Water Baptism

[JesusFan]

I sort of agree but Peter was not referring to water baptism at all in that sermon of the gospel preached.

Water Baptism in the NT would be to we Baptists an outward sign and witness to already done inward work of the Holy Spirit saving us now in Christ Jesus

 

[BillyBob65]

While we often read in the New Testament of people believing on the Lord Jesus Christ, and then being baptised, we never read of anyone who is still an unbeliever being baptised. Examples of places where it is stated that people believed first, and then were baptised, are the Ethiopian who was baptised by Philip, and the Philippian jailer:

“36 Now as they went down the road, they came to some water. And the eunuch said, “See, here is water. What hinders me from being baptized?” 37 Then Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.” And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”” (Ac 8:36-37 NKJV)

“31 So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.” 32 Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all who were in his house. 33 And he took them the same hour of the night and washed [their] stripes. And immediately he and all his [family] were baptized. 34 Now when he had brought them into his house, he set food before them; and he rejoiced, having believed in God with all his household.” (Ac 16:31-34 NKJV)

No I didn't forget the thief. In fact I wrote in Post 3 of this thread, the very post to which you were replying: "Baptism is a sign that one has been saved. It is not necessary in order to be saved. We have only to think of the thief on the cross, to whom Jesus said, Today you will be with me in paradise." Like the people in Auschwitz and Dachau, he had no opportunity for baptism." As for baptism not being available while Jesus was bodily on earth, we read in John 4:

“1 ¶ Therefore, when the Lord knew that the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John 2 (though Jesus Himself did not baptize, but His disciples),” (Joh 4:1-2 NKJV)

Yes 100% belief us required before baptism> One must believe in Jesus and the gospel before one can obey the gospel> I do not know of anyone that would say differently. The gospel was preached first on the day of Pentecost when 300 souls obeyed and were added to the church that day.
When they heard the gospel and believed the gospel they asked Peter what they must do what was his answer ? He did not say nothing your faith has saved you but rather he told then to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sin and you shall receive the gift of the holy ghost.

Verse 31 shows the pattern yes you must believe but they did not leave it at that they told them what they must believe and apparently to b baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sin (Acts 2:38 )was also commanded of them just as it was to the crowd on the day of Pentecost same order

No I didn't forget the thief. In fact I wrote in Post 3 of this thread, the very post to which you were replying: "Baptism is a sign that one has been saved. It is not necessary in order to be saved. We have only to think of the thief on the cross, to whom Jesus said, Today you will be with me in paradise." Like the people in Auschwitz and Dachau, he had no opportunity for baptism." As for baptism not being available while Jesus was bodily on earth, we read in John 4:

“1 ¶ Therefore, when the Lord knew that the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John 2 (though Jesus Himself did not baptize, but His disciples),” (Joh 4:1-2 NKJV)

You are missing the point that the Baptism in the name of Jesus Christ it the baptism that causes one to be born again just as Paul said in Romans six the baptism of John is not the same for it only pointed to the cross and did not have the power of he cross as that of the baptism that Jesus baptized with which was the one in his name. the thief was not ever under the new covenant he did not live long enough to enter into the new covenant.

Mark 1:4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. Both the baptism of John and that of in Jesus name was for the remission of sin the difference is the baptism of John was a transition time point to when Jesus work on the cross would be complete and put all the cleansing power of God to remit sin and give the indwelling spirit. Johns baptism was fulfilled in the Baptism in thee name of Jesus Christ .

 

[BillyBob65]

In Acts 2:38 (or anywhere in that chapter for that matter) there is no mention of water baptism so your parenthetical Acts 2:38 (water), is not warranted.

What had happened before Peter gave his sermon in vs. 14-41? 120 persons were gathered to gather in one place.

2 When the day of Pentecost arrived, they were all together in one place. 2 And suddenly there came from heaven a sound like a mighty rushing wind, and it filled the entire house where they were sitting. 3 And divided tongues as of fire appeared to them and rested on each one of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance.

They were baptized with the Holy Spirit as Jesus had promised and as John the Baptist had prophesied. They were baptized into Christ as per John 3---born again. None were baptized with water at the point of Peter's sermon.

Romans 6:
What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it? 3 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.

5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his.

