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The mark of the beast

What is the mark of the beast?

  • The literal number 666

  • A microchip

  • A world system

  • A spirit of the antichrist

  • An unbeliever who persists in wickedness

  • Symbolize's belonging to Satan

  • I have no idea.

  • Someone's name

  • The God-opposing, Christ rejecting, church persecuting spirit of antichrist, where and when it shows


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And everyone who disagrees with what you present would say exactly the same thing about you. And they would be correct in doing so. No conversation can be had when one approaches the subject as you and most do. As authoritative, indisputable fact, That is why I suggested a different approach. I have been learning to do that myself and it makes for a much more constructive exchange.
I have a line that needs to be crossed. Show me where what is mentioned in Rev happened. Until that is done I will NEVER believe it is historic and centered arounf AD 70.
Some things are not negotiable but the differences in the end times interpretations are. There are pros and cons in all the views and a lot of it has to do with how we are interpreting the rest of Scripture. It is not one of those things that we all have to understand in the same way, as long as we get the truth of the important underlying message of Revelation. Personally I believe that a great deal of the Dispensational view of Revelation wrecks havoc on the continuity of what the Bible is----the story of redemption. And its interpretation of Revelation misses the purpose of the book having been given to us, and cannot give Scriptural support without also, in the process, producing contradictions in the Bible.

OK...So?
I feel the same about the Preterist and partial Preterist views. But, as I said, that is the way I look at it. I tend to engage very little in this discussion as it always degenerates and becomes corrupt. If you can't say what you believe without invoking the outside world to do with it, it suggests to me that something is very wrong with the interpretation. Scripture is its own interpreter. Bible hermeneutics 101.

As to the chip question----what does that have to do with the scriptures? If John is recording something that was given to him in a vision and the mark is a representation of something and not an actual mark, the fact that we can all be chipped or marked is meaningless. Why do you not do the same thing with the seal with which we are sealed in Christ, as belonging to him, by the Holy Spirit way back in Eph, that you do with the mark of belonging to the false Trinity in Revelation?
Revelation is the prophetic for some generation. When one looks at where we are and what we can do...it looks to be our generation.
I certainly hope it is.
You are not the authority of prophetic (speaking God's words) symbolic utterances. Try not to post as though you are. That is all I am asking of anyone.
I have never posted as an authority. Do you?

I'm simply reading the bible and reading the news....and pointing out some of the extremely close simularaties.
 
I have a line that needs to be crossed. Show me where what is mentioned in Rev happened. Until that is done I will NEVER believe it is historic and centered arounf AD 70.
The point is, you don't have to decide. Hold your view —fine— but just because you don't see theirs doesn't mean you are right about yours.

But FWIW you are far from the worst here with this demeaner. (Lol, I find myself having to remind myself that though it is logical that nothing but whatever happens could have happened, it doesn't mean that that narrative, (that nothing can happen except whatever does happen), is quite accurate, even though to me it fits Scripture perfectly, (even if it does wander a ways from the conventional). God will make a fool of me too, and from the POV of some, me saying such a thing borders on madness. Well, they may be right; it is madmen whose logic can't be unraveled.)
 
