The Rapture/Resurrection of the Church is near.

[Eleanor]

When you can show Jesus left on a white horse....get back to me.

How about when you can show that all prophecy is literal, contrary to what God told Miriam in Nu 12:8 about his speaking in riddles (dark sayings) and not clearly in prophecy, you get back to me.

 

[CrowCross]

How about when you can show that all prophecy is literal, contrary to what God told Miriam in Nu 12:8 about his speaking in riddles (dark sayings) and not clearly in prophecy, you get back to me.

Soooooooooooooo, the white horse has you stumped. Now you are trying to move the goal post.

Show me where Jesus left on a WHITE HORSE.

 

[makesends]

Soooooooooooooo, the white horse has you stumped. Now you are trying to move the goal post.

Show me where Jesus left on a WHITE HORSE.

That's YOUR parameter. She's been talking about prophecy being riddles and hidden facts all along, and YOU are the one demanding she do something about a white horse.

@Eleanor is rather plainly saying what I have been saying for quite a while now, that when someone produces some certain narrative in their mind, and presents it as fact, particularly when it is interpretation of prophetic events and utterances, their narrative is suspect. She wants you to show for sure that what you are driving at is Scripture, and not prophetic riddles, before she is willing to entertain your narrative.

 

[CrowCross]

That's YOUR parameter. She's been talking about prophecy being riddles and hidden facts all along, and YOU are the one demanding she do something about a white horse.

@Eleanor is rather plainly saying what I have been saying for quite a while now, that when someone produces some certain narrative in their mind, and presents it as fact, particularly when it is interpretation of prophetic events and utterances, their narrative is suspect. She wants you to show for sure that what you are driving at is Scripture, and not prophetic riddles, before she is willing to entertain your narrative.

Read Acts one. What did the angels tell the guys standing there watching Jesus ascend?

 

[makesends]

Read Acts one. What did the angels tell the guys standing there watching Jesus ascend?

Now who's shifting the goalposts? just messing with ya, brother.

But, ok, what's your point? Do you think @Eleanor disagrees with them saying that Jesus will return in the same manner as they saw him ascend? Do you think that verse clinches everything else in your narrative?

 

[CrowCross]

Now who's shifting the goalposts? just messing with ya, brother.

But, ok, what's your point? Do you think @Eleanor disagrees with them saying that Jesus will return in the same manner as they saw him ascend? Do you think that verse clinches everything else in your narrative?

It's hard to keep track of everyones position...I'll have to start jotting it down...but, besides the white horse there is also the verse about the days of Noah.
Let's start here....at the end of the 7 year tribulation the earth will be in utter turmoil. If you were alive at the beginning of the trib you probably didn't make it to the end. Basically you won't be having a real good time.

The bible tells us..."As it was in the days of Noah, so will it be at the coming of the Son of Man"....What was one of the identifications of the days of Noah? "For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark."........do you think the conditions mentioned above best fit a pre-trib or post-trib world? Me? I'm going with pre-trib.

 

[makesends]

It's hard to keep track of everyones position...I'll have to start jotting it down...but, besides the white horse there is also the verse about the days of Noah.
Let's start here....at the end of the 7 year tribulation the earth will be in utter turmoil. If you were alive at the beginning of the trib you probably didn't make it to the end. Basically you won't be having a real good time.

The bible tells us..."As it was in the days of Noah, so will it be at the coming of the Son of Man"....What was one of the identifications of the days of Noah? "For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark."........do you think the conditions mentioned above best fit a pre-trib or post-trib world? Me? I'm going with pre-trib.

Look, brother. You know I've defended you on other sites, forums and threads. I'm not even saying you are wrong here. I am only opposing your apparent tendency to come up with a narrative that works (to your mind) and to present it as THE TRUTH. (You will remember that I have done the same thing about Gen 6.)

As far as I can tell, all @Eleanor is doing is for the same purpose. She doesn't claim to have all the answers, and is only trying to poke holes in your narrative so you can see what you are doing. She keeps repeating that prophecy is unclear, and riddles, and even provides Scripture to that effect.

 

[CrowCross]

Look, brother. You know I've defended you on other sites, forums and threads. I'm not even saying you are wrong here. I am only opposing your apparent tendency to come up with a narrative that works (to your mind) and to present it as THE TRUTH. (You will remember that I have done the same thing about Gen 6.)

As far as I can tell, all @Eleanor is doing is for the same purpose. She doesn't claim to have all the answers, and is only trying to poke holes in your narrative so you can see what you are doing. She keeps repeating that prophecy is unclear, and riddles, and even provides Scripture to that effect.

