The False Doctrine of a 7-year Tribulation

[Mr GLee]

That answer is no....BUT....the scripture does present a temple in the end times. From this understanding one can easily conclude that in the end times there will be a temple for the anti-Christ to enter and declare himself as God.

2 Thes 2:3 Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,4 who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.

The antichrist coming again declare he as a Jewish man, he is God as the King of kings ?

The first century reformation put end to that kind of order.The abomination of desolation Kings in Israel .A pagan foundation.Dying mankind man in the place of God not seen. God had given over to the faithless Jews to do that which they should not (Kings in Israel)

1 Samuel 8:4-8 Then all the elders of Israel gathered themselves (Not called) together, and came to Samuel unto Ramah,And said unto him, Behold, thou art old, and thy sons walk not in thy ways: now make us a king to judge us like all the nations. But the thing displeased Samuel, when they said, Give us a king to judge us. And Samuel prayed unto the Lord. And the Lord said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them. According to all the works which they have done since the day that I brought them up out of Egypt even unto this day, wherewith they have forsaken me, and served other gods, so do they also unto thee.

When the promised first century reformation came the veil was rent. There was no Jewish man as King of kings sitting in the holy of holies .

Satan fell into a bottomless pit losing his ability to deceive all the nations of the word that God is a Jewish man.

Legion, many gods, as Satan tried to deceive mankind that God is Jewish man using Peter the serial denier to teach us what not to do .Puff up dying mankind as if they were eternal God not seen .

Peter was not sitting in the holy of holies .The veil is still rent

The Lord given words to his prophet Jesus rebuked the spirit lies .In effect saying get behind me not seen. Walk according to my eternal faith, not Peter the temporal dying

Mathew 16: 22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men

 

[CrowCross]

It makes it false bc Dan 9 is shredded beyond recognition.

No, It doesn't make the pre-trib rapture false.

 

[CrowCross]

That the 490 years is intact. There is not a hint of splitting it and the break at 7 weeks means only that the destructive events are way overdue.

When you apply cut off and the calendar it does. There is 7 years left.

 

[EarlyActs]

No, It doesn't make the pre-trib rapture false.

But there is no single piece or mechanism like that which defines all the rest.

It sounds like you are happy to ruin Daniel 9 if the pre trib rapture is intact.

 

[CrowCross]

Once again a natural reading of Thess material is that he was answering doubts or anxieties right then; not “answers” X000 years in the future for 1st cent people. That’s just silly.

For most of that generation, the final day of judgement was expected right after the destruction of Israel, Mt 24:29. We must alter this exactly as the NT does: 2P3 answers why there was a delay in the worldwide. No future segment of events in our times is even hinted.

Doubts or anxieties about what?
They were afraid Jesus returned....and Paul was telling them the rapture hasn't happened yet.

 

[CrowCross]

There are plenty of practical reasons to resist dictatorship and the WEF!!! We don’t have to break the NT history to do that.

It's coming unless God stops it.

 

[CrowCross]

But there is no single piece or mechanism like that which defines all the rest.

It sounds like you are happy to ruin Daniel 9 if the pre trib rapture is intact.

If you say so.

 

[EarlyActs]

When you apply cut off and the calendar it does. There is 7 years left.

No there is not. Are you innumerate? He took it to 490 complete years as it says.

My only difference with him is that the critical generation of Israel, the fatal one, stretches out “the end” of v27. Or continues it at least 40 years.

 

[EarlyActs]

It's coming unless God stops it.

People have organized and stopped dictators before.

But must realize the WEFs have plans totally different from the Rev , right? 1/8 population? Vegetarianism? So stop trying to find every detail on the Rev.

Complain to your national reps; they treat each one as a shift of 1000 votes, acc to research by Act For America (B Gabriel).

 

[EarlyActs]

Doubts or anxieties about what?
They were afraid Jesus returned....and Paul was telling them the rapture hasn't happened yet.

About the loss of their friends or relatives. They were to be rejoined in the events of destruction—saved from it. 1 Th 4. But then then the worlds destruction didn’t happen, only Israel’s. So all this was changed.

That’s why there is a delay statement in 2 P3

You realize that in order for them to grieve that the return had happened proves it was expected right then, don’t you?

