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THE ANGELS THAT SINNED

I'm sure you remember that the Holy Spirit descended in the form of a dove and remained upon Christ. Apparently even the Holy Spirit as a person of the Godhead can adopt a physical form at will. Why should it surprise you that it was also given to the creatures of the angelic realm to have a fully-functioning material form with the ability to reveal itself to mankind - or not?

Selective revelation of angels in tangible human form to some and not to others took place throughout scripture. Even Balaam's ass was able to see the angel with the drawn sword in his hand when Balaam originally could not. I would rather be an ass that is able to perceive this than even a prophet who cannot.
It says, "in the form of a dove," it didn't say it WAS a dove. The Spirit also was tongues of fire on the apostles on the Day of Pentecost. But nowhere in Scripture have I seen the Holy SPIRIT take on a material body.

Angels are spirits. Spirits don't have bodies neither do angels have creative attributes like God to create bodies.
The angels that seemed corporeal were servants of God and they are considered "good angels" whom God sent for various purposes.
I'd rather be a prophet that KNOWS the Word of God than an ass that can see angels of God.
 
If I told you hiding your identity was confusing to me why would you contradict me?
What? My comments are not worthy of being taken at face value?
Are you looking at something sinister in my approach?

I'm originally from California where we have beach, mountains, and desert within reach.
Today's El Paso weather is forecast up to 100 degrees heat. It hasn't gotten that hot yet, but if I begin sweating and hallucinating from heat stroke, I'll call 911.
Believe me, there is nothing sinister in my Christianity.
I never hid my identity.

You were the one who asked if I was male or female.

That is an odd question to ask in light to the fact that my User name is certainly feminine.
Had I signed on here using my seekingHiswisdom I could understand.

You have yet to make it understandably clear why it should matter.

Tell you what I shall send you my name my parents gave me when I was born in a message along with my email
That should clear up any confusion... and you know I wont be hiding from you.

And I never said there was anything sinister in your Christianity.

I am assuming that you have been on other forums, based on your age, and as such you certainly have
encountered that most posts about any single scripture come away with different interpretations because as Bill
Clinton said ... It all depends on what the meaning of is,is.

Yes, God is not the author of confusion... EXCEPT when man gets too puffed up... as in the Tower of Babel
telling when God confounded their languages to make certain they all were confused for at lease a while.

You have no consensus if it is YEC or OEC. You have no consensus as to what is even meant by In the beginning....
You have members... or will.. that do not believe in the biblical Trinity... and You have members who are adamant that Jesus
phrophetically came in 70AD and you have members who believe that Satan was bound... but let loose before that 70AD

It is all over the place and everyone can support their beliefs by what they can quote from the four corners of the Holy Bible.

Your posts are not sinister, and neither are mine.
 
It says, "in the form of a dove," it didn't say it WAS a dove. The Spirit also was tongues of fire on the apostles on the Day of Pentecost. But nowhere in Scripture have I seen the Holy SPIRIT take on a material body.

Angels are spirits. Spirits don't have bodies neither do angels have creative attributes like God to create bodies.
The angels that seemed corporeal were servants of God and they are considered "good angels" whom God sent for various purposes.
I'd rather be a prophet that KNOWS the Word of God than an ass that can see angels of God.
But they certainly can be in a body. To save my flingers and to avoid confusion here is a simplistic
explanation.. and after reading that ask yourself why not Fallen spirit angels

The Bible States That We Are All Spirits Living in Bodies​

Thus the Bible states that God (pleural) originally made Adam and Eve as spirits in Genesis 1:27.

But before that Jesus Christ was a Spirit. Therefore they must have made Adam and Eve as spirits in Genesis 1:27.
 
Angels are spirits. Spirits don't have bodies neither do angels have creative attributes like God to create bodies.
Your posts are reflective of part of the Sadducees' view of things. These were know for denying three different things: "For the Sadducees say that there is no resurrection, neither angel, nor spirit: but the Pharisees confess both." (Acts 23:8)

Why did Paul distinguish between the identity of what is spirit and what is angelic, if these were not distinctly different from each other?

I agree that angels do not have creative attributes like God to create anything ex nihilo, but that has no bearing on the question of what capabilities or characteristics the members of the angelic realm were given at their creation.
 