Paul isn't speaking of water baptism either. He is writing to say that if one denies our future resurrection (as evidently some were) then our faith is in vain and even Christ's death was in vain. IOW it is a necessary part of the gospel unto salvation to believe in the resurrection. The baptism he speaks of is the baptism by the Holy Spirit (new birth, John 3) that makes our union with Christ so intimate and sure, as to be considered being buried and raised to life with him.

It is that union that water baptism signifies.

In Acts 2:38 (or anywhere in that chapter for that matter) there is no mention of water baptism so your parenthetical Acts 2:38 (water), is not warranted.

from the time of John the baptism through the baptism in the name of Jesus Christ it has always been in water and plenty of scriptures testify to the matter

Acts 2:2-4 is the spirit coming upon the Apostle's with the power of witness it was only upon the Apostles as the chapter details The crowd was amazed the the Apostles we speaking in different languages not the crowd

Show me scripture where you are commanded to be baptized in the holy ghost being the gospel is to be obeyed how do you baptize one in the holy ghost you don't because the command is to baptize with water in the name of Jesus Christ

In Romans six it is speaking about the water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ (Acts 2:38) it is describing the new birth (born again) it is where then old sinful man is buried in the waters of baptism and raised from the grave into a new life in the spirit. the chapter goes into great detail explaining it you have to have closed ears and be blind not to see that just read what was record as it was with out trying to put a spin on it to make it fit a misconception.

Romans 6:16
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

see it is talking about being delivered from sin being saved being born again and how did it occur it was because we obeyed that form of doctrine which was the gospel we were baptized into his death and raised in the new life

 

[BillyBob65]

Water Baptism was never given as the way and entry into salvation, but was symbolic of our salvation and new nature in Christ once saved, as the Baptism that saves us is the Holy Spirit baptizing us now into Christ and into His body when saved and born again

You really need to read Romans six for that is exactly what Paul is trying to get you to see.
First water baptism is the only command given to us to do so when the bible talks of you being baptized it is in reference to Acts 2:38 so Romans six say 3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? this is the baptism in the name of Jesus Christ as some many of this type is referencing. The holy spirit baptism was never commanded and had a purpose outside of salvation. Salvation was never the purpose of the holy spirit being poured upon we get the indwelling spirit not the spirit upon and scripture makes that clear as well but that is a whole nother study

 

[BillyBob65]

The bible teaches to us that in the new Covenant, its not water that cleanses us from sins, but a symbolic picture of the shed blood of Jesus and the Baptism in and by the Holy Spirit

Again read Romans six yes the water has no power God is the one that does all the transformation even though he chose to us water baptism as the vessel in which he preforms this work

 

[BillyBob65]

I sort of agree but Peter was not referring to water baptism at all in that sermon of the gospel preached.

the in what was he commanding them to be baptized in and how was it going to be preformed?

 

[BillyBob65]

Water Baptism in the NT would be to we Baptists an outward sign and witness to already done inward work of the Holy Spirit saving us now in Christ Jesus

This I would love to see where God said this is the case please book chapter and verse

 

[Arial]

from the time of John the baptism through the baptism in the name of Jesus Christ it has always been in water and plenty of scriptures testify to the matter

I am not saying there is no water baptism. I am saying that is not what Peter was talking about in Acts 2:38, and it is not what Paul was talking about specifically, other than to attach water baptism as representative of union with Christ in his death and resurrection, in Romans 6.

Indeed, in Acts 2:41 it references what is likely water baptism, but this is how the verse reads: Those who accepted his message were baptized and about three thousand were added to their number that day. They believed and then were baptized. Believing is what saves, not baptism.

Have you not considered in your interpretation other scriptures that are pertinent to what occurred at Pentecost?

Mark 1:8 "I have baptized you with water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit."

Acts 1:4-5 And while staying with them he ordered them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the promise of the Father, which, he said, "you heard from me; for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now."

Baptism also has a metaphorical meaning of cleansing and being immersed. This expresses the union of "in Christ", and the cleansing that is done by the Holy Spirit (John 3) when he applies the work of Jesus to the person.

 

[Arial]

from the time of John the baptism through the baptism in the name of Jesus Christ it has always been in water and plenty of scriptures testify to the matter

I am not disputing that the rite of baptism is done in water.

