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The False Doctrine of a 7-year Tribulation

Eleanor said:
So you don't have a Biblical demonstration of your assertion. . .it is simply your personal opinion.
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You can continue to show your immaturity by going round and round and round. Doesn't change the fact that you are in error, refuse to be teachable and want to cause problems.
 
Eleanor said:
There is baptism in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, which makes no statement as to the divinity of the Holy Spirit as Jn 1:1,14 states the divinity of Jesus.
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So the Holy Spirit is another God? (Note: He is not.) Why does the Bible always speak of "He" when speaking of the Holy Spirit, if it isn't a person of some sort? Why does it never speak of the Holy Spirit as an impersonal force? Is it possible to blaspheme an impersonal force? Why would Jesus speak of the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit together when speaking of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, if it didn't have any import?
 
TMSO said:
So the Holy Spirit is another God? (Note: He is not.) Why does the Bible always speak of "He" when speaking of the Holy Spirit, if it isn't a person of some sort? Why does it never speak of the Holy Spirit as an impersonal force? Is it possible to blaspheme an impersonal force? Why would Jesus speak of the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit together when speaking of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, if it didn't have any import?
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The Holy Spirit is the third divine person of the Trinity, yet the Holy Spirit is nowhere stated to be God in the NT (as is Jesus in Jn 1:1, 14).

However, the Holy Spirit is stated to
1) proceed out from within God (Jn 15:26), just as Jesus does (Jn 8:42, 16:27, 28, 17:8),
2) to be another Comforter like Jesus (Jn 14:16-17, 25-26, 15:26, 16:7),
3) to be a person (Jn 16:13-14),
4) be one with Jesus (2 Co 3:16-18), who is God (Jn 1:1, 14),

which makes the Holy Spirit the third person of the Godhead (Mt 28:19), although not specifically stated to be so.
 
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Eleanor said:
There is baptism in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, which makes no statement as to the divinity of the Holy Spirit as Jn 1:1,14 states the divinity of Jesus.
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Curiously, it says, "the name" (singular) of the three.
 
makesends said:
Curiously, it says, "the name" (singular) of the three.
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Got me there!

Keeping in mind I am demonstrating that the NT does not specifically state a divine "Trinity," although it clearly presents such.
 
Eleanor said:
The Holy Spirit is the third divine person of the Trinity, yet the Holy Spirit is nowhere stated to be God in the NT (as is Jesus in Jn 1:1, 14).

However, the Holy Spirit is stated to
1) proceed out from within God (Jn 15:26), just as Jesus does (Jn 8:42, 16:27, 28, 17:8),
2) to be another Comforter like Jesus (Jn 14:16-17, 25-26, 15:26, 16:7),
3) to be a person (Jn 16:13-14),
4) be one with Jesus (2 Co 3:16-18), who is God (Jn 1:1, 14),

which makes the Holy Spirit the third person of the Godhead (Mt 28:19), although not specifically stated to be so.
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Consider God said who can know the mind/heart of man but the spirit of man. It is part of the man. Who can know the mind/heart of God but the Spirit of God. (The Holy Spirit). The reason the Spirit knows how to pray when we don't is because the Spirit knows the mind of God. Why? Because the Holy Spirit is one of the persons of the God head.
 
TMSO said:
Consider God said who can know the mind/heart of man but the spirit of man. It is part of the man. Who can know the mind/heart of God but the Spirit of God. (The Holy Spirit). The reason the Spirit knows how to pray when we don't is because the Spirit knows the mind of God. Why? Because the Holy Spirit is one of the persons of the God head.
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@Eleanor is not arguing against the fact of the Holy Spirit being God. I think you are misunderstanding the point of her post. Read it again.
 
makesends said:
@Eleanor is not arguing against the fact of the Holy Spirit being God. I think you are misunderstanding the point of her post. Read it again.
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No she isn't. She is arguing against me saying that the concept of the trinity is covered in scripture as I say it is. The argument isn't about whether there is a trinity or not. The argument is that the rapture is a concept covered in scripture, even if the word does not appear, just as the concept of the trinity is present, even though the word does not appear.
 
