THE ANGELS THAT SINNED

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

The first part of Ezekiel 28, verses 1-10, is addressed to the human prince of Tyre. We know this was a human individual, because Ezekiel 28:2 tells him, "Thou art a MAN and not God." This man was going to die by the hand of other men in the manner of those who are slain in the midst of the seas (v. 8).

The second part of Ezekiel 28, verses 11-19, is addressed to the angelic prince of Tyre: "the anointed cherub that covereth". This formerly anointed cherub would die by God bringing a fire out of the midst of that creature, which would turn him to ashes on the earth in the sight of men. It would take God to slay this angelic creature so that he would no longer exist.

That's an artificial division that isn't needed to explain the chapter. The royal house of Tyre was situated in precisely the right place to act as the protector of the garden of Eden, preventing Adam et al from re-entering it.

 

[Keiw1]

Satan wasn't cast to the earth. He's been chained up since Genesis awaiting judgment. Or don't you believe the Holy Spirit?

4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; 2 Pe 2:3–4.

They're ALL locked up until judgment.
Do you believe the Holy Spirit who Authored the Scripture?

You must have missed Rev 12:9--this occurs in the last days-1914 to be exact according to Daniels prophecy.

 

[3 Resurrections]

Should we go through the rest of the Bible, we will find that this message is repeated a number of times. I believe it would be fair to say that the prophets agree that the temple and sacrifices were NOT ordained of God, while the priests are adamant that the temple is holy and necessary.

The physical temple was ordained for a time only, serving as a symbolic type of the True spiritual temple not made with hands. The millennium period was composed of this literal thousand years of a physical temple worship system, as patterned and decreed by God, the importance of which would be laid aside once Christ's sacrifice made Him the True foundation stone of the superior spiritual temple built of "living stones".

This is why the martyr Stephen could emphasize those verses about God not needing a physical temple to dwell in, because that literal thousand-year millennium period of physical temple worship had just ended with Christ's resurrection. The glories of the New Covenant conditions were superior to the glories of the Old Covenant.

I think it is a mistake to lump all the priests together as universally corrupt, since God specifically praised the Zadok family in Ezekiel for remaining faithful to him during the exile. The high priest Joshua was cleansed and made ready by God in the vision to serve in that post-exilic temple built by Zerubbabel's hands. That was a temple which God told the prophet "Go up to the mountain, and bring wood, and build the house; and I will take pleasure in it" (Haggai 1:8).

 

[3 Resurrections]

That's an artificial division that isn't needed to explain the chapter. The royal house of Tyre was situated in precisely the right place to act as the protector of the garden of Eden, preventing Adam et al from re-entering it.

How can it be "artificial" to divide Ezekiel 28 this way when Ezekiel says twice, "The word of the Lord came again unto me, saying..." followed in verse 11 by "Moreover, the word of the Lord came unto me, saying...? This was prophecy given in two sections, with two different subjects, with two different deaths to experience, and two different descriptions of those characters.

As far as the location of the garden of Eden goes, there was some tectonic plate shifting going on during the flood when "the fountains of the deep were broken up" and the Garden of Eden topography was changed substantially. No need to guard a location that was altered so drastically from its former state.

 

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

I think it is a mistake to lump all the priests together as universally corrupt, since God specifically praised the Zadok family in Ezekiel for remaining faithful to him during the exile. The high priest Joshua was cleansed and made ready by God in the vision to serve in that post-exilic temple built by Zerubbabel's hands. That was a temple which God told the prophet "Go up to the mountain, and bring wood, and build the house; and I will take pleasure in it" (Haggai 1:8).

Certainly there are individuals who don't fit that mold, but on the whole...

I think you will find that the Zadokites turned out to be the most corrupt of the priests. The word Sadducee is the Greek version of the word Zadokite.

And your hypothesis on shifting of tectonic plates in the flood is highly speculative. I'm not gonna go there.

 

[jeremiah1five]

You must have missed Rev 12:9--this occurs in the last days-1914 to be exact according to Daniels prophecy.

No, I didn't.
Inconsequential.
The Last Days began on the Day of Pentecost, Jesus hasn't come physically, and He'll only come once more.

 

[Keiw1]

No, I didn't.
Inconsequential.
The Last Days began on the Day of Pentecost, Jesus hasn't come physically, and He'll only come once more.

He received his crown( 1914)-Rev 6:2--its called the presence-Matt 24:37-Phil 2:12--2Pet 3:4---He returns to earth here-Rev 19:11, and 99% minimum will not like it. Its Armageddon. See there are many events that occur between Rev 6:2 and Rev 19:11

 

[3 Resurrections]

I think you will find that the Zadokites turned out to be the most corrupt of the priests. The word Sadducee is the Greek version of the word Zadokite.

