The mystery of works in the gospel of faith: The works we are justified by vs. the works we are not justified by

[CrowCross]

Neither I with you.


No, you're asking questions, that show you don't read what I write in the first place.

Go back to the first post, read it to understand it. Then if you want specific clarification, I'll be glad to help.

Nevermind. I have better things to do.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Nowhere does the Bible ever say we are saved through faith, and not by works, nor of works.

No sense in reading any farther, since everything that follows is meaningless garbage.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Especially the religious that want to believe their own manner of faith is good enough for God.

But since FAITH is from God, then it is "good enough" Eph 2:8,9.

 

[Ghada]

Handle 1 Cor 3:15.

Since the Bible does say we are justified by works, then the Bible can never say we are not justified by works.

The Bible only says what works we are not jusitified by: works of our own righteousness, and by works of the law without faith.

The Bible never says we are not justified by any works at all.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Since the Bible does say we are justified by works, then the Bible can never say we are not justified by works.

The Bible only says what works we are not jusitified by: works of our own righteousness, and by works of the law without faith.

The Bible never says we are not justified by any works at all.

It does if you're able to read English with understanding.

Works ARE THE RESULT of FAITH, but contribute NOTHING to your spiritual status (Saved or lost). At the judgement seat of Christ (which ONLY Christians will experience), What you did with what you were given will be a factor in determining what your "position" in the heavenly society will be.

Works, however have nothing to do with establishing a Born again status.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Since the Bible does say we are justified by works, then the Bible can never say we are not justified by works.

The Bible only says what works we are not jusitified by: works of our own righteousness, and by works of the law without faith.

The Bible never says we are not justified by any works at all.

Personally, I don't base my beliefs on what the Bible DOESN'T say. You can if you please.

 

[makesends]

Since the Bible does say we are justified by works, then the Bible can never say we are not justified by works.

The Bible only says what works we are not jusitified by: works of our own righteousness, and by works of the law without faith.

The Bible never says we are not justified by any works at all.

Did you know that even in English, the word, "justified" can have several uses/meanings?

 

[Ghada]

But since FAITH is from God, then it is "good enough" Eph 2:8,9.

Eph
{2:8} For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:

Galatians
{2:16} Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

The faith of Jesus is God's gift of faith. His faith is only given to sin not and always do His will. The faith of sinners to continue sinning is not Jesus' faith, but is their own gift of themselves.

Sinful man's own faith alone to only sin less than before, is not 'good enough' for the Father.

1 Peter
{1:14} As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance: {1:15} But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; {1:16} Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

{1:17} And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man’s work, pass the time of your sojourning [here] in fear:

 

[Ghada]

It does if you're able to read English with understanding.

Works ARE THE RESULT of FAITH, but contribute NOTHING to your spiritual status (Saved or lost).

I've learned this doctrine in english over time from people that teach it in english.

It's called inner religion that has nothing to do with how we live.

The world of responsible children and adults call it self-righteous hypocrisy.

Some call it New Age religion, where we are divine on the inside, no matter how we live on the outside.

The feel good modern expression is: "I know I still do bad things, but my heart is still good."

Some people just never grow out of such childish nonsense. They continue in their own delusional world to the grave.

Some even make a whole justifying doctrine for their unrepented sinning, as though from the Bible. They believe their own words of doctrine alone, will prevent the righteous Lord from judging their own sinful living.

Psalms
{12:3} The LORD shall cut off all flattering lips, [and] the tongue that speaketh proud things: {12:4} Who have said, With our tongue will we prevail; our lips [are] our own: who [is] lord over us?

As though the Father will have some great personal respect for their own flattering faith and doctrine.

1 Peter
{1:17} And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man’s work, pass the time of your sojourning [here] in fear:

Galatians
{6:7} Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. {6:8} For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

At the judgement seat of Christ (which ONLY Christians will experience), What you did with what you were given will be a factor in determining what your "position" in the heavenly society will be.

1 Cor
{3:10} According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon... {3:13} Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is. {3:14} If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. {3:15} If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Errors of ministry burned away in the test of live fire, are not unrighteous works of adultery, robbery, lying witnesses, drunkeness, lusting coveteousness, etc...

