The Called !

[ChristB4us]

@grace2

I did not see your answer but just my quote in your last reply.

How do you align Matthew 5:17-20 with what you believe is Jesus's core teachings to be?

Anyway, this is how I see "the called" as the least in the kingdom of heaven that breaks any of His commandments, for why they get left behind, and the great are those that keeps His commandments to attend the Marriage Supper in that kingdom of heaven as the chosen which they can only do by His grace & by His help as their hope is on Him to finish that race to His glory as their confidence is in Him to finish also.

 

[grace2]

@grace2

I did not see your answer but just my quote in your last reply.

How do you align Matthew 5:17-20 with what you believe is Jesus's core teachings to be?

Anyway, this is how I see "the called" as the least in the kingdom of heaven that breaks any of His commandments, for why they get left behind, and the great are those that keeps His commandments to attend the Marriage Supper in that kingdom of heaven as the chosen which they can only do by His grace & by His help as their hope is on Him to finish that race to His glory as their confidence is in Him to finish also.

Matthew 5:17-20

New International Version

17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus is rebutting your doctrine that "your works cannot save you".

Jesus was not sent to abolish the law.

yet you changed to observing the law is meaningless for salvation.
​

 

[ChristB4us]

Jesus is rebutting your doctrine that "your works cannot save you".​

Jesus was not sent to abolish the law.​

yet you changed to observing the law is meaningless for salvation.​

Actually you missed the truth in His words for you made Jesus coming and dying on the cross as meaningless if you are still trying to live under the New Covenant as the Jews were trying to live under the Old Covenant and has failed.

 

[ChristB4us]

Jesus is rebutting your doctrine that "your works cannot save you".​

Jesus was not sent to abolish the law.​

yet you changed to observing the law is meaningless for salvation.​

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Romans 10:1Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. 2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. 5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.

Romans 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. 21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. 27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. 29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: 30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. 31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Romans 4:1What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? 2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. 3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. 4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Colossians 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. 21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled 22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: 23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

 

[ChristB4us]

@grace2

This is why discipleship is separate from salvation as you need to be saved with Jesus Christ in you for Him to enable you to run that race for the high prize of our calling to be that vessel unto honor in his House crowned by His crowning achievements in you by your faith in Him; not by you or it being on you in keeping the law. This is how many are called, hence saved believers, but only a few are heeding His words in trusting Him for all things for following him because He IS the Good Shepherd & not just the Saviour for all those that believe. We can only live this reconciled relationship with God through Jesus Christ; not through ourselves in keeping the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ.

 

[grace2]

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Romans 10:1Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. 2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. 5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.

Romans 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. 21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. 27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. 29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: 30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. 31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Romans 4:1What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? 2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. 3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. 4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Colossians 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. 21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled 22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: 23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

Nothing you say justifies the "your works cannot save you" doctrine.

You are still nullifying Jesus' word.

Jesus is the Lord.

 

[grace2]

@grace2

This is why discipleship is separate from salvation

You are not His disciple if you nullify Jesus' word and spread that your works cannot save you.

Prophesed believers have to observe all of Jesus' word.

 

[ChristB4us]

Nothing you say justifies the "your works cannot save you" doctrine.

You are still nullifying Jesus' word.

Jesus is the Lord.

I know Jesus is Lord but is Jesus Lord over you or is the "law" lord over you? Hopefully you will see the difference between living by faith in Jesus Christ as opposed to living by the law to obtain salvation by.

Can you explain what Jesus is saying below in how His disciples are guiltless for profaning the sabbath by picking ears of corn to eat on the sabbath?

Matthew 12:1At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn and to eat. 2 But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day. 3 But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him; 4 How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests? 5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless? 6 But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple. 7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless. 8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

Can you explain how & why Jesus refer to 2 incidents in the O.T. in how the saints had profaned the sabbath but were guiltless because they were in the Temple when they did it and then said One greater than the temple was here for why His disciples were guiltless?

 

[grace2]

I know Jesus is Lord but is Jesus Lord over you or is the "law" lord over you?

Jesus is giving the law and tells you to obey them.

 

[ChristB4us]

You are not His disciple if you nullify Jesus' word and spread that your works cannot save you.

Prophesed believers have to observe all of Jesus' word.

Well, I believe that because you believe in Jesus Christ & that God has raised Him from the dead, you are saved.

Whether or not saved believers are abiding in Him & His words as His disciples in running that race for the high prize of our calling to be that vessel unto honor in His House BY looking to Jesus Christ ( not by looking to ourselves in keeping the law, but by looking to Jesus Christ daily ) to help us lay aside every weight & sin to walk in the light in fellowship with the Father & the Son is how anyone can live this reconciled relationship with God and that is through faith in Jesus Christ.

However, somehow you seem to be stuck in regards to the law when the Jews strivings under the law did not avail them at all.

The New Covenant is God's turn now. Look at what God says He will do.