Sir, you have not taken what I posted and proved it wrong. Genesis 6 is strictly addressing the sons of God, the righteous line of believers taht we can follow in Genesis 5 for the first 6000 plus years (understanding the biblical timeline that God placed in Genesis 5, 10 to teach us how old this earth is~need help, read : https://www.mountainretreatorg.net/bible/timeline.shtml an excellent article. ) of creation.
I presented you with biblical verses that show the "sons of God" were angels.
Sir, In Job, and in the context used there, I would not reject that sons of God are angels. But, Genesis six is not angels in human flesh, committing sexual liaisons with women, producing a mongrel super race, which folks like you call the Nephilim.
What genetics allows normal humans mating with normal females can produce this super race?
I will add this, NO WHERE in the scriptures is the phrase "son(s)of God" even hinted as referring to angles other than Job and Daniel.
Is Job and Daniel not enough?
Since God secured the elect angels first estate and kept them from falling, then I would have no problem accepting them as sons of God in this sense. But not the repbrote angels. Sons of God is a special name given for God's chosen people~and since there are some elect angels, then they fall into the number that we read about in Job. Obviously, God appointed all of them to appear before him and give an account of what they were doing, good and evil angels, and Satan came also among them~ at least that is what we gather from Job. Not very much is given to us in the scriptures concerning this.

I have already addressed this above. But, while we are it~one question for you...."When were cast down to hell and placed into chains of darkness?
Apparently the angels that left their firs estate were placed into chains after the flood...or even during the flood. The bible isn't clear as to the exact timing. We do know it wasn't prior to or during the creation week.
 
Scripture, please.
15 When I, Daniel, had seen the vision, I sought to understand it. And behold, there stood before me one having the appearance of a man. 16 And I heard a man’s voice between the banks of the Ulai, and it called, “Gabriel, make this man understand the vision.”
 
I prefer to read the Scripture you posted in Ephesians and Paul says under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit that those forces ARE OF THIS WORLD and the only conclusion is they are from man, the ruler of this world.
The problem here is in this case you "prefer" to ignore what the scripture says and insert your own private interpretation.

The passage does not say those forces "ARE OF THIS WORLD" what it says is those NON flesh and blood rulers are "rulers of the DARKNESS of this world" .

Yes Paul wrote this under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit and you "prefer" to pervert its meaning into your own little doctrine.

This does not say what you claim it says.


Ephesians 6:12
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
 
Then you reject the Holy Spirit's words that the angels that sinned - and that includes ALL the angels that sinned - are locked up.
No, I reject your interpretation. That has been explained to you numerous times.
 
But they certainly can be in a body. To save my flingers and to avoid confusion here is a simplistic
explanation.. and after reading that ask yourself why not Fallen spirit angels

The Bible States That We Are All Spirits Living in Bodies​

Thus the Bible states that God (pleural) originally made Adam and Eve as spirits in Genesis 1:27.

But before that Jesus Christ was a Spirit. Therefore they must have made Adam and Eve as spirits in Genesis 1:27.
Hello Rella.
If I may...
I agree we have bodies but as far as the first man and woman I believe that Adam and the woman were created trichotomy of body, soul, and human spirit (not Holy Spirit), and further that in the Old Testament the translators of the KJV use two Hebrew words and use the English words or "soul" and "spirit" interchangeably, so when studying this it's a good idea to make distinction.
However, God also said that "in the day thou eatest of it thou shalt surely die."
Well, "in the day" they ate from it God's promise came true. Something died. It couldn't be his body for Adam lived it says for 930 years. It couldn't be his soul for the soul is comprised of mind (intellect), emotions, senses, conscience and will, and after the supper they still communicated with God however the communication did change. What's left was his human spirit which allowed him to communicate with God before the change since God is Spirit and those that worship/communicate with Him must do so in Spirit and truth. So, now Adam and the woman are a dichotomy of body and soul, no human spirit. The human spirit allows us as born-again Christians to process spiritual phenomenon and to communicate with God on a different level - the spiritual realm. However, when Adam and the woman began to have children the children and everyone born are born body and soul, no human spirit.

Three things lead me to this conclusion. First, what Paul said:

23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 1 Thess. 5:23.

It appears to me that if the human spirit died in Adam and people are indeed born with only body and soul, then at the moment of conversion God creates and new human spirit in the person for spiritual purposes. They are in effect restored to a trichotomy or the image of God who is three Persons of body, soul, and Spirit (Son, Father, Holy Spirit, respectively.)
And this passage as well:

24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
Eph. 4:24.

