The False Doctrine of a 7-year Tribulation

[eclipseEventSigns]

The Bible shows what is true, not what men may say or tell others, need to show from scripture what is true.

LOL. Yes, it does. But most people don't understand it correctly.

 

[Eleanor]

Scripture specifically stating the trinity?

Scripture denying the Trinity; i.e., three distinct persons in one God (Mt 28:19)?

Likewise, irrelevant to the rapture where NT apostolic teaching
1) specifically states the rapture is with the second coming of Jesus in final judgment (2 Th 1:6-10, 2:1-8), and
2) states there will be no appearance (Ac 3:21, Heb 9:28) nor revealing (1 Pe 1:5, 13) of Jesus until that coming in final judgment (Lk 17:29-37,
2 Th 2:1, 3, 8).

A pretribulation rapture is the notion of man, based solely in eisegesis (and never even heard of in the church until about 200 years ago).

 

[TMSO]

Scripture?

I John 2
21 I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it, and [f]because no lie is of the truth. 22 Who is the liar except the one who denies that Jesus is the [g]Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son. 23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also. 24 As for you, see that what you heard from the beginning remains in you. If what you heard from the beginning remains in you, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father.

John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God. 2 [a]He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him [b]not even one thing came into being that has come into being. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the Light of mankind. 5 And the Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not [c]grasp it.

6 A man [d]came, one sent from God, and his name was John. 7 [e]He came [f]as a witness, to testify about the Light, so that all might believe through him. 8 [g]He was not the Light, but he came to testify about the Light.

9 [h]This was the true Light [i]that, coming into the world, enlightens every person. 10 He was in the world, and the world came into being through Him, and yet the world did not [j]know Him. 11 He came to His [k]own, and His own people did not [l]accept Him. 12 But [m]as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who [n]believe in His name, 13 who were [o]born, not of [p]blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of a man, but of God.

14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us; and we saw His glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth. 15 John *testified about Him and called out, saying, “This was He of whom I said, ‘He who is coming after me has proved to be [q]my superior, because He existed before me.’”

Who is light? God. God is light. God is life. What is Jesus? According to this, He is God. He was in the beginning with God. Nothing came into being apart from Jesus. The Father and the Spirit both testified of the Son. John also testified of the Son, of th elight, the true Light. Israel was God's own people, but here it says that Jesus came to His own people who did not accept Him. Again, Jesus was/is God. However, He is God incarnate, God in the flesh. God taken upon Himself human form, dwelling in His creation as one of His creation. Flesh and Spirit, human and divine natures in one body, in full communion. The sacrifice, and the High Priest who sanctifies the sacrifice.

I John 4
"Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God; 3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming, and now it is already in the world."

Why is this important in I John? Gnosticism was being born. The belief that Jesus did not come in the flesh because the flesh is evil. The belief that Jesus didn't actually come to Earth at all, but only in a spiritual way, much less died on the cross. Another belief is that Jesus was solely human, and the divine came upon Him at baptism and left before His crucifixion.

Last but not least those verses that command we be baptized in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. There are other passages (quite a few), however, you will notice that the word trinity did not show up once.

 

[TMSO]

Scripture denying the Trinity; i.e., three distinct persons in one God (Mt 28:19)?

Likewise, irrelevant to the rapture where NT apostolic teaching
1) specifically states the rapture is with the second coming of Jesus in final judgment (2 Th 1:6-10, 2:1-8), and
2) states there will be no appearance (Ac 3:21, Heb 9:28) nor revealing (1 Pe 1:5, 13) of Jesus until that coming in final judgment (Lk 17:29-37,
2 Th 2:1, 3, 8).

A pretribulation rapture is the notion of man, based solely in eisegesis (and never even heard of in the church until about 200 years ago).

Please present the word rapture stated explicitly in those verses. And again, if you read the verses in Thessalonians, it doesn't say Jesus comes to Earth. It is not speaking of His second coming. We meet Him in the air, there to be with Him forever. Where does it say He and us return to Earth at that time?

A pretribulation rapture is not eisegesis. It may be wrong, but the early church fathers did discuss the idea that God would not pour out His wrath that is intended for Satan and his followers, onto His own children. He doesn't toss both the wheat and the chaff into the flames. The pretribulation rapture I believe is one of two beliefs as to how God's children would avoid God's wrath. However, as spoken by the early church fathers, it is more akin to what we would call a mid-trib rapture.

