The powerless Arminian Jesus

[Mercy_Shown]

Actually it’s not.

What are we supposed to do? Sit like children and argue back and forth, "yes it is,"

"No, it isn't?"

Oh don’t flatter yourself I know many who have the same view as you.

I know many who have the same view as you. So what does that have to do with what we are discussing?

 

[Mercy_Shown]

You see, when a man is born again, he then becomes a God seeker and freely chooses.

It is not a free choice if he has no alternatives.

 

[Mercy_Shown]

Why would one choose to submit to Jesus while others choose to remain in the darkness?
Is it their IQ?
Is it where they were born?
Is it the church they went to?
...is it the happenstance of life?

Why????

It comes down to whosoever believes in Him. Whoever, not only those rebirthed to do so.

John 12:44-46
And Jesus cried out and said, “Whoever believes in me, believes not in me but in him who sent me. And whoever sees me sees him who sent me. I have come into the world as light, so that whoever believes in me may not remain in darkness.

Whoever means whoever. Looking through the entire bible the theme seems to be pride. He resists the proud. Here is a small sample.

Psalm 138:6
for though the LORD is high, he regards the lowly,
but the haughty he knows from afar.


Proverbs 3:34
Toward the scorners he is scornful,
but to the humble he gives favor.


Proverbs 29:23
One’s pride will bring him low,
but he who is lowly in spirit will obtain honor.

 

[Mercy_Shown]

Man doesn't submit to his rescuers to be saved. That is where all he has to do is reach out and grab the life preserver or be allowed to be placed in a litter and towed to shore.
It works more like this....The man is already DEAD. That is no life in him....dead in sins and trespasses....NOT drowning in sins and trespasses.
The man is DEAD lying on the bottom of the lake. Jesus Himself has to jump into the lake, swim to the bottom and drag your DEAD body to shore and breathe new life into you.

There is no death in God's presence. I know that some people like to parse the verse that states “For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.” They have no problem with the first "all" meaning all, but the second one is always explained as meaning something other than it says. But in Christ is no death and each person has a chance to see the light and thus decide.

 

[brightfame52]

I do, do you?

I do, but i honestly dont believe you do.

 

[brightfame52]

It is not a free choice if he has no alternatives.

Says who ? You ? Man as a slave to sin, has no choice not to be, yet he freely and willing sins all the time. Peter said some cant stop their eyes of adultery 2 Pet 2:14

Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:

They are freely doing it, yet they have no choice

 

[Mercy_Shown]

Man doesn't submit to his rescuers to be saved.

Paul gives this as one reason that Isreal failed was for not submitting.
Romans 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

 

[Carbon]

What are we supposed to do? Sit like children and argue back and forth, "yes it is,"

"No, it isn't?"

Here is what we can do. Prove it with scripture.

I know many who have the same view as you. So what does that have to do with what we are discussing?

I’m just letting you know your view isn’t unique.

 

[brightfame52]

Paul gives this as one reason that Isreal failed was for not submitting.
Romans 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

Well none by nature can submit to God Rom 8:7-8

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

 

[Carbon]

Well none by nature can submit to God Rom 8:7-8

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Oh come on brother. There must be some exceptions

 

[Mercy_Shown]

Well none by nature can submit to God Rom 8:7-8

They can when God exposes them to light. "But everything exposed by the light becomes visible—"

But none can without the light, none can know enough to decide. God is just and will give that light to all so that all sin and rebellion will fall on those who reject it. They will receive the wages they earned.

 

[Mercy_Shown]

Says who ? You ? Man as a slave to sin, has no choice not to be, yet he freely and willing sins all the time. Peter said some cant stop their eyes of adultery 2 Pet 2:14

Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:

They are freely doing it, yet they have no choice

They made their choice.

 

[Mercy_Shown]

I do, but i honestly dont believe you do.

You are either a prophet or have a lot of hubris.

 

[Carbon]

They can when God exposes them to light. "But everything exposed by the light becomes visible—"

Would you show this teaching in scripture?
Or is this a personal view of yours?

But none can without the light, none can know enough to decide. God is just and will give that light to all so that all sin and rebellion will fall on those who reject it. They will receive the wages they earned.

 

[brightfame52]

They can when God exposes them to light. "But everything exposed by the light becomes visible—"

But none can without the light, none can know enough to decide. God is just and will give that light to all so that all sin and rebellion will fall on those who reject it. They will receive the wages they earned.

None by nature can submit to God, nor can please Him Rom 8:7-8

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

 

[CrowCross]

It comes down to whosoever believes in Him. Whoever, not only those rebirthed to do so.

That's not what I asked....why do some not believe?

Does John 6:65 have anything to do with it?

 

[CrowCross]

and each person has a chance to see the light and thus decide.

Do you have a verse that states that? I mean, it might sound good...loving...but do you have a verse?

 

[CrowCross]

Paul gives this as one reason that Isreal failed was for not submitting.
Romans 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

I know what they have done or haven't done....when will you answer why?

 

[Mercy_Shown]

I know what they have done or haven't done....when will you answer why?

I thought the answer was clear. Because they did not submit to God who is life.

 

[Mercy_Shown]

Do you have a verse that states that? I mean, it might sound good...loving...but do you have a verse?

John 1:9 That was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world. Everyman receives light

Ephesians 5:13 But everything exposed by the light becomes visible—and everything that is illuminated becomes a light. Everyman is exposed by the light to the truth.

One must see their sin in order to repent of it and the bible says in Acts 17:30-31 Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained.

It is mans refusal to do so because he loves darkness more than light that damns him. John 3:19 1And this is the verdict, that the light came into the world, but people preferred darkness to light, because their works were evil. 2For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come toward the light, so that his works might not be exposed.