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The Rapture

Not if you are allowing the church and men to teach you rather than proving everything the church and men taught you by His words in the KJV.

I believe "apostolic teachings" is how you learned of it by church or men and using it to block applying His words for how it opposes what you had learned by your church and other men.

You need to prove their teachings by Him; and not take it at face value.
The wisdom he gives me is that apostolic teaching is authoritative, while personal interpretation of prophetic riddles not clearly spoken (Nu 12:8)
and subject to ore than one interpretation, is not.

What makes your interpretation of prophetic riddle better than mine, when mine agrees with apostolic teaching and yours does not?

Feel free to show my error from apostolic teaching.
 
The wisdom he gives me is that apostolic teaching is authoritative, while personal interpretation of prophetic riddles not clearly spoken (Nu 12:8)
and subject to ore than one interpretation, is not.

What makes your interpretation of prophetic riddle better than mine, when mine agrees with apostolic teaching and yours does not?

Feel free to show my error from apostolic teaching.
When Jesus said this at the time He had said it; is it a prophetic riddle or not?

John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
 
When Jesus said this at the time He had said it; is it a prophetic riddle or not?

John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
The last day is the end of time and the church age.

Authoritative NT apostolic teaching is that the church (of both OT and NT saints, Ro 11:16-23) is
the last times and the end of the ages (1 Pe 1:20, Heb 1:2, 9:26),
the fulfillment of the ages (1 Co 10:11) and
God's new creation (2 Co 5:17, Gal 6:15) for eternity.
 
Watch the snarky comments, okay? Is Satan a literal seven headed dragon?

Yes?

Or

No?
Sorry you thought I was being `snarky.` I actually meant that if we don`t understand we ask God. Though I see it could be taken as not nice.

So, yes the 7 headed dragon is not literal. God tells us that the dragon is Satan. Thus, we know that the `7 heads` are symbolic and descriptive.

`So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan,..` (Rev. 12: 9)

And yes the `cattle on a thousand hills,` is literal, and comes with the whole earth being the Lord`s. (Ps. 24: 1)
 
The point was you agreed Isaac was the "type " and he was not. Thats my point. If you are wrong about Isaac as a type what else might you be wrong about as a type ?
Isaac was the type of the NT sacrifice, and the ram was a type of the OT sacrifice.
 
Revelation is prophetic riddle, not spoken clearly (Nu 12:8) and subject to more than one interpretation, the only rule being that interpretation must be in agreement with authoritative NT apostolic teaching.
You keep saying that personal interpretation is bad, but your personal interpretation is bad. You even have your own version of what you call authoritative NT apostolic teaching, and that there is some unspoken rule that this comes before God Himself. You sound like a supporter of the Catholic Church, which claims to be the holder and supporter of all truth pertaining to scripture. Just replace that NT apostolic teaching with "Catholic Church". A weapon to wield against anyone who doesn't agree with you.

The context of the verse you wrote is Aaron and Miriam vs. God and Moses. God tells Aaron and Miriam that if they have a prophet in their midst, God will speak to them... in dreams. However, God speaks to Moses directly, that is the relationship God has with Moses alone. He does not have that relationship with anyone else in the nation of Israel, just Moses. And when God speaks to Moses, it is clear and direct. In those dreams however, the prophet would have to deal with riddles. God is expressing His intense anger with Aaron and Miriam which was such that when God left, Miriam had full-blown leprosy. It wasn't just developing, it was in full swing and she was snow white. (That is a major change of skin tone for a Jewish person.)

So please, don't use your own personal agenda to reinterpret scripture. If you want to say that this covers all time, then consider that this verse would only matter if you were to say, attack your pastor's teachings. However, even your pastor does not have the relationship with God that Moses had. Elijah, Elisha, Jeremiah, Isaiah, Habbakuk, etc. all had a special relationship with God. God spoke directly and clearly with Elijah. And in fact, unlike Moses, Elijah never died.
I interpret that differently, that 1,000 years is figurative of the church age, and the first resurrection is from spiritual death to eternal life in the new birth. All those who do not take part in the first resurrection (new birth) rise to eternal judgment.
Likewise, the apostles teach that the church (of both OT and NT saints, Ro 11:16-23) is
the last times and the end of the ages (1 Pe 1:20, Heb 1:2, 9:26),
the fulfillment of the ages (1 Co 10:11) and
God's new creation (2 Co 5:17, Gal 6:15) for eternity.
Papias, who was a student of Polycarp who was the disciple of John taught that it was a 1000 year kingdom over the Jews. Eusebius, historian of the Catholic Church, and an amillennialist (not preterist at all) ridiculed Papias for believing such things, saying it was due to his age and that he probably forgot things. Eusebius gave no reason not to believe what Papias was saying, other than to question his intellectual abilities. Why? He had to. Again, this was someone who was the student of John's disciple, and had heard John speak. He also wrote about John.
God has no other plan on earth than his church, the body of Christ (Eph 5:30-32) and bride of the Lamb (Rev 21:9-14), the New Jerusalem.
And God has revealed no other plan for his church than his new creation, exceeding his original creation.
So why does God, through Paul, say He has a different plan than you say? Why do you hate the Jewish people so much that you want to shut them out of the Kingdom. The reason why Paul speaks about those who were added to the olive tree, but that God would gladly rip out again if they are non-producers, if they don't continue in Christ, is because they were bragging about the exclusion of the Jews. That is why Paul reminds them that they were only removed for unbelief. If they believe again, the natural branch of the olive tree will be added back. God has no issue simply removing the foreign branch. Remember again, Jesus said that there is another flock not a part of His fold that He needs to bring in. He was speaking of the Gentiles.
 
