 

[Red Baker]

In the divine eternal Trinity of Father, Son and Holy Spirit, the Son proceeds eternally from the Father, and the Holy Spirit proceeds eternally from both.
Likewise, the Son is sent by the Father, and the Holy Spirit is sent by both.

Catholicism to the core! Proof?

Nicene Creed​

I believe in one God,

the Father almighty,

maker of heaven and earth,

of all things visible and invisible.

I believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,

the Only Begotten Son of God,

born of the Father before all ages.

God from God, Light from Light,

true God from true God,

begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father;

through him all things were made.

For us men and for our salvation he came down from heaven,

by the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary,

and became man.

For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate,

he suffered death and was buried,

and rose again on the third day

in accordance with the Scriptures.



He ascended into heaven

and is seated at the right hand of the Father.

He will come again in glory

to judge the living and the dead

and his kingdom will have no end.

I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,

who proceeds from the Father and the Son,

who with the Father and the Son, is adored and glorified,

who has spoken through the Prophets.

I believe in one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church.

I confess one Baptism for the forgiveness of sins

and I look forward to the resurrection of the dead

and the life of the world to come. Amen.

Later.....RB

 

[Mr GLee]

Hopefully you will be able to shed some light on my question in the OP.

First, I will give you a context for John 5:22 -

Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son,​

There are similar verses (John 5:27, Acts 10:42, and 17:31).

Now you've asked to define "which judgement or office." Let's look at a few verses and allow the Bible to speak for itself. You have God the Father who has set a specific day. Which is the Son's office and when that particular judgement will occur:

Acts 17:31 For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead.​

​

Romans 2:16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.​

Both of those two Bible verses suggest that God the Father is judging through Son. But yet, we also read that the Father judges no one and appointment the Son to do the judging. And no one knows when that specific day is, not even the Son knows:

Mark 13:32 But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. (or will not make it known Acts 1:7).​

​

Titus 2:13 while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, [John 17:10, Matthew 16:27 (Father's glory); 19:28; 24:30; 25:31-33 (Son's glory); 2 Thessalonians 1:5-10].​

The Son (who is God and man) is the universal judge:

2 Timothy 4:1 In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of his appearing and his kingdom, I give you this charge: (Revelation 20:11-13, Matthew 25:31-46, Acts 10:42).​

I would offer. . The interpretation key.

Both eating food on the Sabbath and calling God his Father

John 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God

The kind of food the apostle's knew not of at first. Having not rightfully divided comparing the unseen spiritual understanding to the same invisible things of God . (faith to faith ) Dying mankind looks on the outside. God works in the heart giving him the meat of his living word

John 4:33-35King James Version Therefore said the disciples one to another, Hath any man brought him ought to eat? Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.

Properly dividing the word is the both "eat and drink" doctrines used in ceremonial laws as parables

Acts 10:41 Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead.

Matthew 11:19 The Son of man came eating and drinking, (doing the will of the invisible Father) and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.

 

[Red Baker]

The Deity of Jesus Christ ~ Written my a close friend of mine.​

For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Colossians 2:9​

Is Jesus God? The Deity of Jesus Christ is the doctrine that Jesus Christ of Nazareth was and is truly God. The so-called Witnesses of Jehovah (groupies of Charles Taze Russell and Judge Rutherford) say Jesus was only a god, though He was actually Jehovah! Muslims say he was only a prophet. Mormons say he was a created spirit brother to Satan. Hindus say, “Who is Jesus?” What do you say?

Jesus asked His apostles, “Whom do men say that I the Son of man am? And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets. He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven” (Matt 16:13-17).

You can only know and believe the truth about Jesus Christ if God reveals Him to you, just like here with Peter, a former fisherman. God must reveal Jesus to you by His Spirit, or you will spend your life in ignorant confusion and heresy like those listed above and the Pharisees of ancient Israel (Luke 10:22; I Cor 12:3). Jesus is God, and the sooner you believe and obey Him the better for you.

Jesus asked the Pharisees, the most conservatives Jews, “What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The Son of David. He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool? If David then call him Lord, how is he his son? And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions” (Matt 22:41-46).

Jesus identified Himself as David’s Lord to these ignorant theologians from their own scriptures (Ps 110:1). Since He truly was the Son of David, biologically through Mary and legally through Joseph, the only way He could also be David’s Lord was to be David’s Creator God. The Pharisees could not answer His divine wisdom and neither can the groups listed above. Can you answer Jesus’ question?