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You folks are not considering all scriptures, thereby, you cannot understand what it means to buy and sell. Buy and selling has reference to moving freely within, and among, the false churches of the latter day, and only those men and women who have the mark of the beast, will be able to do so.
Um...yeah...no. It means to buy products and sell products, which is connected to survival and life. In other words, you don't have the mark, you will not survive/live. It means one is part of the beasts system. There are no false churches when the beast is around because his first step as Antichrist is to abolish all worship but himself.
"15 And it was given to him to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast would even [l]speak and cause as many as do not worship the image of the beast to be killed."
The fourth beast of Daniel is speaking boasts, which is interpreted as boasts against God which is blasphemy. That blasphemy is when this beast declares himself to be God, and abolishes all other religions but the worship of himself.
The mark of the beast is the depraved human nature unconverted, men whom God has left to themselves, the two third, or, the majority of professing believers. These men and women alone can operate within the harlot churches of the last days. Actually, many of the great among them, become filthy rich, and live like kings. It is NOW going on right before our eyes! These men and women have no such silly thing as a micro chip, etc., for them to do so~all they need is a lying spirit working through them that allows them to buy and sell, or live among them. The Benny Hinn's of the harlot church, along with many others, do quite well.
Consider this. We have a trinity of Father, Son and Holy Spirit. This is kind of a complete opposition to the trinity of Father, Son, and Spirit, in which the beast is human and sits in the position of "father". The image of the beast, which is conveniently one of the definitions of son, sits in the position of "son", and as Jesus testified of the Father, the image testifies of the beast. The Holy Spirit comes forth from Father and Son, so in imperfection: "16 And he causes all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free men and the slaves, [m]to be given a mark on their right hand or on their forehead, 17 and he provides that no one will be able to buy or to sell, except the one who has the mark, either the name of the beast or the number of his name." This mark "seals" these worshipers of the beast, and binds them to the proclamation of doom for those who both worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark. Their fate is "special". The fate of those who only worship the beast and his image (if that were possible), and those who ONLY receive the mark, is the same fate as the unsaved. They aren't covered by the proclamation. However, considering what worship the beast and his image means in greek context, the only reason they wouldn't have the mark is if they died before they could get it.
No problem of all men being able to buy goods/foods/drinks, for such things will be in abundant just before the coming of Christ.

Matthew 24:38​

“For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,”
This isn't speaking about just before the coming of Christ through Revelation, but is speaking of the coming final judgment. This is why Jesus had no sign to give the disciples. All Jesus could tell them is that life will be continuing on as usual, and then one day, people will be taken to final judgment.

"36 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone. 37 For [y]the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah. 38 For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and they did not [z]understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40 Then there will be two men in the field; one [aa]will be taken and one [ab]will be left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the [ac]mill; one [ad]will be taken and one [ae]will be left."

Verse 40-41 is not the rapture, but the final judgment before eternity. Only the Father knows when the complete end of everything will come. (The last question the disciples asked was, using greek terminology, not asking about the time right before the millennial Kingdom, they were still thinking Jewish eschatology, but what comes after. The consummation of everything. Not even the Son knows when the creation will come to an end, only the Father. As to how that can be is a mystery we will have to wait to find out.
Luke 17:28
“Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;”
The reason this is is because the beast isn't around anymore. Again, the final judgment that comes after everything. It is part of the consummation of God's creative purpose. (purpose in creation). After this, there is nothing but eternity, new heavens and new earth.
Business as usual, but truly, better than ever!
Jesus was only saying it will be business as usual. He isn't talking qualitatively. Life will continue after the tribulation is over as usual, and then judgment will come at the end. No one but the Father knows when 1. The Kingdom will be restored to Israel, 2. When the final judgment will be.

Yes, there are plenty of blanks still left, but that is what prophecy, and watching and waiting fill in as time goes on. Consider that the end before the Kingdom is all out war and bloodshed. Not exactly business as usual.
 
You folks are not considering all scriptures, thereby, you cannot understand what it means to buy and sell.
As you say, consider the all the scriptures.
"12 And Jesus entered the temple and drove out all those who were buying and selling in the temple, and overturned the tables of the money changers and the seats of those who were selling doves."
The Bible does speak of what buying and selling is. So, consider all scriptures.
Buy and selling has reference to moving freely within, and among, the false churches of the latter day, and only those men and women who have the mark of the beast, will be able to do so. The mark of the beast is the depraved human nature unconverted, men whom God has left to themselves, the two third, or, the majority of professing believers. These men and women alone can operate within the harlot churches of the last days. Actually, many of the great among them, become filthy rich, and live like kings. It is NOW going on right before our eyes! These men and women have no such silly thing as a micro chip, etc., for them to do so~all they need is a lying spirit working through them that allows them to buy and sell, or live among them. The Benny Hinn's of the harlot church, along with many others, do quite well.
The microchip is a possible future of banking and the economy. Many are pushing this way, and digital money is one of the first steps. Some companies have already employed such microchips for their employees. Not sure how far it has gotten though. However, the mark is just that, a mark on the forehead or the right hand. The Bible is VERY descriptive. That mark speaks of alignment or allegiance. Possibly even ownership.

