Which person in the Trinity is the Judge?

[Eleanor]

I literally laughed. Your Trinity doctrine "God is in three persons" isn't even directly stated in the Bible.

So?

Nor is "God is sovereign" even directly stated in the Bible.
Yet it is there, just as the Trinity is there (Mt 28:19).

 

[Arial]

No one here has gone that far in saying this, yet they have gone as far as to agree with the creeds which without question is teaching this heresy.

We reject totally that the Son of God, as God, was begotten mysteriously in eternity by the Father. We reject this heresy, because this teaches and can only teach:

The Divine Nature of Jesus, His Deity, His Godhead, was eternally generated by God the Father.

By means of eternal generation, God the Father begat, fathered, the Second Person of the Trinity, according to those who hold this doctrine.

Also, by means of eternal procession, God the Holy Spirit mystically proceeds from Father and Son.

This unscriptural doctrine is almost universally maintained by all “Christian” religious denominations...regardless of their other foalse teaching, most unite under this strange banner.

The Nicene Creed was formulated by the RCC under the Constantine rule. The Apostles' creed is much older and in those churches where it is used, it is in Protestant churches, and even where it is not used in Christian churches it is adhered to.

The Apostles’ Creed​

I believe in God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.

I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit
and born of the virgin Mary.
He suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried;
he descended to hell.
The third day he rose again from the dead.
He ascended to heaven
and is seated at the right hand of God the Father almighty.
From there he will come to judge the living and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic* church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen.

*that is, the true Christian church of all times and all places

 

[Rella]

The Nicene Creed was formulated by the RCC under the Constantine rule. The Apostles' creed is much older and in those churches where it is used, it is in Protestant churches, and even where it is not used in Christian churches it is adhered to.

The Apostles’ Creed​

I believe in God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.

I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit
and born of the virgin Mary.
He suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried;
he descended to hell.
The third day he rose again from the dead.
He ascended to heaven
and is seated at the right hand of God the Father almighty.
From there he will come to judge the living and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic* church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen.

*that is, the true Christian church of all times and all places

Perfectly stated. Perfectly true.

 

[Tambora]

I understand, so let me see if I can clear this up a little for you, so that, you will have a much cleaner view of what I'm saying.

No one here has gone that far in saying this, yet they have gone as far as to agree with the creeds which without question is teaching this heresy.

We reject totally that the Son of God, as God, was begotten mysteriously in eternity by the Father. We reject this heresy, because this teaches and can only teach:

The Divine Nature of Jesus, His Deity, His Godhead, was eternally generated by God the Father.

By means of eternal generation, God the Father begat, fathered, the Second Person of the Trinity, according to those who hold this doctrine.

Also, by means of eternal procession, God the Holy Spirit mystically proceeds from Father and Son.

This unscriptural doctrine is almost universally maintained by all “Christian” religious denominations...regardless of their other foalse teaching, most unite under this strange banner.

It is expressed plainly in the formal creeds and confessions, which venerate the Council of Nicea, but not from the word of God.

The obvious and certain conclusion is a begotten god, which reduces Jesus to a begotten god.

The NASV, in agreement with the Jehovah’s Witnesses’ NWT, affirms this lie in John 1:18. We earnestly contend against it.

As I mention above in another post yesterday: If we consider this doctrine rationally which few are capable of doing then an eternally begotten or generated son is simply impossible. The definitions are mutually exclusive.

Father. One by whom a child is or has been begotten, a male parent. Generate. To beget, procreate; engender. To bring into existence, to produce. Father and son are functional terms that describe a relationship of time, not eternity.

Eternal generation says either (a) the Son is still being generated or (b) He had a beginning.

We believe with all of our hearts: Scripture is superior to reason, there is no Scripture teaching eternal generation, no, not one, and not even close of being one.


Sister, those are two completely different doctrines altogether. I wish that it was that simple, because that could be easily settled, but, it is not. Though I agree that the everlasting covenant was settled before the foundation of the word as far as God purposing's what he would do in time, yet the sonship doctrine is altogether another doctrine.