Jesus was no ordinary man. He was not even a special man. He was God in human flesh, as the title text above declares. One of His names was Immanuel, meaning, God with us (Is 7:14; Matt 1:23). Another prophecy by Isaiah called Him, “Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace” (Is 9:6). Jesus is so much God that He was called, The mighty God, and The everlasting Father. There is no question about it – Jesus is fully Jehovah God.

In His human nature, He grew in wisdom and stature and in favor with God and men (Luke 2:52). In His divine nature, or His deity, He created the worlds (Eph 3:9; Heb 1:2). In His human nature He is the only Mediator between God and men (I Tim 2:5). In His divine nature, He is the eternal God (Heb 1:8; John 20:28)

The divine nature of Jesus Christ is the Word of God, Who made all things, and without Him was not anything made that was made (John 1:1-3). In time the Word of God took on a fleshly human nature through the virgin birth of Mary (John 1:14; Luke 1:35; Gal 4:4). Men call this the incarnation, and it is a great mystery of the gospel, which can only be known by scripture and the Holy Spirit (I Tim 3:16).

Without God revealing Jesus, men will say and do terrible things against Him. Paul once observed, “But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory” (I Cor 2:7-8). Do you know the mystery of Jesus?

So great is Jesus Christ, He will sit as Judge of all creatures very soon. He will send some to eternal damnation and others to eternal bliss. The only hope you have as a sinner is to run to Him as God in the flesh and beg Him for mercy, believing all the Bible has to say about Him. It is then your duty to live each day for Him and in light of His soon coming, when you will give an account of your life to Him.

If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ,
let him be Anathema Maranatha.
I Cor 16:22​

 

[Rella]

The eternal Trinity is without beginning and without end.
The eternal Father, Son and Holy Spirit are without beginning and without end.
The eternal God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are without beginning and without end.

Hi Eleanor,

I agree that this is what we Trinitarians believe. the Trinity without beginning and without end.

However, it is with
"The eternal God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are without beginning and without end."

I have a problem.

Do we agree or not that "the SON" was infarct Jesus who was born flesh and blood with Mary being his mother that grew Him within her?

Do we agree or not that back countless millennia and longer the "Word" was also with God at the same time? Not one day before and not one day after? For if we do not agree on this, and others dont, John does and that is all that matters to me because I suspect John was not inspired to write that but learned it from Jesus, Himself....

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 [a]He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. 5 The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not [b]comprehend it.

But have you ever read one single sentence, or even one single word that said that the Word was the son of God, or God was the Word's Father?

I am not asking if God was ever called Father in the Old Testament, Psalms or Proverbs... I am specifically asking if YHWH was ever referred to as the Father of the Word.

As to Old Testament I could only fine these..................................... but again, I did not do a deep, deep search.

Jeremiah 31:9, They shall come with weeping, and with supplications will I lead them: I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way, wherein they shall not stumble: for I am a father to Israel…

Isaiah 64:8, But now, O LORD, thou art our father; … and we all are the work of thy hand.

Isaiah 63:16, Doubtless thou art our father, …, O LORD, art our father, our redeemer; thy name is from everlasting.

Deuteronomy 32:6, Do ye thus requite the LORD,…? is not he thy father that hath bought thee? hath he not made thee, and established thee?

Jeremiah 3:19, …I said, Thou shalt call me, My father; and shalt not turn away from me.

Malachi 1:6, A son honors his father, and a servant his master: if then I be a father, where is mine honor?

Malachi 2:10, Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us?

Proverbs 3:12, For whom the LORD loves he corrects even as a father the son in whom he delights.

Hosea 1:10, Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered;… Ye are the sons of the living God.

The father son relationship between God and the children of Israel is also cited in Exodus 4:22,23, Deuteronomy 14:1, Hosea 11:1 and Isaiah 1:2 and Psalm 103:13.

It is apparent , that for a Christian's purpose, God being called Father started when Mary got pregnant.

So as far as I can see and understand and believe the Trinity has always been God YHWH, the Word, and the Holy Spirit.

IF IF As most contend it was God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit any one can surly see a problem with
The eternal Trinity is without beginning and without end.
The eternal Father, Son and Holy Spirit are without beginning and without end.
The eternal God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are without beginning and without end.