The word "created" in Genesis are two words, "bara" and "tohu." And since there are two words used in Genesis translated "create" or "created" and two meanings, one of God creating something out of nothing as in heaven and earth, and creating something out of something, such as the man and woman of whom Adam was created from the existing dust of the ground, and the woman created from the man's rib, and in conversion our bodies retain the sin nature and this affects our soul, the creating of a human spirit to enable us to process spiritual phenomenon this would be the only thing of our make-up that is holy, our bodies and souls are not.

Then there's what Jesus said:

28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Mt 10:28.

It is the person possessing body and soul only (unsaved) that are cast into hell. And from this I take that there are no three-fold persons of body, soul, and human spirit (born-again) in hell. That's my understanding. And it is reasonable.

But Scripture states the angels are created as spirits - no bodies.

7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
Heb. 1:6–7.
 
Your posts are reflective of part of the Sadducees' view of things. These were know for denying three different things: "For the Sadducees say that there is no resurrection, neither angel, nor spirit: but the Pharisees confess both." (Acts 23:8)
The Sadducees believed that angels did not exist.
I believe they exist but the angels that sinned were cast down to hell delivered in chains of darkness reserved for judgment. There are no angels that sinned running around loose on the earth. And the good/elect angels are with God except the one barring the way to the Tree of Life.
Why did Paul distinguish between the identity of what is spirit and what is angelic, if these were not distinctly different from each other?
Show me the Scripture in which Paul does this, please.
I agree that angels do not have creative attributes like God to create anything ex nihilo, but that has no bearing on the question of what capabilities or characteristics the members of the angelic realm were given at their creation.
The angels God created are obedient to God and none of them, fallen or otherwise, have free will to do as they please. They are ALL still obedient servants of God. God is Sovereign over His creation and if He were to have created angels OR man with free will to do as they please God would be prevented from interfering in their free will or God would be accused of sin and it be true. Angel and man have no free will. Free will is an illusion. We can choose chocolate or vanilla, but is there really a choice between two controversies if you take away the chocolate? Is it really a choice in that scenario? No, it is not. But then you'll say "well, we have the free will to choose or not choose vanilla."
To which I say, if you were bound in sin like man is and you are called a servant of vanilla because you love vanilla and that's all you love and whenever you see vanilla you reach out for it, even seek it out the way man is servant to sin and possesses a sin-nature so that all that he thinks of is evil continually there is no choice when sin is offered to him as there is no choice to make when vanilla is offered to the servant of the vanilla bean, you're going to crave, desire, seek out vanilla the way man craves, desires, and seeks out sin in this world because that's all he loves. Mention chocolate and he'll shrug and get violent and violently demand "Where's Vanilla!"

The angels are servants of God. They are obedient servants of God. They are created to do His will, not their own because they don't have a will. And whatever capabilities they have they are given at the time of their ministry with instruction to do this or that and they do not deviate from those instructions. Ever. God was wise to create angels and man without free will. God is Sovereign over ALL His creation. And whether or not you accept it we are ALL appointed by God to die, and not just to die, but to die at the appointed time decreed by God. There are no "untimely" deaths, just deaths.
 
15 When I, Daniel, had seen the vision, I sought to understand it. And behold, there stood before me one having the appearance of a man. 16 And I heard a man’s voice between the banks of the Ulai, and it called, “Gabriel, make this man understand the vision.”
The appearance of a man.
It doesn't say it was a man.
 
The problem here is in this case you "prefer" to ignore what the scripture says and insert your own private interpretation.

The passage does not say those forces "ARE OF THIS WORLD" what it says is those NON flesh and blood rulers are "rulers of the DARKNESS of this world" .

Yes Paul wrote this under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit and you "prefer" to pervert its meaning into your own little doctrine.

This does not say what you claim it says.


Ephesians 6:12
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Yes, we don't wrestle physically against people but the things they dream up in their evil little minds.
We wrestle against their authority OF THIS WORLD that is ungodly, antichrist, and anti-bible and not under instruction to go to war against them because God knows and has said, "Vengeance is MINE."
When Christ returns, He'll put His hands to the plow and physically kill and destroy His enemies, God's enemies, the Church's enemies and MY enemies. That's why His vesture is stained in blood.
THEIR blood.
 