 

[Mr GLee]

There are two dawning ups, raptures .

The first which opened the graves and the old testament saints entered into the city of Christ prepared for his bride the church Therefore opening the gates of salvation. Today no waiting period. To be absent of these bodies of death we are present with him in that new eternal city. On the last day those asleep in Christ and those that remain will both in twinkling of the eye receive new promised incorruptible body that will never die Then the salvation gate will close.

 

[Josheb]

We can easily find the origin of this false idea of 7 year of tribulation that has been spread among Christians...

Good Morning Hobie,

Commendable op. Weren't you a Darbyite not too long ago? I seem to remember you and I debating these matters from opposite sides in the past. Or do I have you confused with another poster? If you were, what changed it for you?

 

[EarlyActs]

When you apply cut off and the calendar it does. There is 7 years left.

What does “apply cut off” actually mean? Who told you to do that?

 

[EarlyActs]

The ‘apostasia’ was the failure of Israel to do what the many visions said they should do when Messiah—to preach him among the nations. Generally , Israel followed the zealots and fought for independence , thinking there would be a supernatural victory over its enemies.

 

[Josheb]

Why do people want to put this last week of the 70 at the end times?

Because bad teachers give reason for the uninformed to believe bad teaching.

Conclusion:
There is no 7-year Tribulation at the end of the world.

There is no "end of the world." For centuries Christians of all ilk and sectarian belief believed in an end of the "world" because of poor translation. This was especially so when the Douay-Rheims and King James translations were all the Church had because those translations (and the more modern translations that held to the KJV tradition) translated verses like Matthew 13:49's "aionos" as "world" instead of "age."

There is no 7-year tribulation at the end of the age.

The tribulation was something to which the disciples would be handed over (Mt. 24:9), something from which they would need to flee (Mt. 24:20) and would see knowing it would be cut short for their sake (Mt. 24:22). It was an event that was near to (Rev. 1:3) and came after what John had seen and was experiencing (Rev. 1:19) when he received his vision, and something the Christians of his day would survive.

Revelation 7:13-17
Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, "These who are clothed in the white robes, who are they, and where have they come from?" I said to him, "My lord, you know." And he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. For this reason, they are before the throne of God; and they serve Him day and night in His temple; and He who sits on the throne will spread His tabernacle over them. They will hunger no longer, nor thirst anymore; nor will the sun beat down on them, nor any heat; for the Lamb in the center of the throne will be their shepherd and will guide them to springs of the water of life; and God will wipe every tear from their eyes."

However, from the time the Zealots captured Jerusalem and the time the Romans left the flattened city was seven years (66-73AD). It was quite bad. The fires were so proliferous, so intense and so hot that the gold melted off the walls of the temple and seeped into the crevices between the stones because they'd been honed so fine no mortar was used to connect them. In those days a soldiers' wages were part bounty so they left the city to retrieve plows from the fields so the stones their knives and swords could not pry up could be unearthed and their bounty taken.

Zechariah 14:1
Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.


All because they would not believe in the name of God's only Son.

 

[Eleanor]

We can easily find the origin of this false idea of 7 year of tribulation that has been spread among Christians...
And where the error and deception came from
"The Origins of the Pretribulation Rapture Theory
The pretribulation rapture theory is a relatively recent development in Christian theology, with its roots in the 19th century. John Nelson Darby, a British evangelist and influential figure in the Plymouth Brethren movement, is often credited with popularizing this idea. Darby’s teachings, along with the widespread distribution of the Scofield Reference Bible in the early 20th century, helped to promote the pretribulation rapture theory among Christians in the United States and beyond.

Biblical Evidence Against the Pretribulation Rapture
Although proponents of the pretribulation rapture theory claim that their beliefs are rooted in Scripture, a closer examination of the Bible reveals that there is no clear evidence to support this idea. In fact, several passages suggest that believers will face tribulation and difficulties before being gathered to Christ"

https://mdcreekmore.com/the-pretribulation-rapture-a-false-doctrine-born-from-deception/

There is not one verse in all of Scripture that specifically locates the rapture before the tribulation.
A pretribulation rapture is the notion of man, based solely in eisegesis (and never even heard of in the church until about 200 years ago).