As for how things will be, remember there is this guy on a horse known as famine. The price of food will skyrocket, kind of like it already has. Not because there is necessarily a shortage of food. For instance, Russia's war with Ukraine has put, or will put, a major crimp on the world supply as grain, as they supplied a HUGE amount of grain for the whole world. I forget how much.

After the tribulation, the world will head back towards a normal, such as before Noah's time. The final end will come and no one will know when.
 
The point is, you don't have to decide. Hold your view —fine— but just because you don't see theirs doesn't mean you are right about yours.
I guess you never know....but as I have said, the preterist have said Rev has already happened. If so, why don't they shut us up and show us where Rev 8 and 9 happened.

I've already shown how our current technology can pretty much do what the mark is said to do.
But FWIW you are far from the worst here with this demeaner. (Lol, I find myself having to remind myself that though it is logical that nothing but whatever happens could have happened, it doesn't mean that that narrative, (that nothing can happen except whatever does happen), is quite accurate, even though to me it fits Scripture perfectly, (even if it does wander a ways from the conventional). God will make a fool of me too, and from the POV of some, me saying such a thing borders on madness. Well, they may be right; it is madmen whose logic can't be unraveled.)
 
I guess you never know....but as I have said, the preterist have said Rev has already happened. If so, why don't they shut us up and show us where Rev 8 and 9 happened.

I've already shown how our current technology can pretty much do what the mark is said to do.
I understand that. But none of us have it quite right.
 
I'm simply reading the bible and reading the news....and pointing out some of the extremely close similarities.
Studying the scriptures is a good thing, for they will interpret themselves for us. Reading and listening to the news could very well be an hinderance, not saying that we should not do so, but it should not overly occupy our precious time doing so. Remember, most news is fake, and that is from the people of the world speaking, not me! News is no longer news, that our grandparents received across the radio back almost one hundred years ago. News is big time money, and where there is money involved, there is corruption.

Use your bible and look at the false churches all around us, and learn bible prophecy! Would you like to consider chapters in Revelation? How about eleven? You will see the mark of the beast at work, and compare it to our day. This is bible news the world knows nothing about!
 
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IMO....the mark will be a technical method in which something is placed in and can be seen on a persons right hand or forehead.
This mark will contain information about you that can be read from an external device. This "mark" will provide financial information and allow for the transference of payment for goods and services. Unless you are tied into the system of the mark you will not be able to buy or sell legally.
No signs were given. Its an evil faithless generation that does seek one before they will believe . The Pagan foundation "out of sight out of mind" "No show no go"

A mark as a outward sign, you could use "indicate," "signal," "denote, Mark as a principle" mark my word what I say comes to pass.

15 And the Lord said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the Lord set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.

1 Samuel 1:12 And it came to pass, as she continued praying before the Lord, that Eli marked her mouth.

Job 33:31 Mark well, O Job, hearken unto me: hold thy peace, and I will speak.
 
I have a line that needs to be crossed. Show me where what is mentioned in Rev happened. Until that is done I will NEVER believe it is historic and centered arounf AD 70.
Saying you have a line that needs to be crossed is presuming authority. Work through your claims with scripture (and that does not mean proof texting and is not restricted to a series of quoting scriptures, but on exposition of scriptures, using the whole.) Learn about the other views beyond internet blips.