TMSO said:
No she isn't. She is arguing against me saying that the concept of the trinity is covered in scripture as I say it is. The argument isn't about whether there is a trinity or not. The argument is that the rapture is a concept covered in scripture, even if the word does not appear, just as the concept of the trinity is present, even though the word does not appear.
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The word "rapture" (harpazo, catching/snatching up) does appear in Scripture--1 Th 4:16-17.
 
Hobie said:
We can easily find the origin of this false idea of 7 year of tribulation that has been spread among Christians...

And where the error and deception came from

"The Origins of the Pretribulation Rapture Theory

The pretribulation rapture theory is a relatively recent development in Christian theology, with its roots in the 19th century. John Nelson Darby, a British evangelist and influential figure in the Plymouth Brethren movement, is often credited with popularizing this idea. Darby’s teachings, along with the widespread distribution of the Scofield Reference Bible in the early 20th century, helped to promote the pretribulation rapture theory among Christians in the United States and beyond.

Biblical Evidence Against the Pretribulation Rapture

Although proponents of the pretribulation rapture theory claim that their beliefs are rooted in Scripture, a closer examination of the Bible reveals that there is no clear evidence to support this idea. In fact, several passages suggest that believers will face tribulation and difficulties before being gathered to Christ"

So if one looks, its not hard to see its source of this false doctrine, and its not the Bible.
This is idea brought in of 'seven years of tribulation' is one of the worst deceptions which has led to much confusion about the Second Coming of Christ, which is the deceivers purpose. This false doctrine has come out of strange origin and been spread as a 'new enlightenment' and many people tend to just repeat what they have heard, or pick up unscriptural beliefs from others with no support, or look for something that twists or distorts the truth, and this is what is this false doctrine of a 7 year tribulation. There is not one verse in the entire Bible says their a 7-year Tribulation. Some try to claim Daniel 9:24-27 as teaching this, but unless one comes to this passage already having a predisposed bias, they will not find it there. This false idea is not scriptural and no biblical commentator, no theologian, no church in Christendom had ever taught such a doctrine.

The doctrine basically did not exist before John Darby, and was promoted through the wide circulation of the Scofield Reference Bible in the early 20th century and spread from there. But the idea or doctrine of a 7-year Tribulation is simply not mentioned in Daniel 9, and is clearly unscriptural. The idea of a seven year tribulation comes from a misinterpretation of Daniel chapter 9 which is a prophecy about the Messiah, not the antichrist or a seven year tribulation. Here is a great explanation by my buddy palehorse..'There are many theories out there in regards to the 70th Week of the Daniel 9 prophecy. The most prevalent one talks about a 7-year tribulation just prior to Christ's second coming. Many believers in the 7-year Tribulation don't know that this belief is rooted in the Daniel 9 prophecy. In fact, one of the most important verses used to support this idea is Dan 9:27, which we will look at along with the entire prophecy. Also, it is from Dan 9:27 that the belief in "The Antichrist" and the rebuilding of the Jewish Temple on the temple mount comes from. The series of events outlined in this theory is that 1) there will be a secret rapture that takes all true Christians away leaving others behind, 2) then a 7-year tribulation occurs where those who were not taken in the secret rapture will get a chance to "clean up their act" so that when Christ's public appearance happens they can be judged worthy, 3) during the course of the 7-year tribulation the Antichrist will appear, make a covenant with the Jewish nation, then break that covenant in the middle of the 7 years, then hell walk inside the Jewish temple and declare himself to be God. But is this theory biblically accurate?
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This falsehood about the pretribulation rapture allegedly originating with Darby seems to be very prolific among a number of evangelicals. This narrative was being spouted back when I was in my teens, and it's still around. Wow.

MM
 
Musicmaster said:
This falsehood about the pretribulation rapture allegedly originating with Darby seems to be very prolific among a number of evangelicals.
This narrative was being spouted back when I was in my teens, and it's still around. Wow.
Click to expand...
It is so agreeable to the fancies of man that it may be with us for a while.
 
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