Trinity: The Divinity of Jesus

[Rella]

I would say that according to the bible, Jesus Christ is fully God and fully Man. He isn't half divine and half mortal.

Ok... I see your point. Yet where does it say that in the bible cause that would go a long way to shore up Jesus as God with the anti trin people.

I was thinking about , what is likely a scam, what I have been seeing about someone saying that Shroud of Turin they have gotten DNA off.

Of course that has not made it into the news so I am sure it is fake but while Mary would have had 2 XX chromosomes, it is doubtful the Holy Spirit had X and Y.

So to me that makes him half mortal.... ?

 

[Eleanor]

Ok... I see your point. Yet where does it say that in the bible cause that would go a long way to shore up Jesus as God with the anti trin people.

I was thinking about , what is likely a scam, what I have been seeing about someone saying that Shroud of Turin they have gotten DNA off.

Of course that has not made it into the news so I am sure it is fake but while Mary would have had 2 XX chromosomes, it is doubtful the Holy Spirit had X and Y.

So to me that makes him half mortal.... ?

Jesus had two natures, divine and human, in one person--fully human nature and fully divine nature.

The Trinity has three persons in one God.

 

[makesends]

Ok... I see your point. Yet where does it say that in the bible cause that would go a long way to shore up Jesus as God with the anti trin people.

I was thinking about , what is likely a scam, what I have been seeing about someone saying that Shroud of Turin they have gotten DNA off.

Of course that has not made it into the news so I am sure it is fake but while Mary would have had 2 XX chromosomes, it is doubtful the Holy Spirit had X and Y.

So to me that makes him half mortal.... ?

Even if it were not a scam that they found this phenomenon, it proves nothing about Christ. They have nothing but their notions of what the supposed man-god had to have been like, in order to draw such conclusions. They may as well go back to the Nephilim, and whoever's notions about that.

 

[Mr GLee]

ηλίθιος

?????

 

[Mr GLee]

Jesus had two natures, divine and human, in one person--fully human nature and fully divine nature.

The Trinity has three persons in one God.

God is not dying mankind.

God is supernatural without nature (beginning and end) he cannot be made know after the dead rudiments of this world .


Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

 

[David Lamb]

Ok... I see your point. Yet where does it say that in the bible cause that would go a long way to shore up Jesus as God with the anti trin people.

I was thinking about , what is likely a scam, what I have been seeing about someone saying that Shroud of Turin they have gotten DNA off.

Of course that has not made it into the news so I am sure it is fake but while Mary would have had 2 XX chromosomes, it is doubtful the Holy Spirit had X and Y.

So to me that makes him half mortal.... ?

It doesn't say those exact words, that Jesus Christ is fully God and fully Man. Nevertheless, there are places where we find that He is fully God. He said: "I and My Father are one." Then we have the opening of John's gospel:

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.” (Joh 1:1-3 NKJV)

As for Him being fully Man, His incarnation shows this so does this verse:

“For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all [points] tempted as [we are, yet] without sin.” (Heb 4:15 NKJV)

As God, He could not be tempted. As Man, He could. While on earth, He grew tired, experienced hunger and thirst, and died on the cross. Again, only possible if He is fully Man.

As for the matter of chromosomes, I have no doubt that God, Who created chromosomes in the first place, would have no problem in providing His Son with the normal number.

 

[Mr GLee]

It doesn't say those exact words, that Jesus Christ is fully God and fully Man. Nevertheless, there are places where we find that He is fully God. He said: "I and My Father are one." Then we have the opening of John's gospel:

The dynamic duo . .One in purpose.

The Father demonstrated his power through the Son of man Jesus dying mankind seen.

Jesus is not ashamed to call us brothers and sisters

Jesus the apostle prophet was given words from the father to call no man on earth Holy Father .

Matthew 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

Mark 3:35 For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.

Faithfull "let there be" Power to be born again as sons of God through the resurrection not earthly birth (dying flesh and blood)

 

[David Lamb]

The dynamic duo . .One in purpose.

What dynamic duo? The bible does not teach this.