Hebrews 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. 7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. 8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: 9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: 11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. 13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

That is teh difference between the Old Coevanant with men as Jews doing the best they can and the New Covenant is God's turn in what He will do and all He asks from you in doing the works of God is to believe in Jesus Christ for all things; that you are saved as He is the Saviour and He is the Good Shepherd that will really help you to follow Him daily when you trust Him to do this.

I even need His help to remind me to trust Him to get me through the storms of my life and the fiery trails that seek to overcome me and I are say He is doing a good job in the keeping of my soul while I suffer this life by ca=easing from sin by His grace & by His help.

 

[ChristB4us]

Jesus is giving the law and tells you to obey them.

Jesus is saying "trust me now to do God's work in you and you will see yourself following Me as you will abide in my words by faith alone".

 

[grace2]

Jesus is saying "trust me now to do God's work in you and you will see yourself following Me as you will abide in my words by faith alone".

I remind you what Jesus says:

Keeping Jesus' commandments are requirement for salvation.

He are the verses to support my claim:
Matthew 22:36-40King James Version (KJV)

36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38 This is the first and great commandment.

39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

1. John 14:15
◦New King James Version
“If you love Me, keep My commandments.

2. John 14:21
◦New King James Version
He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.”

3. John 15:10
◦New King James Version
If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

4. 1 John 2:3
◦New King James Version
The Test of Knowing Him ] Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.

5. 1 John 2:4
◦New King James Version
He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

6. 1 John 3:22
◦New King James Version
And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight.

7. 1 John 3:24
◦New King James Version
The Spirit of Truth and the Spirit of Error ] Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

8. 1 John 5:2
◦New King James Version
By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments.

9. 1 John 5:3
◦New King James Version
For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

10. Revelation 12:17
◦New King James Version
And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

11. Revelation 14:12
◦New King James Version
Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.


And here is confirmation from Jesus of keeping Ten commandments as requirement.

Matthew 19:16-19
New International Version (NIV)
16 Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?” 17 “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”
18 “Which ones?” he inquired.
Jesus replied, “‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, 19 honor your father and mother,’[a] and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’

 

[ChristB4us]

I remind you what Jesus says:

Keeping Jesus' commandments are requirement for salvation.

He are the verses to support my claim:
Matthew 22:36-40King James Version (KJV)

36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38 This is the first and great commandment.

39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Okay, apparently this is a patented teaching of yours as I am seeing this again.

Nowhere did the Jew asking Jesus the question that this was about obtaining eternal life. The Jew was asking what is the greatest commandment in the law, Jesus answered the Jew in according to the law as under the Old Covenant.

The reference you should be using is the rich young man that had asked Jesus this question to have eternal life.

Matthew 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, 19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? 21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. 22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. 24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. 25 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved? 26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

That is Jesus refuting the ability of any man as a sinner in keeping the law to have eternal life.

Did you not read that the first time I had showed you this?

To be continued....

 

[grace2]

Okay, apparently this is a patented teaching of yours as I am seeing this again.

Nowhere did the Jew asking Jesus the question that this was about obtaining eternal life. The Jew was asking what is the greatest commandment in the law, Jesus answered the Jew in according to the law as under the Old Covenant.

The reference you should be using is the rich young man that had asked Jesus this question to have eternal life.

Matthew 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, 19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? 21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. 22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. 24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. 25 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved? 26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

That is Jesus refuting the ability of any man as a sinner in keeping the law to have eternal life.

Did you not read that the first time I had showed you this?

To be continued....

I am not going to sentence to sentence with you.

What I am saying is your doctrines are all count of context with Jesus' word.

Ok, since you don't believe striving to obey Jesus' commands is not necessary, Jesus says anything possible with God.

You say you cannot. Jesus says with God anything is possible.

Remember Jesus hates lukewarm followers.

 

[ChristB4us]

I remind you what Jesus says:

Keeping Jesus' commandments are requirement for salvation.

1. John 14:15
◦New King James Version
“If you love Me, keep My commandments.

2. John 14:21
◦New King James Version
He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.”

Now if you are applying John 14:15 as if Jesus is talking about all His commandments, you should read the next verse for that reward.

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

Now before you say.. Aha! If you have to keep all His commandments in order to get the promise of the Holy Ghost, how can that happen if you still have to keep all His commandments until you die, and thus never having received the Holy Ghost, let alone salvation?

So what commandments is Jesus talking about for how we get the promise of the forever indwelling Holy Ghost? So let us read from the beginning....and I will embolden that singular commandment that He keeps repeating over and over to get the promise of the Holy Ghost.

John 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. 2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. 4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know. 5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way? 6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. 7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. 8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us. 9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father? 10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. 11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake. 12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. 13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

Then you have Him citing His commandments to believe Him in plural below for the promise of the Holy Ghost.

15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

So believing Jesus Christ is the commandments necessary for salvation. Confirmation in the Book of Acts is by seeing the cause & effect.

Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. 44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. 45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, 47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

So before they even confessed Him with their mouths or had gone forward to be water baptized in His name, they heard the word that by believing in Him, they shall receive the remission of sins and viola, they got the Holy Ghost.