No, I reject your interpretation. That has been explained to you numerous times.
I receive the Scripture and agree that the angels that sinned are locked up by God:

4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; 2 Pet. 2:3–4.

YOU don't.

So, we can see who believes God and who calls God a liar.

1 John 5:9-10.
 
I believe they exist but the angels that sinned were cast down to hell delivered in chains of darkness reserved for judgment. There are no angels that sinned running around loose on the earth.
I do agree with you that there are no fallen angels running around on this planet today. I will go a step further, and say that scripture teaches us that every unclean spirit is also gone from existence. And I will go even further than that and say that God has destroyed Satan by burning him to ashes on the earth long ago in the AD 70 era, as Ezekiel 28:18-19 predicted.

The entire evil angelic realm does not exist at all anymore. God destroyed it utterly, long ago. What is left are the human "children of the devil", in the sense that Christ called the religious leaders of His day when they uttered lies just like their "Father" the devil. Any wickedness prevailing on the planet at present is being performed due to the wicked impulses emerging from the human heart. Humanity needs no prompting from any demonic creature to do this.

Show me the Scripture in which Paul does this, please.
Acts 23:8, which I already quoted above in which Paul puts a distinction between angel and spirit.
God was wise to create angels and man without free will. God is Sovereign over ALL His creation
Free will and God's sovereignty are not mutually exclusive. I believe the option to choose was a test given to all creatures made by God, if only to illustrate for us just how dangerous a gift that is for ANY created being. Free will is treated like a sacred cow, when we should beg to be released from this perilous condition. In the eternal age to come, I believe this plague will be eradicated, and all the children of God will be subsumed totally into the will of the Father. Call it a divine "Borg" if you like, but anything operating with a will that can possibly oppose the will of God is begging for its own death.
 
The Sadducees believed that angels did not exist.
I believe they exist but the angels that sinned were cast down to hell delivered in chains of darkness reserved for judgment. There are no angels that sinned running around loose on the earth. And the good/elect angels are with God except the one barring the way to the Tree of Life.

Show me the Scripture in which Paul does this, please.

The angels God created are obedient to God and none of them, fallen or otherwise, have free will to do as they please. They are ALL still obedient servants of God. God is Sovereign over His creation and if He were to have created angels OR man with free will to do as they please God would be prevented from interfering in their free will or God would be accused of sin and it be true. Angel and man have no free will. Free will is an illusion. We can choose chocolate or vanilla, but is there really a choice between two controversies if you take away the chocolate? Is it really a choice in that scenario? No, it is not. But then you'll say "well, we have the free will to choose or not choose vanilla."
To which I say, if you were bound in sin like man is and you are called a servant of vanilla because you love vanilla and that's all you love and whenever you see vanilla you reach out for it, even seek it out the way man is servant to sin and possesses a sin-nature so that all that he thinks of is evil continually there is no choice when sin is offered to him as there is no choice to make when vanilla is offered to the servant of the vanilla bean, you're going to crave, desire, seek out vanilla the way man craves, desires, and seeks out sin in this world because that's all he loves. Mention chocolate and he'll shrug and get violent and violently demand "Where's Vanilla!"

The angels are servants of God. They are obedient servants of God. They are created to do His will, not their own because they don't have a will. And whatever capabilities they have they are given at the time of their ministry with instruction to do this or that and they do not deviate from those instructions. Ever. God was wise to create angels and man without free will. God is Sovereign over ALL His creation. And whether or not you accept it we are ALL appointed by God to die, and not just to die, but to die at the appointed time decreed by God. There are no "untimely" deaths, just deaths.
There is a real problem with that idea of no free will, it is in conflict with Gods Word, as how do you explain Adams sin? Did Adam do it from free will, or did God force Adam to sin? And Scripture clearly points it out..
Romans 5:12
12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
 
There is a real problem with that idea of no free will, it is in conflict with Gods Word, as how do you explain Adams sin? Did Adam do it from free will, or did God force Adam to sin? And Scripture clearly points it out..
Romans 5:12
12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
There is only ONE God.
There is NONE like Him.
He gives His glory (of which holiness and righteous are His glory) to NO ONE.
Several things: First, God created Adam and the woman sinful, that is, as the Greek word "harmatia" is defined as "missing the mark."
What is the "mark?" The glory of God. Or the glory that is God.
That's the only way God could create man. They were fallen short of the glory of God and that is also sin. We know that sin comes from sinner. Adam sinned. It was because he was a sinner created sinful.
Adam was not created 'holy' or 'righteous' for these are attributes of God and God does not share, copy, duplicate His glory to anyone.
Adam sinned because he was a sinner. The Law is in place to show all mankind that we are sinners. If there are people that spit on the ground (and there are) but there's no law against it then they are not lawbreakers if and when they spit. This was the explanation of Paul in Romans (as well as in the Old Testament), but this is what Paul said:

7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. Rom. 7:7.

