The Rapture/Resurrection of the Church is near.

[Arial]

It's in the news just about everyday.(this is from today) It might not be talked about directly or presented the same way every time...but it's there.

So what Crow?! Does that make your theories true?

 

[Arial]

Because the subject of the days of Noah isn't just about the suddenness of Jesus coming.

This is so exasperating. Did I say it was?

 

[Arial]

The purpose of the temple is for Jewish worship...the anti-christ will also stand in the future temple and declare himself as God.

While Jesus is in control and reigning?! Does that sound plausible?

 

[Mr GLee]

God will not abide in that temple. The Jews think He will...but the anti-christ will declare himself to be God in this temple.

Second coming.? Christ is here working in sons of God he will not leave until the last day under the Sun .

Gods Holy Spirit has always dwelt in a human living temples not made with the dying hands as a will of mankind .

In Exodus he used his people as his living temple as a ceremonial law, a sign to the unbelieving world. Moving the demonstration from one city to another for 40 years until they reached the promised land .

During the 40 years many Jews became jealous of all the surrounding pagan nation whose foundation is .Out of sight out of mind as in who in there right mind would worship a invisible God .

Christ gave them over to do that which they should not of until the first century reformation spoken of in Hebrew 9.
setting that period of time Kings in Israel a abomination of desolation as a parable hiding the spiritual gospel understanding from those who seek after a fleshly God.

 

[CrowCross]

So what Crow?! Does that make your theories true?

For prophecy watchers...it make it extremely probable.

 

[CrowCross]

While Jesus is in control and reigning?! Does that sound plausible?

Though Jesus is God and technically is reigning and always has reigned...it won't be until the actual second coming that he physically reigns on earth.

 

[TATII]

Before I respond to this I will first mention something in reference to the title. It asserts that there is a pre-trib, pre-mil rapture without first establishing that there is such a thing as this rapture or a seven year tribulation. But to continue.

Greetings @Arial...nice to "talk" to you again...

I have read this entire forum...all of it...and...I see and understand your...umm...discontentment and perhaps frustration...is how I will frame it...clarify if you so chose.

Your statement above concerning what you call a "pre-trib, pre-mil rapture seven year tribulation" is spot on...as you suggested...establishing the basis of these, is a requirement for the furthering of this discussion...perhaps you should have left it at that? Just an after thought now...for future consideration?

Given that the "Truth" of the matter at hand is founded in the invisible spirit realm...the Kingdom of God...most of the religious rely upon "human reason" [the immature and carnal] for their interpretation of the Scripture and are very accomplished at making it flow with how they chose to believe...it's called deception...it is the religious order of the day...and even if they knew that...the record shows that it is highly unlikely that they repent.

Here is something to consider...the title of this forum is "The Rapture/Resurrection of the Church is near." In which the author @CrowCross posits that there is presently a "window" of time in which these stated events are/can occur.

Then after listing 15 various proofs for "The Rapture/Resurrection of the Church is near"...the author states...quote..."Currently we seem to be in that window." I suppose that without stating the "duration?" of the "window"...the author's conclusion is not actually attached to anything tangible time wise...other than "their" perceived status of the 15 proofs listed...which when pulled together for assessment seems completely subjective…really.

This is fine by me...as I may read and understand what is being presented...I receive it as...merely one’s observations and opinions...that may or may not play out as CrowCross suggests…the one who owns these words.

I agree that some of what "CrowCross" posted in the list of 15 are actually progressing...things like...Israel is a nation, one world government, plans for a temple, AI, UN "peace and security" false churches, wars and rumors of wars, earthquakes and there are more...which is what was asked for…for me that’s enough.

However...I see a few issues here with CrowCross's conclusions...for example…much or even all of what is on the list of 15 is the work of the dragon and his beast...which is being carried out by humans on the earth today...but...CrowCross states...that the "mark of the beast" is not yet here?