I believe in the doctrine of teh Trinity as taught in the scriptures, not by creeds of men.

The Trinity Is True:​

The incarnate Sonship of Jesus Christ does not deny or weaken the Trinity at all. It establishes it. Only the ignorant or malicious will accuse the incarnate Sonship position of denying the Trinity.

The Trinity of the Bible is superior to the speculative Trinity of the Nicene Creed and followers. The Bible makes all three Persons without any distinction in their nature whatsoever.

The Bible knows nothing of “God of God” and other philosophical speculations of men. The Bible knows nothing of a begotten god, which confuses the Trinity into paganism.

Yet, Rome, Good men John Calvin, and others accuse us of the straw man argument of anti-Trinitarianism.

They proudly say we must use Origen’s, rather than God’s, words for the Trinity to be orthodox! They will not come out an ssay this, but truly they believe this.

Scripture teaches one God. There is only one Supreme Being (Deut 6:4; Isaiah 43:10; 44:6,8; Isr Cor 4:8-6).

God is self-subsistent and independent of others; He is eternal in both directions (Ex 3:14; Ps 90:2).

The nature of God is that complete collection of attributes that makes Him distinctly God (Gal 4:8).

Please note: Three Persons participate in this single Divine nature without any degree of difference whatsoever.

The three Persons are the Highest, the Word, and the Spirit (Luke 1:32; John 1:1; Isaiah 48:16). And the three Persons are the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost (Matt 3:16-17; 28:19-20; II Cor 13:14). And they are Spirit, Lord, and God (I Cor 12:4-6), or Ancient of Days and Son of man (Dan 7:13).

So, the doctrine of a three-in-one God is revealed plainly in Scripture (I John 5:7), though begotten god advocates deny this glorious testimony in their annual Holy Bible sequels.

Please note: The Word and Spirit are wholly “I AM THAT I AM.” The Word is not what the Father begat! The Word, who became flesh in the Lord Jesus Christ, was fully God (John 1:1 cp Colossians 2:9). The Word is the first, second and third person of the Godhead, as far as their Divine nature goes. I do not know how to make this any clearer.

Oh no, impossible~God is a Spirit that lives in eternity, always has, always will, this can never change, impossible.

Now, I will say this, while Jesus was on earth, he also was IN HEAVEN as the I AM THAT I AM!

John 3:13​

“And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.”

I trust I have made this a little plainer for you. I agree with Paul:

1st Timothy 3:16​

“And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.”

I follow what you are saying and I agree.
However I do not think the folks that came up with the creed had any sort of sinister agenda [not saying that you do] in how they stated it but were doing the best they could at the time using words in scripture.
It is that word "begotten" that they had to dance around, but that was because at the time they were unaware of word usage.

There was a time when scholars believed monogenesis (translated only begotten in KJV) was said to be formed with two Greek words:

monos = one and only​

genao = beget​

Since that time, with the discovery of more Greek manuscripts and other writings using Koine Greek, it became apparent that genao was the verb form, not the noun form; and that monogenesis was actually formed from these two Greek nouns:

monos = one and only​

gene = kind or type​

What it truly means is one of a kind, the only of it's kind (unique).

 

[Red Baker]

The Apostles’ Creed​

I believe in God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.

I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit
and born of the virgin Mary.
He suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried;
he descended to hell.
The third day he rose again from the dead.
He ascended to heaven
and is seated at the right hand of God the Father almighty.
From there he will come to judge the living and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic* church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen.

*that is, the true Christian church of all times and all places

As a Christian, I do not believe that creeds, confessions, and catechisms are infallible ~ that can only be said of Scripture.
It was not written by the Apostles, they only left us the inspired word of God. But, be as it may be.......