 

[Arial]

Acts 2:2-4 is the spirit coming upon the Apostle's with the power of witness it was only upon the Apostles as the chapter details The crowd was amazed the the Apostles we speaking in different languages not the crowd

I did not say that it was the crowd who were manifesting the Spirit. I said it was the apostles and those present in that room, which the Bible says were 120 persons.

Show me scripture where you are commanded to be baptized in the holy ghost being the gospel is to be obeyed how do you baptize one in the holy ghost you don't because the command is to baptize with water in the name of Jesus Christ

People don't baptize any one with the Holy Spirit. God does that. (And could you please use proper punctuation, commas where they belong, otherwise it is extremely difficult to parse what are saying.)

Here are two scriptures: John 3:3 Jesus answered him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." 5. Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of Hod. 6. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7. Do not marvel that I said to you, "You must be born again.' The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit."

John 1:12-13 But to all who did receive him, wo believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

 

[BillyBob65]

I am not disputing that the rite of baptism is done in water.

but what you are refusing to accept is that the scriptures on water baptism say is that it is for the remission of sin. tou see and read that but don't accept it as Gods truth because that would not fit with what you have come to believe but God clearly said baptism is for the remission of sin and when one receives the spirit that much is clear. to many scriptures say it to dismiss the fact

 

[BillyBob65]

I am not saying there is no water baptism. I am saying that is not what Peter was talking about in Acts 2:38, and it is not what Paul was talking about specifically, other than to attach water baptism as representative of union with Christ in his death and resurrection, in Romans 6.

Indeed, in Acts 2:41 it references what is likely water baptism, but this is how the verse reads: Those who accepted his message were baptized and about three thousand were added to their number that day. They believed and then were baptized. Believing is what saves, not baptism.

Have you not considered in your interpretation other scriptures that are pertinent to what occurred at Pentecost?

Mark 1:8 "I have baptized you with water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit."

Acts 1:4-5 And while staying with them he ordered them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the promise of the Father, which, he said, "you heard from me; for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now."

Baptism also has a metaphorical meaning of cleansing and being immersed. This expresses the union of "in Christ", and the cleansing that is done by the Holy Spirit (John 3) when he applies the work of Jesus to the person.

Will address this later today when i have more time

 

[BillyBob65]

I did not say that it was the crowd who were manifesting the Spirit. I said it was the apostles and those present in that room, which the Bible says were 120 persons.

People don't baptize any one with the Holy Spirit. God does that. (And could you please use proper punctuation, commas where they belong, otherwise it is extremely difficult to parse what are saying.)

Here are two scriptures: John 3:3 Jesus answered him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." 5. Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of Hod. 6. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7. Do not marvel that I said to you, "You must be born again.' The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit."

John 1:12-13 But to all who did receive him, wo believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

Will address this also later today when i have more time.
Yes i will try to do better i am holding laptop with one hand while pecking with the other sorry.

 

[Arial]

but what you are refusing to accept is that the scriptures on water baptism say is that it is for the remission of sin. tou see and read that but don't accept it as Gods truth because that would not fit with what you have come to believe but God clearly said baptism is for the remission of sin and when one receives the spirit that much is clear. to many scriptures say it to dismiss the fact

To say that about me goes to the operation of my mind, which you have no access to.

Certainly, I have heard that it is not the actual water baptism that removes sin, but that is not why I believe that. I believe that water baptism is a sign of the union with Christ through believing. And I believe the Scriptures when they say that believing in our hearts (not just with our mind as mental assent) that Jesus is who he says he is and did what he said he did, and that he is the only way of salvation unto eternal life through the forgiveness of our sin. It does not say that water baptism is what cleanses us of sin. It says what cleanses us of sin is being joined to Christ through faith, identifying with his death and resurrection. And that is what the water baptism represents as per Romans 6.

One believes because they have been born again (John 3; John 1:12-13. And if the Spirit regenerates a person, they have the Holy Spirit indwelling them. If water baptism was when a person received the Spirit, and have their sins removed (and you need to provide scriptures that explicitly state that) then there are a lot of people who believe who are saved but do not have their sins removed and who do not have the Holy Spirit.

Even the baptism of John was a sign of repentance and not a removal of sins. I am going to start a thread on the Baptism of John.

 

[BillyBob65]

I did not say that it was the crowd who were manifesting the Spirit. I said it was the apostles and those present in that room, which the Bible says were 120 persons.