The question here would be...if the "motb is not” here...whose mark are these obviously evil slaves of destructive darkness carrying...surely not the mark of God...right? I have only seen two marks in the Scripture...this is because there are only two "spirit kingdoms" in creation...you are in one or the other as designated by God and represented by the corresponding "mark."

The picture the "list of 15" paints are...one of great and powerful authority being exerted upon the earth over a very long period of time. As though there is a powerful ruling king upon his throne systematically extending his rule over the entire earth as his kingdom. This is reminiscent of both Daniel 7 and Revelation 13.

"Thus he said: 'The fourth beast will be a fourth kingdom on the earth, which will be different from all the other kingdoms and will devour the whole earth and tread it down and crush it." Daniel 7:23 NASB

"I saw one of his heads as if it had been slain, and his fatal wound was healed. And the whole earth was amazed and followed after the beast; (4) they worshiped the dragon because he gave his authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, "Who is like the beast, and who is able to wage war with him?" Revelation 13:3-4 NASB

Lastly concerning the list of 15...is that...here is CrowCross setting a time frame for the "rapture/resurrection" like so many have before...so CrowCross is on the record for "their" belief…meaning that their prophetic and eschatological credibility is on the line…and there is a judgment for falsely prophesying.

While I can agree with much of the list of 15...there is nothing about that list that adds up to the outcome CrowCross is presenting…among other oversights some of which I pointed out.

It’s just noise from a clanging cymbal Arial which is what you similarly indicated in the beginning.

Tatwo...

 

[donadams]

The rapture concept defeats yhe second coming of Christ!

Matt 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

The rapture is a new doctrine originated in the “burned over district” in the 1800’s

Thks

 

[Eleanor]

They saw him coming in his kingdom before he even left?

Well, his kingdom is here and now (Mt 12:28, Lk 11:20),
spiritual, invisible (Lk 17:20) and within (Lk 17:21) the hearts where he reigns and rules.

 

[Eleanor]

The rapture concept defeats yhe second coming of Christ!
Matt 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

They are the saints who were caught up (raptured) to meet Christ in the air after the resurrection (1 Th 4:17).

The rapture is a new doctrine originated in the “burned over district” in the 1800’s

Not according to 1 Th 4:15-17, where it occurs after the resurrection at the second coming.

 

[TATII]

Israel becoming a nation again is not a marker of a pre-salvation incident that deals only with national Israel. There is now a nation of Israel but it is not the same nation as the Biblical land. What does exist rejects Jesus the Messiah. It is not the place where God says "You are my people and I am your God." There are no priests. There is no temple. There is no line of David and no king. There are no sacrifices. No covering. They are still awaiting their Messiah to come and make them a great nation. They have rejected the blood of the covenant.

Very well stated...the only way that could be rejected is via deception...believing a lie.

So with all that in mind: Who are the people of God?

All who are being led by the Spirit of God through faith in the Lord Yahshua Christ...these are the sons of God!

Tatwo...

 

[TATII]

What I said was that looking at current events to see if they align with scripture is backwards.

Maybe it’s just the wording here Arial…as I have learned over time…unless one had a complete understanding of all prophetic revelation…then of necessity…there would be times when one “looks at the current events” and…if it is “their call” to prophetically interpret the Scripture and the times…when they go into the prophetic Scriptures and ask the Holy Spirit for “wisdom and understanding for interpretation” this would yield the prophetic light needed to interpret both the Scripture and the current event with greater clarity...as a directive or instruction for the Body.

I am not suggesting that we may interpret Scripture through our contemporary and temporal understanding of the current events however.

Current events to not interpret Scripture. Scripture interprets scripture. Scripture is not meant to align with current events.

“Current events to not interpret Scripture”…I can agree with that. “Scripture interprets scripture.”…This is sound advice. “Scripture is not meant to align with current events.” If this is correct as you suggest I see a problem. For those of us still on the earth…we would have no prophetic light with which to interpret God’s plan prior to and as it takes place around us.