Simply because A son is always younger than a Father.... THEREFORE the Trinity could not have been at the same time.

What knucklehead started this idea that the Son was at the same time as the Father had a screw loose.

Even looking at the Nicene Creed where it says

We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one Being with the Father;
through him all things were made.

Even if you can get past the begottens not meaning begat... look what Got Questions has to say about this.

"begotten" is an English translation of a Greek word. As such, we have to look at the original meaning of the Greek word, not transfer English meanings into the text.

So what does monogenes mean? According to the Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature (BDAG, 3rd Edition), monogenes has two primary definitions. The first definition is "pertaining to being the only one of its kind within a specific relationship." This is its meaning in Hebrews 11:17 when the writer refers to Isaac as Abraham’s "only begotten son" (KJV). Abraham had more than one son, but Isaac was the only son he had by Sarah and the only son of the covenant. Therefore, it is the uniqueness of Isaac among the other sons that allows for the use of monogenes in that context.

The second definition is "pertaining to being the only one of its kind or class, unique in kind." This is the meaning that is implied in John 3:16 (see also John 1:14, 18; 3:18; 1 John 4:9). John was primarily concerned with demonstrating that Jesus is the Son of God (John 20:31), and he uses monogenes to highlight Jesus as uniquely God’s Son—sharing the same divine nature as God—as opposed to believers who are God’s sons and daughters by adoption (Ephesians 1:5). Jesus is God’s “one and only” Son.

Now, no one here can dispute the fact that Jesus was the SON OF GOD... and became suceh about 2400 years ago.
Not the "SON of GOD " from forever.
It is a mystery how the Word actually became a mortal for 30 some years. I dont think we need to know.
It was at that point that the completion of God YHWHs plan came to fullness, and so we await Christ Jesus, our Saviors return and for eternity.

 

[Arial]

Hi Eleanor,

I agree that this is what we Trinitarians believe. the Trinity without beginning and without end.

However, it is with
"The eternal God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are without beginning and without end."

I have a problem.

Do we agree or not that "the SON" was infarct Jesus who was born flesh and blood with Mary being his mother that grew Him within her?

Do we agree or not that back countless millennia and longer the "Word" was also with God at the same time? Not one day before and not one day after? For if we do not agree on this, and others dont, John does and that is all that matters to me because I suspect John was not inspired to write that but learned it from Jesus, Himself....

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 [a]He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. 5 The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not [b]comprehend it.

But have you ever read one single sentence, or even one single word that said that the Word was the son of God, or God was the Word's Father?

I am not asking if God was ever called Father in the Old Testament, Psalms or Proverbs... I am specifically asking if YHWH was ever referred to as the Father of the Word.

As to Old Testament I could only fine these..................................... but again, I did not do a deep, deep search.


It is apparent , that for a Christian's purpose, God being called Father started when Mary got pregnant.

So as far as I can see and understand and believe the Trinity has always been God YHWH, the Word, and the Holy Spirit.

IF IF As most contend it was God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit any one can surly see a problem with
The eternal Trinity is without beginning and without end.
The eternal Father, Son and Holy Spirit are without beginning and without end.
The eternal God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are without beginning and without end.

Simply because A son is always younger than a Father.... THEREFORE the Trinity could not have been at the same time.

What knucklehead started this idea that the Son was at the same time as the Father had a screw loose.

Even looking at the Nicene Creed where it says

We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one Being with the Father;
through him all things were made.

Even if you can get past the begottens not meaning begat... look what Got Questions has to say about this.


Now, no one here can dispute the fact that Jesus was the SON OF GOD... and became suceh about 2400 years ago.
Not the "SON of GOD " from forever.
It is a mystery how the Word actually became a mortal for 30 some years. I dont think we need to know.
It was at that point that the completion of God YHWHs plan came to fullness, and so we await Christ Jesus, our Saviors return and for eternity.

I kind of agree with what you have said here. (If I am understanding you correctly.) Jesus became the Son relationally in the incarnation. For the purpose of redemption ---the one who substitutes Himself for the sins and the sinful nature of necessity being of the same kind as the ones for whom He substitutes. (I.e. the blood of a different type, rams, and goats, and bulls, being unable to redeem any as it cannot effect a heart change. And it cannot satisfy God's justice against sin and sinful beings. IOW it cannot conquer sin and therefore conquer death.)

We are told by John that it is the Word who was with God and was God, and the Word who became flesh.