If there was no law against coveting and Paul lusted for something he is not a lawbreaker. But since there is a law against coveting then such existence of this law shows Paul and everyone that lusting for something, or someone is sin. Many Christians understand this, but they ignore this one little fact. There was a law/command in the Garden of Eden:

17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. Gen. 2:17.

Taking what Paul said about coveting is applicable to Adam and the woman in the Garden. It would sound like this if Adam was doing the talking:

ADAM: "What shall we say then? Is the law/command sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law/command: for I had not known disobedience, except the law/command had said, Thou shalt not eat [of it.]"

And Paul goes on in Romans: (read carefully.)

8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful. Rom. 7:8–13.

Since there is only ONE God the idea that Adam was created 'holy' or 'righteous' falls short if he were to stand before God and that's what it was. There is only ONE Person that can stand before a Holy God and that is a Holy Son. IF Adam was created holy he would not sin, for one, and for two, Adam by necessity would have to possess ALL the Nature and Deific Attributes of God and be god in order to stand before the One True God on his own. But Adam was not holy, he was not righteous, he was not All-Wise, nor Omnipotent, nor Omnipresent, nor Omniscient. Thus, he was less, very less than God and this means he was fallen short of the glory of God and that means sin and sinful. Plus, the fact that he sinned shows that he was a sinner for sin does not come from holy. The last Adam proved this.

13 As saith the proverb of the ancients, Wickedness proceedeth from the wicked: 1 Sam. 24:13.

Who's to say this ancient proverb did not come from the Garden of Eden and developed when Adam passed on his story to his children?
We sin because we are sinner. We are not sinners because we sin.

Take a closer read on Romans 5:12-19 with these things in mind. In verse 12 Paul does not mention any sinful act. He merely says that by one man sin entered into the world. That one man was Adam who was created sinful/sinner/sin. The existence of a law shows us that we are lawbreakers of that law else there would be no law or command against it. But this is more than spitting on the ground. For before the Law sin was in the world. And that sin was Adam.

Paul adds:
13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
 
Hello Rella.
If I may...
I agree we have bodies but as far as the first man and woman I believe that Adam and the woman were created trichotomy of body, soul, and human spirit (not Holy Spirit), and further that in the Old Testament the translators of the KJV use two Hebrew words and use the English words or "soul" and "spirit" interchangeably, so when studying this it's a good idea to make distinction.
However, God also said that "in the day thou eatest of it thou shalt surely die."
Hello jer,

Yet again we disagree.

While it is very true God did say to Adam that in the day if Adam ate that fruit he would die. And it is true he did not, physically.

I understand this to mean that in the day... (paraphrasing) ... (if at some point)... or (whenever) that forbidden fruit is eaten that Adam, or Adam and Eve will die

Not in a physical, soulful or spiritual way but by total separation from God. Their closeness will cease...

The death promised and that Adam experienced the moment he chose to sin was not a ceasing to exist or a physical stopping to breathe, it was a separation: a rending apart of two things that were once closely joined. On the day that Adam ate the fruit, he died. He was separated from God. The fellowship between them was broken.

IOW He was dead to God....

Again... differing interpretations.
Well, "in the day" they ate from it God's promise came true. Something died. It couldn't be his body for Adam lived it says for 930 years. It couldn't be his soul for the soul is comprised of mind (intellect), emotions, senses, conscience and will, and after the supper they still communicated with God however the communication did change. What's left was his human spirit which allowed him to communicate with God before the change since God is Spirit and those that worship/communicate with Him must do so in Spirit and truth. So, now Adam and the woman are a dichotomy of body and soul, no human spirit. The human spirit allows us as born-again Christians to process spiritual phenomenon and to communicate with God on a different level - the spiritual realm. However, when Adam and the woman began to have children the children and everyone born are born body and soul, no human spirit.