{3:16} Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? {3:17} If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which [temple] ye are.

Rev
{21:27} And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither [whatsoever] worketh abomination, or [maketh] a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb’s book of life.

Some ministry is so defiling to the believers, that it's not just simple error by ignorance, but is purposed wilful doctrine, that leads to destruction of the foolish believers by continued unrighteous works of the flesh.

2 Tim
{2:15} Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. {2:16} But shun profane [and] vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

In such cases, both the unrighteous ministers and their followers all end in condemnation together.

Matthew
{15:14} Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.

Works, however have nothing to do with establishing a Born again status.

The unrighteous can play their conscience-searing no-judgment doctrinal card in this life. But after the grave, the righteous Father will just go right ahead and judge each and every one of us by our works, with no respect for what some may think and believe about it.

That includes whatever doctrine of sinful man has to say about it. Such as their continued sinning in life has nothing to do with their own born again 'status'.

Luke
{13:2} And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things? {13:3} I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Jesus assures all men, that just sinning less than others is not 'good enough' for the Father. Being sinners more or less than others, is not the justified lives of God's saints resurrected in the likeness of Jesus Christ.

 

[Ghada]

Did you know that even in English, the word, "justified" can have several uses/meanings?

I'm only interested in how God defines His justification by the Bible. Not by Webster.

{2:24} Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

His justification is defined by works, not by faith only.

Justification by faith alone, is only the self-justification defined by sinful theologians.

The only works that justify a man with God, are done through the Spirit by the faith of Jesus. All other works of man's own righteousness, including those by law alone, are excluded from God's justification in Christ Jesus.

And unrighteous works of the flesh are only condemned by God. Just as man's faith alone is dead to God.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Nowhere does the Bible ever say we are saved through faith, and not by works, nor of works.

Eph 2:8,9

 

[Ghada]

Eph 2:8,9

Not of works that any man can boast of. Or, of works of our own righteousness. Or, of our own works.

Taking away from Scripture changes Scripture.

Nowhere does Scripture we are saved not by works. Which would contradict being justified by works.

People can believe they are saved all by their faith alone, but the Father will still judge us all by our works, to justify or condemn.

And the Lord Jesus will judge His believers by their works at His judgment seat, for good or bad.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Not of works that any man can boast of. Or, of works of our own righteousness. Or, of our own works.

So you're adding your OWN PRIVATE INTERPRETATION to the Screipture to make it conform to YOUR THEOLOGY.

Typical heretical methodology.

Your interpretation is REJECTED. There is no "Mystery".

 

[Eleanor]

Not of works that any man can boast of. Or, of works of our own righteousness. Or, of our own works.

Taking away from Scripture changes Scripture.

Nowhere does Scripture (say) we are saved not by works.

Are you serious?

Eph 2:8-9 - "It is by grace through faith you have been saved. . .not by works.

Which would contradict being justified by works.

Ro 3:28 - a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law (i.e., works)
Ro 3:21 - a righteousness from God apart from the law (i.e., works) has been made known
Gal 2:16 - a man is not justified by observing the law (i.e., works), but by faith in Jesus Christ
Gal 3:11 - clearly no one is justified before God by the law (i.e., works)

People can believe they are saved all by their faith alone, but the Father will still judge us all by our works, to justify or condemn.

And the Lord Jesus will judge His believers by their works at His judgment seat, for good or bad.

Because good works demonstrate true faith, and no works demonstrate false faith.

Works are the test of faith. . .no good works = no true faith.

 

[Ghada]

So you're adding your OWN PRIVATE INTERPRETATION to the Screipture to make it conform to YOUR THEOLOGY.

Some people have changed Scripture for themselves so long, that the Scripture unchanged becomes heresy to them.

 

[Ghada]

Are you serious?

Yes.

Eph 2:8-9 - "It is by grace through faith you have been saved. . .not by works.

This is not Eph 2:8-9, but a cut out version of it.

Eph{2:8} For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Justification with God is not of works that any man can boast of.