A book that has been mentioned a number of times on the forum by different persons, that does this is A Case for Amillennialism by Kim Riddlebarger. It does not only cover Amillennialism (and there is more than one amil view) but scripturally compares the different views. My reason for mentioning this particular work is that it is an example of how to build and support one's arguments. How to work through the scriptures, rather than just take a stand without knowledge of anything but one's own beliefs. One of my own personal gripes is the way in which many refuse to look at anything except what they already believe. With no willingness to investigate or hear. If the title says "Amil" and one is pre or post mil, then heck no they aren't going to read it. That sort of thing.

Look. Like I said, not a rule. It is not likely that anyone will change their mind or position as a result of fighting and arguing and refusing to listen. Just keep it civil.
 
Studying the scriptures is a good thing, for they will interpret themselves for us. Reading and listening to the news could very well be an hinderance, not saying that we should not do so, but it should not overly occupy our precious time doing so. Remember, most news is fake, and that is from the people of the world speaking, not me! News is no longer news, that our grandparents received across the radio back almost one hundred years ago. News is big time money, and where there is money involved, there is corruption.

Use your bible and look at the false churches all around us, and learn bible prophecy! Would you like to consider chapters in Revelation? How about eleven? You will see the mark of the beast at work, and compare it to our day. This is bible news the world knows nothing about!
"Studying the scriptures is a good thing, for they will interpret themselves for us. "

That is true. This is also true.

View attachment 992
 
Saying you have a line that needs to be crossed is presuming authority.
The line I say needs to be crossed for me to accept Preterism is to show historically where Rev 8 and 9 happened.

That is the claims of the Preterist. Why can't any Preterist here do that? Did God through John write it...then have it happen....and history not record it for some reason?
 
With all due respect here's an article from MIT...that shows it's real.
That is only concerning keeping track of vaccine records. It is not missing any ingredients, so why did you choose to show the meme from iFunny.com that says it is missing an ingredient and that ingredient is an enzyme called Luciferase? Was it to move the conversation towards verifying your view. They have under the skin chip capability for over twenty years. They put them in pets so lost pets can be returned to their owners. Entirely voluntary. But nothing new.

And it still has absolutely nothing to do with the visions in Revelation unless a person decides to say the visions given in symbolic form are actually given in literal form.
 
Where do you get this (1-5) —Scripture? I mean, it sounds great, but how do you trust it?
The mark of the beast:

1) It is in the forehead (symbolising thought) or the hand (symbolising deeds)

Firstly, Revelation is a book full of symbolism, so, to take most of it literally would be to misunderstand it completely (as many do). Most of these symbols were previously used in the OT (e.g. in Daniel and a few other books), so the concepts are known from there.

In Ez. chapters 8 and 9 we see an example of "forehead" being used to signify people's thoughts. Daniel is given a vision of God's people committing abominable evil; but, those who sighed and cried at the abominations (i.e. hated them and were deeply moved against them) were to be given a mark in their foreheads (in the vision, not literally) and the judgment would not come upon them.

Ez. 9:4-6 (KJV)
4 And the LORD said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof.
5 And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity:
6 Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house.

The hand is often used to symbolise deeds (e.g. whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might, as to God and not to men). The right hand, in particular, symbolises one's physical strength.

2) A beast, in prophetic language, is a kingdom, or its ruler, as representing that kingdom

This is well known from; for example, Daniel, where beasts are used to symbolise kingdoms (or the rulers, as representing those kingdoms).

Daniel 7: 2-7
2 Daniel spake and said, I saw in my vision by night, and, behold, the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea.
3 And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.
4 The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it.
5 And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh.
6 After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it.
7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.

These are well known to refer to four kingdoms: Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece and Rome.

3) 666 means "man man man" (six is the number of man); in other words, it symbolises focus on man, as opposed to God

Six represents man (created on the sixth day). Repeating something, in Scripture, emphasises it (often used) and a triple repetition give maximum emphasis.