Does Apostles' Creed would provide an excellent summary of those doctrines unique to Christianity? Overall, close we would agree. The creed sets forth the basic doctrine of the Trinity without trying to insert their own opinions how the Trinity came into being. It sets forth the basic economy of redemption ~ God ( they use the Father in relation to creation) the Father is the creator of all things, which the scriptures applies to Jesus in his deity as God. Jesus is the only Savior, and the Holy Spirit is the one who gives us faith and then unites us to Christ. The creed also affirms the basic historical facts of the gospel — our Lord's virgin birth, (which we say amen) His suffering, death, and bodily resurrection. Furthermore, the creed affirms Jesus' descent into hell (which is wrong..... we know it is wrong ~ we believe Jesus suffered the wrath of God upon the cross and in his death, which is the wage of sin); His bodily resurrection, and His ascent into heaven where Jesus now rules over all until He returns at the end of the of this world to raise the dead an to judge both the quick and the dead.

Next, the creed affirms the person and work of the Holy Spirit, the existence of a "holy" (those whose only hope of heaven is in the redemptive work of Jesus Christ) and "catholic" church, a reference to the universal church (the body of Christ) that will exist from the time it was founded until Jesus returns. The creed affirms the communion of saints (the fellowship of justified sinners with the risen Christ), the forgiveness of sins (Christ's work in fulfilling all righteousness and dying for the sins of His people), the resurrection of the body at the end of the age (as Jesus was raised bodily on the third day, so will we when He returns) and life everlasting (new heavens and earth).

So, whoever put it together, believed the scriptures and why it was put together, we have no knowledge, when the scriptures themselves is only rule of our faith.

 

[Red Baker]

What it truly means is one of a kind, the only of it's kind (unique).

While I agree that the phrase "only begotten" has reference to ~in the manner in which he was begotten, yet, it is also noted that Jesus was indeed begotten by the power of the Highest...in time, not from eternity. It was his humanity that was begotten, not his deity as the Alpha and Omega, the Almighty God.

 

[Arial]

@Red Baker

Westminster Confession



III. In the unity of the Godhead there be three persons, of one substance, power, and eternity: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost, (1Jo 5:7; Mat 3:16-17; Mat 28:19; 2Co 13:14): the Father is of none, neither begotten, nor proceeding; the Son is eternally begotten of the Father, (Jhn 1:14; Jhn 1:18); the Holy Ghost eternally proceeding from the Father and the Son, (Jhn 15:26; Gal 4:6).

It is not saying that the Word was begotten but only that the Son was, (as Jesus)who is eternally with God and is God. The one we know as the Son who is the only begotten Son of God is God the Word, always was, always will be.

You can bicker over wording, ignoring what it is that people actually believe, all day long, even implying that the whole Christian church is heretical on that point. All it really amounts to is the suggestion that you could and would write the doctrines and creeds correctly. You need to take into account the cultural differences in word usage and language and understanding of these things that existed when they were penned. In that way one can better ascertain what they meant.

John said it quite simply in John 1. That is what Christians believe and that is the Christian doctrine. I have also done so as has @Rella and @Eleanor. The Word was not always the Son, the Word became the Son, therefore was begotten as the Son, Jesus. The Son on the other hand, was always the Word.

 

[Eleanor]

As a Christian, I do not believe that creeds, confessions, and catechisms are infallible ~ that can only be said of Scripture.
It was not written by the Apostles, they only left us the inspired word of God. But, be as it may be.......

Does Apostles' Creed would provide an excellent summary of those doctrines unique to Christianity? Overall, close we would agree. The creed sets forth the basic doctrine of the Trinity without trying to insert their own opinions how the Trinity came into being.

Science of Theology 101:

Nothing eternal ever "comes into being." It always was and always will be.

It sets forth the basic economy of redemption ~ God ( they use the Father in relation to creation) the Father is the creator of all things, which the scriptures applies to Jesus in his deity as God. Jesus is the only Savior, and the Holy Spirit is the one who gives us faith and then unites us to Christ. The creed also affirms the basic historical facts of the gospel — our Lord's virgin birth, (which we say amen) His suffering, death, and bodily resurrection. Furthermore, the creed affirms Jesus' descent into hell (which is wrong..... we know it is wrong ~ we believe Jesus suffered the wrath of God upon the cross and in his death, which is the wage of sin); His bodily resurrection, and His ascent into heaven where Jesus now rules over all until He returns at the end of the of this world to raise the dead an to judge both the quick and the dead.