You keep saying that personal interpretation is bad, but your personal interpretation is bad. You even have your own version of what you call authoritative NT apostolic teaching, and that there is some unspoken rule that this comes before God Himself. You sound like a supporter of the Catholic Church, which claims to be the holder and supporter of all truth pertaining to scripture. Just replace that NT apostolic teaching with "Catholic Church". A weapon to wield against anyone who doesn't agree with you.
The context of the verse you wrote is Aaron and Miriam vs. God and Moses. God tells Aaron and Miriam that if they have a prophet in their midst, God will speak to them... in dreams. However, God speaks to Moses directly.
And there you have God's statement as to the nature of prophecy, how he gives prophecy to all but Moses, he gives it in riddles and not clearly (Nu 12:8). And it is those unclear riddles, subject to more than one interpretation, that are the basis of your theology which contradicts what is given clearly and not in riddles; i.e., authoritative NT apostolic teaching,

as in:
the church (of both OT and NT saints, Ro 11:16-23) is
the last times and the end of the ages (1 Pe 1:20, Heb 1:2, 9:26),
the fulfillment of the ages (1 Co 10:11) and
God's new creation (2 Co 5:17, Gal 6:15) for eternity;

or in:
Jesus locates the resurrection in the last day (John 6:39).
Paul locates the resurrection with the rapture (1 Thessalonians 4:16).
Jesus locates the rapture with the second coming (Matthew 24:39-41).
(The saints are caught up to meet the Lord in the clouds, whereupon they descend with him to earth for the Final Judgment.)
Jesus locates the second coming with the judgment of the sheep and goats (Matthew 25:31-33).
So why does God, through Paul, say He has a different plan than you say? Why do you hate the Jewish people so much that you want to shut them out of the Kingdom. The reason why Paul speaks about those who were added to the olive tree, but that God would gladly rip out again if they are non-producers,
It's not about being "producers," it's about being believers.
if they don't continue in Christ, is because they were bragging about the exclusion of the Jews.
Adding to the text--where do we find they were bragging?
 
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So why does God, through Paul, say He has a different plan than you say? Why do you hate the Jewish people so much that you want to shut them out of the Kingdom.
There is no kingdom as you propose.

Authoritative NT apostolic teaching is that the kingdom of God is now (Lk 11:20),
it is invisible and within (Lk 11:20-21) the hearts where he reigns and rules,
it is everlasting (Lk 1:33), therefore, there is no other kingdom of God,
it was set up at Christ's first coming - "in the time of those kings" (Da 2:40-43); i.e., the Roman empire (Da 2:40-43) which conquered the Greek empire (Da 2:39, 8:21). The messianic kingdom was set up during the past Roman empire, at the first coming of Christ (Mt 12:28).
 
There is no kingdom as you propose.

Authoritative NT apostolic teaching is that the kingdom of God is now (Lk 11:20),
it is invisible and within (Lk 11:20-21) the hearts where he reigns and rules,
it is everlasting (Lk 1:33), therefore, there is no other kingdom of God,
it was set up at Christ's first coming - "in the time of those kings" (Da 2:40-43); i.e., the Roman empire (Da 2:40-43) which conquered the Greek empire (Da 2:39, 8:21). The messianic kingdom was set up during the past Roman empire, at the first coming of Christ (Mt 12:28).
`The earth is the Lord`s and all its fullness, the world and those who dwell therein.` (Ps. 24)

God made the world and the universe etc. He never gave it away. The enemy, the usurper only has sway over people in darkness. (1 John 5: 19)

God rules over all - past, present and future. The kingdom of God is His rulership over all.
 
There is no kingdom as you propose.