4) The beast kingdom is the anti-Church (Roman Catholicism) and its ruler is the anti-Christ (the office of Pope). This kingdom of darkness claims supremacy over every kingdom and person on Earth; in fact, the Pope claims all authority in heaven, on earth and under the earth (i.e. man, rather than God, is in charge, in this evil system)

The office of Pope fits all the biblical criteria for the man of sin/son of perdition/anti-Christ (e.g. he sits in the temple of God (the professing church) proclaiming that he is as God; he has changed times and seasons; claims authority over everyone and everything in heaven on earth and under the earth; is full of names of blasphemy (Holy Father, Rector Orbis, Pontifex Maximus, Vicar of Christ), etc.); and Roman Catholicism fits the criteria for the Whore of Babylon (leaders wearing purple and scarlet; drunk with the blood of the saints; full of heresy; extremely rich; pictured as a woman holding out a cup to the nations (official RC image), etc.).

5) The mark (which others can discern, if they are able) consists of ways of thinking and behaving that conform to this anti-Christ system (Roman Catholicism)

We've seen that, in biblical symbolism, the forehead represents thought and the right hand represents strength and deeds, so a mark (something that can be seen) represents what can be observed of the thoughts (probably via what they say) and deeds.
 
1) It is in the forehead (symbolising thought) or the hand (symbolising deeds)
Right off the bat, you go to interpreting symbolism according to whatever YOU think. It might sound nice or clever or even make a certain amount of sense. But you can't go acting like this is THE interpretation. You don't KNOW.

If all you want to do is present a point of view, do so. And call it a point of view, not THE INTERPRETATION.

If scripture tells you that the interpretation of symbolic word 'forehead', always means 'thought', show it.
 
Right off the bat, you go to interpreting symbolism according to whatever YOU think. It might sound nice or clever or even make a certain amount of sense. But you can't go acting like this is THE interpretation. You don't KNOW.

If all you want to do is present a point of view, do so. And call it a point of view, not THE INTERPRETATION.

If scripture tells you that the interpretation of symbolic word 'forehead', always means 'thought', show it.
I've given you biblical evidence. If you want to present counter-evidence, then go ahead; although I'm unsure where your counter-evidence might come from.

Jer. 3:3 (WEB) Therefore the showers have been withheld, and there has been no latter rain; yet you have a prostitute’s forehead, you refused to be ashamed.

A figurative use of "forehead", to represent a prostitute's attitude (no shame).

Ez. 3:8,9
8 Behold, I have made your face hard against their faces, and your forehead hard against their foreheads.
9 As an adamant harder than flint have I made your forehead: don’t be afraid of them, neither be dismayed at their looks, though they are a rebellious house.

Again, "forehead" is used figuratively here, representing rebellious attitudes, and courageous attitudes (flint and adamant) respectively.

Ez. 9:4 Yahweh said to him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark on the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry over all the abominations that are done in its midst.

Yet again, this is about thoughts/attitudes (in this case, about the abominations being done by the wicked).
 
I've given you biblical evidence. If you want to present counter-evidence, then go ahead; although I'm unsure where your counter-evidence might come from.

Jer. 3:3 (WEB) Therefore the showers have been withheld, and there has been no latter rain; yet you have a prostitute’s forehead, you refused to be ashamed.

A figurative use of "forehead", to represent a prostitute's attitude (no shame).

Ez. 3:8,9
8 Behold, I have made your face hard against their faces, and your forehead hard against their foreheads.
9 As an adamant harder than flint have I made your forehead: don’t be afraid of them, neither be dismayed at their looks, though they are a rebellious house.

Again, "forehead" is used figuratively here, representing rebellious attitudes, and courageous attitudes (flint and adamant) respectively.

Ez. 9:4 Yahweh said to him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark on the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry over all the abominations that are done in its midst.

Yet again, this is about thoughts/attitudes (in this case, about the abominations being done by the wicked).
That's nice, but it doesn't warrant more than speculation as to the specifics of the language used in the prophecy.
 
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