The mark of the beast

[CrowCross]

And everyone who disagrees with what you present would say exactly the same thing about you. And they would be correct in doing so. No conversation can be had when one approaches the subject as you and most do. As authoritative, indisputable fact, That is why I suggested a different approach. I have been learning to do that myself and it makes for a much more constructive exchange.

I have a line that needs to be crossed. Show me where what is mentioned in Rev happened. Until that is done I will NEVER believe it is historic and centered arounf AD 70.

Some things are not negotiable but the differences in the end times interpretations are. There are pros and cons in all the views and a lot of it has to do with how we are interpreting the rest of Scripture. It is not one of those things that we all have to understand in the same way, as long as we get the truth of the important underlying message of Revelation. Personally I believe that a great deal of the Dispensational view of Revelation wrecks havoc on the continuity of what the Bible is----the story of redemption. And its interpretation of Revelation misses the purpose of the book having been given to us, and cannot give Scriptural support without also, in the process, producing contradictions in the Bible.

OK...So?

I feel the same about the Preterist and partial Preterist views. But, as I said, that is the way I look at it. I tend to engage very little in this discussion as it always degenerates and becomes corrupt. If you can't say what you believe without invoking the outside world to do with it, it suggests to me that something is very wrong with the interpretation. Scripture is its own interpreter. Bible hermeneutics 101.

As to the chip question----what does that have to do with the scriptures? If John is recording something that was given to him in a vision and the mark is a representation of something and not an actual mark, the fact that we can all be chipped or marked is meaningless. Why do you not do the same thing with the seal with which we are sealed in Christ, as belonging to him, by the Holy Spirit way back in Eph, that you do with the mark of belonging to the false Trinity in Revelation?

Revelation is the prophetic for some generation. When one looks at where we are and what we can do...it looks to be our generation.
I certainly hope it is.

You are not the authority of prophetic (speaking God's words) symbolic utterances. Try not to post as though you are. That is all I am asking of anyone.

I have never posted as an authority. Do you?

I'm simply reading the bible and reading the news....and pointing out some of the extremely close simularaties.

 

[makesends]

I have a line that needs to be crossed. Show me where what is mentioned in Rev happened. Until that is done I will NEVER believe it is historic and centered arounf AD 70.

The point is, you don't have to decide. Hold your view —fine— but just because you don't see theirs doesn't mean you are right about yours.

But FWIW you are far from the worst here with this demeaner. (Lol, I find myself having to remind myself that though it is logical that nothing but whatever happens could have happened, it doesn't mean that that narrative, (that nothing can happen except whatever does happen), is quite accurate, even though to me it fits Scripture perfectly, (even if it does wander a ways from the conventional). God will make a fool of me too, and from the POV of some, me saying such a thing borders on madness. Well, they may be right; it is madmen whose logic can't be unraveled.)

 

[fastfredy0]

What also is needed is a one world money system

I hope it's not BITCOIN as I have some.

 

[TMSO]

You folks are not considering all scriptures, thereby, you cannot understand what it means to buy and sell. Buy and selling has reference to moving freely within, and among, the false churches of the latter day, and only those men and women who have the mark of the beast, will be able to do so.

Um...yeah...no. It means to buy products and sell products, which is connected to survival and life. In other words, you don't have the mark, you will not survive/live. It means one is part of the beasts system. There are no false churches when the beast is around because his first step as Antichrist is to abolish all worship but himself.
"15 And it was given to him to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast would even [l]speak and cause as many as do not worship the image of the beast to be killed."
The fourth beast of Daniel is speaking boasts, which is interpreted as boasts against God which is blasphemy. That blasphemy is when this beast declares himself to be God, and abolishes all other religions but the worship of himself.

The mark of the beast is the depraved human nature unconverted, men whom God has left to themselves, the two third, or, the majority of professing believers. These men and women alone can operate within the harlot churches of the last days. Actually, many of the great among them, become filthy rich, and live like kings. It is NOW going on right before our eyes! These men and women have no such silly thing as a micro chip, etc., for them to do so~all they need is a lying spirit working through them that allows them to buy and sell, or live among them. The Benny Hinn's of the harlot church, along with many others, do quite well.

Consider this. We have a trinity of Father, Son and Holy Spirit. This is kind of a complete opposition to the trinity of Father, Son, and Spirit, in which the beast is human and sits in the position of "father". The image of the beast, which is conveniently one of the definitions of son, sits in the position of "son", and as Jesus testified of the Father, the image testifies of the beast. The Holy Spirit comes forth from Father and Son, so in imperfection: "16 And he causes all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free men and the slaves, [m]to be given a mark on their right hand or on their forehead, 17 and he provides that no one will be able to buy or to sell, except the one who has the mark, either the name of the beast or the number of his name." This mark "seals" these worshipers of the beast, and binds them to the proclamation of doom for those who both worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark. Their fate is "special". The fate of those who only worship the beast and his image (if that were possible), and those who ONLY receive the mark, is the same fate as the unsaved. They aren't covered by the proclamation. However, considering what worship the beast and his image means in greek context, the only reason they wouldn't have the mark is if they died before they could get it.