These are Gentiles believers and therefore I see no lengthy list of commandments for Gentiles to acknowledge and to do before they got the Holy Ghost when all it was that was presented to them was the gospel that by believing in Jesus Christ, they shall receive the remission of sins.

So only His commandments to believe in Him is the requirement for salvation

And so His other commandments are about abiding in Him as His disciples to bear fruit and to avoid being cut off as in left behind.

John 15:1I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. 2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. 3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. 4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. 8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.

9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. 10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. 11 These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.

So His commandments for discipleship with the reward and the consequence for not abiding in Him as His disciple is separate from His commandments for salvation, because those who do not abide in His commandments as His disciples shall be left behind ( excommunicated ) at the pre great tribulation rapture event when Jesus as the Bridegroom judges His House first, even though the left behind saints are still saved. Proof?

Note John 15:6 as those not found abiding in Him are "cast" into the fire as this fire is the one He sends on a third of the earth in Luke 12:49 after the rapture event and then compare the stripes that they shall receive for not being ready Luke 12:47-48 at this link; Luke 12:40-49 KJV and yet those who do not resist sin are the ones the Father will "scourge" as in whip them with stripes in Hebrews 12:1-10 KJV for them to be partakers of His holiness of those that get left behind as reprobates or disqualified at the pre great tribulation rapture event.

This is why salvation is separate from discipleship because you need to be saved first with Jesus Christ in you to be able to run that race. You cannot run that race to obtain salvation by doing works les you deny Him as your Saviour and wind up being denied by Him & left behind.

.

 

[grace2]

This is why salvation is separate from discipleship because you need to be saved first with Jesus Christ in you to be able to run that race. You cannot run that race to obtain salvation by doing works les you deny Him as your Saviour and wind up being denied by Him & left behind.

.

your semantics are so messed up.

You have to make a commitment to be His follower. This is the first step.

Just because you accepted Jesus as your Lord and Savior does not make you saved.

 

[ChristB4us]

4. 1 John 2:3
◦New King James Version
The Test of Knowing Him ] Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.

5. 1 John 2:4
◦New King James Version
He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

6. 1 John 3:22
◦New King James Version
And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight.

7. 1 John 3:24
◦New King James Version
The Spirit of Truth and the Spirit of Error ] Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

8. 1 John 5:2
◦New King James Version
By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments.

9. 1 John 5:3
◦New King James Version
For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

The apostle john is addressing believers that were under the false teaching that sin is no longer sin to them for why they were walking in darkness. He was not judging anyone as not a saved believer but as one that is not following Jesus as abiding in Him as they should for believers to be aware of and not follow after their bad example.

1 John 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. 4 And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full. 5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

1 John 2:1My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. 3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. 6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

That is what John was addressing was that false teaching that sin was no longer sin to believers as if they can walk in darkness and say they abide in Him when they are not.

 

[grace2]

That is what John was addressing was that false teaching that sin was no longer sin to believers as if they can walk in darkness and say they abide in Him when they are not.

Whether you abide in Him or not is Jesus' call, not anyone else.

Jesus does not approve of lip servers.

 

[ChristB4us]

your semantics are so messed up.

You have to make a commitment to be His follower. This is the first step.

Nope. Jesus set me free from that yoke of bondage to relying on him all the time for help in following him for why the just shall live by faith.

Matthew 5:33 Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths: 34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne: 35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King. 36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black. 37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.

Galatians 5:1Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.... 5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ: 7 Even as it is meet for me to think this of you all, because I have you in my heart; inasmuch as both in my bonds, and in the defence and confirmation of the gospel, ye all are partakers of my grace. 8 For God is my record, how greatly I long after you all in the bowels of Jesus Christ. 9 And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment; 10 That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ. 11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

Just because you accepted Jesus as your Lord and Savior does not make you saved.

Those unrepentant saints & former believers that get denied by Him and left behind for being in iniquity, Jesus will finish His work even in them, albeit, they will get stripes for the knowledge they had for not being ready by the Father so they may be partakers of His holiness.

2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.
18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

So who are the vessels unto dishonor? Those that did not depart from iniquity before the Bridegroom had come. They get denied by Him BUT He still abides, even in former believers for why there are vessels unto dishonor, vessels of wood & earth, that are still in His House testifying to the power of God in salvation, even for those who believe in his name.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

so not born by blood as being of the Jewish family, nor of the will of the flesh nor the will of man doing the law, but of God by believing in him, even in His name.

 

[ChristB4us]

Whether you abide in Him or not is Jesus' call, not anyone else.

Jesus does not approve of lip servers.

It all depends where your hope is at; on Jesus Christ as your Good Shepherd & Friend to help you abide & follow Him or keeping your commitment to keep all His commandments. You cannot do both for it is one way to follow Him or the other way that Jews fail by.

1 John 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure..... 8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

2 Timothy 4:18 And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Jude 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, 25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.