Authoritative NT apostolic teaching is that the kingdom of God is now (Lk 11:20),
it is invisible and within (Lk 11:20-21) the hearts where he reigns and rules,
it is everlasting (Lk 1:33), therefore, there is no other kingdom of God,
it was set up at Christ's first coming - "in the time of those kings" (Da 2:40-43); i.e., the Roman empire (Da 2:40-43) which conquered the Greek empire (Da 2:39, 8:21). The messianic kingdom was set up during the past Roman empire, at the first coming of Christ (Mt 12:28).
`The earth is the Lord`s and all its fullness, the world and those who dwell therein.` (Ps. 24)
God made the world and the universe etc. He never gave it away. The enemy, the usurper only has sway over people in darkness. (1 John 5: 19)
God rules over all - past, present and future. The kingdom of God is His rulership over all.
Is that in disagreement with what I posted above?
 
And there you have God's statement as to the nature of prophecy, how he gives prophecy to all but Moses, he gives it in riddles and not clearly (Nu 12:8). And it is those unclear riddles, subject to more than one interpretation, that are the basis of your theology which contradicts what is given clearly and not in riddles; i.e., authoritative NT apostolic teaching,
Way to throw scripture out the window. He is telling Aaron and Miriam that if they have a prophet, he will talk to them in visions. God is telling Aaron and Miriam that HE does not accept THEM. They were trying to usurp Moses' position. God took the time to make His will known to them. He would not speak to Aaron and Miriam like He does with Moses. Even if they have a prophet, all they would get is riddles. Yet, God spoke to Elijah. God spoke to Nathan. God spoke to Samuel. This is not God's statement as to the nature of prophecy. This is God telling Aaron and Miriam that they will NEVER take Moses' place before God, because God won't allow it.
as in:
the church (of both OT and NT saints, Ro 11:16-23) is
the last times and the end of the ages (1 Pe 1:20, Heb 1:2, 9:26),
the fulfillment of the ages (1 Co 10:11) and
God's new creation (2 Co 5:17, Gal 6:15) for eternity;

or in:
Jesus locates the resurrection in the last day (John 6:39).
Paul locates the resurrection with the rapture (1 Thessalonians 4:16).
Jesus locates the rapture with the second coming (Matthew 24:39-41).
(The saints are caught up to meet the Lord in the clouds, whereupon they descend with him to earth for the Final Judgment.)
Jesus locates the second coming with the judgment of the sheep and goats (Matthew 25:31-33).

It's not about being "producers," it's about being believers.

Adding to the text--where do we find they were bragging?
"17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became a partaker with them of the [f]rich root of the olive tree, 18 do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast against them, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 Quite right! They were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be haughty, but fear, 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 For if you were cut off from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these who are the natural branches be grafted into their own olive tree?"

To boast is to brag. The bragging is right there. Paul is warning against it, but you hear it too often today in things like Replacement Theology, which says that the church has usurped the position of Israel. Paul just spent this section of Romans 11 warning against that.
 
There is no kingdom as you propose.

Authoritative NT apostolic teaching is that the kingdom of God is now (Lk 11:20),
it is invisible and within (Lk 11:20-21) the hearts where he reigns and rules,
it is everlasting (Lk 1:33), therefore, there is no other kingdom of God,
it was set up at Christ's first coming - "in the time of those kings" (Da 2:40-43); i.e., the Roman empire (Da 2:40-43) which conquered the Greek empire (Da 2:39, 8:21). The messianic kingdom was set up during the past Roman empire, at the first coming of Christ (Mt 12:28).
Do you not know of the Kingdom of God? It is ALL OVER THE NEW TESTAMENT. Jesus speaks to it. Paul speaks to it. You are shutting Israel out of it. What part of that do you not understand.
 
Do you not know of the Kingdom of God? It is ALL OVER THE NEW TESTAMENT. Jesus speaks to it. Paul speaks to it. You are shutting Israel out of it. What part of that do you not understand.
`The earth is the Lord`s and all its fullness, the world and those who dwell therein.` (Ps. 24)

God made the world and the universe etc. He never gave it away. The enemy, the usurper only has sway over people in darkness. (1 John 5: 19)

God rules over all - past, present and future. The kingdom of God is His rulership over all.

When Jesus was manifest on earth, He talked about `the kingdom/rule of God ` in people`s lives. That was because the enemy had sway over them and they needed to heed God and obey His rulership in their heart.
 
Is that in disagreement with what I posted above?