A very simple but obvious example of this…and there are countless others in both Testaments…is Jeremiah’s prophecy [605 B.C.] of Israel’s 70 years captivity in Babylon a few years prior to it beginning [597 B.C.] According to Daniel 9…Daniel was aware of this prophecy which then revealed to Daniel when the 70 years was over [538 B.C.] and he could begin preparing for their release and journey back to Israel.

This is Scripture not only aligning with what will become [future] a “current event”…it is set forth years in advance and will bring about its revelation and execution in the day for which it was intended…by the Lord. So…in reality prophetic Scripture in its time of fulfillment…illuminates and directs current events because it was all planned and ordered by God before the foundation of creation...and He shares His will with His sons.

God the Father was well aware of the end of this creation prior to establishing or founding it. The book of Genesis reveals how He put creation forth…the book of Revelation reveals how He will wrap it all up. Revelation is a complete reference to all that has occurred in the end of the age and all that will yet occur.

The apostles and prophets of today are graced to interpret that which is past, present and future unto the end. Effectively they will deconstruct the prophetic as they are called to do under the unction of the Holy Spirit for the Body of Christ on earth.

Then they will teach what is happening [current events] from a Scriptural and prophetic perspective in the contemporary sense for direction and instruction...and...impart prophetically what the Body can expect in the future for preparation…like Daniel.

Our Father desires this for us…it is how He will lead us as “His Son one the earth” through the darkness of today and the days to come…as we overcome the dragon his beast, the harlot and the lawless one.

Tatwo...

 

[Arial]

A very simple but obvious example of this…and there are countless others in both Testaments…is Jeremiah’s prophecy [605 B.C.] of Israel’s 70 years captivity in Babylon a few years prior to it beginning [597 B.C.] According to Daniel 9…Daniel was aware of this prophecy which then revealed to Daniel when the 70 years was over [538 B.C.] and he could begin preparing for their release and journey back to Israel.

I will have to address the rest of this post later. This is not Daniel looking at current events and aligning them with scripture. He was referring to a prophecy of Jeremiah in the scriptures that stated they would go into captivity for 70 years. He knew the seventy years was almost complete.

 

[donadams]

They are the saints who were caught up (raptured) to meet Christ in the air after the resurrection (1 Th 4:17).

Not according to 1 Th 4:15-17, where it occurs after the resurrection at the second coming.

1 thes 4 refers to the second coming
The elect are gatherd “after” the second coming matt 24:31

 

[CrowCross]

However...I see a few issues here with CrowCross's conclusions...for example…much or even all of what is on the list of 15 is the work of the dragon and his beast...which is being carried out by humans on the earth today...but...CrowCross states...that the "mark of the beast" is not yet here?

Yes, the mark of the beast and the surrounding technology has not been set up as of yet.

Just prior to that you stated...

Then after listing 15 various proofs for "The Rapture/Resurrection of the Church is near"...the author states...quote..."Currently we seem to be in that window." I suppose that without stating the "duration?" of the "window"...the author's conclusion is not actually attached to anything tangible time wise...other than "their" perceived status of the 15 proofs listed...which when pulled together for assessment seems completely subjective…really.

Technology move on....For instance if the mark mentioned in Rev. 13 was based upon vacuum tube technology like state of the art technology once was and the rapture didn't happen when the worlds technology relied on vacuum tubes one could say that window closed back in the 1970's as the transistor took over.
Currently we have the technology to read a "mark" and tie it into a centralized system that can be controlled on a world wide basics. All that is needed is a one world government to connect it and a means of enforcing it.
Is this "system" ready to go? Right now? I say no. But almost.
If the current technology doesn't deliver the above....and we move past the current technology and into a realm where a one world government, religion and power can no longer be established we could then say the window has closed.
Can one put a time stamp on that? I say, not really....but look how far we have come since Marconi. I joke with the kids when I see them talking into their wrist watch....and tell them Dick Tracy was doing that back in the 1940's.

 

[TATII]

I will have to address the rest of this post later. This is not Daniel looking at current events and aligning them with scripture. He was referring to a prophecy of Jeremiah in the scriptures that stated they would go into captivity for 70 years. He knew the seventy years was almost complete.