Whereas NT apostolic teaching
1) specifically locates the rapture with the second coming of Jesus in final judgment (2 Th 1:6-10, 2:1-8), and
2) states there will be no appearance (Ac 3:21, Heb 9:28) nor revealing (1 Pe 1:5, 13) of Jesus until that coming in final judgment (Lk 17:29-37,
2 Th 2:1, 3, 8).

 

[TMSO]

There is not one verse in all of Scripture that specifically locates the rapture before the tribulation.
A pretribulation rapture is the notion of man, based solely in eisegesis (and never even heard of in the church until about 200 years ago).

Consider Irenaeus “For Enoch, when he pleased God, was translated in the same body in which he did please Him, thus pointing out by anticipation the translation of the just. Elijah, too, was caught up [when he was yet] in the substance of the [natural] form; thus exhibiting in prophecy the assumption of those who are spiritual, and that nothing stood in the way of their body being translated and caught up.”

and

“And therefore, when in the end the Church shall be suddenly caught up from this, it is said, ‘There shall be tribulation such as has not been since the beginning, neither shall be’ (Mat 24:21). For this is the last contest of the righteous, in which, when they overcome they are crowned with incorruption.”
(2nd century, disciple of Polycarp, disciple of John the apostle.)

Victorinus of Petrovium: “And the heaven withdrew as a scroll that is rolled up.] For the heaven to be rolled away, that is, that the Church shall be taken away.”

and for Revelation 15:
“And I saw another great and wonderful sign, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is completed the indignation of God.] For the wrath of God always strikes the obstinate people with seven plagues, that is, perfectly, as it is said in Leviticus; and these shall be in the last time, when the Church shall have gone out of the midst.”

And for a clear telling prior to Darby:

Morgan Edwards (1722-1795) “The dead saints will be raised, and the living changed at Christ’s ‘appearing in the air’ (1Thes.iv,17); and this will be about three years and a half before the millennium … but will he and they abide in the air all that time? No: they will ascend to paradise, or to some one of those many ‘mansions in the father’s house’ (John xiv.2), and so disappear during the foresaid period of time. The design of this retreat and disappearing will be to judge the risen and changed saints.”

(He believed the great tribulation was only 3 1/2 years, like the writer of pseudo ephraim.)

William Sherwin (1607-1687) had this to say “This Doctrine many of the ancient Fathers acknowledged … Justine Martyr … Irenaeus … Tertullian … even Augustine sometime held it, though by the subtlety of Satan, forgeing lyes to asperse the Millenary opinion, and stirring men up to foist in offensive errours … in these latter times hath again discovered it, after so many hundred years of its lying hid for the most part in the Church, to be a doctrine really embraced by his faithful people [who] will doubtless certainly know, that upon their rapture to meet Christ, they shall be perfected in glory evermore in heaven.”

There are a lot of people who have done their best to bury this truth. What is this truth? That almost every belief in the church comes from what has been held in the church in the past. Premillennialism, and even the rapture has been in the church since all the way back to Irenaeus. However, many disagree, and have buried this history. The lies persist to this day. Does that mean that it is correct? No, but it means many are lying by saying it is Darby who created it.

Whereas NT apostolic teaching
1) specifically locates the rapture with the second coming of Jesus in final judgment (2 Th 1:6-10, 2:1-8), and
2) states there will be no appearance (Ac 3:21, Heb 9:28) nor revealing (1 Pe 1:5, 13) of Jesus until that coming in final judgment (Lk 17:29-37,
2 Th 2:1, 3, 8).

Jesus said that Jerusalem (Israel) would not see Him again until they say "blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord." That is, not until Israel accepts Jesus as Messiah.

 

[Eleanor]

There is not one verse in all of Scripture that specifically locates the rapture before the tribulation.
A pretribulation rapture is the notion of man, based solely in eisegesis (and never even heard of in the church until about 200 years ago).

Whereas NT apostolic teaching
1) specifically locates the rapture with the second coming of Jesus in final judgment (2 Th 1:6-10, 2:1-8), and
2) states there will be no appearance (Ac 3:21, Heb 9:28) nor revealing (1 Pe 1:5, 13) of Jesus until that coming in final judgment (Lk 17:29-37,
2 Th 2:1, 3, 8).