The relational aspect that the Word stepped down into is of vital importance in understanding Jesus and what He did. As one of us, He shows us that our reconciliation to God through His work, puts us in that same relationship with God. He is our Father just as He became a Father to the Son. Thus, Father is the covenant name of God, depicting that relationship of the New Covenant. Just as Yahweh was the covenant name by which He was known for Israel.

Briefly---God identified Himself as Yahweh to Abraham in that covenant relationship. And when He does so with Moses, if we look carefully, we see that God will be to Israel as He was to their Fathers. He is doing a number of things there, but one letting Moses know that He is moving the promise to Abraham of both the land and the blessing that would come to all nations through him, forward as He delivers them from bondage. The covenant of redemption.

When we come to the New Covenant, which is not separate from the Old Covenant but a fulfillment of it in Christ as the covenant of redemption moves to the coming of the promised Redeemer. Jesus conquers sin and death. All things are made new in a right now, not yet way. The covenant name is changed but it is still the same God. The covenant has been ratified by the shedding of the blood by the Word, who for our sake became the Son. Through faith in this person and this work He did, we are adopted as His children, crying out "Abba, Father!" We are united with Christ. His Father as the Son, is our Father too.

 

[Eleanor]

Catholicism to the core!

So?
That Jesus was divine is Catholicism to the core.
That Jesus was born of a virgin is Catholicism to the core.
That Jesus death atoned for sin is Catholicisn to the core.

Your point?

Proof?

Nicene Creed​

I believe in one God, the Father almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all things visible and invisible.
I believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the Only Begotten Son of God,
born of the Father before all ages.

In God's eternal decree, all things were before all ages.
I was chosen before all ages (Ro 8:29).

God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father;
through him all things were made.
For us men and for our salvation he came down from heaven,
by the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary,
and became man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate,
he suffered death and was buried,
and rose again on the third day
in accordance with the Scriptures.
He ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory
to judge the living and the dead
and his kingdom will have no end.
I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son
who with the Father and the Son, is adored and glorified,
who has spoken through the Prophets.
I believe in one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church.
I confess one Baptism for the forgiveness of sins
and I look forward to the resurrection of the dead
and the life of the world to come. Amen.
Later.....RB

Your point?

The eternal Trinity is without beginning and without end (or it is not the divine Trinity).
The eternal Father, Son and Holy Spirit are without beginning and without end.
The eternal God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are without beginning and without end.

That is the nature of God--Father, Son and Holy Spirit--without beginning and without end.

If you disagree, you are not in agreement with orthodox Christianity.

On the Trinity, I am in agreement with orthodox Christianity. . .for the simple reason that divinity is necessarily eternal--Father, Son, Holy Spirit.
If you are not in agreement with orthodox Christianity regarding the Trinity, then our differences are irresolvable.

 

[Eleanor]

Eleanor, I will address your post as I have time by Tues., Maybe sooner ~ I have some commitments, one is a funeral of a friend that I must attend, plus family members leaving today to head back home.

I did just looked over these scriptures that you provided, and I must say dear sister, you are desparte in trying to support a doctrine that the scriptures will not support, but we will post later in depth. You terribly misused these scriptures, maybe you are quoting from others, I do not know, but either or, they will not give you any support. Later...RB

I am in agreement with the Orthodox teaching on the Trinity.
Our differences are not resolvable.

 

[Eleanor]

Hi Eleanor,

I agree that this is what we Trinitarians believe. the Trinity without beginning and without end.

However, it is with
"The eternal God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are without beginning and without end."

I have a problem.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .The Trinity = Father, Son, Holy Spirit = without beginning and without end. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Do we agree or not that "the SON" was infarct Jesus who was born flesh and blood with Mary being his mother that grew Him within her?
Do we agree or not that back countless millennia and longer the "Word" was also with God at the same time? Not one day before and not one day after? For if we do not agree on this, and others dont, John does and that is all that matters to me because I suspect John was not inspired to write that but learned it from Jesus, Himself....
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 [a]He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. 5 The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not [b]comprehend it.

I agree with Orthodox Christianity that the Word was the second person, God the Son, incarnate, of the one triune God.

 

[Rella]

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .The Trinity = Father, Son, Holy Spirit = without beginning and without end. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

I agree with Orthodox Christianity that the Word was the second person, God the Son, incarnate, of the one triune God.

Then you and I have no problem