The Father demonstrated his power through the Son of man Jesus dying mankind seen.

Jesus Christ is the Son of Man and the Son of God.

Jesus is not ashamed to call us brothers and sisters

True. And we (Christians) are described in the bible as sons of God:

“For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.” (Ga 3:26 NKJV)

Jesus the apostle prophet was given words from the father to call no man on earth Holy Father .

Jesus is not called an apostle in the bible. He is called a prophet, a priest and a king.

Matthew 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

Mark 3:35 For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.

Faithfull "let there be" Power to be born again as sons of God through the resurrection not earthly birth (dying flesh and blood)

He doesn't give us power to be born again. He gives us the new life we need.

Interesting that when Jesus Christ rose from the dead, He was visible in His risen state. He rose bodily from the dead.

 

[JIM]

Keeping in mind that Jesus is the Holy Spirit (2 Co 3:17).

I don't think that is what Paul was trying to say. But given that there is considerable controversy in phrases such as Spirit of God or Spirit of Jesus. This is probably not the place to get into that. I would refer you to some of the commentaries treating that verse. Consider, for example if you have access to it, what Albert Barnes writes about 2 Corinthians 3:17.

 

[Mr GLee]

Jesus Christ is the Son of Man and the Son of God.

Thanks Dave

Christ the anointing teaching Holy Spirit of the Holy Father worked in dying mankind the Son of man, Jesus. The son demonstrating the love of the unseen Holy Father. Just as the Holy Father works in you or anyone.

Power came after the resurrection not birth dying flesh and blood .

Romans 1:4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

Sons of God as Christians can honor Jesus for his part in the demonstration. But must worship the Father the "Let there be" power ,

The power to demonstrate His eternal labor of love. . . . the very good.

 

[makesends]

God is not dying mankind.

God is supernatural without nature (beginning and end) he cannot be made know after the dead rudiments of this world .


Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

A being's "nature" is more related to that being's "ontology", than it is a referral to what is "natural", say, to the universe. God has a nature --his nature. He does not have our nature.

Nevertheless, he took on flesh, became man. That man, Jesus the Messiah, was God become man. As God, he had a divine nature, but as man, he also had a human nature. It is good that you see a contradiction, because it is indeed a mystery to our minds how it can be so. I personally think that God has a riddle going on there, that when we see it we will think it hysterically funny, and wise --maybe even a riddle on the facts of what it means to be made in the image of God.

Mr GLee, there is much we do not know. But when Scripture combines the Son of God with the Son of Man, within the one being, (and yes, I agree the earthly flesh of Jesus Christ had a beginning --a conception-- ), it is so, whether it makes sense to us or not.

Note, however, that the flesh, which as you say, counts for nothing, is discarded like a tent, but then raised incorruptible, and glorified, as was Jesus Christ, what we humans consider "natural", (that is, "according to the ways of the universe"), died. Can you say that what was raised was according to the ways of the universe? No, not really. Yet, it was obviously material --that is, 'matter' in the natural sense. And still, Jesus Christ, our Savior and God.

 

[Eleanor]

God is not dying mankind.

God is supernatural without nature (beginning and end) he cannot be made know after the dead rudiments of this world .

God's nature is divine,
angels' nature is angelic, and
man's nature is human.

Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

 

[Eleanor]

I don't think that is what Paul was trying to say. But given that there is considerable controversy in phrases such as Spirit of God or Spirit of Jesus. This is probably not the place to get into that. I would refer you to some of the commentaries treating that verse. Consider, for example if you have access to it, what Albert Barnes writes about 2 Corinthians 3:17.

I like what @makesends says in post #60.

 

[Mr GLee]

A being's "nature" is more related to that being's "ontology", than it is a referral to what is "natural", say, to the universe. God has a nature --his nature. He does not have our nature.

Nevertheless, he took on flesh, became man. That man, Jesus the Messiah, was God become man. As God, he had a divine nature, but as man, he also had a human nature. It is good that you see a contradiction, because it is indeed a mystery to our minds how it can be so. I personally think that God has a riddle going on there, that when we see it we will think it hysterically funny, and wise --maybe even a riddle on the facts of what it means to be made in the image of God.