Oh sure, I agree with that. In Christ's day that became most evident, especially the corruption exhibited by high priests of the family of Annas. But I'm speaking of the period of the post-exilic return, when the nation of Israel went through a revival at the time, according to Haggai and Ezra. It was then that God commended the Zadok family members for remaining faithful during the exile period and limited His high priesthood to only the descendants of Zadok.

Even though it was going to be eventually torn down to the last stone, God was certainly invested in seeing that the second temple was built under Zerubbabel's hands. As Haggai 2:9 (LXX) says, "The glory of this house shall be great, the latter more than the former, saith the Lord, and in this place will I give peace, saith the Lord Almighty, even peace of soul for a possession to every one that builds, to raise up this temple."

 

[Wordsmith]

Satan wasn't cast to the earth. He's been chained up since Genesis awaiting judgment. Or don't you believe the Holy Spirit?

This is nonsense.

Like 4:1 And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness,

Jesus led by the Spirit and full of the Holy Ghost not full of temptable attitudes!

2 Being forty days tempted of the devil. And in those days he did eat nothing: and when they were ended, he afterward hungered.

The unscriptural "attitude" substitution of satan , fallen angels and demons is no where found in scripture..

3 And the devil said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, command this stone that it be made bread.

No attitude spoke to Jesus nor did any figment of His imagination speak to Jesus.

4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

Jesus did not quote scripture to His bad attitude because Jesus didn't have a bad attitude.

5 And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.

The devil in this passage was not in chains that is a figment of your imagination and false doctrine.

6 And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.

No attitude spoke to Jesus nor did He imagine it. Neither did the Holy Ghost who inspired this passage of scripture get it wrong.

7 If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.

Jesus full of the Holy Ghost did not have a tempting (evil) attitude asking for worship in exchange for power.

8 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

Jesus was not speaking to his fallen attitude because He didn't have one.

9 And he brought him to Jerusalem, and set him on a pinnacle of the temple, and said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down from hence:

No attitude brought Jesus anywhere!

10 For it is written, He shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee:

11 And in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

No bad attitude quoted scripture to Jesus.

12 And Jesus answering said unto him, It is said, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

Jesus rebuked satan not a bad attitude!

13 And when the devil had ended all the temptation, he departed from him for a season.

Jesus was NOT tempted bay a bad attitude because He didn't have one.

This is the second time I have pointed this out to you and you still cling to this false doctrine and tell me I call God a liar because I do not agree with your false doctrine. Shameful!

Titus 3:10
A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;

 

[CrowCross]

The first part of Ezekiel 28, verses 1-10, is addressed to the human prince of Tyre. We know this was a human individual, because Ezekiel 28:2 tells him, "Thou art a MAN and not God." This man was going to die by the hand of other men in the manner of those who are slain in the midst of the seas (v. 8).

The second part of Ezekiel 28, verses 11-19, is addressed to the angelic prince of Tyre: "the anointed cherub that covereth". This formerly anointed cherub would die by God bringing a fire out of the midst of that creature, which would turn him to ashes on the earth in the sight of men. It would take God to slay this angelic creature so that he would no longer exist.

It is my belief that the prince of Tyre is a "type" of satan. The bible shows the parallel between Satan and Tyre. In doing so it presents a hint at what happened to Satan.

 

[CrowCross]

Satan wasn't cast to the earth. He's been chained up since Genesis awaiting judgment. Or don't you believe the Holy Spirit?

Do you have a web site for the denomination or sect that teaches that?

 

[jeremiah1five]

This is nonsense.

Like 4:1 And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness,

Jesus led by the Spirit and full of the Holy Ghost not full of temptable attitudes!

2 Being forty days tempted of the devil. And in those days he did eat nothing: and when they were ended, he afterward hungered.

The unscriptural "attitude" substitution of satan , fallen angels and demons is no where found in scripture..

3 And the devil said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, command this stone that it be made bread.

No attitude spoke to Jesus nor did any figment of His imagination speak to Jesus.

4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

Jesus did not quote scripture to His bad attitude because Jesus didn't have a bad attitude.

5 And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.

The devil in this passage was not in chains that is a figment of your imagination and false doctrine.

6 And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.

No attitude spoke to Jesus nor did He imagine it. Neither did the Holy Ghost who inspired this passage of scripture get it wrong.

7 If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.

Jesus full of the Holy Ghost did not have a tempting (evil) attitude asking for worship in exchange for power.

8 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

Jesus was not speaking to his fallen attitude because He didn't have one.

9 And he brought him to Jerusalem, and set him on a pinnacle of the temple, and said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down from hence:

No attitude brought Jesus anywhere!

