The powerless Arminian Jesus

[Mercy_Shown]

That's not what I asked....why do some not believe?

Does John 6:65 have anything to do with it?

Because hates the light and does not come toward the light, so that his works might not be exposed.

 

[Mercy_Shown]

None by nature can submit to God, nor can please Him Rom 8:7-8

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Indeed and that is why Jesus brought the light to them. To every man.

 

[Mercy_Shown]

Would you show this teaching in scripture?
Or is this a personal view of yours?

But all things become visible when they are exposed by the light [of God's precepts], for it is light that makes everything visible. Eph 5:13

 

[Carbon]

But all things become visible when they are exposed by the light [of God's precepts], for it is light that makes everything visible. Eph 5:13

Ummm, read the context, then try again.

 

[Mercy_Shown]

Ummm, read the context, then try again.

Don’t need to. The principle does not change. The light reveals no matter who it shines on and we know it shines on every man. We know that the basis for the verdict is rejection of the light. PTL for His goodness to all mankind.

 

[Mercy_Shown]

Here is what we can do. Prove it with scripture.

You made the charge without scripture so lead by example.

I’m just letting you know your view isn’t unique.

What makes you think that was nessecary?

 

[CrowCross]

I thought the answer was clear. Because they did not submit to God who is life.

WHY DID THEY NOT SUBMIT? I already know they didn't submit.

Do you not understand the question?

 

[Mercy_Shown]

WHY DID THEY NOT SUBMIT? I already know they didn't submit.

Do you not understand the question?

Because they were proud and sought to establish their own righteousness. This was the same sin Eve commited in the Garden. She was ignorant of sin and sought a better way than God’s way. It was what God said through Isaiah when he said, “But now, all you who light fires and provide yourselves with flaming torches, go, walk in the light of your fires and of the torches you have set ablaze. This is what you shall receive from my hand: You will lie down in torment.”

When we judge our light brighter than God’s we seek to create our own righteousness.

 

[makesends]

makesends said:
"Who then is responsible for the evil that [WHAT] causes?" What are you referring to by "this" in 'the evil that this causes'? Does the fact that he created those who are lost cause evil, or the fact that I believe (that he created those) causes evil, or something else causes evil?

It would help me if you were a little more specific in your terms. What exactly do you mean by "responsible for"? Who are the 'lost', you refer to in "he created those who are lost"? —those forever lost, reprobate? or all the lost including those to become saved? does 'the lost' include the elect before they are born again?

Do you believe that there is anything existing that God did not create?

I would assume not. So then the class of people who God created and yet denied His grace will still be held accountable for violating His laws. Laws that were too difficult for any human to obey. Further more the pain and suffering they commit and the atrocities they instigate are coming from creatures God created knowing full well what they would do without his irresistible Grace.

I'm not yet asking for proof of what you are positing; I'm asking for what you are saying —WHAT was it that causes the evil you refer to in post #22 ?

 

[brightfame52]

That's not what I asked....why do some not believe?

Does John 6:65 have anything to do with it?

Yes it does as well as JJn 10:26

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you

 

[Arial]

It comes down to whosoever believes in Him. Whoever, not only those rebirthed to do so.

It could just as easily be the ones who have been born again are the ones who believe in Him. The whosoever who do believe. Since it doesn't say "whosoever chooses to believe" or "whosoever wants to believe" and John 3 says "Unless one is born again they cannot see the kingdom of heaven."

 

[Arial]

There is no death in God's presence. I know that some people like to parse the verse that states “For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.” They have no problem with the first "all" meaning all, but the second one is always explained as meaning something other than it says. But in Christ is no death and each person has a chance to see the light and thus decide.

If it is just a "chance" then all were not made alive in Christ.

I admit to me that passage is difficult, but since "all in Adam die" is clearly a literal "all" that applies to every individual, and we know that not every individual is make alive by Christ's death (not all are saved)there is a different application or intent between the two uses. Possibly "all who are in Christ are made alive" would express the intent.

 

[CrowCross]

John 1:9 That was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world. Everyman receives light

Ephesians 5:13 But everything exposed by the light becomes visible—and everything that is illuminated becomes a light. Everyman is exposed by the light to the truth.

One must see their sin in order to repent of it and the bible says in Acts 17:30-31 Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained.

It is mans refusal to do so because he loves darkness more than light that damns him. John 3:19 1And this is the verdict, that the light came into the world, but people preferred darkness to light, because their works were evil. 2For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come toward the light, so that his works might not be exposed.

I'm not quite following your concept.

 

[CrowCross]

Because they were proud and sought to establish their own righteousness.

Two men....twins, ...same parents, house, school, upbringing, influences, let's say pretty much everything....one believes and the other doesn't...why does one establish their own prideful righteousness while the other doesn't?

 

[CrowCross]

Yes it does as well as JJn 10:26

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you

Romans 9:15 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” 16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy.

It seems to be 100% God and zero % us.

 

[Mercy_Shown]

Two men....twins, ...same parents, house, school, upbringing, influences, let's say pretty much everything....one believes and the other doesn't...why does one establish their own prideful righteousness while the other doesn't?

One resists the Holy Spirit but the other one submits to God.

 

[Mr GLee]

One resists the Holy Spirit but the other one submits to God.

One thing I have been looking is there seems to be two kinds of mercy. .Mercy mixed with grace and mercy the sufferingsthe pains of hell in these bodies of death is over . There name are erased from the book of life just as if never born .

Yoked with Christ that daily suffering burden is lighter

James 2:12-14King James Version1 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty
For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

Christ is subject to his own laws There would be no mercy of God if some had to suffer forever

Sort of like in western movies when man shoots his horse ending the suffering.

 

[Arial]

One resists the Holy Spirit but the other one submits to God.

But why?

 

[brightfame52]

One resists the Holy Spirit but the other one submits to God.

The one who doesnt resist the Spirit is born of the Spirit. The ones who do, are unregenerate, in the flesh

 

[Mercy_Shown]

The one who doesnt resist the Spirit is born of the Spirit. The ones who do, are unregenerate, in the flesh

This is the tight circular reasoning found in Calvinism. How do you know those who don’t resist the spirit are born of the spirit? Well, the answer is that if they weren’t born of the spirit they would resist it. And how do you know that? Easy, because if they were born of the spirit they wouldn’t resist it and so on and so forth.