Consider Irenaeus “For Enoch, when he pleased God, was translated in the same body in which he did please Him, thus pointing out by anticipation the translation of the just. Elijah, too, was caught up [when he was yet] in the substance of the [natural] form; thus exhibiting in prophecy the assumption of those who are spiritual, and that nothing stood in the way of their body being translated and caught up.”
and
“And therefore, when in the end the Church shall be suddenly caught up from this, it is said, ‘There shall be tribulation such as has not been since the beginning, neither shall be’ (Mat 24:21). For this is the last contest of the righteous, in which, when they overcome they are crowned with incorruption.”
(2nd century, disciple of Polycarp, disciple of John the apostle.)

Victorinus of Petrovium: “And the heaven withdrew as a scroll that is rolled up.] For the heaven to be rolled away, that is, that the Church shall be taken away.”

and for Revelation 15:
“And I saw another great and wonderful sign, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is completed the indignation of God.] For the wrath of God always strikes the obstinate people with seven plagues, that is, perfectly, as it is said in Leviticus; and these shall be in the last time, when the Church shall have gone out of the midst.”

And for a clear telling prior to Darby:

Morgan Edwards (1722-1795) “The dead saints will be raised, and the living changed at Christ’s ‘appearing in the air’ (1Thes.iv,17); and this will be about three years and a half before the millennium … but will he and they abide in the air all that time? No: they will ascend to paradise, or to some one of those many ‘mansions in the father’s house’ (John xiv.2), and so disappear during the foresaid period of time. The design of this retreat and disappearing will be to judge the risen and changed saints.”

(He believed the great tribulation was only 3 1/2 years, like the writer of pseudo ephraim.)

William Sherwin (1607-1687) had this to say “This Doctrine many of the ancient Fathers acknowledged … Justine Martyr … Irenaeus … Tertullian … even Augustine sometime held it, though by the subtlety of Satan, forgeing lyes to asperse the Millenary opinion, and stirring men up to foist in offensive errours … in these latter times hath again discovered it, after so many hundred years of its lying hid for the most part in the Church, to be a doctrine really embraced by his faithful people [who] will doubtless certainly know, that upon their rapture to meet Christ, they shall be perfected in glory evermore in heaven.”

There are a lot of people who have done their best to bury this truth. What is this truth? That almost every belief in the church comes from what has been held in the church in the past. Premillennialism, and even the rapture has been in the church since all the way back to Irenaeus. However, many disagree, and have buried this history. The lies persist to this day. Does that mean that it is correct? No, but it means many are lying by saying it is Darby who created it.

Jesus said that Jerusalem (Israel) would not see Him again until they say "blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord." That is, not until Israel accepts Jesus as Messiah.

Scripture text specifically locating the rapture before the tribulation?

 

[TMSO]

Scripture text specifically locating the rapture before the tribulation?

Scripture specifically stating the trinity?

 

[Josheb]

Scripture text specifically locating the rapture before the tribulation?

Scripture specifically stating the trinity?

The answer to questions like Eleanor's is never an appeal to the Trinity. Eleanor (nor I) was not asking if you are inventing a term based on what scripture states. She is asking if your beliefs are based on something explicitly stated in scripture, if so here, and if not then do you possess and ability to acknowledge that fact? The answer to that question then fosters a new line of discussion that is warranted and beneficial to have but rarely occurs because if your position is not based on something specifically, explicitly stated.....

• Why then do you believe it?
• How then did you arrive at that position?
• Are you aware of how much inference you do and where you do it and why?
• How else can the texts (assuming you use any) be read and why are they not read that way?

That is the short, abbreviated list. Your ability to answer Eleanor's question is revealing to all those reading your posts. Remember: all we have is what you post and if it looks like you are unable and unwilling to answer a question as valid and simple to answer as the one she asked then that is telling. Even when a person is unnecessarily snarky it's best to answer the question asked and if you think the other poster is trolling the silence is the best response - not a non sequitur.



Do you have scripture text specifically locating the rapture before the tribulation or not?