Some are so used to trusting in their own cut outs of Scripture, that they forget they are only cut outs and not Scripture.

This is another reason why God has ensured all His words are written in one Book on earth. So that the true record still remains to be read accurately, despite all the changes made to them by others.

Ro 3:28 - a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law (i.e., works)

Works of law.

Ro 3:21 - a righteousness from God apart from the law (i.e., works) has been made known

Works of our own righteousness.

Nowhere is there any Scripture saying any man is justified not by works. As though not by any works at all.

That cut our version rejects Scripture that does say a man is justified by works. Not by works of law, nor of our own righteousness, nor we can boast of, but rather only by good works of God done through the faith of Jesus Christ.

Of which Abraham and Rahab are examples recorded for all that likewise have faith toward God.

Because good works demonstrate true faith, and no works demonstrate false faith.

Good works are by God's faith. No works are by dead faith. Bad works are by bad faith.

The works prove the faith we have, whether good, bad, or dead. (Or ugly)

Works are the test of faith. . .no good works = no true faith.

Correct.

James{2:24} Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Why does someone agree with Scripture in one place, but also cuts other scripture short in order to teach against it?

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Some people have changed Scripture for themselves so long, that the Scripture unchanged becomes heresy to them.

What's that got to do with the foolishness you posted???

 

[Eleanor]

Yes.

This is not Eph 2:8-9, but a cut out version of it.

Eph{2:8} For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Justification with God is not of works that any man can boast of.

Salvation (Gr: soteria) is not justification (Gr: dikaiosis).

Eph 2:8-9 is in regard to salvation; i.e., deliverance at the Second Coming from the wrath of God (Ro 5:9) to be executed upon the ungodly at the close of this age; deliverance from eternal doom.

Justification (Ro 4:25, 5:18) is by faith (Ro 3:28), and is a declaration by God of "not guilty," a sentence of acquittal of guilt, a pronouncing of righteous; i.e., in right standing with God's justice, a forensic righteousness (not an actual righteousness as in sanctification)

Some are so used to trusting in their own cut outs of Scripture, that they forget they are only cut outs and not Scripture.
This is another reason why God has ensured all His words are written in one Book on earth. So that the true record still remains to be read accurately, despite all the changes made to them by others.
Works of law.
Works of our own righteousness.

Nowhere is there any Scripture saying any man is justified not by works. As though not by any works at all.

Are you serious?

Ro 3:28 - "a man is justified by faith without works of the law."

See Ac 13:39, Gal 2:16, 3:11.

Works always accompany true faith, but it is not the works of faith that either save (Eph 2:8-9) or justify (Ro 3:28).
It is only the faith of those works, not the works themselves, that saves and justifies.

 

[Ghada]

What's that got to do with the foolishness you posted???

You've been telling yourself something for so long, that when the true is quoted from Scripture, you call it heresy. Which it is, to you.

Any belief that we will not be judged by our works to be justified or condemned by God, ends in the grave.

The problem with not being justified by our works, is not being justified by our works. If we know our works are not justified with the Lord, then certainly our works are not justified by the righteous Judge Himself.

 

[Ghada]

Works always accompany true faith, but it is not the works of faith that either save (Eph 2:8-9) or justify (Ro 3:28).

So, you agree again we are justified by our works, which judge our faith being of God, or of ourselves alone.

The faith of God given to us by Jesus Christ is to do His righteousness. The faith of sinners themselves is to do more sinning.

It is only the faith of those works, not the works themselves, that saves and justifies.

Thanks. I always like to see new twists of imagination and illusion. Just when I think I've seen them all, another one appears less real than ever.

The ark on the water proves it worked by faith toward the LORD. And yet the faith alone saves Noah, not the ark. Right.
The light in the darkness proves the candle works, and yet the candle alone saves from the darkness, not the light. Right.

The extremes of unreal arguments to justify oneself by faith alone, not by works, is seemingly endless and without bottom.

The problem with not being justified by our works, is not being justified by our works. If we know our works are not justified with the Lord, then certainly our works are not justified by the righteous Judge Himself.