 

[Eleanor]

I John 2
21 I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it, and [f]because no lie is of the truth. 22 Who is the liar except the one who denies that Jesus is the [g]Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son. 23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also. 24 As for you, see that what you heard from the beginning remains in you. If what you heard from the beginning remains in you, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father.

John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God. 2 [a]He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him [b]not even one thing came into being that has come into being. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the Light of mankind. 5 And the Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not [c]grasp it.

6 A man [d]came, one sent from God, and his name was John. 7 [e]He came [f]as a witness, to testify about the Light, so that all might believe through him. 8 [g]He was not the Light, but he came to testify about the Light.

9 [h]This was the true Light [i]that, coming into the world, enlightens every person. 10 He was in the world, and the world came into being through Him, and yet the world did not [j]know Him. 11 He came to His [k]own, and His own people did not [l]accept Him. 12 But [m]as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who [n]believe in His name, 13 who were [o]born, not of [p]blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of a man, but of God.

14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us; and we saw His glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth. 15 John *testified about Him and called out, saying, “This was He of whom I said, ‘He who is coming after me has proved to be [q]my superior, because He existed before me.’”

Who is light? God. God is light. God is life. What is Jesus? According to this, He is God. He was in the beginning with God. Nothing came into being apart from Jesus. The Father and the Spirit both testified of the Son. John also testified of the Son, of th elight, the true Light. Israel was God's own people, but here it says that Jesus came to His own people who did not accept Him. Again, Jesus was/is God. However, He is God incarnate, God in the flesh. God taken upon Himself human form, dwelling in His creation as one of His creation. Flesh and Spirit, human and divine natures in one body, in full communion. The sacrifice, and the High Priest who sanctifies the sacrifice.

I John 4
"Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God; 3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming, and now it is already in the world."

Why is this important in I John? Gnosticism was being born. The belief that Jesus did not come in the flesh because the flesh is evil. The belief that Jesus didn't actually come to Earth at all, but only in a spiritual way, much less died on the cross. Another belief is that Jesus was solely human, and the divine came upon Him at baptism and left before His crucifixion.

Last but not least those verses that command we be baptized in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. There are other passages (quite a few), however, you will notice that the word trinity did not show up once.

There is baptism in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, which makes no statement as to the divinity of the Holy Spirit as Jn 1:1,14 states the divinity of Jesus.

 

[eclipseEventSigns]

Please present the word rapture stated explicitly in those verses.

LOL. Oh, the old strawman argument continues to be used. This has been disproven time and time again.

 

[Eleanor]

Please present the word rapture stated explicitly in those verses.

See post #62.

 

[eclipseEventSigns]

Not when you know the meaning of Biblical words.

Not to mention that prophecy is given in riddles (Nu 12:8) and not clearly, and is subject to more than one interpretation,
the only rule being that all interpretation must be in agreement with NT apostolic teaching authoritative to the church.
The Book of Revelation is prophesy and is not literal.

However, the apostolic teaching of 1 Co 16:22 is literal, where we have the parousia (coming) of Jesus mentioned, which parousia meant: the citizens going out of the city to meet an incoming dignitary and accompanying him back into the city, as in Jesus' entry into Jerusalem on Palm Sunday.

And that is what will happen at the parousia of Jesus (1 Co 16:22); i.e.,
he will appear in the skies,
mankind will be resurrected,
the saints will be caught up together in the clouds (rapture) to meet the Lord in the air (1 Th 4:17) and will
then accompany him back to earth for the final judgment,
which according to apostolic teaching occurs in the last day along with the resurrection:

Jesus locates the resurrection in the last day (Jn 6:39),
Paul locates the resurrection with the rapture (1 Th 4:16).
Jesus locates the rapture with the second coming (Mt 24:39-41).
Jesus locates the second coming with the judgment of the sheep and goats (Mt 25:31-33).

So in terms of the time of their occurrence, the necessary conclusion is:
second coming = resurrection = rapture = final judgment of sheep and goats (all mankind)

Because it is metaphorical (prophetic riddle) of the church age.

Hard to correct these misstatements because your are using your own definitions of concepts. What is this "apostolic" teaching you are referring to? What denomination is that? All that matters is the original text and what the original authors meant by what they wrote.