Take your time...don't do the thing that frustrates you here...let's have a decent and productive conversation...by dealing with what I am saying.

"In the first year of Darius the son of Ahasuerus, of the lineage of the Medes, who was made king over the realm of the Chaldeans— (2) in the first year of his reign I, Daniel, understood by the books the number of the years specified by the word of the LORD through Jeremiah the prophet, that He would accomplish seventy years in the desolations of Jerusalem." Daniel 9:1-2 NKJV

Simply put...Daniel knows the initial date of the Babylonian captivity...he was among the first to go. Daniel also knows that Jeremiah prophesied that the captivity would be for 70 years...that is what the "then prophetic Scripture" says...in any case...Daniel knew when the end of the captivity would come...at some point in his captivity....before it actually came.

What did this mean to him [Daniel] except that he knew what God's plan for Israel was ahead of time and in advance...for the release of Israel from the Babylonian enslavement.

In the time frame that the 70 years was complete...the release of Israel became a "current event" as prophesied by Jeremiah...right? In this case...which is one of many because it is the norm...it is Scripture not only aligning with current events...but actually prophesying in advance their occurrence. Scripture will align with current events because all of creation follows God's plan for it.

Tatwo...

 

[Eleanor]

1 thes 4 refers to the second coming
The elect are gatherd “after” the second coming matt 24:31

Yes, in apostolic teaching authoritative to the church (Lk 10:16), the second coming, resurrection, rapture, and judgment all occur in the last day.

Jesus locates the resurrection in the last day (Jn 6:39).
Paul locates the resurrection with the rapture (1 Th 4:16).
Jesus locates the rapture with the second coming (Mt 24:39-41).
Jesus locates the second coming with the judgment of the sheep and goats (Mt 25:31-33).

So it's second coming --> resurrection --> rapture --> (descent with Jesus to earth to assist in) judgment of all mankind (sheep and goats).

The elect gathered from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other (Mt 24:31), are the raptured of 1 Th 4:17 in the last day.

 

[CrowCross]

Take your time...don't do the thing that frustrates you here...let's have a decent and productive conversation...by dealing with what I am saying.

"In the first year of Darius the son of Ahasuerus, of the lineage of the Medes, who was made king over the realm of the Chaldeans— (2) in the first year of his reign I, Daniel, understood by the books the number of the years specified by the word of the LORD through Jeremiah the prophet, that He would accomplish seventy years in the desolations of Jerusalem." Daniel 9:1-2 NKJV

Simply put...Daniel knows the initial date of the Babylonian captivity...he was among the first to go. Daniel also knows that Jeremiah prophesied that the captivity would be for 70 years...that is what the "then prophetic Scripture" says...in any case...Daniel knew when the end of the captivity would come...at some point in his captivity....before it actually came.

What did this mean to him [Daniel] except that he knew what God's plan for Israel was ahead of time and in advance...for the release of Israel from the Babylonian enslavement.

In the time frame that the 70 years was complete...the release of Israel became a "current event" as prophesied by Jeremiah...right? In this case...which is one of many because it is the norm...it is Scripture not only aligning with current events...but actually prophesying in advance their occurrence. Scripture will align with current events because all of creation follows God's plan for it.

Tatwo...

From what I have read,studied and seen presented is there is one more week or 7 years left in Daniels 70 years.
The last week will be fulfilled in what is called the time of Jacobs trouble.
The clock stopped s0 to speak when Jesus was "cut off"...and will start again soon.

 

[Carbon]

For prophecy watchers...it make it extremely probable.

prophecy watchers? Haha,

 

[Carbon]

The rapture concept defeats yhe second coming of Christ!

Matt 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

The rapture is a new doctrine originated in the “burned over district” in the 1800’s

Thks

Right. The only rapture (If you want to call it.) is at Christ's second coming when we go meet the Lord in the air. And that is judgment day