The Rapture

[Eleanor]

I would say that I am. I think Eschatology such as Amillenialism is not Covenant Theology...

I would unhitch them...

It is perfect covenant theology in that a millennium is nowhere presented in NT apostolic teaching, but only in figurative prophecy, which is subject to more than one interpretation, the only rule being interpretation must be according to NT apostolic teaching, which teaching does not present it.
The only interpretation in agreement with NT apostolic teaching is that it is figurative for the church age (1,000 being the fullness/completion of time) preceding the end of time.

 

[Deleted member 6]

So you’re an Amil? Or Postmil?

Sounds like post-trib pre-mill, IOW, Historic Premillennialism.

 

[Leonard03782]

It is perfect covenant theology in that a millennium is nowhere presented in NT apostolic teaching, but only in figurative prophecy, which is subject to more than one interpretation, the only rule being interpretation must be according to NT apostolic teaching, which teaching does not present it.
The only interpretation in agreement with NT apostolic teaching is that it is figurative for the church age (1,000 being the fullness/completion of time) preceding the end of time.

Really? Then why didn't Jesus teach it? Why not Paul? Peter? John? All you have is the tradition of man leaning on his own understanding.

 

[Leonard03782]

I don't see anything in the NT regarding Israel's future other than their destiny of being grafted back into the one olive tree of God's people, the church, going all the way back to Abraham (Ro 11:16-23), IF (not "when") they do not persist in unbelief, which they have for 2,000 years now, and counting.

"Church" was first mentioned in the Scriptures in Matthew 16:18 then again in Matt 18. Not one mention of it beforehand.

 

[Leonard03782]

@Wordsmith

This wasn’t exhaustive, but if you seek further clarification, I’ll do my best and dig deeper. I just didn’t want to hit you with a tsunami of a post or posts

You are not digging. You are building a pile of manure. Tell us what your credentials are. If you are not qualified, please stop wasting your time and ours.

 

[Leonard03782]

I too like Carbon used to believe this but it is not scriptural. There is no secret disappearance of believers anywhere in scripture.

It is not a secret. People just refuse to believe it. It is in plain sight, right underneath your nose.

 

[Eleanor]

Really? Then why didn't Jesus teach it? Why not Paul? Peter? John? All you have is the tradition of man leaning on his own understanding.w

You expect Jesus, Paul, Peter and John to teach the book of Revelation?

 

[Eleanor]

"Church" was first mentioned in the Scriptures in Matthew 16:18 then again in Matt 18. Not one mention of it beforehand.

Your point?

The one olive tree of God's people in the NT (Ro 11) is the church.
It is that olive tree into which they will be grafted back, IF (not "when") they do not persist in unbelief (Ro 11:23), in which they have persisted for 2,000 years now, and counting.

 

[Leonard03782]

You expect Jesus, Paul, Peter and John to teach the book of Revelation?

NO, but if this what you claim,

Eleanor said:
The only interpretation in agreement with NT apostolic teaching is that it is figurative for the church age (1,000 being the fullness/completion of time) preceding the end of time.

then I would have expected to see written in the Scriptures.

 

[Leonard03782]

Your point?

The one olive tree of God's people in the NT (Ro 11) is the church.
It is that olive tree into which they will be grafted back, IF (not "when") they do not persist in unbelief (Ro 11:23), in which they have persisted for 2,000 years now, and counting.

The Jews preceded the church. Jews were the first people to become members of the church. Christianity is built on and finishes Judaism.

 

[Eleanor]

NO, but if this what you claim,

then I would have expected to see written in the Scriptures.

The book of Revelation was written years after the other Scriptures.

How would they know about a figurative vision of John in the future?

And there is certainly nothing in NT aposoolic teaching that corresponds to a literal interpretation of Rev 20.

 

[civic]

It is perfect covenant theology in that a millennium is nowhere presented in NT apostolic teaching, but only in figurative prophecy, which is subject to more than one interpretation, the only rule being interpretation must be according to NT apostolic teaching, which teaching does not present it.
The only interpretation in agreement with NT apostolic teaching is that it is figurative for the church age (1,000 being the fullness/completion of time) preceding the end of time.

Eschatology and Covenant theology go hand in hand together much like the doctrines of grace and Soteriology go hand in hand together.

 

[Marilyn C]

The Jews preceded the church. Jews were the first people to become members of the church. Christianity is built on and finishes Judaism.

`Now I say that Jesus Christ has become a servant to the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made to the fathers.` (Rom. 15: 8)

And one of these promises was that Israel would rule the nations of the world. (Dan. 7: 27)

God did not plan and create a new nation, (Israel) and work with them for over 2,500 years to then disregard them. God`s purposes do not depend on man but on God Himself. He will bring about His eternal purposes for - the Body of Christ, for Israel and for the nations.

 

[Eleanor]

Eschatology and Covenant theology go hand in hand together much like the doctrines of grace and Soteriology go hand in hand together.

Well, I don't know that much about covenant theology, so I can't really evaluate that statement.

 

[Leonard03782]

`Now I say that Jesus Christ has become a servant to the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made to the fathers.` (Rom. 15: 8)

And one of these promises was that Israel would rule the nations of the world. (Dan. 7: 27)

God did not plan and create a new nation, (Israel) and work with them for over 2,500 years to then disregard them. God`s purposes do not depend on man but on God Himself. He will bring about His eternal purposes for - the Body of Christ, for Israel and for the nations.

View attachment 153

There is a sane person on this thread!!! Thank you JESUS!!!

 

[Deleted member 5]

NO, but if this what you claim,



then I would have expected to see written in the Scriptures.

Hello Leonard! I am wondering, do you think 1000 is used figuratively in Scripture, or literally?

 

[Deleted member 5]

There is a sane person on this thread!!! Thank you JESUS!!!

`Now I say that Jesus Christ has become a servant to the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made to the fathers.` (Rom. 15: 8)

And one of these promises was that Israel would rule the nations of the world. (Dan. 7: 27)

God did not plan and create a new nation, (Israel) and work with them for over 2,500 years to then disregard them. God`s purposes do not depend on man but on God Himself. He will bring about His eternal purposes for - the Body of Christ, for Israel and for the nations.

View attachment 153

Romans 11:15?

 

[Leonard03782]

The book of Revelation was written years after the other Scriptures.

How would they know about a figurative vision of John in the future?

And there is certainly nothing in NT aposoolic teaching that corresponds to a literal interpretation of Rev 20.

SO,.........Are you implying that the Holy Spirit did NOT author the NT? Or the book of Revelation? Who are you to tell me that God cannot reveal truth however HE chooses?

 

[Eleanor]

SO,.........Are you implying that the Holy Spirit did NOT author the NT? Or the book of Revelation? Who are you to tell me that God cannot reveal truth however HE chooses?

It's not a matter of can/cannot, it's a matter of did/did not.

 

[Marilyn C]

Romans 11:15?

And the timing of that?