 

[Eleanor]

Hard to correct these misstatements because your are using your own definitions of concepts.

The definitions are from the definitions of the Greek words used therein.

What is this "apostolic" teaching you are referring to? What denomination is that?

The New Testament. . .penned by the apostles and quoted in post #88, #62.

All that matters is the original text and what the original authors meant by what they wrote.

Which is what I am presenting.

 

[eclipseEventSigns]

The definitions are from the definitions of the Greek words used therein.

The New Testament. . .penned by the apostles and quoted in post #88, #62.

Which is what I am presenting.

It's not what you are presenting. You are stating weird phrases and your own words.

 

[Eleanor]

It's not what you are presenting. You are stating weird phrases and your own words.

You must be specific, as well as demonstrate your assertion, to be credible.

 

[eclipseEventSigns]

You must be specific, as well as demonstrate your assertion, to be credible.

LOL. Read the comments. I was VERY specific in where you are in error.

 

[Eleanor]

LOL. Read the comments. I was VERY specific in where you are in error.

Assertion without specificity and without demonstration is assertion without merit.

 

[eclipseEventSigns]

Assertion without specificity and without demonstration is assertion without merit.

How about actually reading and responding in an honest and respectful manner.

 

[Eleanor]

How about actually reading and responding in an honest and respectful manner.

See post #93.

 

[eclipseEventSigns]

See post #93.

Whatever. You aren't worth taking seriously then. If you don't accept correction, then it's a waste of time.

 

[Eleanor]

Whatever. You aren't worth taking seriously then. If you don't accept correction, then it's a waste of time.

When your "correction" of posts #62, #82 is Biblically demonstrated, not just asserted, it won't be a waste of time for either of us.

 

[eclipseEventSigns]

When your "correction" of posts #62, #82 is Biblically demonstrated, not just asserted, it won't be a waste of time for either of us.

You have not demonstrated that you are even open to correction or even open to consider other opinions. So, no, it is a waste of time dealing with closed minds and unrepentant people.

 

[Eleanor]

You have not demonstrated that you are even open to correction or even open to consider other opinions. So, no, it is a waste of time dealing with closed minds and unrepentant people.

And your Biblical demonstration of your "correction"?

 

[Sheila3]

First, lets read through the entire prophecy so that we get the whole idea first and then well break it down.

Daniel 9
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. 25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. 26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

One thing that must be understood first is the a day for a year rule established in Eze 4:6. For every day that is mentioned in this and all other biblical prophecies they are equal to a prophetic year. There is virtually no debate about this point in Christian circles and well find that the rule holds true in this prophecy.

The Timeframe:
The angel Gabriel starts the prophecy by giving a block of time in verse 24, seventy weeks. Seventy weeks is equal to 490 days, or 490 prophetic years. That is our timeframe for this prophecy from beginning to end.

Verse 25 tells us when this timeframe begins, from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem. When did this occur? See Ezra 7; for this is the command where the rebuilding of Jerusalem was actually accomplished and that command was given by Artaxerxes, king of Persia; which occurred in 457 BC. There were two other kings that made similar commands to rebuild Jerusalem but those proved to not be fruitful.

This is the total 70-week block given by Gabriel in verses 25 & 27:
Block 1: 7 Weeks - (49 years) - Starts in 457 BC

Block 2: 62 Weeks - (434 years) - Starts in 408 BC

Block 3: 1 week - (7 years) - Starts in 27 AD

Lets look closely at the last week/ 7-year block (Block 3); for this is the period of time that many think will be the famous Seven-year Tribulation of the future:

3 ½ Years + 3 ½ Years = 7 years (one week)
o This block starts in 27 AD. What happened in this year? Christ was baptized, anointed, and started His public ministry.
o The "midst of the week" started in 31 AD (3 ½ years later). What happened in this year? Christ was killed on the cross. (New Covenant confirmed.)
o This block ends in 34 AD. What happened in this year? Stephen, the last disciple to the Jews, was stoned by the Sanhedrin and the Gospel went out to the Gentiles.

So we see that this breakdown perfectly follows the prophecy of Daniel 9 and we find that this prophecy was about the coming Messiah (Jesus Christ); history and later books of the Bible verify this.

Amen - I've always thought that.