People don't baptize any one with the Holy Spirit. God does that. (And could you please use proper punctuation, commas where they belong, otherwise it is extremely difficult to parse what are saying.)

Here are two scriptures: John 3:3 Jesus answered him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." 5. Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of Hod. 6. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7. Do not marvel that I said to you, "You must be born again.' The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit."

John 1:12-13 But to all who did receive him, wo believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

Question, What is the reason for water baptism? Jesus commands the Apostles to teach and baptize so why baptize? What do the scriptures say baptism is about? I mean really Jesus would give the reason one must be water baptized wouldn't he so what was the reason Jesus gave?

As for John 3:3ff Did not Paul explain that this happened when one was baptized into Christ in Romans chapter six? Did he not spend the whole chapter explaining it how you die to sin and are born new in the spirit?

 

[BillyBob65]

I am not saying there is no water baptism. I am saying that is not what Peter was talking about in Acts 2:38, and it is not what Paul was talking about specifically, other than to attach water baptism as representative of union with Christ in his death and resurrection, in Romans 6.

Indeed, in Acts 2:41 it references what is likely water baptism, but this is how the verse reads: Those who accepted his message were baptized and about three thousand were added to their number that day. They believed and then were baptized. Believing is what saves, not baptism.

Have you not considered in your interpretation other scriptures that are pertinent to what occurred at Pentecost?

Mark 1:8 "I have baptized you with water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit."

Acts 1:4-5 And while staying with them he ordered them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the promise of the Father, which, he said, "you heard from me; for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now."

Baptism also has a metaphorical meaning of cleansing and being immersed. This expresses the union of "in Christ", and the cleansing that is done by the Holy Spirit (John 3) when he applies the work of Jesus to the person.

How do I say this so you can grasp what I am trying to express? Yes one always has to believe the gospel before they can respond. The gospel has re response call. The gospel has to be obeyed. it is believe and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. That is what happened in Acts 2 then God added those that were being save to the church . Acts2:47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

Yes I have considered the difference of the phrase baptize you with the holy spirit. We just see that differently I see it as giving the indwelling spirit through the baptism in the name of Jesus Christ and I think that Paul in Acts 19 solidifies that understanding.

Acts 19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

In this passage Paul makes it clear that the baptism in the name of Christ is where the indwelling spirit is given just as scripture teaches in Acts 2:38

Another thing it teaches that it does matter as to which baptism one receives. The baptism in the name of Jesus Christ (Acts 2:38) is the only one that remits sin and gives the spirit just as scripture says. Here we have scripture verifying itself.

You posted Acts 1:4-5 but did not include verse 7&8
7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

The Apostles were to receive power for witnessing separate from the indwelling the indwelling is given through the baptism in Christ name and is for all but the power of witness was only for the apostles.

 

[BillyBob65]

To say that about me goes to the operation of my mind, which you have no access to.

Certainly, I have heard that it is not the actual water baptism that removes sin, but that is not why I believe that. I believe that water baptism is a sign of the union with Christ through believing. And I believe the Scriptures when they say that believing in our hearts (not just with our mind as mental assent) that Jesus is who he says he is and did what he said he did, and that he is the only way of salvation unto eternal life through the forgiveness of our sin. It does not say that water baptism is what cleanses us of sin. It says what cleanses us of sin is being joined to Christ through faith, identifying with his death and resurrection. And that is what the water baptism represents as per Romans 6.

One believes because they have been born again (John 3; John 1:12-13. And if the Spirit regenerates a person, they have the Holy Spirit indwelling them. If water baptism was when a person received the Spirit, and have their sins removed (and you need to provide scriptures that explicitly state that) then there are a lot of people who believe who are saved but do not have their sins removed and who do not have the Holy Spirit.

Even the baptism of John was a sign of repentance and not a removal of sins. I am going to start a thread on the Baptism of John.

Not to rehash what the water baptism is about but to address believing. Jesus says to believe in him you must believe his words for his words are spirit and life. You must not only believe that he is the son of God and he came to die for your sins but what he teaches to respond to the gospel. The gospel is His death burial and Resurrection and we are to respond in the manner he has laid out in his last testament to us before he returned to his Farther in heave. If you love me you will keep my commandments is what he has said.

His command is to believe and be baptized to repent and confess his name. Christendom has no problem with accepting his command to believe to repent to confess him before man but get totally hung up on his teaching on baptism.