Mr GLee, there is much we do not know. But when Scripture combines the Son of God with the Son of Man, within the one being, (and yes, I agree the earthly flesh of Jesus Christ had a beginning --a conception-- ), it is so, whether it makes sense to us or not.

Note, however, that the flesh, which as you say, counts for nothing, is discarded like a tent, but then raised incorruptible, and glorified, as was Jesus Christ, what we humans consider "natural", (that is, "according to the ways of the universe"), died. Can you say that what was raised was according to the ways of the universe? No, not really. Yet, it was obviously material --that is, 'matter' in the natural sense. And still, Jesus Christ, our Savior and God.

Hi Thanks

The supernatural faithful Creator of a nature (beginnings) would of began . . "Let there be rudiments" and the light of his glory confirmed "the rudiment were very good"

I think it was Colossians is referring to.

Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

In that way things seen (rudiments) follow after the things not seen things of faith Christ's labor of love

Nevertheless, he took on flesh, became man. That man, Jesus the Messiah, was God become man. As God, he had a divine nature, but as man, he also had a human nature. It is good that you see a contradiction, because it is indeed a mystery to our minds how it can be so. I personally think that God has a riddle going on there, that when we see it we will think it hysterically funny, and wise --maybe even a riddle on the facts of what it means to be made in the image of God

Yes he hides the understanding of the mystery of parables the gospel news

 

[Mr GLee]

God's nature is divine,
angels' nature is angelic, and
man's nature is human.

God is not a Jewish man as King of kings, and neither is their any infallible interpreter (Pope) set between God not seen and man seen

Contradiction of terms .

Supernatural without "let there be" a beginning . . .

Not made after the rudiment this dying world

No such thing as angels or what some call patron saints (his and hers gods )

.Apostle "sent one" errand boys, special delivery . Not the fake word angel that was not coin until the 10th century by some dead Pope.

 

[David Lamb]

Thanks Dave

Christ the anointing teaching Holy Spirit of the Holy Father worked in dying mankind the Son of man, Jesus. The son demonstrating the love of the unseen Holy Father. Just as the Holy Father works in you or anyone.

Power came after the resurrection not birth dying flesh and blood .

Romans 1:4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

Sons of God as Christians can honor Jesus for his part in the demonstration. But must worship the Father the "Let there be" power ,

The power to demonstrate His eternal labor of love. . . . the very good.

Please, don't just keep saying things like, "Christ the anointing teaching Holy Spirit of the Holy Father worked in dying mankind the Son of man, Jesus." Tell us where the bible tells us that Christ is the teaching Holy Spirit working on the man Jesus. Over and over again, the bible talks of Jesus Christ, not Christ working on Jesus. Indeed in Acts 17 we read:

“Then Paul, as his custom was, went in to them, and for three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures, explaining and demonstrating that the Christ had to suffer and rise again from the dead, and [saying], "This Jesus whom I preach to you is the Christ."” (Ac 17:2-3 NKJV)

In Acts 18, we read:

“When Silas and Timothy had come from Macedonia, Paul was compelled by the Spirit, and testified to the Jews that Jesus is the Christ.” (Ac 18:5 NKJV)

“And when he desired to cross to Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him; and when he arrived, he greatly helped those who had believed through grace; for he vigorously refuted the Jews publicly, showing from the Scriptures that Jesus is the Christ.” (Ac 18:27-28 NKJV)

That's 3 times in two chapters. "Jesus is the Christ." Not "Christ worked in the dying Jesus." So please, don't just keep repeating the same thing. Show us from the bible. I have quoted 3 verses which say clearly, "Jesus is the Christ." You keep implying that Jesus isn't the Christ, but that Christ worked on Jesus. So how does that fit with Acts 17 and Acts saying 3 times that Jesus is the Christ?

 

[David Lamb]

God is not a Jewish man as King of kings, and neither is their any infallible interpreter (Pope) set between God not seen and man seen

Contradiction of terms .

Supernatural without "let there be" a beginning . . .