Next, the creed affirms the person and work of the Holy Spirit, the existence of a "holy" (those whose only hope of heaven is in the redemptive work of Jesus Christ) and "catholic" church, a reference to the universal church (the body of Christ) that will exist from the time it was founded until Jesus returns. The creed affirms the communion of saints (the fellowship of justified sinners with the risen Christ), the forgiveness of sins (Christ's work in fulfilling all righteousness and dying for the sins of His people), the resurrection of the body at the end of the age (as Jesus was raised bodily on the third day, so will we when He returns) and life everlasting (new heavens and earth).
So, whoever put it together, believed the scriptures and why it was put together, we have no knowledge, when the scriptures themselves is only rule of our faith.

Speak for yourself. . .history testifies to the reason.

There was no printing press then, Bibles were scarce hand-inscribed scrolls, and creeds were shorthand for the word of God written.

 

[Arial]

As a Christian, I do not believe that creeds, confessions, and catechisms are infallible ~ that can only be said of Scripture.
It was not written by the Apostles, they only left us the inspired word of God. But, be as it may be.......

I don't know of any Christian who believes they are infallible. You are the one who brought the creeds into the conversation.

Furthermore, the creed affirms Jesus' descent into hell (which is wrong..... we know it is wrong ~ we believe Jesus suffered the wrath of God upon the cross and in his death, which is the wage of sin); His bodily resurrection, and His ascent into heaven where Jesus now rules over all until He returns at the end of the of this world to raise the dead an to judge both the quick and the dead.

A different subject.

So, whoever put it together, believed the scriptures and why it was put together, we have no knowledge, when the scriptures themselves is only rule of our faith.

So why are you arguing about it?

 

[Red Baker]

I don't know of any Christian who believes they are infallible. You are the one who brought the creeds into the conversation.

I did so to prove their error, and for no other reason.

A different subject.

It is a different subject and that's why I forbear to say very much, other than to point out a couple of errors.

So why are you arguing about it?

Not arguing about it~So, I'll stop, said all I desire to say, concerning the Apostles' creed that you posted.

I rather be warring against those that reject Jesus' deity than spending my time discussing our differences~who do believe in the complex natures of Jesus Christ.

 

[Red Baker]

There was no printing press then, Bibles were scarce hand-inscribed scrolls, and creeds were shorthand for the word of God written.

Sound reasonable.

 

[Red Baker]

The Word was not always the Son, the Word became the Son, therefore was begotten as the Son, Jesus. The Son on the other hand, was always the Word.

I may expand upon this tomorrow, for now: This is a perfect confession, with one little exception~"The Son on the other hand, was always the Word"...which we agree........... "as God"!

The Lord bless you, Eleanor, and Rella, in all sincerity, as you seek him and his truth.

 

[Rella]

@Red Baker

Westminster Confession



III. In the unity of the Godhead there be three persons, of one substance, power, and eternity: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost, (1Jo 5:7; Mat 3:16-17; Mat 28:19; 2Co 13:14): the Father is of none, neither begotten, nor proceeding; the Son is eternally begotten of the Father, (Jhn 1:14; Jhn 1:18); the Holy Ghost eternally proceeding from the Father and the Son, (Jhn 15:26; Gal 4:6).

It is not saying that the Word was begotten but only that the Son was, (as Jesus)who is eternally with God and is God. The one we know as the Son who is the only begotten Son of God is God the Word, always was, always will be.

You can bicker over wording, ignoring what it is that people actually believe, all day long, even implying that the whole Christian church is heretical on that point. All it really amounts to is the suggestion that you could and would write the doctrines and creeds correctly. You need to take into account the cultural differences in word usage and language and understanding of these things that existed when they were penned. In that way one can better ascertain what they meant.

John said it quite simply in John 1. That is what Christians believe and that is the Christian doctrine. I have also done so as has @Rella and @Eleanor. The Word was not always the Son, the Word became the Son, therefore was begotten as the Son, Jesus. The Son on the other hand, was always the Word.