10 For it is written, He shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee:

11 And in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

No bad attitude quoted scripture to Jesus.

12 And Jesus answering said unto him, It is said, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

Jesus rebuked satan not a bad attitude!

13 And when the devil had ended all the temptation, he departed from him for a season.

Jesus was NOT tempted bay a bad attitude because He didn't have one.

This is the second time I have pointed this out to you and you still cling to this false doctrine and tell me I call God a liar because I do not agree with your false doctrine. Shameful!

Titus 3:10
A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;

I already answered this.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Do you have a web site for the denomination or sect that teaches that?

No. I have the Scripture:

4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; 2 Pe 2:4.

 

[Wordsmith]

Jesus was fully man. That human nature of his Person needed to be tested.
He was speaking/thinking to Himself as He allowed the human nature full reign to be exercised before He began His Ministry to His people Israel.
Secondly, the word "devil" means "traducer" and "false accuser" and is an adjective. The Holy Spirit used this word to describe Jesus' human nature that was to be tested.
But the Logos answered every human thought He had about who He was and what He was there to accomplish.
Jesus had legs and feet. Why do you want to make this very human experience and supernaturalize it into something fantastical?
In the end the Logos exercised jurisdiction over His Person.

This is no answer it is more of the same. You have Jesus "speaking/ thinking to himself". Jesus tempting himself is nonsense. You have only avoided the points raised in Luke 4 , you have answered nothing.

 

[3 Resurrections]

It is my belief that the prince of Tyre is a "type" of satan. The bible shows the parallel between Satan and Tyre. In doing so it presents a hint at what happened to Satan.

Personally, I believe that this pairing of the human prince of Tyre with the anointed cherub prince of Tyre was just another example of the subject of the divine council at work in this world back then. God had originally set up supervisory righteous angels over the nations when He divided up the nations according to the number of the angels of God (Deuteronomy 32:8 LXX cp. Genesis 10:25). Some of those righteous angels succumbed to the temptation to be worshipped by humans, and thus became devils. Satan was one of those fallen angels. He was called "the prince of this world" because the original couple became servants to sin when they fell, thereby handing their God-given dominion over to Satan. The city of Tyre was Satan's especial target for his insidious work behind the scenes. The reason why Satan chose this particular city of Tyre for a center of his operations as the angelic "prince of Tyre" is the subject of another post.

I deliberately say Ezekiel 28 "WAS" an example of the subject of the divine council , (with some of those supervisory angels becoming corrupted) because Hebrews 2:5 puts a dividing line in history when that angelic divine council system would be totally disbanded. "For unto the angels hath he NOT put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak." The conditions in the world soon to come for the Hebrews readers was not going to be subjected any more to the righteous celestial angel's oversight over the affairs of the nations. Neither would the nations be subjected to the presence of any members of the Satanic realm that was going to be totally destroyed by AD 70.

That former divine council commission to the celestial angels back in Deuteronomy 32:8 was transferred over to the saints of God as His ambassadors in the nations of the world. WE as believers are essentially God's "divine council" with the great commission to "go ye into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature..." Christ has "inherited all nations" ever since His resurrection-day ascension, and He presently rules in the midst of His enemies.

 

[Wordsmith]

Quote from the video sums up what is going on on this thread with the Sethite view.

"This iis a contrived, invented view, to distance from the supernatural element of Genesis 6."

Dr, Michael Heiser

 

[jeremiah1five]

This is no answer it is more of the same. You have Jesus "speaking/ thinking to himself". Jesus tempting himself is nonsense. You have only avoided the points raised in Luke 4 , you have answered nothing.

IF all the angels that sinned are locked up and the word "devil" is an adjective think of something else to call it rather than a fallen angel that is locked up.
I accept the Word of the Holy Spirit that says all the angels that sinned are locked up.
Do you? No, you don't. So, there is some disconnect between you and God. Christians do not contradict God and expect Him to be pleased.
And He is not pleased with you and your attempts to change His Word.

 

[Wordsmith]

Scriptural and common sense debunking of the false Sethite view.

 

[Wordsmith]

IF all the angels that sinned are locked up and the word "devil" is an adjective think of something else to call it rather than a fallen angel that is locked up.
I accept the Word of the Holy Spirit that says all the angels that sinned are locked up.
Do you? No, you don't. So, there is some disconnect between you and God. Christians do not contradict God and expect Him to be pleased.
And He is not pleased with you and your attempts to change His Word.

Still no answers because you have none and divert from the topic by making judgments about me you are not qualified to make.

 

[CrowCross]

No. I have the Scripture:

4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; 2 Pe 2:4.

Is that speaking of all the fallen angels..or just the watchers?

Does it refer to the demons that are dead nephillim?