Thanks for the reply. What I have done is presented scripture that "contradicts" some of the current eschatology views.
I have asked....about Jesus leaving on a white horse.
I have asked about the "good times" of the days of Noah.
I have asked for the historical evidence revelations has already happened.

I believe these are fair questions.

 

[TATII]

However...I see a few issues here with CrowCross's conclusions...for example…much or even all of what is on the list of 15 is the work of the dragon and his beast...which is being carried out by humans on the earth today...but...CrowCross states...that the "mark of the beast" is not yet here?

Yes, the mark of the beast and the surrounding technology has not been set up as of yet.

If one believes that the dragon’s beast is not here…then yes…I can understand the thinking that the mark of the beast is not here either. However if the foundational premise “the dragon’s beast is not here” is incorrect every subsequent opinion is based upon a fallacy…I think everyone understands that principal…most just never question the source of their understanding.

Being "raptured out pre-trib" is such a safe, comfortable and easy way to believe...those who believe this way...have no need to spiritually mature...thus being conformed to the full stature of Christ Himself is not required.

Another nice thing about that belief is...the potential of having to sacrifice ones life is nowhere in that picture...we just go merrily off to heaven and hang out with the Lord and there is no sacrifice required...yeh...thats the gospel of the Kingdom of God and...it follows the model given us by the Lord Yahshua Christ Himself...right?

The serpent deceived Eve and she ate…then gave some to Adam who followed suit. The first born of Adam and Eve was “Cain…the man.” Cain was the first fruits of the fall…of his parents…what kind of “man” was Cain? Cain was a killer, Cain the tiller of the ground, Cain who offered to God what “he” had decided was an adequate offering to appease God and was rejected. Cain who murdered his brother…righteous Abel.

Cain is the first to murder the righteous…which was his brother…no less…that CrowCross is one of the primary characteristics of the mark of the beast. He was the first man “marked by God”…and it was not the seal of God with which he was “marked.” John wrote of this “man”…”Cain who was of the wicked one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his works were evil and his brother's righteous.” 1st John 3:12 NKJV

Paul says it like this in Romans 8…“Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.”

All believers who do not understand that “the carnal mind…those in the flesh…who do not have the Spirit of Christ”…are “not in Christ”…are being influenced by the dragon. They learn to think like him…they act and live like him…they begin to look like him…his "mark on the forehead...thought process or mindset" and these become one in the same which ultimately leads one to believe he is God. This one will follow the systems "mark on the hand...your economy...what you do to provide for and protect for yourself" of the beast and be lead to worship the beast like “all who dwell on the earth.”

This is the "mark of the beast" plain and simple and it’s been here since the murder of righteous Able. The control the beast has been gaining over humanity throughout the millennia since…is soon to be over the entire earth. This will be the fulfillment and implementation of not being able to buy or sell...“except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.”

In Rome in the first century “non-Roman citizens - Jews” for example were routinely exempt from buying and selling in the Roman economy…so…that has actually and factually happed in cities and nations all along…the next step is for the dragon to enforce his economy globally via the systems of the beast…I contend…this is what most of your list of 15 is…CrowCross.

If you control the minds of men [mark on the forehead] …and you restrict their economy [mark on the hand]…there is no need for any kind of physical mark…their minds are co-opted and so are their lives. This is how the dragon has continually grown his capacity to rule over the nations of the earth…hence…they are marked by the beast. They will obey anything willfully so as to secure their provision and protection…frightfully attending their fear of not having enough is the motivator.

You will experience this way to soon for your liking if you live on a bit here. The Lord Yahshua is not coming...He is already here folks who believe like you do not understand this.

Tatwo...

 

[Carbon]

Soooooooooooooo, the white horse has you stumped. Now you are trying to move the goal post.

Show me where Jesus left on a WHITE HORSE.

Jesus didn't leave on a white horse, He will not return on one either. As a matter of fact, there will be no white horse involved whatsoever.

 

[Carbon]

Read Acts one. What did the angels tell the guys standing there watching Jesus ascend?

I think we all know what they said. Why are you asking?

 

[Carbon]

Read Acts one. What did the angels tell the guys standing there watching Jesus ascend?

I think they checked if they wanted a refill of coffee?

 

[makesends]

Thanks for the reply. What I have done is presented scripture that "contradicts" some of the current eschatology views.
I have asked....about Jesus leaving on a white horse.
I have asked about the "good times" of the days of Noah.
I have asked for the historical evidence revelations has already happened.

I believe these are fair questions.

Not saying they aren't fair questions. But all in good turn.

And if all you are doing is poking holes in some of the current eschatological views, I'm right there with ya, (well, not quite, since I don't excel in that study —actually, I'm bewildered and clueless), because I don't like people talking like they have it all figured out.