 

[Arial]

How do I say this so you can grasp what I am trying to express? Y

I know what you are trying to express. I have also expressed what I believe and instead of demonstrating what is wrong with it, why it is in correct, you simply repeat your position. I have clearly addressed your position and shown with exegesis and commentary why your position cannot be correct. Points you have not faced.

Yes one always has to believe the gospel before they can respond.

Believing the gospel is responding.

The gospel has to be obeyed. it is believe and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.

Scripture does not always say "believe and be baptized". Sometimes it simply says "repent" or "believe and you will be saved." So why is the necessary act of baptism (according to you) not always mentioned? If it takes faith in Christ plus obedience or plus water baptism then it is no longer "through faith alone, in Christ alone". And it is no longer grace. The baptism of John was just a sign, and I will deal with that when I post the thread.

That is what happened in Acts 2 then God added those that were being save to the church . Acts2:47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

What happened in Acts 2 is they believed and then were baptized. Does it say that when they were baptized their sins were removed? Or that was when they received the Holy Spirit?

Yes I have considered the difference of the phrase baptize you with the holy spirit. We just see that differently I see it as giving the indwelling spirit through the baptism in the name of Jesus Christ and I think that Paul in Acts 19 solidifies that understanding.

Acts 19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

In this passage Paul makes it clear that the baptism in the name of Christ is where the indwelling spirit is given just as scripture teaches in Acts 2:38

No, he does not. But I will not deal with what it does mean here, but rather in the thread I start of the baptism of John as it will make this post too long and move off subject. The critical factor in that passage than makes Paul to not be saying that water baptism is what gives the indwelling Holy Spirit, is what the baptism off John was all about. Its historic hemeneutic needs to be applied and compared to the baptism in the name of Jesus.

You posted Acts 1:4-5 but did not include verse 7&8
7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

The Apostles were to receive power for witnessing separate from the indwelling the indwelling is given through the baptism in Christ name and is for all but the power of witness was only for the apostles.

It does not say it is separate from the indwelling. In fact they couldn't do it without the indwelling. The apostle's commission was very specific. Laying the foundation (doctrine) of Christ's church and beginning the process of carrying to all nations. No one has any good in them or any power for sanctification or gospel sharing or anything else, without the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. It is God who works in us.

 

[Arial]

Not to rehash what the water baptism is about but to address believing.

It would be more conducive to a conversation if you addressed what I said about believing. Rather than just presenting what you believe about believing. It is crucial to my position and in rebuttal to your position that water baptism is when one receives the Holy Spirit and remission of their sins.

You must not only believe that he is the son of God and he came to die for your sins but what he teaches to respond to the gospel. The gospel is His death burial and Resurrection and we are to respond in the manner he has laid out in his last testament to us before he returned to his Farther in heave. If you love me you will keep my commandments is what he has said.

In theological terms that is progressive sanctification by the Holy Spirit through his word. All who are genuinely in Christ love him because he first loved them and by no other means.

His command is to believe and be baptized to repent and confess his name. Christendom has no problem with accepting his command to believe to repent to confess him before man but get totally hung up on his teaching on baptism.

Why do you think Christendom does not agree with water baptism? What is not agreed with is that our sins remain until we are water baptized and we don't receive the Holy Spirit until we are water baptized.

 

[Arial]

Question, What is the reason for water baptism? Jesus commands the Apostles to teach and baptize so why baptize? What do the scriptures say baptism is about? I mean really Jesus would give the reason one must be water baptized wouldn't he so what was the reason Jesus gave?

Well, my friend, that goes into yet another digressive doctrinal issue, relating to covenant. Water baptism is a covenant sign, just as circumcision was a covenant sign in the old covenant. It identifies one as being in the new covenant, in Christ. Circumcision in the flesh marked the circumcised as covenant members, bringing them into that covenant relationship with God, and it was commanded. Water baptism represents one who identifies with the death and resurrection of the covenant mediator, Christ as a member of the New Covenant community in a covenant relationship with God.

As for John 3:3ff Did not Paul explain that this happened when one was baptized into Christ in Romans chapter six? Did he not spend the whole chapter explaining it how you die to sin and are born new in the spirit?

I already dealt heavily with Romans 6 and it was ignored so I am not going to do it again.