Three things lead me to this conclusion. First, what Paul said:

23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 1 Thess. 5:23.

It appears to me that if the human spirit died in Adam and people are indeed born with only body and soul, then at the moment of conversion God creates and new human spirit in the person for spiritual purposes. They are in effect restored to a trichotomy or the image of God who is three Persons of body, soul, and Spirit (Son, Father, Holy Spirit, respectively.)
And this passage as well:

24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
Eph. 4:24.

The word "created" in Genesis are two words, "bara" and "tohu." And since there are two words used in Genesis translated "create" or "created" and two meanings, one of God creating something out of nothing as in heaven and earth, and creating something out of something, such as the man and woman of whom Adam was created from the existing dust of the ground, and the woman created from the man's rib, and in conversion our bodies retain the sin nature and this affects our soul, the creating of a human spirit to enable us to process spiritual phenomenon this would be the only thing of our make-up that is holy, our bodies and souls are not.

Then there's what Jesus said:

28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Mt 10:28.

It is the person possessing body and soul only (unsaved) that are cast into hell. And from this I take that there are no three-fold persons of body, soul, and human spirit (born-again) in hell. That's my understanding. And it is reasonable.

But Scripture states the angels are created as spirits - no bodies.

7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
Heb. 1:6–7.
 
Hello jer,

Yet again we disagree.

While it is very true God did say to Adam that in the day if Adam ate that fruit he would die. And it is true he did not, physically.

I understand this to mean that in the day... (paraphrasing) ... (if at some point)... or (whenever) that forbidden fruit is eaten that Adam, or Adam and Eve will die

Not in a physical, soulful or spiritual way but by total separation from God. Their closeness will cease...
The Scripture was written to be understood literally unless the context describes some spiritual lesson to be understood.
Thus, when God said, "In the day thou eatest of it thou shalt surely die" it is to be taken literally and at face value. He died "in the day" he ate of it. But he didn't die physically or soulfully. He died spiritually. His human spirit died. I suggest you re-read what I said earlier and consider the reasonable things I said and think this through. Adam's relationship with God was still effectual and active. All this about separation from God is rubbish. Don't listen to it because it is more than that. The relationship was intact, but it took a different path. It changed.
The death promised and that Adam experienced the moment he chose to sin was not a ceasing to exist or a physical stopping to breathe, it was a separation: a rending apart of two things that were once closely joined. On the day that Adam ate the fruit, he died. He was separated from God. The fellowship between them was broken.
IOW He was dead to God....
Again... differing interpretations.
Well, Rella, only the communication changed. He wasn't 'dead' to God for the communication continued even after Adam and the woman sinned.
 
The Scripture was written to be understood literally unless the context describes some spiritual lesson to be understood.

jer:

Really?

This specific scripture or all of them in Chapter 2?

For if it is all of them in chapter 2 and just not verse17 verse 24 should not even be there.

24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother and shall cleave to his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

What father and mother did Adam leave? And when was the wedding that joined them to be one, when she came from him to begin with.


Thus, when God said, "In the day thou eatest of it thou shalt surely die" it is to be taken literally and at face value. He died "in the day" he ate of it. But he didn't die physically or soulfully. He died spiritually. His human spirit died. I suggest you re-read what I said earlier and consider the reasonable things I said and think this through. Adam's relationship with God was still effectual and active. All this about separation from God is rubbish. Don't listen to it because it is more than that. The relationship was intact, but it took a different path. It changed.

Well, Rella, only the communication changed. He wasn't 'dead' to God for the communication continued even after Adam and the woman sinned.
 
jer:
Really?
This specific scripture or all of them in Chapter 2?
For if it is all of them in chapter 2 and just not verse17 verse 24 should not even be there.

24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother and shall cleave to his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

What father and mother did Adam leave? And when was the wedding that joined them to be one, when she came from him to begin with.
Very good. A thinker. I like that.
When Adam said that it is most reasonable to conclude he was told that by God and when Adam said it and Moses wrote it down under inspiration of the Holy Spirit this effectively made Adam a prophet. And a prophet does two things: He/she fore-tells, and he/she forth-tells.

You mean you missed the wedding? Didn't get the invite, I see.
Me neither.
But that prophecy is the beginning of many, many others to follow as God sends His prophets to His people Israel.
Becoming one is not the marriage ceremony but the sexual act. Two become one.
 
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