Side note: Westminster Confession states it somewhat confusing to those who don't grasp what you, and Eleanor and myself sees so clearly... But it is close enough.

I also always feel compelled to post part on a different area...

Westminster Confession of Faith - WestminsterStandards.org

I. Of the Holy Scripture1. Although the light of nature, and the works of creation and providence do so far manifest the goodness, wisdom, and power of God, as to leave men inexcusable; (Rom. 2:14–15, Rom. 1:19–20, Ps. 19:1–3, Rom. 1:32, Rom. 2:1) yet they are not sufficient to give that...

westminsterstandards.org

III. Of God's Eternal Decree​

3. By the decree of God, for the manifestation of His glory, some men and angels (1 Tim. 5:21, Matt. 25:41) are predestinated unto everlasting life; and others foreordained to everlasting death. (Rom. 9:22–23, Eph. 1:5–6, Prov. 16:4)

 

[Runningman]

Is this what you call jumping in? Laughing is about all you can do, since you certainly cannot provide scriptures to support your heresy. God's testimony from his word will not provide you any hope, only a curse for people like you, who rejects the doctrine that Jesus Christ was God manifest in the flesh, while still being the eternal God who is a Spirit dwelling in eternity.

Nothing in the Bible says God was manifest in the flesh that hasn't been debunked.

I have no clue what you are attempting to say, for there is not one thing that I should agree with, that is inconvenient for me that is true~for if it is a truth of the scriptures, then why would that be a problem? God's children desire truth more than gold or silver, or anything this world has to offer them. Jesus said:

John 8:32​

“And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”

I'm free from being in bondage to man's doctrines found in creeds, and false cults, since we live by every word of God, and if I cannot support my teachings with the scriptures, then I dig deeper and work harder because know that the truth is found only within the scriptures, not in the teachings of men who think they are wiser than the scriptures.

There being no proof for the Trinity in the bible is inconvenient for you. You made a lot of noise, but didn't deliver anything of substance.

What's your best Trinity verse or passage? And don't Throw a wall of Scripture at me and say "this is what it means when you read it the way I am telling you to read it." No. Show me where God, Jesus, or any of the disciples talked about it, explained it, or described it. I think this will be the wall you always run into. You're going to find the truth will indeed set you free, soon, I hope.

 

[Runningman]

So?

Nor is "God is sovereign" even directly stated in the Bible.

God is described as sovereign. The trinity isn't described. Big difference.

Yet it is there, just as the Trinity is there (Mt 28:19).

That would be begging the question because Matthew 28:19 doesn't say they are the trinity.

 

[Runningman]

The word bible is not in the book.

Biblos is not translated Bible according to the Greek Mathew 1:1

1 976 [e] 1 Biblos 1 Βίβλος 1 [The] book 1 N-NFS​

1078 [e] geneseōs γενέσεως of [the] genealogy N-GFS​

Peshitta Aramaic...

1The book of the genealogy of Yeshua The Messiah, The Son of David, The Son of Abraham.

Varied translations........ of Matt 1:1

New International Version
This is the genealogy of Jesus the Messiah the son of David, the son of Abraham:

New Living Translation
This is a record of the ancestors of Jesus the Messiah, a descendant of David and of Abraham:

English Standard Version
The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.

Berean Standard Bible
This is the record of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham:

Berean Literal Bible
The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, son of David, son of Abraham:

King James Bible
The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.

New King James Version
The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the Son of David, the Son of Abraham:

New American Standard Bible
The record of the genealogy of Jesus the Messiah, the son of David, the son of Abraham:

NASB 1995
The record of the genealogy of Jesus the Messiah, the son of David, the son of Abraham:

NASB 1977
The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.

Legacy Standard Bible
The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham:

Amplified Bible
The record of the genealogy of Jesus the Messiah, the son (descendant) of David, the son (descendant) of Abraham:

Christian Standard Bible
An account of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the Son of David, the Son of Abraham:

Holman Christian Standard Bible
The historical record of Jesus Christ, the Son of David, the Son of Abraham:

American Standard Version
The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
The book of the genealogy of Yeshua The Messiah, The Son of David, The Son of Abraham.