Not made after the rudiment this dying world

No such thing as angels or what some call patron saints (his and hers gods )

.Apostle "sent one" errand boys, special delivery . Not the fake word angel that was not coin until the 10th century by some dead Pope.

Eleanor never mentioned the pope. Why bring that into the discussion on the divinity of Jesus? Plenty of us are not Roman Catholics, so we don't believe in having a pope or anything like the pope,or patron saints, but we still believe that Jesus Christ is fully God and fully Man.

 

[makesends]

Hi Thanks

The supernatural faithful Creator of a nature (beginnings) would of began . . "Let there be rudiments" and the light of his glory confirmed "the rudiment were very good"

I think it was Colossians is referring to.

Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

In that way things seen (rudiments) follow after the things not seen things of faith Christ's labor of love


Yes he hides the understanding of the mystery of parables the gospel news

While I think your statements are useful for differentiating between material vs spiritual, and, like it, between human thinking vs God's truth, you are conflating two uses of 'rudiments'. You are also exposing firm statements of scripture to 'new' and speculative interpretations. 'Rudiments' is not the word used in Genesis, though the notion may be valid in some general way --at least in verse 2 and in the first day.

In your first mention of "rudiments", the word refers (whether you meant it this way or not) fundamental elements or undeveloped beginnings. In your second mention of "rudiments", (in Colossians 2:8), the word refers to mental principles, propositions, or even speculations. Basic assumptions the human mind makes --particularly, (I think), the kind of thinking that attributes solid reality to the temporal world, and worse, attributes validity to the grasp of the human mind concerning the facts.

By the way, also, the use of the word, 'philosophy', in Colossians 2:8, is not referring to philosophical argument-- though that, too, can be the empty or vain "human thinking" that it is referring to --that descends of a "mindset" based upon this world and the worth of the human and of human thought as though humanity is the purveyor of truth.

NIV "See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the elemental spiritual forces of this world rather than on Christ."

CEV "Don't let anyone fool you by using senseless arguments. These arguments may sound wise, but they are only human teachings. They come from the powers of this world and not from Christ."

 

[Mr GLee]

While I think your statements are useful for differentiating between material vs spiritual, and, like it, between human thinking vs God's truth, you are conflating two uses of 'rudiments'. You are also exposing firm statements of scripture to 'new' and speculative interpretations. 'Rudiments' is not the word used in Genesis, though the notion may be valid in some general way --at least in verse 2 and in the first day.

In your first mention of "rudiments", the word refers (whether you meant it this way or not) fundamental elements or undeveloped beginnings. In your second mention of "rudiments", (in Colossians 2:8), the word refers to mental principles, propositions, or even speculations. Basic assumptions the human mind makes --particularly, (I think), the kind of thinking that attributes solid reality to the temporal world, and worse, attributes validity to the grasp of the human mind concerning the facts.

By the way, also, the use of the word, 'philosophy', in Colossians 2:8, is not referring to philosophical argument-- though that, too, can be the empty or vain "human thinking" that it is referring to --that descends of a "mindset" based upon this world and the worth of the human and of human thought as though humanity is the purveyor of truth.

NIV "See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the elemental spiritual forces of this world rather than on Christ."

CEV "Don't let anyone fool you by using senseless arguments. These arguments may sound wise, but they are only human teachings. They come from the powers of this world and not from Christ."

Thanks

It's not so much the materiel historical temporal vs spiritual eternal invisible. But rather a mixing of the two then we can receive the gospel rest

Remember, we do not wrestle against the temporal dying things seen.

Colossians 2:verse 18 gives a better conclusion

Colossians 2: 18 Some people enjoy acting as if they are humble and love to worship angels. They always talk about the visions they have seen. Don’t listen to them when they say you are wrong because you don’t do these things. It is so foolish for them to feel such pride, because it is all based on their own human ideas.

 

[Viking123]

Yes, one true God whose Holy Spirit worked in and with his son of man Jesus.

We know them both by the power of the one unseen Father Christ. .. . . . the husband of the Christian bride.

Twisted.