 

[CrowCross]

Being "raptured out pre-trib" is such a safe, comfortable and easy way to believe...those who believe this way...have no need to spiritually mature...thus being conformed to the full stature of Christ Himself is not required.

False.

Another nice thing about that belief is...the potential of having to sacrifice ones life is nowhere in that picture..

False.

This is the "mark of the beast" plain and simple and it’s been here since the murder of righteous Able

False. This doesn't fit the description.

In Rome in the first century “non-Roman citizens - Jews” for example were routinely exempt from buying and selling in the Roman economy

False. This doesn't fit the description.

Which one would you like to discuss? I'm not doing all of them at once.

 

[CrowCross]

Jesus didn't leave on a white horse, He will not return on one either. As a matter of fact, there will be no white horse involved whatsoever.

You're right. No white horse. I just got out my markie and drew a line through that portion of scripture that depicts Jesus returning on a white horse.

 

[CrowCross]

I think they checked if they wanted a refill of coffee?

Speak up a bit louder...your voice is getting a little, um, er, ... horse.

 

[Josheb]

The Rapture/Resurrection of the Church is near

How near, exactly?

What, specifically, do you mean by "near"? Would you please tell us how much time we have to prepare.

 

[CrowCross]

How near, exactly?

What, specifically, do you mean by "near"? Would you please tell us how much time we have to prepare.

In another verse I spoke of a window of opportunity.

Technology moves on....For instance if the mark mentioned in Rev. 13 was based upon vacuum tube technology like state of the art technology once was and the rapture didn't happen when the worlds technology relied on vacuum tubes one could say that window closed back in the 1970's as the transistor took over.
Currently we have the technology to read a "mark" and tie it into a centralized system that can be controlled on a world wide basics. All that is needed is a one world government to connect it and a means of enforcing it.
Is this "system" ready to go? Right now? I say no. But almost.
If the current technology doesn't deliver the above....and we move past the current technology and into a realm where a one world government, religion and power can no longer be established we could then say the window has closed.
Can one put a time stamp on that? I say, not really....but look how far we have come since Marconi. I joke with the kids when I see them talking into their wrist watch....and tell them Dick Tracy was doing that back in the 1940's.

 

[CrowCross]

How near, exactly?

What, specifically, do you mean by "near"? Would you please tell us how much time we have to prepare.

Also....I think we need to go back to the OP which shows just how near we are;

I think we can look at prophecy, news, technology, etc. to help us present a "window".

Here's 15 off the top of my head.

For example Israel becoming a nation again is one indicator.
The Ezekiel nation alignment is a second. Russia aligning with Iran, Turkey and the other nations mentioned in that text. Sometimes it's hard to convert from the old nation names to the current nation names. Currently those nations appear to be aligned against Israel.
3.....Technology has been developed that would allow for the mark of the Beast to be employed. It's not quite there but almost there.
4....The Gospel pretty much has been preached to the entire world.
5....The NWO, UN as well as the WEF are working on a one world Government.
6....Plans for the new Temple in Israel are well under way.
7....A "peace treaty" known as the Abrahamic accord has been drafted.
8....The "like the days of Noah" is pretty much here. Transhumanism is being developed and rolled out.
9....AI currently is becoming closer to the "singularity. Rev 13:15 may be the singularity.
10...Peole are traveling to and fro..and knowledge is increasing at a startling rate.
11...A one world currency is being established.
12.... UN "peace and security" statue.
13...Many false Churches.
14....Wars and rumors of Wars. Though this seem to have always been happening.
15....Earthquakes in diverse places? I don't know if I would count the many "small" earthquakes but would expect to hear of major earthquakes happening every month or perhaps every week.

Currently we seem to be in that window.

Can anyone add to the list?

Luke 21:28...And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh. KJV

 

[Josheb]

In another verse I spoke of a window of opportunity.

Technology moves on....For instance if the mark mentioned in Rev. 13 was based upon vacuum tube technology like state of the art technology once was and the rapture didn't happen when the worlds technology relied on vacuum tubes one could say that window closed back in the 1970's as the transistor took over.
Currently we have the technology to read a "mark" and tie it into a centralized system that can be controlled on a world wide basics. All that is needed is a one world government to connect it and a means of enforcing it.
Is this "system" ready to go? Right now? I say no. But almost.
If the current technology doesn't deliver the above....and we move past the current technology and into a realm where a one world government, religion and power can no longer be established we could then say the window has closed.
Can one put a time stamp on that? I say, not really....but look how far we have come since Marconi. I joke with the kids when I see them talking into their wrist watch....and tell them Dick Tracy was doing that back in the 1940's.

Great. Thank you for that additional information. To the best of your ability, when is the rapture of the Chruch going to happen? How much time do you think we have to prepare?