Contemporary English Version
Jesus Christ came from the family of King David and also from the family of Abraham. And this is a list of his ancestors.

Douay-Rheims Bible
THE book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham:

English Revised Version
The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
This is the list of ancestors of Jesus Christ, descendant of David and Abraham.

Good News Translation
This is the list of the ancestors of Jesus Christ, a descendant of David, who was a descendant of Abraham.

International Standard Version
This is a record of the life of Jesus the Messiah, the son of David, the son of Abraham.

Literal Standard Version
[The] scroll of the birth of Jesus Christ, Son of David, Son of Abraham.

Majority Standard Bible
This is the record of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham:

New American Bible
The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.

NET Bible
This is the record of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.

New Revised Standard Version
An account of the genealogy of Jesus the Messiah, the son of David, the son of Abraham.

New Heart English Bible
A record of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.

Webster's Bible Translation
The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.

Weymouth New Testament
The Genealogy of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.

World English Bible
The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.

Young's Literal Translation
A roll of the birth of Jesus Christ, son of David, son of Abraham.

The Greek word for Bible is in Matthew 1:1. The word for Trinity in any language is non-existent in the Bible. You would think with something as important as who God is that it would be reflected in the teachings of Jesus or his disciples.

Why do you people never fully disclose this at the beginning when you start a topic about the Trinity? It looks like you're trying to trick people. You should begin with being upfront that what you're pushing isn't actually in the Bible.

 

[Runningman]

The Nicene Creed was formulated by the RCC under the Constantine rule. The Apostles' creed is much older and in those churches where it is used, it is in Protestant churches, and even where it is not used in Christian churches it is adhered to.

The Apostles’ Creed​

I believe in God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.

I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit
and born of the virgin Mary.
He suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried;
he descended to hell.
The third day he rose again from the dead.
He ascended to heaven
and is seated at the right hand of God the Father almighty.
From there he will come to judge the living and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic* church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen.

*that is, the true Christian church of all times and all places

The only one called God in the Apostle's creed is the Father and you still don't believe. lol

 

[Runningman]

Perfectly stated. Perfectly true.

So you agree that the only true God is the Father and that the others aren't God? That's what the Apostle's creed says. It doesn't mention anything about the others being God.

 

[Red Baker]

You can bicker over wording, ignoring what it is that people actually believe, all day long, even implying that the whole Christian church is heretical on that point. All it really amounts to is the suggestion that you could and would write the doctrines and creeds correctly. You need to take into account the cultural differences in word usage and language and understanding of these things that existed when they were penned. In that way one can better ascertain what they meant.

I certainly do not believe could write any of the confessions from different groups of professing Christians better~far from that thought....but I will say, that many of them used each other to form their own confessions, adding, taking aways wording that was either not understood by them, or that they held different from other sects among professing Christians. Some men have been known to just repeat what others hold to be the truth, without truly understanding what they are repeating, and never consider the ramifications of what they are saying.

If I had one to chose to teach my grandchildren, (I have always just use the scriptures to teach my children and their children) then I would use the 1643 London Confession of faith more than any of them~reason being I am for the most part of the Particular Baptist faith, if I had to tell others who I'm the closet to.

 

[Red Baker]

Nothing in the Bible says God was manifest in the flesh that hasn't been debunked.

Keep believing that lie. Let me hear you explain just one, ot two verses, or give me a reference to where you have already done so I can read it.

Start with John 1:1 cp with John 1:14. One more~1st Timothy 3:16. Show me how you can debunk these scriptures given by holy men of old, who taught that God was indeed manifest in the flesh.

There being no proof for the Trinity in the bible is inconvenient for you. You made a lot of noise, but didn't deliver anything of substance.

My confession is that there is one I AM THAT I AM, manifest to us as three; Father, Son and Holy Ghost according to each respective work in the redemption of God's elect.

1st John 5:7​

“For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.”

I reckon John the apostle, according to you, is not delivering any substance. You are rejecting the biblical doctrine of Christ. Not a very safe ground to stand on for sure.