Authoritative NT apostolic teaching is that the kingdom of God is now (Lk 11:20),
it is invisible and within (Lk 11:20-21) the hearts where he reigns and rules,
it is everlasting (Lk 1:33), therefore, there is no other kingdom of God,
it was set up at Christ's first coming - "in the time of those kings" (Da 2:40-43); i.e., the Roman empire (Da 2:40-43) which conquered the Greek empire (Da 2:39, 8:21). The messianic kingdom was set up during the past Roman empire, at the first coming of Christ (Mt 12:28).
You have not understood that the kingdom/rule of God has been and will be forever.

What you are referring to in Dan. 2: 40 - 43 is God`s rule (kingdom) through Israel over the nations as promised.
 
There is no kingdom as you propose.

Authoritative NT apostolic teaching is that the kingdom of God is now (Lk 11:20),
it is invisible and within (Lk 11:20-21) the hearts where he reigns and rules,
it is everlasting (Lk 1:33), therefore, there is no other kingdom of God,
it was set up at Christ's first coming - "in the time of those kings" (Da 2:40-43); i.e., the Roman empire (Da 2:40-43) which conquered the Greek empire (Da 2:39, 8:21). The messianic kingdom was set up during the past Roman empire, at the first coming of Christ (Mt 12:28).
Who taught you this subject regarding "Authoritative NT apostolic teaching"?

How do you apply some scripture as "Authoritative NT apostolic teaching: and not others because you deem them as prophetic riddles?
 
Way to throw scripture out the window. He is telling Aaron and Miriam that if they have a prophet, he will talk to them in visions. God is telling Aaron and Miriam that HE does not accept THEM.
Granted, the burden of Nu 12:5-8 is not the nature of prophecy, rather that is a take-away from God's explanation that while he gives prophecy clearly to Moses, he does not do so to other prophets, but gives it to to them in riddles (dark sayings) which are not spoken clearly as he speaks to Moses.
God states in Nu 12:8 that he gives prophecy in riddles and not clearly.
And those riddles not spoken clearly are the basis of your eschatology, which contradicts authoritative NT apostolic teaching, as previously shown (post #736).
"17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became a partaker with them of the [f]rich root of the olive tree, 18 do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast against them,
That is not a statement that they are boasting, that is a warning not to do so.
remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 Quite right! They were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be haughty, but fear, 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.
And that is a statement of the foundational principle of the gospel, which applies to all mankind. salvation is only by faith.
23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 For if you were cut off from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these who are the natural branches be grafted into their own olive tree?"

To boast is to brag. The bragging is right there. Paul is warning against it,
Yes, Paul is warning against it, but he nowhere states that it exists (demonstrated above).
It is plainly a hypothetical statement of Paul regarding what they might say, a form of warning as argument, which you wish to make an actual occurrence.
 
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Do you not know of the Kingdom of God? It is ALL OVER THE NEW TESTAMENT. Jesus speaks to it. Paul speaks to it. You are shutting Israel out of it. What part of that do you not understand.
Indeed! It is here now, we are in it! It is everlasting, and there is no other to come.

Authoritative NT apostolic teaching is that the kingdom of God is now (Lk 11:20),
it is invisible and within (Lk 11:20-21) the hearts where he reigns and rules,
it is everlasting (Lk 1:33), therefore, there is no other kingdom of God,
it was set up at Christ's first coming - "in the time of those kings" (Da 2:40-43); i.e., the Roman empire (Da 2:40-43) which conquered the Greek empire (Da 2:39, 8:21). The messianic kingdom was set up during the past Roman empire, at the first coming of Christ (Mt 12:28).
 
You have not understood that the kingdom/rule of God has been and will be forever.

What you are referring to in Dan. 2: 40 - 43 is God`s rule (kingdom) through Israel over the nations as promised.
The kingdom of Da 2:40-43 came "in the time of those kings."
Which kings? In the time of those kings of the Roman empire which conquered the Greek empire (Da 2:39, 8:21), i.e., in the time of Jesus' first coming.
The Messianic kingdom was set up during the past Roman empire, at the first coming of Christ (Mt 12:28).
It is here now (Lk 11:20), and it is everlasting (Da 2:44), there is no other, nor will there ever be any other kingdom.
We are living in the Messianic kingdom of Da 2:40-43 now.
 
Who taught you this subject regarding "Authoritative NT apostolic teaching"?

How do you apply some scripture as "Authoritative NT apostolic teaching: and not others because you deem them as prophetic riddles?
What Jesus' apostles teach in the NT is authoritative for the church.

Personal interpretation of prophetic riddles not spoken clearly (Nu 12:8) and subject to more than one interpretation (the only rule being they must be in agreement with authoritative NT apostolic teaching) are not authoritative but speculative and, when measured against apostolic teaching, they are in contradiction to it. God's word does not contradict itself. Those interpretations are incorrect.
I interpret those riddles differently than you do, and my interpretation is in agreement with apostolic teaching, where yours is not.
 
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