No problem of all men being able to buy goods/foods/drinks, for such things will be in abundant just before the coming of Christ.

Matthew 24:38​

“For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,”

This isn't speaking about just before the coming of Christ through Revelation, but is speaking of the coming final judgment. This is why Jesus had no sign to give the disciples. All Jesus could tell them is that life will be continuing on as usual, and then one day, people will be taken to final judgment.

"36 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone. 37 For [y]the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah. 38 For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and they did not [z]understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40 Then there will be two men in the field; one [aa]will be taken and one [ab]will be left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the [ac]mill; one [ad]will be taken and one [ae]will be left."

Verse 40-41 is not the rapture, but the final judgment before eternity. Only the Father knows when the complete end of everything will come. (The last question the disciples asked was, using greek terminology, not asking about the time right before the millennial Kingdom, they were still thinking Jewish eschatology, but what comes after. The consummation of everything. Not even the Son knows when the creation will come to an end, only the Father. As to how that can be is a mystery we will have to wait to find out.

Luke 17:28
“Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;”

The reason this is is because the beast isn't around anymore. Again, the final judgment that comes after everything. It is part of the consummation of God's creative purpose. (purpose in creation). After this, there is nothing but eternity, new heavens and new earth.

Business as usual, but truly, better than ever!

Jesus was only saying it will be business as usual. He isn't talking qualitatively. Life will continue after the tribulation is over as usual, and then judgment will come at the end. No one but the Father knows when 1. The Kingdom will be restored to Israel, 2. When the final judgment will be.

Yes, there are plenty of blanks still left, but that is what prophecy, and watching and waiting fill in as time goes on. Consider that the end before the Kingdom is all out war and bloodshed. Not exactly business as usual.

 

[TMSO]

You folks are not considering all scriptures, thereby, you cannot understand what it means to buy and sell.

As you say, consider the all the scriptures.
"12 And Jesus entered the temple and drove out all those who were buying and selling in the temple, and overturned the tables of the money changers and the seats of those who were selling doves."
The Bible does speak of what buying and selling is. So, consider all scriptures.

Buy and selling has reference to moving freely within, and among, the false churches of the latter day, and only those men and women who have the mark of the beast, will be able to do so. The mark of the beast is the depraved human nature unconverted, men whom God has left to themselves, the two third, or, the majority of professing believers. These men and women alone can operate within the harlot churches of the last days. Actually, many of the great among them, become filthy rich, and live like kings. It is NOW going on right before our eyes! These men and women have no such silly thing as a micro chip, etc., for them to do so~all they need is a lying spirit working through them that allows them to buy and sell, or live among them. The Benny Hinn's of the harlot church, along with many others, do quite well.

The microchip is a possible future of banking and the economy. Many are pushing this way, and digital money is one of the first steps. Some companies have already employed such microchips for their employees. Not sure how far it has gotten though. However, the mark is just that, a mark on the forehead or the right hand. The Bible is VERY descriptive. That mark speaks of alignment or allegiance. Possibly even ownership.

As for how things will be, remember there is this guy on a horse known as famine. The price of food will skyrocket, kind of like it already has. Not because there is necessarily a shortage of food. For instance, Russia's war with Ukraine has put, or will put, a major crimp on the world supply as grain, as they supplied a HUGE amount of grain for the whole world. I forget how much.

After the tribulation, the world will head back towards a normal, such as before Noah's time. The final end will come and no one will know when.

 

[CrowCross]

The point is, you don't have to decide. Hold your view —fine— but just because you don't see theirs doesn't mean you are right about yours.

I guess you never know....but as I have said, the preterist have said Rev has already happened. If so, why don't they shut us up and show us where Rev 8 and 9 happened.

I've already shown how our current technology can pretty much do what the mark is said to do.

But FWIW you are far from the worst here with this demeaner. (Lol, I find myself having to remind myself that though it is logical that nothing but whatever happens could have happened, it doesn't mean that that narrative, (that nothing can happen except whatever does happen), is quite accurate, even though to me it fits Scripture perfectly, (even if it does wander a ways from the conventional). God will make a fool of me too, and from the POV of some, me saying such a thing borders on madness. Well, they may be right; it is madmen whose logic can't be unraveled.)

 

[makesends]

I guess you never know....but as I have said, the preterist have said Rev has already happened. If so, why don't they shut us up and show us where Rev 8 and 9 happened.

I've already shown how our current technology can pretty much do what the mark is said to do.

I understand that. But none of us have it quite right.